Canadian Sisters Found Dead In Thai Resort

[LarryBird]

The farang on here that don't care are the same as the Thai's that don't care.. If it's a farang getting screwed over, they don't care because..........IT'S NOT THEM it's happening to, and IT WON'T BE THEM.. Which is of course short sighted, but.. that's how people are.. They will never understand the concept of 'an injustice for one is an injustice for all.' They think censorship is fine as long as it's 'reasonable'.

[stevenl]

No , did not say noon was a hard fact, but ask 10 people what approximate time is mid day to them..... guess what..... It does say the police were notified at about 9PM.... So whatever time the bodies were discovered, do you not think that there is a large time lag from your mid day?

Cute baby...... I hope what you have is not contagious.

And you're still trusting the newspapers to report the correct timeline, see the new report from George 2 posts above this one e.g., new timeline.

Why the need to insult other people BTW, 'banal question', 'hope what you have is not contagious'. Do you really find that necessary in stead of normal communications?

Edited June 17, 2012 by stevenl

[Briggsy]

I don't know why everybody is speculating.The very little info so far has come from the random statements of a provincial senior police officer filtered through a translator and a Thai journalist.Those who have any idea of Thailand will know if you combine these three sources of information together, you often get something completely the opposite of the facts. They certainly cannot be held as reliable and it would be much better to wait for confirmation.Also, the word "lesions" if it is accurate can refer to a whole range of damage to the skin from bruising to burns to blisters to a pustulent rash. It is a very general word. In fact it is probably a translation, in this case, of the Thai word phlae แผลBut I am sure the google pathologists will carry on.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Briggsy

[Suradit69]

Good say, you right i live 4 year here never had problems, i am from Belgium i think it is more safe here

Sadly, your perception is incorrect. A person is 4x as likely to be murdered in Thailand (per 100,000 populations) as in Belgium:

Source, the UN. http://www.unodc.org...es-05012009.pdf

Belgium: 1.6- 2.1 intentional homicides per 100,000. Thailand: 8.2- 9.0.

A person in Thailand is also probably several times more likely to be killed in traffic (per 100 million vehicle miles driven) than in Europe. I haven't looked that one up for Europe, but my recollection is that the factor for the USA is 12x more likely to be killed in traffic in Thailand.

Sadly, your 12 x number seems to have no connection to reality.

According to several sources, traffic death rates in 2009 per 100,000 population were:

Thailand 19.6

USA 13.9

http://www.photius.c...kings_2009.html

The rates appear higher based on number of registered vehicles because in the US many vehicles are driven very few miles/km compared to a country like Thailand where many vehicles are used continuously and rarely just garaged or only used for weekend travel.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Suradit69

[55Jay]

Blue nails ....... feature of

Carbon monoxide poisoning ..... faulty water heater?

Cyanide poisoning .......... more likely as vomiting also caused.

Bleeding gums and vomiting .......... rat poison.

A sad and pointless loss of two young womens lives.

Yes my dear Watson, could have been a faulty (wall mounted electric) water heater.

[LarryBird]

What's the problem with the google pathologists? At least they're trying to bring something substantial to the discussion.. No one's saying 'it's definitely this' ... Just presenting possibilities, just like presenting the fact that something similar happened at the Lalanee place in 2009... People are discussing, that's what they do on forums..

These girls sounded like really nice french canadians.. Quite sad. I feel for their families. As someone who has watched my parents bury a child, there's no pain like it.

[Gonzo the Face]

No , did not say noon was a hard fact, but ask 10 people what approximate time is mid day to them..... guess what..... It does say the police were notified at about 9PM.... So whatever time the bodies were discovered, do you not think that there is a large time lag from your mid day?

Cute baby...... I hope what you have is not contagious.

And you're still trusting the newspapers to report the correct timeline, see the new report from George 2 posts above this one e.g., new timeline.

Why the need to insult other people BTW, 'banal question', 'hope what you have is not contagious'. Do you really find that necessary in stead of normal communications?

Re trusting newspapers...... seems like I'm not the only one...... It does seem that you are posting on this thread re the 2 girls being dead......how do you know they are dead? How do you know it happened in PP ? No doubt by your writing you read it in the newspaper...... isn't that trusting what you read?? So what you must mean is that others cannot trust what they read in newspapers, but only you can trust what you read in newspapers..

And more seriously..... that is a very cute baby +1

[smedly]

I think the mass speculation on these type of events/threads shows the general misstrust we falangs have for Thai authorities and possible coverups, we all want to know the truth even if it hurts tourism and raises some serious issues that need to be addressed here in LOS - in this case "Land of Sadness" Chang Mai being a case in point were the eventual destruction of a hotel was the final outcome - wipe it off the face of the earth and the problem will go away without ever knowing what actually happened.

[happysanook]

I think the mass speculation on these type of events/threads shows the general misstrust we falangs have for Thai authorities and possible coverups, we all want to know the truth even if it hurts tourism and raises some serious issues that need to be addressed here in LOS - in this case "Land of Sadness" Chang Mai being a case in point were the eventual destruction of a hotel was the final outcome - wipe it off the face of the earth and the problem will go away without ever knowing what actually happened.

Actually surprised they even did that much. Surprised they didn't just leave it up and business as usual.

This is another gloomy case from the Thai tourism industry.

I am absolutely astonished by the number of tourist death in Thailand. I would like to see a research of the tourist death around the world comparing to Thailand. I bet Thailand is going to be on the top. Would the Thai authorities disclose the real number? I bet, no.

I will take that bet...since New York City alone lays waste to plenty. However, your underling point that Thailand derives much of its income from the Tourist trade and this casts a dark shadow has value. Instead of sweeping this under the rug, they need to use every possible resource to determine the cause of death and peruse every avenue. The damage to the image of a Travel destination isn't "bad things happen here" ... everyone knows that is global. The problem is the perception that bad things happen to tourists, and we don't do much about it....so why would that trend end?

Bullcrap. You'd lose that bet...and badly. When's the last time you heard about a tourist being poisoned to death in the States? I'll give you a hint. Google "tourist dies of poisoning america" and guess what the top result is - Tourist deaths in Thailand.

Yes, of course there are accidents in the States and other countries... Helicopters, car crashes, sky diving...Alcohol poisoning Etc... But rarely murder or negligent homicide such as in Thailand.

Edited June 17, 2012 by happysanook

[robertson468]

On and on and on...how often do we hear of these kinds of suspicious deaths in other major tourist destinations? Rarely is the answer. But in Thailand it is all the time. Whether it is by beatings and violence, supposed suicides, road accidents or poison, untimely death in Thailand is statistically at alarmingly high freqency. But as the Thai's don't seem to regard non-Thais even as human and perhaps even find it amusing to see hated foreigners die, there is no properr investigation by the Thai authorities. Thais care only about money from foreigners, nothing else, even if it means bodily harm and death. When is the world going to see Thailand for what it actually is and that is certainly not the land of smiles.

What a terribly cynical post.

If any Thais you know are happy at a foreigners death I can only suggest you're hanging with the wrong crowd as I have never come across this attitude in all my 11 years here.

May I second that? Yes, his posting is over the top. The proposition that generally speaking Thais hate foreigners and enjoy seeing them suffer and die is bizarre. If i ever woke up and felt that way, after my morning cup, I would book a flight, pack my bags and leave. As to running with the wrong crowd, i suspect you are spot on. Every major city has a zone where people are treated like meat, a walking ATM and life is cheap. My experience here has been wonderful, and the one or two problems I had, I created...and would have gotten the same result pretty much anywhere in the world. I was impatient and rude, and got what i had coming to me. Lesson learned. i would say to the original poster...the shine has worn off, it is time to move on...but remember...when you get to your new paradise...you will be unpacking the same baggage you carry now. And end up in the same state of mind. Geography can not make an unhappy person happy, that is an internal journey.

First of all may I say how devastating it must be to loose two lovely daughters just starting out on their journey of life. My heart felt condolences go to their parents and/or family. Secondly I agree whole heartedly with the above post. No matter where this person goes, life/people will never be good enough for him/her, nor will they experience great happiness, which is very sad. I think there are a few posts that are over the top. Thailand is no worse for killings than many so called developed Countries, which is a bit sad that so many have deemed it acceptable to write so much uninformed waffle. C'mon TV Members, stop bitching for the sake of bitching.

[sunshine51]

RIP.

Drinking pesticide is supposedly the most common suicide in poor rural areas of China and possibly Thailand. There was an article a few years ago in Thailand about increasing numbers of young poor people drinking Polydol here to commit suicide.

Thailand has an extremely casual disregard for neurotoxic pesticide chemicals, they are cheap to buy, easy to obtain, and the regulations are never enforced. Many pesticides available in Thailand and handled by teenagers here, are banned in the west. Symptoms of these legal farming and home-control toxins do fit the girls' death symptoms, if they were poisoned by administering of neat pesticide.

Even walking through a cloud of powerful neurotoxic spray by accident will give you many symptoms including nausea, skin lesions including gums, breathing difficulties etc.etc. and of course lung cancer eventually. Drinking it will be far stronger effect and instant. Obviously murder by poisoning happens in every country on Earth, is used by aristocrats and royalty worldwide through the ages, and so is not a Thai problem. I think the availability and use of pesticides in Thailand needed regulation and enforcement several decades ago and more so now.

Logically if teenagers here commit suicide by drinking pesticide, then theres no reason for killers to not use it in their crimes too. Addressing the root problems of poverty in society and regulating the availability of these poisons will certainly improve the situation in my view.

Warfarin...rat poison...is also used in hospitals as an anticoagulant to prevent various forms

of thrombosis. Just Google Warfarin and look at the Wiki page.

Many types of highly lethal (to humans) pesticides are easily obtained here in Thailand; even

at your common "hardware store" with zero regulations set forth for purchase...ie...ID card

particulars recorded etc. Examples...Paraquat...banned world wide plus Endosulfan also banned worldwide are easily obtainable in LOS....by anybody.

Arsenic poisoning is cumulative in humans and animals. Meaning that if the dose was high enough

to kill a human (set by body weight), the human would easily detect a strange metallic taste in their mouth and most likely spit out what they had in said mouth. This holds true even in spicy foods such as Somtam. The best laid arsenic poisonings occur over long periods of time...many months....so the taste will be virtually undetected. That's why it is so crucial water tables do not get polluted by various mineral mines...such as a local gold mine where arsenic is used to "float" the gold.

Strychnine poisoning produces horrific convulsions prior to death and also leads to blue nails and

gum bleeds. It's easy to get in LOS too for rat & other vermin control although better stuff is available.

Cyanide (sodium or potassium) is also fairly easy to get if one knows a "brand name" and these are

used for pest control also.

I'm not going to list a bunch more lethal substances in this post about these two departed girls as it

serves no purpose. However what we appear to have is an "easy way out" syndrom here in LOS

that is begat by lack of knowledge and money. In other words one kills mosquitoes by going to the store and buying their favourite mossie spray. The same applies for killing rats, cats and other vermin. Think about this...when was the last time you ever saw a Rent-O-Kill or other "pest control" agency truck pull into a hotel's parking lot, shopping mall, mates home etc. Here in LOS it's easier to get your local lad with the know how to head to the hardware store and buy what's needed to kill

the lil beasties. What that local lad buddy may not know is that in many cases somebody with the

"knowledge" of how to clean up not only the dead beasties but the poisons remaining after the spray

or placement and beasties killed is lacking in his or her mind set. Then again some local lads will do their best to try and tell you you must be very careful when you do clean your place yourself!

This incident is tragic and will undoubtedly be another negative factor on the tourist industry for LOS.

To help solve the problem poverty eradication will be of great value and along with that the issuance of proper licenses for poisons handlers of all kinds along with proper training. Not to mention proper

poison control to get the stuff outta hardware stores and everybody's hands.

I'm not a chemist, I'm not a doctor, I'm just a farang who has lived in this part of the world for over 40

years who knows a few things about a few things and is not shy to learn new things.

SS51

[smedly]

I once stayed in a rented condo in pattaya and 2x a month a guy would come knocking at the door with a spray bottle strapped to his back wanting to spray the room, I refused point blank to let him in, no idea what was in the spray but obviously some sort of insecticide

[robertson468]

Good say, you right i live 4 year here never had problems, i am from Belgium i think it is more safe here

Sadly, your perception is incorrect. A person is 4x as likely to be murdered in Thailand (per 100,000 populations) as in Belgium:

Source, the UN. http://www.unodc.org...es-05012009.pdf

Belgium: 1.6- 2.1 intentional homicides per 100,000. Thailand: 8.2- 9.0.

A person in Thailand is also probably several times more likely to be killed in traffic (per 100 million vehicle miles driven) than in Europe. I haven't looked that one up for Europe, but my recollection is that the factor for the USA is 12x more likely to be killed in traffic in Thailand.

I would suggest it is more appropriate to compare like with like ie developing Country with developing County or developed Country with developed Country. Why not try Nigeria????

[GentlemanJim]

Blue nails ....... feature of

Carbon monoxide poisoning ..... faulty water heater?

Cyanide poisoning .......... more likely as vomiting also caused.

Bleeding gums and vomiting .......... rat poison.

A sad and pointless loss of two young womens lives.

Yes my dear Watson, could have been a faulty (wall mounted electric) water heater.

How?

[happysanook]

On and on and on...how often do we hear of these kinds of suspicious deaths in other major tourist destinations? Rarely is the answer. But in Thailand it is all the time. Whether it is by beatings and violence, supposed suicides, road accidents or poison, untimely death in Thailand is statistically at alarmingly high freqency. But as the Thai's don't seem to regard non-Thais even as human and perhaps even find it amusing to see hated foreigners die, there is no properr investigation by the Thai authorities. Thais care only about money from foreigners, nothing else, even if it means bodily harm and death. When is the world going to see Thailand for what it actually is and that is certainly not the land of smiles.

What a terribly cynical post.

If any Thais you know are happy at a foreigners death I can only suggest you're hanging with the wrong crowd as I have never come across this attitude in all my 11 years here.

May I second that? Yes, his posting is over the top. The proposition that generally speaking Thais hate foreigners and enjoy seeing them suffer and die is bizarre. If i ever woke up and felt that way, after my morning cup, I would book a flight, pack my bags and leave. As to running with the wrong crowd, i suspect you are spot on. Every major city has a zone where people are treated like meat, a walking ATM and life is cheap. My experience here has been wonderful, and the one or two problems I had, I created...and would have gotten the same result pretty much anywhere in the world. I was impatient and rude, and got what i had coming to me. Lesson learned. i would say to the original poster...the shine has worn off, it is time to move on...but remember...when you get to your new paradise...you will be unpacking the same baggage you carry now. And end up in the same state of mind. Geography can not make an unhappy person happy, that is an internal journey.

First of all may I say how devastating it must be to loose two lovely daughters just starting out on their journey of life. My heart felt condolences go to their parents and/or family. Secondly I agree whole heartedly with the above post. No matter where this person goes, life/people will never be good enough for him/her, nor will they experience great happiness, which is very sad. I think there are a few posts that are over the top. Thailand is no worse for killings than many so called developed Countries, which is a bit sad that so many have deemed it acceptable to write so much uninformed waffle. C'mon TV Members, stop bitching for the sake of bitching.

Naive at best.

[stevenl]

No , did not say noon was a hard fact, but ask 10 people what approximate time is mid day to them..... guess what..... It does say the police were notified at about 9PM.... So whatever time the bodies were discovered, do you not think that there is a large time lag from your mid day?

Cute baby...... I hope what you have is not contagious.

And you're still trusting the newspapers to report the correct timeline, see the new report from George 2 posts above this one e.g., new timeline.

Why the need to insult other people BTW, 'banal question', 'hope what you have is not contagious'. Do you really find that necessary in stead of normal communications?

Re trusting newspapers...... seems like I'm not the only one...... It does seem that you are posting on this thread re the 2 girls being dead......how do you know they are dead? How do you know it happened in PP ? No doubt by your writing you read it in the newspaper...... isn't that trusting what you read?? So what you must mean is that others cannot trust what they read in newspapers, but only you can trust what you read in newspapers..

And more seriously..... that is a very cute baby +1

Now you're making yourself look very, very silly. You give a timetable, I tell you that the times mentioned in several sources are very unreliable, new times are mentioned by sources, times that don't fit your timetable and speculation (later information is normally more reliable than the first information), and now you avoid that issue but claim 'if they are so unreliable, who says they are even dead'?

Very, very silly.

Edited June 17, 2012 by stevenl

[Lite Beer]

Discussion Continues Here:

http://www.thaivisa....l/#entry5397896