Diarrhoea

[tropo]

Tropo doesn't suffer from IBS, he had a parasitic gut infection. He took the medicine and got better I guess.

It doesn't really matter. People drink kefir for many reasons, not just people who suffer from IBS. There's internet forums full of real people who have solved IBS by drinking kefir. The fact that there's no commercial interest in kefir makes people's testimonials all the more believable.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Sheryl
incivility and over-agressive attemopts to persuade

[poanoi]

_{I haven't tried kefir. It sounds interesting, but currently my gut problems are at end, as I modified my diet. I'm expecting a bit of trouble next week when I restart gym and football, that will be IBS proper, had it ever since I was a teenager.}

_{I've had the sour milk and it is the real thing I think, and there is a good organic yoghurt in Tops, as well as a form of Saurkraut in Lotus, but I don't set great store by probiotics for me personally, always tolerated antibiotics really well. As soon as any problem food is eliminated my stomach is in balance}

_{If anyone can tell me how I might avoid problems when drinking alcohol that would be of great help, as I tend to get very peptic quite quickly, and I feel a bit off the next day. Even just drinking half a bottle of wine can set it off, although generally it takes a bottle.}

_{I'm not interested in great health really, as for me that means avoiding all the great things like alcohol, and coffee,so I'll put up with some gut problems instead. Giving up smoking was enough of a wrench and I miss it dearly.}

Well my diarrhea was a direct result of enormous quantities of beer,

and sometimes i just couldnt carry on without first heal up with Norfloxacin.

I can also confirm that there aint a white man north of the equator that had so much diarrhea as me. The only thing that truly worked like a bliss was Norfloxacin.

My memories are a bit vague from that lovely time but IIRC i could drink ~5 days before i needed a doze of Norfloxacin + a day break

Edited June 8, 2012 by poanoi

[Sojourner17]

See if you can find a good probiotic like Bioflor. You likely need to restore the balance of gut flora.

[tropo]

See if you can find a good probiotic like Bioflor. You likely need to restore the balance of gut flora.

That's what we've been discussing for about half the thread. Tell us all about Bioflor. What is it? Why is it good?

[mommysboy]

See if you can find a good probiotic like Bioflor. You likely need to restore the balance of gut flora.

That's what we've been discussing for about half the thread. Tell us all about Bioflor. What is it? Why is it good?

You can also get probiotics from half the chemists in Bangkok, they are mainly lacto bacilli.

But are they really any good, didn't do a jot for me. I don't believe antibiotics are that damaging to gut flora unless taken in excess over many months.

In fact the opposite might be true, perhaps anti-biotics do better as reported by another poster.

When there is a lot of undigested sugar, just about everything has a party, so called bad and good bacteria, it makes no sense to introduce yet more bacteria, ie, undigested lactose + lacto bacilli = a fermentation factory in the guts, not so good. Perhaps this is too simple. If anyone in the know could comment would be grateful.

I think a better angle with food intolerance would be taking enzyme supplements.

I tried to get lactase pills in Bangkok, no joy, anyone know?

[tropo]

When there is a lot of undigested sugar, just about everything has a party, so called bad and good bacteria, it makes no sense to introduce yet more bacteria, ie, undigested lactose + lacto bacilli = a fermentation factory in the guts, not so good. Perhaps this is too simple. If anyone in the know could comment would be grateful.

I think a better angle with food intolerance would be taking enzyme supplements.

I tried to get lactase pills in Bangkok, no joy, anyone know?

On the contrary, it makes perfectly good sense to "dump" good bacteria amongst a colony of bad guys. You can culture kefir at room temperature (30C plus in Thailand) and it never changes. You end up with a perfect batch every time. No refrigeration required. You can "brew" it at room temperature for 2 days if you like and then sit it on the bench to secondary ferment for another couple of days and there won't be a single bad guy in there. Humans consumed kefir for thousands of years, long before the refrigerator was invented.

They've done experiments and dumped harmful E-Coli into batches of kefir - result - in 24 hours not an E-Coli to be found.

You could quite literally dump dog shit into a batch and drink it later on.

So... if it's so good why don't you know about it? No one sells it, that's why. No expensive scientific studies, no marketing - it's free for life for the cost of the milk you use to make it.

When I eat something bad (not often these days), the first thing I do is "dump" a big glass of these friendly guys. Takes care of all the nasties pretty quickly. Oh, yeah, and another thing - you'll find your stool doesn't stink quite so much when you regularly "dump" these guys. It saves on room freshener sprays.

As I said, the science is too complicated and there's no financial interest in spending big money on studies. I just accept it as a miracle of nature. I don't have decades to wait until the science catches up with reality. Unfortunately this may never happen because vested interests (eg drug companies) are placed well ahead of your health. It's all business.

[JimmyTheMook]

I drank some Kefir yogurt (there is a local Russian company making it here in Pattaya) and it really helped settle my stomach.

Will try it a few more times to be sure .

[tropo]

She doesn't know the pronunciation. It's not "K-fear", it's "kef-fear" (with a hard rolling 'r') - a Russian pronunciation. The Russians were responsible for bringing it out of hiding in the Caucasus region. It was a well guarded secret there up until the end of the 19th century.

It is interesting that in the Turkish language "kefir" means "feel good".

[endure]

According to Wiki kefir in Turksih means 'foam' "The term kefir' is of Turkish origin, from köpür → köpük (foam)"

How do you make it then?

[tropo]

According to Wiki kefir in Turksih means 'foam' "The term kefir' is of Turkish origin, from köpür → köpük (foam)"

How do you make it then?

I've run the word by some Turkish people and they agree that kefir means "feel good" or "good feeling". Of course you'd have to find the correct spelling for kefir in Turkish.

Regarding how you make it:

This should help. This is directly from Dom's kefir website, the most comprehensive on kefir currently on the web.

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#what-is-kefir

"A batch of kefir grains consist of many individual white to bone-coloured mostly self-enclosed bodies made up of a soft, gelatinous biological mass somewhat resembling cooked cauliflower rosettes. The complexity of the kefir grain is a mixture of protein, amino acids, lipids [fats] and soluble-polysaccharides. Kefiran a unique polysaccharide with many health-promoting virtues, is the major polysaccharide of kefir grains and is also found in kefir. The bacteria and yeasts not only create the bio-matrix structure, or the grains, the organisms are also harboured by the very structure that they create; abiding on the surface, and encapsulated within the grain itself.

Traditional kefir [real authentic kefir] is easily prepared at home, just as it has been for many centuries by the ancients of the Caucasus Mountains. Fresh, non-pasteurised or pasteurised full-cream, low fat or non-fat milk is put in a clean suitable container with the addition of a smaller portion of kefir grains. The content is left at room temperature for about 24 hours. The resulting developed cultured-milk is strained in order to separate, and retrieve the kefir grains from the liquid-kefir. The grains are added to more fresh milk to repeat the simple process for the next batch. This procedure can be performed on an indefinite basis... for kefir grains last forever."

Edited June 10, 2012 by tropo

[endure]

According to Wiki kefir in Turksih means 'foam' "The term kefir' is of Turkish origin, from köpür → köpük (foam)"

How do you make it then?

I've run the word by some Turkish people and they agree that kefir means "feel good" or "good feeling". Of course you'd have to find the correct spelling for kefir in Turkish.

There's a picture on the wiki which actually does look like a lump of foam. I'll go and have a look at the website you suggest. Cheers.

[endure]

According to Wiki kefir in Turksih means 'foam' "The term kefir' is of Turkish origin, from köpür → köpük (foam)"

How do you make it then?

I've run the word by some Turkish people and they agree that kefir means "feel good" or "good feeling". Of course you'd have to find the correct spelling for kefir in Turkish.

Regarding how you make it:

This should help. This is directly from Dom's kefir website, the most comprehensive on kefir currently on the web.

Is kefir diabetic friendly?

[tropo]

Is kefir diabetic friendly?

Yes, the kefir grains feed on lactose (milk protein) and "digest" it all. It's a very sour drink which has zero carbs and all the milk protein. Extremely good for diabetics.

[endure]

Is kefir diabetic friendly?

Yes, the kefir grains feed on lactose (milk protein) and "digest" it all. It's a very sour drink which has zero carbs and all the milk protein. Extremely good for diabetics.

Good stuff!

[poanoi]

No one sells it, that's why.

So where can i buy it if no one is selling it ?

I'm interested and want to buy a liter or two, but where ?

[tropo]

I was referring to the fact that no one sells the grains. They are normally handed around amongst friends.

There is some prepared kefir at some of the supermarkets around Pattaya but there's a lot of Russians here (who like kefir) so I'm not sure if you'd be able to get any in your area if you're not in Pattaya.

Check out Dom's site linked in a post above. He does distribute kefir world wide in dried form.

[thommo46]

Back in 2004 my thai G/F at the time had chronic case of the Jimmy Brits and she went to the 7/11 and bought a can of Pepsi and some salt.She poured have the pepsi into a glass and half a teaspoon of salt into glass , stir it up and erupted like volcano , down the hatch.It stopped the sh$ts . Since then I have tried it on several times and it has worked on me and other people in Thailand and home in Australia. Mabye the sodium in the salt and the Pepsi acts as a scourer. Where I worked in the Womens hospital the doctor gave the patient a dose of sodium citrate before going in for a C section just in case she has to put under if any complication. The sodium citrate settled the stomach .

[glenmohr]

Its a problem we have all had .

Best advice is to visit a doctor who is experienced with foreigners.

Years ago while toughing it out in Laos , I was persuaded to undergo tests to discover I had amoebic dysentry. That needs powerful treatment.

In the meantime , if anywhere near Villa 33 in BKK, get a packet of Cayenne powder and drink a teaspoon in warm water. No recorded side effects and it gives a very good clean out of the system.

Secondly , manuka high grade honey can have a very beneficial effect as it is an antibiotic without going to drug based medicines.

Best of luck , but remember we have all been there .!!

I personally wonder if insect bites are also a cause that the locals have immunity to . Whatever , it seems most of us build up an immunity after a while .

[poanoi]

I live in Pattaya so where do i get it ?

my gf will want it too, even more

[mommysboy]

It is claimed on the main Kefir website that it contains enzymes, this would be the key to any success I think. Most food intolerances are caused by lack of enzymes in the food, or insufficient enzymes in the body.

Personally, I am having increased success merely by replicating the diet I have in the UK, which means far more bland food, lots of spuds and bread and grains, fruit such as apples and much less refined foof in general.

Probiotics can't do any harm though, and food like kefir, bio yoghurt, pickle cabbage, and Kimchi(ee) all have there place once or twice a week. I think probiotics in capsule form are far more likely to be produce success though as the bacilli have much more chance of survival passing through the upper stomach.

[JimmyTheMook]

I live in Pattaya so where do i get it ?

my gf will want it too, even more

Soi wat Bun

Cafe Milk River

this is in the Majestic Condo Complex

Svetlana&Alesya Co. Ltd

52/578 Moo12, Nongprue,

Banglamung, Chonburi 20260

[mommysboy]

Back in 2004 my thai G/F at the time had chronic case of the Jimmy Brits and she went to the 7/11 and bought a can of Pepsi and some salt.She poured have the pepsi into a glass and half a teaspoon of salt into glass , stir it up and erupted like volcano , down the hatch.It stopped the sh$ts . Since then I have tried it on several times and it has worked on me and other people in Thailand and home in Australia. Mabye the sodium in the salt and the Pepsi acts as a scourer. Where I worked in the Womens hospital the doctor gave the patient a dose of sodium citrate before going in for a C section just in case she has to put under if any complication. The sodium citrate settled the stomach .

Certainly sodium bicarbonate was also excellent for me, but I was warned off because of the high sodium content, not good for the cardiovascular system I was advised.

The pepsi and salt would give rehydration, a poor man's ORS if you like.

Pepsi and coke can offer great relief from heartburn/indigestion.

A good posting. Thanks for the tip.

[tropo]

I think probiotics in capsule form are far more likely to be produce success though as the bacilli have much more chance of survival passing through the upper stomach.

Kefir doesn't get destroyed in the upper digestive tract any more than harmful bacteria do - they all make it through. Kefir is already acidic - why would acid destroy it? It is doubtful that the stomach acids would even be released in response to a glass of kefir - this is why it is always recommended to drink it on an empty stomach i.e. to give it free passage through to where it is needed.

A few grams of whatever in a capsule are just not enough to influence a colony which consists of about 100 trillion members. You need to get healthy bacteria into your gut in large numbers to be of any use. A beginner needs more than a mouthful once or twice a week. 250 - 500 ml per day is what you need.

Here's some numbers to illustrate the difference between your capsules and kefir:

From here: http://www.squidoo.com/kefirgrains

"Numbers do not lie:

* One capsule of man-made probiotics normally contains about 15 billion bacteria.

* One small bowl of fresh yogurt (500 ml), contains about 1.5 trillion beneficial organisms. - 100 times more than a 15 billion capsule.

* And one small bowl of fresh kefir (500 ml), contains as many as

5 trillion beneficial organisms. Almost 400 times more than a capsule"

Anyway, you can persevere with expensive capsules. I'll go for the real thing and save money while I'm at it.

[mommysboy]

I think probiotics in capsule form are far more likely to be produce success though as the bacilli have much more chance of survival passing through the upper stomach.

Kefir doesn't get destroyed in the upper digestive tract any more than harmful bacteria do - they all make it through. Kefir is already acidic - why would acid destroy it? It is doubtful that the stomach acids would even be released in response to a glass of kefir - this is why it is always recommended to drink it on an empty stomach i.e. to give it free passage through to where it is needed.

A few grams of whatever in a capsule are just not enough to influence a colony which consists of about 100 trillion members. You need to get healthy bacteria into your gut in large numbers to be of any use. A beginner needs more than a mouthful once or twice a week. 250 - 500 ml per day is what you need.

Here's some numbers to illustrate the difference between your capsules and kefir:

From here: http://www.squidoo.com/kefirgrains

"Numbers do not lie:

* One capsule of man-made probiotics normally contains about 15 billion bacteria.

* One small bowl of fresh yogurt (500 ml), contains about 1.5 trillion beneficial organisms. - 100 times more than a 15 billion capsule.

* And one small bowl of fresh kefir (500 ml), contains as many as

5 trillion beneficial organisms. Almost 400 times more than a capsule"

Anyway, you can persevere with expensive capsules. I'll go for the real thing and save money while I'm at it.

Whose figures? you know how it is !, one person says one thing, and then another contradicts it.

But undoubtedly the enzymes would be beneficial anyway.

I don't take capsules at all, but I do take live yoghurt a few times a week. It's not something I really believe as returning to a balanced diet minus problem foods has been the best cure so far, and is surely the best advice anyone can give to an IBS sufferer.

And I have been having more and more milk without side effects. You know as I gain insight, I think my main problem is not so much lactose as cheapy products like KFC ice cream, I think it all the additives and stimulants, and God knows what that goes in to poor foods, snacks, and off the shelf products could be the main problem.

Good luck with the kefir, hope to try some myself some time.

It is important to emphasise that IBS is a multi factorial syndrome and that numerous factors are likely to be involved, including stress, over nutrition, food intolerance, addiction to substances such as alcohol, as well neurological causes, and as yet unknown factors, and it is unlikely that kefir is anything other than one good food amongst many others that might address gut flora imbalance in some people.

[tropo]

Whose figures? you know how it is !, one person says one thing, and then another contradicts it.

It is important to emphasise that IBS is a multi factorial syndrome and that numerous factors are likely to be involved, including stress, over nutrition, food intolerance, addiction to substances such as alcohol, as well neurological causes, and as yet unknown factors, and it is unlikely that kefir is anything other than one good food amongst many others that might address gut flora imbalance in some people.

Pretty much everyone's figures. You won't find any figures claiming that a capsule contains more than a fraction of what is found in a glassful of kefir.

It's important to emphasize that until a few posts ago you didn't know what kefir was, so it's highly unlikely you'd have any understanding of how powerful a substance it is in addressing gut flora imbalances in a very large number of people.

There is no food which comes close to achieving what kefir can achieve. Good luck is not required. I take steps to assure my good health and don't rely on luck.

It's not a magic bullet for people who otherwise abuse their digestive systems, but even serious abusers will gain a substantial benefit by introducing it into their diet.

To obtain vibrant health obviously one should not drink alcohol and eat KFC ice cream, but you've already stated you're not too interested in health, but merely relief from your IBS symptoms.

That's where you'll need all the luck you can get, so I wish you luck.

Edited June 11, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

Whose figures? you know how it is !, one person says one thing, and then another contradicts it.

It is important to emphasise that IBS is a multi factorial syndrome and that numerous factors are likely to be involved, including stress, over nutrition, food intolerance, addiction to substances such as alcohol, as well neurological causes, and as yet unknown factors, and it is unlikely that kefir is anything other than one good food amongst many others that might address gut flora imbalance in some people.

Pretty much everyone's figures. You won't find any figures claiming that a capsule contains more than a fraction of what is found in a glassful of kefir.

It's important to emphasize that until a few posts ago you didn't know what kefir was, so it's highly unlikely you'd have any understanding of how powerful a substance it is in addressing gut flora imbalances in a very large number of people.

There is no food which comes close to achieving what kefir can achieve. Good luck is not required. I take steps to assure my good health and don't rely on luck.

It's not a magic bullet for people who otherwise abuse their digestive systems, but even serious abusers will gain a substantial benefit by introducing it into their diet.

To obtain vibrant health obviously one should not drink alcohol and eat KFC ice cream, but you've already stated you're not too interested in health, but merely relief from your IBS symptoms.

That's where you'll need all the luck you can get, so I wish you luck.

We all need luck my friend, and if you don't understand that now, then you need to put your thinking cap on.

I meant to ask, did you get the worms before your great kefir conversion?

Obviously I am cutting out the rubbish food, and throughout my life have kept fit and am still quite slim. My exercise regime includes gym and aerobic when I do exercise.

Yes I am just after an enjoyable lifestyle in the 20 years I notionally have on the planet, and have accepted that with IBS 100% health is not possible, but for me to enjoy a bottle of wine once or twice a week is a marvellous thing. And I'm just settling in to middle age really, fought age like hell , that's not good.

Ironically, since acceptance I have gained short periods of vibrant health as you put it. I've also obtained significant relief from a very painful nasal condition, so I kind of want to relax and drop out a bit now I'm stronger.

I'm just taking an eclectic approach to the condition and exploring it from all angles, having been a mild sufferer for a good 3 decades, and with respect to all its various aspects.

From what has been discussed so far is it fair to say that you have never suffered IBS, whereas I have (do)?

I get quite agitated before watching England matches and started to experience the hot body, and cold sweat and rumbling stomach that I associate with IBS, thus for me it is a psychosomatic ailment as much as physical. Sometimes i also get the symtoms when under stress from work too, I can feel quite sick, if I can muster up the will to get out and do a jog or there is a chance of a kick anbout the symptoms and cramps soon go.

[tropo]

We all need luck my friend, and if you don't understand that now, then you need to put your thinking cap on.

There's a lot you can do to improve your luck - like drinking kefir.

Of course you'll never try it because you've spent the last 3 days on here trying to convince yourself and the rest of us that it is worthless - even before you had a clue what it is. Winning an argument is more important for you than trying something revolutionary.

Perhaps you need to take your thinking cap off for awhile?

[mommysboy]

We all need luck my friend, and if you don't understand that now, then you need to put your thinking cap on.

There's a lot you can do to improve your luck - like drinking kefir.

Of course you'll never try it because you've spent the last 3 days on here trying to convince yourself and the rest of us that it is worthless - even before you had a clue what it is. Winning an argument is more important for you than trying something revolutionary.

Perhaps you need to take your thinking cap off for awhile?

I meant to ask, are there any credible studies/reports you can refernce us to so we might study and make our own minds up.?

I know there is now an accepted medical procedure, whereby people with gut flora deficiencies have a 'transplant' from a healthy relative, and the reports are that it works for most.

I haven't dismissed kefir at all and will try it myself if I can get hold of some, just pointing out right size and proportions, on what can be regarded as a health supplement with possible benefits, not the least being the lacto bacilli, and the enzymes.

[tropo]

I meant to ask, are there any credible studies/reports you can refernce us to so we might study and make our own minds up.?

Probably not. This is one time where you're going to take off that thinking cap and read forums where real people are getting results and try it for yourself.

As I said, no one is pushing this. It's of no commercial interest to anyone. Who's going to finance the scientific studies?

I think one of your main problems is that you over think everything. Science doesn't usually have the answers you want. Nature does.

Your choice. Wait around for "credible studies", which are unlikely to arrive in your lifetime, or gain real benefits now.