Young People See Farming Work As A Dead End: Thai Editorial

[Arkady]

My wife and I have a farm in Yasothon province, 15 rai of rice land, and 20 rai where we are growing bamboo shoots, mangoes, bananas, tomatoes, eggplants, papaya, and other fruits and vegetables. A few years back, whenever we required some help, we could get men and women who were eager to work almost any time. The past two years it has become harder, and often we cannot find even one person who want to work at all. The young people in the village have no interest in farming, they prefer to sit in front of the computer screen playing games mostly. There is a lot of work on construction projects, which apparently offer better pay too. If this continues, Thailand will also face food issues in the not distant future.

Personally, I feel very satisfied after a day of work with the earth. There is not big money in farming, but one can live without being dependent also.

This is an interesting post but I am curious that you write as if you are actively working in agriculture yourself. Do you have a work permit to work as a farmer? I thought it was one of the occupations reserved for Thai nationals in the Working of Aliens Act.

[OzMick]

Initial signs of farming advances are already in evidence in my area of Isaan, with an increase in the sale of mechanical seeders and harvesters.

I wonder though if Thailand should go down the path Australia has taken, whereby farms have become corporations able to lobby governments especially over environmental concerns. Over allocation of water entitlements has reduced the Murray/Darling river system to no more than a drain in dry years. The Japanese system seems to be the template Thailand should adopt, whereby the small land holder is protected, through subsidies and import control.

Rice is not grown in Murray Darling during dry years - when it is they use 50%less water than the world average (from the Aus Rice Grower's Web page).

Japanese rice growers as a role model - give me a break. Google "japanese rice art" and see what these pampered wanke_rs get up to.

[Yunla]

I think Yingluck's agriculture plan is for all kids to play Farmville on their free computer tablets instead.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Yunla

[folium]

I think Yingluck's agriculture plan is for all kids to play Farmville on their free computer tablets instead.

At least they would be learning some transferable skills.

[blazes]

Initial signs of farming advances are already in evidence in my area of Isaan, with an increase in the sale of mechanical seeders and harvesters.

I wonder though if Thailand should go down the path Australia has taken, whereby farms have become corporations able to lobby governments especially over environmental concerns. Over allocation of water entitlements has reduced the Murray/Darling river system to no more than a drain in dry years. The Japanese system seems to be the template Thailand should adopt, whereby the small land holder is protected, through subsidies and import control.

This Japanese model sounds like the small farming system in La France, which has pretty well bankrupted the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).

[richard10365]

It would be nice if whoever wrote this went up to Isaan and spent a couple of years working on a farm. Faces to the mud - backs to the sky. Wonder how long he'd last?

Not sure what you are trying to say. Did you read the story? Do you know what was said? What is your point?

[gand]

Farmers: 'you can pay me now, or pay me later, but you will pay me, or there will be famine.'

[Thai at Heart]

In the area of Isaan I visit nearly all the farmers are in their 50s with very few younger people opting to stay in the village. Most of them do menial jobs in the cities but not all. The village high school is doing a good job with minimal government support and sends quite a lot of graduates to university and they go on to become office workers and are unlikely to ever settle in the village again. Some of the younger people doing menial jobs in the cities can be coaxed back to replace their parents on the land when they become too old to work on the land but the replacement rate will clearly be less than one to one. So many families will sell their land and that is already an ongoing process.

Maintaining the system of small holdings was seen in the 60s as a vital defence against communism and the traditional concept of taxing the countryside (originally through forced corvee labour) had to be reversed to one of subsidy, so that the rural people are now net recipients of tax money. Urban and industrial development was rapid enough to make this possible as the cities were able to take over the tax paying burden from the countryside.

The bureaucracy and politicians still have the cold war mindset but the objective and methodology have shifted. Previously the concept was that small landholders have a stake to protect that makes them reluctant to pool all property and work on a collective farm owned by the state. Now the value of the small holdings is to keep the majority people poor and uneducated as far as possible, so they can be easily manipulated and this appears a prime objective of both sides of the political divide. It is now seen as vital to keep the quality of rural education as poor as possible and maintain a huge gap between quality of state education in the cities and the rural schools. As described above, the small percentage of poor rural people who become educated and move to the cities as full time office workers with salaries and pensions make their permanent homes in the cities and eventually sell their land. This process should be encouraged to allow the Thai economy to move to higher value added production but the Thai bureaucrats and politicians want nothing of that. The educational system is designed to turn out more graduates in useless disciplines like social sciences and the government budget for research and development is pitiful compared to countries like Korea and Taiwan that have successfully moved up the value added ladder.

Denying rural people decent education seems to be the last stand of the privileged classes, including the fat cat populist politicians. The Education Ministry budget is kept relatively low compared to more developed countries, while there is still massive expenditure on defence for a country that has not faced a credible security threat for over 30 years. The Education Ministry is also plagued with countless corruption scandals relating to procurement. Syllabuses and teacher training are out of date by about 50 years. Meanwhile the privileged still get to send their offspring to elite state funded schools in the cities by paying tea money which puts them beyond the reach of ordinary people as well as encouraging corruption by school administrators.

I find the use of export taxes to fund urban development very interesting in this whole discussion of what is the role of agriculture in Thailand.

Government policy

The government wanted to promote urban growth and one of the ways it accomplished this was by taxing the rice industry and using the money in big cities.^[5] In fact, during 1953, tax on rice accounted for 32 percent of government revenue. The government set a monopoly price on exports, which increased tax revenue and keep domestic prices low for Thailand. The overall effect was a type of income transfer from farmers to the government and to urban consumers (who purchased rice). These policies on rice were called the "rice premium," which was used until 1985 when the government finally gave into political pressure.^[5] The shift away from protecting the peasant rice farmers by the government moved the rice industry away from the egalitarian values that were enjoyed by farmers to more of a modern-day, commercial, profit-maximizing industry

[gand]

When the red shirts get their way, every Thai will be a farmer and it will be the cities that are empty.

[GuyL]

Rural poverty (along with a very poor education in rural areas) is one of the reasons why prostitution is still alive and kicking in the Land of (vertical) Smiles. If farming was a more profitable occupation, you would not find so many farmers' daughters (and sons) in the local sex trade.

[ginjag]

Arkady, Just asking you why you asked if Bhakta had a work permit ??? he may enjoy his time on the land, while his wife and family do the WORK. Nothing to stop him growing his own stuff to feed his own family and keep him active, let the man have his interest and love of the land. We in England would call you -nosey-in asking. No offence to you personally as quite a few ask things like this. Is it Jealousy ???-envy ???. Better than sitting at bars supping and <deleted>.

[gemini81]

Rural poverty (along with a very poor education in rural areas) is one of the reasons why prostitution is still alive and kicking in the Land of (vertical) Smiles. If farming was a more profitable occupation, you would not find so many farmers' daughters (and sons) in the local sex trade.

Farmers: 'you can pay me now, or pay me later, but you will pay me, or there will be famine.'

They lack the vision and ambition to get together with unity and take such a stand. Agricultural companies are bound to grow here and take over much of the land and farming in the future (and if Thailand is to move forward)...though not during the current administration!

[Arkady]

I find the use of export taxes to fund urban development very interesting in this whole discussion of what is the role of agriculture in Thailand.

Government policy

The government wanted to promote urban growth and one of the ways it accomplished this was by taxing the rice industry and using the money in big cities.^[5] In fact, during 1953, tax on rice accounted for 32 percent of government revenue. The government set a monopoly price on exports, which increased tax revenue and keep domestic prices low for Thailand. The overall effect was a type of income transfer from farmers to the government and to urban consumers (who purchased rice). These policies on rice were called the "rice premium," which was used until 1985 when the government finally gave into political pressure.^[5] The shift away from protecting the peasant rice farmers by the government moved the rice industry away from the egalitarian values that were enjoyed by farmers to more of a modern-day, commercial, profit-maximizing industry

Yes, it is very interesting. Now that they have gone full circle the cost of the rice mortgage scheme is going to be astronomical and will make a big hole in the government's finances that they will try to disguise through various means. Unfortunately this is not a very effective transfer of wealth for city tax payers to farmers, since there is so much corruption involved and the scheme is administered unfairly. Farmers are often squeezed out of the rice mortgage scheme while middlemen benefit and rice smuggled from Cambodia or Laos gets mortgaged to the government, not to mention disappearances of rice stocks. Government goes massively into debt to fund a scheme that benefits farmers much less than it should and benefits others hugely. Meanwhile almost nothing is invested in R&D to provide the farmers with higher yield strains of rice or help improve their agricultural efficiency. Organic fertilisers and pesticides are banned because the petrochemicals industry is a very powerful lobby group that is largely state enterprise. Farmers have no incentive to try by themselves to improve quality of rice because it is all sold to the government. City people have to deal with higher inflation caused by an artificially inflated rice price.

The intention seems to be to make farmers more dependent on government subsidies and handouts, while keeping their yields and productivity as low as possible. Helping them become self sufficient would reduce their dependence on government and make them less docile. A direct result of this type of policy is that Thailand has been overtaken in quality and volumes of exports by poorer Asian countries. Unfortunately this feudal approach will lead to economic and social disaster.

[bigbamboo]

It's tough on farmers, especially those who don't own their own land. They could try getting a degree. Fortunately in Thailand you don't have to be all that smart and that will mean 15k a month guaranteed OK, 15k sometime, maybe, in the future.

And if all else fails then there's always the Police. Now you never see a poor policeman.

[Arkady]

Arkady, Just asking you why you asked if Bhakta had a work permit ??? he may enjoy his time on the land, while his wife and family do the WORK. Nothing to stop him growing his own stuff to feed his own family and keep him active, let the man have his interest and love of the land. We in England would call you -nosey-in asking. No offence to you personally as quite a few ask things like this. Is it Jealousy ???-envy ???. Better than sitting at bars supping and <deleted>.

Well, in case you didn't guess it was rather tongue in cheek. I liked Bhakta's post and find his commentary from such a viewpoint is helpful. Yes, perhaps he does just sit on the veranda with a glass of Song Saem in his hand watching his wife and children toiling away under the hot sun or works a tiny vegetable patch in front of the house that could be defended as a hobby, if Immigration police showed up. No I am not jealous of his land. My family has larger holdings of agricultural land that I have financed. Perhaps I am a touch envious of his ability to fall in with the bucolic rhythms and feel at peace with the land and nature.

Every now and then some political grand stander tries to score cheap points by talking about land grabs by foreigners, including those that buy through their Thai wives, who force the original owners to work as cheap labour on their land. Personally I find this far fetched. Land purchases financed by people like Bhakta and myself will remain in the hands of families who come from those rural areas. On the other hand most of the agricultural land is actually being sold off to Thai Chinese from the cities who squeeze tenant farmers as hard as they can while waiting for a good offer that will come in time from an agricultural conglomerate.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Arkady

[metisdead]

Posts of an off topic nature have been removed.

[Arkady]

It's tough on farmers, especially those who don't own their own land. They could try getting a degree. Fortunately in Thailand you don't have to be all that smart and that will mean 15k a month guaranteed OK, 15k sometime, maybe, in the future.

And if all else fails then there's always the Police. Now you never see a poor policeman.

The only poor policemen may be those working in the many inactive posts. But, if they are energetic, they at least have time to do a second job. They are well qualified to apply for positions as extortionists, drug dealers, security men, repo agents, hit men etc.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Arkady

[folium]

It's tough on farmers, especially those who don't own their own land. They could try getting a degree. Fortunately in Thailand you don't have to be all that smart and that will mean 15k a month guaranteed OK, 15k sometime, maybe, in the future.

And if all else fails then there's always the Police. Now you never see a poor policeman.

The only poor policemen are those stuck in inactive posts. But they at least have time to do a second job. They are well qualified to apply for positions as extortionists, drug dealers, security men, repo agents etc.

Isn't that what most cops do, in active or inactive posts?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is an interesting post but I am curious that you write as if you are actively working in agriculture yourself. Do you have a work permit to work as a farmer? I thought it was one of the occupations reserved for Thai nationals in the Working of Aliens Act.

Why on earth do you care? I really don't understand the obsession about obeying every most idiotic picayune "law" around here.

If every law in this country were enforced every single person would be in jail. The purpose of the laws is so those in power can control those under them, and having a confusing and irrational system simply allows them to punish arbitrarily according to their whims.

[ginjag]

Arkady, Your reply was a little lengthy and not really answering the point I made, You said-" do you have a work permit" weather he has or not why put in print ???? No one cares a hoot how much land you have, tongue in cheek or not it was NOT cricket to ask on TV whether Bhakta had a permit. This was more than nosey, If you only think it it would be in bad taste. sweet mouthing your way out of it was poor, better not reply at all. Sorry again Mr. nosey. We expats have enough problems here, without anyone bringing the attention of Thai authorities,(we do not know who reads here)

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

Young people in Thailand see EVERYTHING as a dead end except for their cell phones and Face Book pages...Sad state of affairs here...

[rodentwarrior]

One of the marvelous things about Thailand is that the rural poor have tended to stay on the land in large numbers avoiding Bangkok becoming like Bombay, Kolkata, Mexico City or Caracas with the attendant intractable slum problem.

Sorry you obviously don't live in Bangkok - the place is full of slums! Look around!

[harryfrompattaya]

My wife and I have a farm in Yasothon province, 15 rai of rice land, and 20 rai where we are growing bamboo shoots, mangoes, bananas, tomatoes, eggplants, papaya, and other fruits and vegetables. A few years back, whenever we required some help, we could get men and women who were eager to work almost any time. The past two years it has become harder, and often we cannot find even one person who want to work at all. The young people in the village have no interest in farming, they prefer to sit in front of the computer screen playing games mostly. There is a lot of work on construction projects, which apparently offer better pay too. If this continues, Thailand will also face food issues in the not distant future.

Personally, I feel very satisfied after a day of work with the earth. There is not big money in farming, but one can live without being dependent also.

It is sad you have trouble thinking maybe the hot sun.

What per cent of people farm in US to produce food only to feed its domestic needs? Very little

[harryfrompattaya]

Arkady, Your reply was a little lengthy and not really answering the point I made, You said-" do you have a work permit" weather he has or not why put in print ???? No one cares a hoot how much land you have, tongue in cheek or not it was NOT cricket to ask on TV whether Bhakta had a permit. This was more than nosey, If you only think it it would be in bad taste. sweet mouthing your way out of it was poor, better not reply at all. Sorry again Mr. nosey. We expats have enough problems here, without anyone bringing the attention of Thai authorities,(we do not know who reads here)

If he does not have work permit no problem he just pees in the fields will be his defense.

[waza]

Farmers are not to be blamed for wanting to leave their land in increasing numbers. Many have been adversely affected by the ongoing fluctuations in commodity prices. Apart from the unpredictable forces of nature, human interference has unfortunately played a key part in destabilising commodity prices.

Much of the problem has been caused by the government's policies. Farm prices should have been liberalised so they reflect actual demand in the market. The prices of produce should naturally continue to rise in line with greater demand resulting from population growth. However, governments - Thailand's included - seemingly cannot resist interfering with natural price adjustments through market-distorting policies or quota-control systems, as is evident in the case of sugar. In addition, inconsistent and unpredictable subsidy policies have encouraged some farmers to shift to new commodities, only to find that they are contributing to an oversupply. We've seen this recently in the case of shallots

Good to another inspired PTP Government policy is bearing fruit...

[Leung Falang]

Thirty rai might be worth Baht 9,000,000 with a standard family of 4 working it might produce Baht 100,000 per year. But remember, this is for about 3 months of hard work over a 6 month growing season for most farmers. Nine months a year is vacation for many, although some younger husbands will work local construction or even go to the larger city in the off season.

Another issue in villages is rampant heavy drinking and gambling. Young people cannot wait to get out of this environment which is in addition to a low standard of living.

[blazes]

Young people in Thailand see EVERYTHING as a dead end except for their cell phones and Face Book pages...Sad state of affairs here...

Ditto virtually every other country in the world. No, strike out "virtually".

[tingtong]

two problems to fix and farming should be fairly decent:

- price controll

- middle man

as for some comments, it is for a while not that back breaking for farming, lots of tractors, harvesters.

see, the cycle of rice as i see it:

call the tractor guy, plowing done spray the weed throw the seeds ( save on workforce) to the field...wait...wait, fertilise, spray weed, wait more, call the harvester, sell rice, reset...

plowing and harvesting isnt any more the hard work, tractor and harvester relative cheap to hire.

in EU or US you wont make a living from a few acres or hectares of wheat neither, you need 100s....but you might make lot more on less land, if you plant something else. sure, picking mango is more work than 10 days a season work with rice...but you wont need 100s of acres mango to make some money.

feeding the fish in the pond is not backbreaking, but sure more regular work -everyday- than rice, but returns are fair.

what not fair is the greedy middlemen, and that while wages rise, and imput costs rise, the price of farm produce controlled in most case, and not let it flow as it should.

of course none can seriously keep a family from their 5 rai rice, that is no question, not if middlemen is correct (in a fairy tale maybe), not if price is free.

but 5 rai is enough for a few fish ponds or some building to raise pigs, etc, it doesnt have to be always rice, does it?

[cdnski12]

I grew up on a large farm in Canada; but never really liked farming. The work was just too hard. Only 1 of my 4 siblings remained farming. He is 71, still working 16 hour days @ 3 jobs ... just to feed 60 beef cows. I retired 4 years ago, spend 2-4 months per year golfing in Thailand. Farming ain't the life for me!

[pigeonjake]

im sorry if what im going to say will upset some, i dont think im as clever as some of the posters on here, but ive lived in the thai village for over 7 years now, and what i see is the lazyness of the thai man, the women folk work like hell planting there veg and chillies while the men sit in there hamocks drinking lou kow and smoking there cigs

and please belive me this is how must famalies are, my wife says to me what can i do, she cant do anything, thasts the way it is, my wifes mum works all day doing the veg and things, while her father sits there waiting for the rice to grow, yes at rice time they might do a month or 2 work, weve got pigs, and i have mum helping my wife looking after them and we pay her a wage, most of the time when im away my wife and her mum take care of everything, im in scotland at the moment working,

this is just my opinion, so im sorry if it ofends anyone,, not ment to,

take care jake