Cover Up? Australian Kickboxer 'Savagely Bashed In Phuket'

[somchaismith]

I think one is giving the Thai police too much credit regarding their ability to be able to predict, amnesia.

I'ts hard to find pity for them though...'The Boy Who Cried Wolf".

[wallcracks]

Well I did not read the last eight Sites but there is not much to speculate about.

Someone should check his Bike and after we will see if he was in a accident or not.

To Judge after his injuries it must have been maybe not a high Speed Crash but fast enough to leave marks on his Bike, if it still looks like before it was no accident...

[metisdead]

I think it is time for some to calm down and drop some of the character attacks. The family is reading this topic and some of these demeaning posts must be rather disturbing to read at this time.

[chooka]

I have attended numerous vehicle collisions, cars, motor bikes, pedestrians, bicycles and no two were ever the same. I do not know why people are comparing and speculating as to what injuries a person would sustain because you can't. i have seen motor bike riders that have displayed no visible trauma at all but the out come was tragic.

Because we are trying to establish if this was indeed a bike accident, or as purported a 'savage attack' by a gang of Thai's out to deliberately end this young man's fighting career.'

It is possible to establish if this was a bike accident or a severe beating with many comparisons of each, isn't it??

-mel.

I have not read anywhere that says it was a savage attack by a gang of Thais, another unfounded presumption and this forum again will never establish the ethnic background of other who may or may not have been involved.

Coast man savagely bashed in Phuket

Mackenzie Ravn

PHUKET: -- A CHAMPION Gold Coast kickboxer has suffered life-threatening injuries on the Thai tourist island of Phuket, the victim of what his family believe was a savage bashing.

Page 1 - opening headline. Another unfounded presumption of mine? Get real!

So you didn't read that it was said it was a savage attack by a gang of Thais in the first headline?

OK for you to knock me - when you haven't read the facts? Hum?

As for Southpeel liking your post, you too Southpeel are on a bender to wish wash anything I currently comment upon, so why don't you give it a rest too, as you suggested I do. You seem to be missing a few posts too. I don't dislike much of what you like, and rec a lot of them, as you know. You did however ask for the thread to be closed, and it was offered that you don't need to read further. So why are you still doing, negatively, I will add!

-mel.

I must be going blind and have read it again, I still can't see where it says he was attacked by a gang of "THAI's"

[ManInSurat]

I'd say lock it, but it'd be a shame for Daniel not to continue to receive the publicity that will encourage donations.

I'd please ask people to read all of what Daniel's mother has said in this thread. It answers lots of questions and also brings up more. If you do actually read what she says you'll quite clearly see their family is aware of the attention Daniel is getting at TV and have passed on wellwishing messages to Daniel on our behalf.

Daniel's mother said quite clearly she believe it could easily be foreigners that attacked her son.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt what this lady says. Please go and see how she describes her son.

It'll also be very easy to corborrate when I visit Phuket sometime soon. I'd like to wish him my best in person. Not that I feel that I need to coroborrate in any way, just making a point.

The total disregard for the family's feelings here is quite shocking from some people. You should know better really.

You've already scared the poor lady off the thread. Nice one fellas.

Edited June 23, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ttelise]

I have attended numerous vehicle collisions, cars, motor bikes, pedestrians, bicycles and no two were ever the same. I do not know why people are comparing and speculating as to what injuries a person would sustain because you can't. i have seen motor bike riders that have displayed no visible trauma at all but the out come was tragic.

Yep, know a guy from racing though he was motorcycle. He wrecked at Barber Motorspirts Park and walked away with

No viable injuries at perhaps 90 mph coming out of turn 17 on to straight by pits.

Everyone though he fine. Did not go to hospital. A couple of hours later he dropped dead. Had damaged his aeorta.

[Soutpeel]

Coast man savagely bashed in Phuket

Mackenzie Ravn

PHUKET: -- A CHAMPION Gold Coast kickboxer has suffered life-threatening injuries on the Thai tourist island of Phuket, the victim of what his family believe was a savage bashing.

Page 1 - opening headline. Another unfounded presumption of mine? Get real!

So you didn't read that it was said it was a savage attack by a gang of Thais in the first headline?

OK for you to knock me - when you haven't read the facts? Hum?

As for Southpeel liking your post, you too Southpeel are on a bender to wish wash anything I currently comment upon, so why don't you give it a rest too, as you suggested I do. You seem to be missing a few posts too. I don't dislike much of what you like, and rec a lot of them, as you know. You did however ask for the thread to be closed, and it was offered that you don't need to read further. So why are you still doing, negatively, I will add!

-mel.

and he still cant spell my name right....Mel me old fruit....what is new in this head line ?....the operative word is "believe"...this is not "fact" me old son...BTW Mel you been on the bevvie ?....certainly sounds like it your rambling

As regards closing the thread...I wasnt the only one who requested this...

Has this made your day Mel...thinking you got one over on Soutie on an anonymous internet forum ?.....woopie..do...I am really happy for you...

Edited June 23, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

You've already scared the poor lady off the thread. Nice one fellas.

To use a good old Scouse word...there have been some real gobshite's on here today...so not suprised..

[ManInSurat]

You've already scared the poor lady off the thread. Nice one fellas.

To use a good old Scouse word...there have been some real gobshite's on here today...so not suprised..

I agree, there's been some right scallies and sconeheads here on this thread.

Everyone needs to calm down, calm down.

Don't close it though, I'd like people to still be able to donate and be aware they can. I think the family could do with that helping hand and shows TV can be a force for good.

[Bender]

I'd say lock it, but it'd be a shame for Daniel not to continue to receive the publicity that will encourage donations.

I'd please ask people to read all of what Daniel's mother has said in this thread. It answers lots of questions and also brings up more. If you do actually read what she says you'll quite clearly see their family is aware of the attention Daniel is getting at TV and have passed on wellwishing messages to Daniel on our behalf.

Daniel's mother said quite clearly she believe it could easily be foreigners that attacked her son.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt what this lady says. Please go and see how she describes her son.

It'll also be very easy to corborrate when I visit Phuket sometime soon. I'd like to wish him my best in person. Not that I feel that I need to coroborrate in any way, just making a point.

The total disregard for the family's feelings here is quite shocking from some people. You should know better really.

You've already scared the poor lady off the thread. Nice one fellas.

great post, this young 18 yo need help.

So please dont add insult to his injuries...

[smedly]

There is one obvious thing here that I mentioned in a previous post but as yet I have not heard anything relating to the alledged crash site

If I had concerns about some sort of cover up I'd be right there doing and examination of the site, am I hearing this correctly that nobody from the family actually went to see where this was supposed to have taken place ?? and actually looked at the alledged pole that was involved, for me this would confirm what actually happened, along comes this doctor I think several weeks later and comes up with the dramatic conclusion suggesting that the injuries may not be consistant with a MB crash - Deborah I can understand where you and the family are right now but this whole thing is perhaps just a simple motorbike accident - a doctor is no accident investigator especially seeing injuries caused weeks beforehand - I hate to say this but as in my previous post - most of what you posted could be consistant with a MB crash - why would it not be - what are the credentials of this doctor to say otherwise

If it had been my son I'd have been right over there the next day to personally examine the alledged crash site - didn't the insurance company go there - why is it after many many posts on this forum that the crash site was never repoted as visited by friends or family

I have been dealing with crash scenes and victims all my life and in my opinion this doctor had no grounds to say what he did - there is simply no way he could know, certaintly you can tell if someone has been shot or stabbed because those are a very specific type of injury - do you honestly think this doctor could tell if a broken leg was cause by a MB accident or falling out of a tree, at the start of this thread people metioned that a very specific type of injury is evident in most MB accidents - road rash - but not always

all theories here that this was a planned attack are rubbish - he'd have been shot with a gun if that was the case - he had an accident and I wish Daniel a very speedy and full recovery the lovely lad he is

Edited June 23, 2012 by smedly

[ttelise]

There is one obvious thing here that I mentioned in a previous post but as yet I have not heard anything relating to the alledged crash site

If I had concerns about some sort of cover up I'd be right there doing and examination of the site, am I hearing this correctly that nobody from the family actually went to see where this was supposed to have taken place ?? and actually looked at the alledged pole that was involved, for me this would confirm what actually happened, along comes this doctor I think several weeks later and comes up with the dramatic conclusion suggesting that the injuries may not be consistant with a MB crash - Deborah I can understand where you and the family are right now but this whole thing is perhaps just a simple motorbike accident - a doctor is no accident investigator especially seeing injuries caused weeks beforehand - I hate to say this but as in my previous post - most of what you posted could be consistant with a MB crash - why would it not be - what are the credentials of this doctor to say otherwise

If it had been my son I'd have been right over there the next day to personally examine the alledged crash site - didn't the insurance company go there - why is it after many many posts on this forum that the crash site was never repoted as visited by friends or family

I have been dealing with crash scenes and victims all my life and in my opinion this doctor had no grounds to say what he did - there is simply no way he could know, certaintly you can tell if someone has been shot or stabbed because those are a very specific type of injury - do you honestly think this doctor could tell if a broken leg was cause by a MB accident or falling out of a tree, at the start of this thread people metioned that a very specific type of injury is evident in most MB accidents - road rash - but not always

all theories here that this was a planned attack are rubbish - he'd have been shot with a gun if that was the case - he had an accident and I wish Daniel a very speedy and full recovery the lovely lad he is

ER doctors and trauma doctors are absolutely in the best position to assess injuries and opine as to causation. That is how it is established here in the states in all personal injury cases.

[smedly]

not exactly as straight forward as that I'm afraid

They can be asked if this injury is consistant with ............ generally they can tell and confirm it "could have been what you suggest" but they certaintly cannot tell you how an injury was actually caused unless it's obvious

think about it

[ttelise]

not exactly as straight forward as that I'm afraid

They can be asked if this injury is consistant with ............ generally they can tell and confirm it "could have been what you suggest" but they certaintly cannot tell you how an injury was actually caused unless it's obvious

think about it

Think about what. I am a frickin trial lawyer for 17 years. They have to opine to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the alleged accident or incident caused the injuries. You can ask if consistent if you want, but I am asking "Doctor, based on your examination and treatment of the patient, is it your opinion that XYZ caused Mr. Smith's injuries," Yes. "And your opinion is based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty." Yes.

I represented doctors and hospitals about 11 of my 17 years. Orthopods and neurosurgeons are sharp. They can tell by the type of fracture, the extent of the fracture, and the location of the fracture what likely caused the fracture and the angle of impact. They can tell speed or pressure/force necessary to cause such injuries.

I have no opinion whatsoever what happened in this instant, but I would hope that a doctor could decipher injuries caused by numerous blows with a baseball bat and a blunt force trauma injury from running into a fixed object. No brainer fr a seasoned orthopod or neurosurgeon.

[Yunla]

Think about what. I am a frickin trial lawyer for 17 years. They have to opine to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the alleged accident or incident caused the injuries. You can ask if consistent if you want, but I am asking "Doctor, based on your examination and treatment of the patient, is it your opinion that XYZ caused Mr. Smith's injuries," Yes. "And your opinion is based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty." Yes.

Does that type of by-the-book, above-board stuff apply to Phuket, where the Russian mafia (spachiba etc.) runs money-laundering businesses and other serious crimes, with the assistance of the police and administrative officials. Do you consider it possible that armed mafia who can buy and intimidate police, would be unable to get a doctor to to change the wording on a short report, to clear them of a high-profile crime, for example. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are eminently corruptible.

You only have to look at how it is common practice for pharmaceutical companies to invite doctors to exotic locations for all-inclusive "conference holidays" to unveil a new drug product, the doctors are wined and dined for free, and when they get home they start recommending this new, often bad, drug to their patients. I wouldn't trust a doctor unless I'd had appointments with him for at least six months, would never take a new untested drug offered by a doctor and I certainly wouldn't take a doctors word in a violent crime case situated in the middle of the russian mob territory, after meeting the doctor for five minutes and reading his short report about non-existent potholes in the road.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Yunla

[huuwi]

Look at this guys body, no marks at all. How do you attack a person thats a champion kick boxer and only hit him on the head and right arm without leaving a mark on his body. No way!!! Let's wait and see on this one.

thats what i thought too, if he got beaten up, they will have kicked his body as well.

[ttelise]

Think about what. I am a frickin trial lawyer for 17 years. They have to opine to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the alleged accident or incident caused the injuries. You can ask if consistent if you want, but I am asking "Doctor, based on your examination and treatment of the patient, is it your opinion that XYZ caused Mr. Smith's injuries," Yes. "And your opinion is based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty." Yes.

Does that type of by-the-book, above-board stuff apply to Phuket, where the Russian mafia (spachiba etc.) runs money-laundering businesses and other serious crimes, with the assistance of the police and administrative officials. Do you consider it possible that armed mafia who can buy and intimidate police, would be unable to get a doctor to to change the wording on a short report, to clear them of a high-profile crime, for example. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are eminently corruptible.

You only have to look at how it is common practice for pharmaceutical companies to invite doctors to exotic locations for all-inclusive "conference holidays" to unveil a new drug product, the doctors are wined and dined for free, and when they get home they start recommending this new, often bad, drug to their patients. I wouldn't trust a doctor unless I'd had appointments with him for at least six months, would never take a new untested drug offered by a doctor and I certainly wouldn't take a doctors word in a violent crime case situated in the middle of the russian mob territory, after meeting the doctor for five minutes and reading his short report about non-existent potholes in the road.

You completely missed the point of the discussion. The other poster said that no way the doctor could have known what happened to this kid and that he should have never told the family that no way was the injuries caused by a motorcycle wreck. M point simply was that doctors are very qualified to opine as to what caused injuries and if they told the family that, he perhaps saw something that strongly supported his opinion.

BTW, stark II has gotten very restrictive on drug companies. Reps are not even supposed to take lunch into the offices any more. Don't get me started about pharmaceutical and medical device companies. I used to represent them. Now I sue them.

Edited June 24, 2012 by ttelise

[stevenl]

Think about what. I am a frickin trial lawyer for 17 years. They have to opine to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the alleged accident or incident caused the injuries. You can ask if consistent if you want, but I am asking "Doctor, based on your examination and treatment of the patient, is it your opinion that XYZ caused Mr. Smith's injuries," Yes. "And your opinion is based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty." Yes.

Does that type of by-the-book, above-board stuff apply to Phuket, where the Russian mafia (spachiba etc.) runs money-laundering businesses and other serious crimes, with the assistance of the police and administrative officials. Do you consider it possible that armed mafia who can buy and intimidate police, would be unable to get a doctor to to change the wording on a short report, to clear them of a high-profile crime, for example. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are eminently corruptible.

You only have to look at how it is common practice for pharmaceutical companies to invite doctors to exotic locations for all-inclusive "conference holidays" to unveil a new drug product, the doctors are wined and dined for free, and when they get home they start recommending this new, often bad, drug to their patients. I wouldn't trust a doctor unless I'd had appointments with him for at least six months, would never take a new untested drug offered by a doctor and I certainly wouldn't take a doctors word in a violent crime case situated in the middle of the russian mob territory, after meeting the doctor for five minutes and reading his short report about non-existent potholes in the road.

You completely missed the point of the discussion. The other poster said that no way the doctor could have known what happened to this kid and that he should have never told the family that no way was the injuries caused by a motorcycle wreck. M point simply was that doctors are very qualified to opine as to what caused injuries and if they told the family that, he perhaps saw something that strongly supported his opinion.

BTW, stark II has gotten very restrictive on drug companies. Reps are not even supposed to take lunch into the offices any more. Don't get me started about pharmaceutical and medical device companies. I used to represent them. Now I sue them.

Don't forget that the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident. The doctor hired by the family, much later, possibly saw things differently.

[ManInSurat]

You completely missed the point of the discussion. The other poster said that no way the doctor could have known what happened to this kid and that he should have never told the family that no way was the injuries caused by a motorcycle wreck. M point simply was that doctors are very qualified to opine as to what caused injuries and if they told the family that, he perhaps saw something that strongly supported his opinion.

Not to mention the fact that by encouraging the family to think this way, it could potentially put him on a collision course with the BiB.

I said before and I'll say it again. Thailand has one of the highest, if not THE highest amount of RTAs per year in the world. I'd imagine a massive porportion of doctors' work is RTA related here. If there's one thing they see a lot of its injuries resulting from car and bike accidents.

Look at this guys body, no marks at all. How do you attack a person thats a champion kick boxer and only hit him on the head and right arm without leaving a mark on his body. No way!!! Let's wait and see on this one.

thats what i thought too, if he got beaten up, they will have kicked his body as well.

It's inane rubbish like this^ that needs to be eradicated from posts.

A.) You cannot see his lower body in any of the photographs in this thread or linked articles/photos, certainly not his abdomen.

B.) "They would have kicked his body as well" Why would they? You're an expert on every physical attack perpetrated in Thailand are you? I'd have thought to cause maximum damage in the shortest time, you'd concentrate all your effort on the head. This assertion that people have to be kicked is just nonsensical.

C.) You're an expert on what damage on the body sustained from kicks looks like, if he was indeed kicked, are you? The most common form of lower body injury, especially in the abodem that I hear of is internal bleeding.

D.) You obviously haven't even bothered to read any of the posts here. Especially those written by his mother, that explain his injuries in clear detail:

"Internal bleeding in the abdomen area, which may have been received from kicks. Daniel's body is conditioned to receive blows. He also had bruises to both his hips."

E.) You didn't even consider for a second that the majority of the damage would have been done with some sort of blunt instrument. The damage to his hand, which is clearly visible would be consistent with shielding your face. Again from Daniel's mother:

"Later that week our doctor who was caring for him at home approached me and asked me if I had considered that Daniel's injuries were not due to a motorcycle accident. That in his

experience with forensics, he was clearly beaten with a bat or an object of the sort and that the injuries were caused to cause permanent damage or even death."

F.) Lastly for everyone esle that seems to have automatically assumed that if it is an attack, then it must have been done by Thais. Again from Daniel's mother:

"We have never mentioned the attackers were Thai and they may very well have been foreigners."

G.) This is what makes me definitely not even question what the lady says for an instant.

"What we do know for sure is that Daniel is a respected member of the community. He isn't arrogant or rude, nor does he boast about his achievements and talents. He has been living in Thailand almost 5 years, 2 of them in Ubon where he learnt to speak Thai. He has high respect for Thais and knows how to conduct himself. He is not on Ya Ba or any such drugs and has nothing to hide. When asked if he owes money or has been involved with the wrong people, he says "I don't know of anyone who would do this to me, or want to do this to me." Anyone that has had any contact with Daniel

will verify that he is a decent, respectful and talented young man whose only dream is to make it big in the Muay Thai world. He left to go to Ubon at 18 and Muay Thai is his life."

That is not your stereotype you have in your heads. Is it?

If you bothered to read, inform yourself, instead of just spouting off at the mouth, life would be so much easier for everyone and you wouldn't run the risk of upsetting their family more than is necessary. We already know they read this thread. Well they did before Deborah told us she wasn't going to post anymore. Who knows if they'd bother to come back. From the things some people have said, I wouldn't want to either.

I'd like to think we can rally round and be supportive instead of always having to doubt and spread misinformation and cause potential upset to people who have to be going through a very hard time.

I live in hope.

Edited June 24, 2012 by ManInSurat

[steelepulse]

No where that I have read tells us if Daniel and his motorbike were found next to a pole. Was he or wasn't he and his bike found next to a pole?

[smedly]

There is one obvious thing here that I mentioned in a previous post but as yet I have not heard anything relating to the alledged crash site

If I had concerns about some sort of cover up I'd be right there doing and examination of the site, am I hearing this correctly that nobody from the family actually went to see where this was supposed to have taken place ?? and actually looked at the alledged pole that was involved, for me this would confirm what actually happened, along comes this doctor I think several weeks later and comes up with the dramatic conclusion suggesting that the injuries may not be consistant with a MB crash - Deborah I can understand where you and the family are right now but this whole thing is perhaps just a simple motorbike accident - a doctor is no accident investigator especially seeing injuries caused weeks beforehand - I hate to say this but as in my previous post - most of what you posted could be consistant with a MB crash - why would it not be - what are the credentials of this doctor to say otherwise

If it had been my son I'd have been right over there the next day to personally examine the alledged crash site - didn't the insurance company go there - why is it after many many posts on this forum that the crash site was never repoted as visited by friends or family

I have been dealing with crash scenes and victims all my life and in my opinion this doctor had no grounds to say what he did - there is simply no way he could know, certaintly you can tell if someone has been shot or stabbed because those are a very specific type of injury - do you honestly think this doctor could tell if a broken leg was cause by a MB accident or falling out of a tree, at the start of this thread people metioned that a very specific type of injury is evident in most MB accidents - road rash - but not always

all theories here that this was a planned attack are rubbish - he'd have been shot with a gun if that was the case - he had an accident and I wish Daniel a very speedy and full recovery the lovely lad he is

ER doctors and trauma doctors are absolutely in the best position to assess injuries and opine as to causation. That is how it is established here in the states in all personal injury cases.

no it isn't - as I stated above some injuries in most cases are easy to determine cause - gunshot wounds - stabings - motorcar accidents etc as there are obvious patterns to the injuries including fragments which build a profile of evidence, a doctor in most cases would be regarded as an expert and can verify in his/her opinion that the claimed causation of injury is plauseable with a degree of certainty but not all cases are that straight forward e.g. if I slipped fell down stairs and broke my arm there is no doctor on this planet that could with 100% certainty say that that is how I broke my arm they could only verify that that is a possibility, it is the same with pathologists and post mortems - they cannot always give cause of death to a 100% degree of accuracy in all cases - most yes but not all

In this case as I have already stated there are other factors that should have been considered - the alledged scene - the medical staff at the scene - the person who call for ambulance/police etc etc. In the west the scene of a serious accident is very well documented and investigated unfortunately this doesn't always happen in Thailand but certaintly isn't a reason to suspect fowl play.

This whole episode is a sad reflection of the level of expertise and professionalism here in Thailand, there may be some aspects of this case that could fuel some doubtas with most things but for me it is not conclusive, for me the only way we will ever find out 100% is when Daniel remembers

[Deborah1966]

Think about what. I am a frickin trial lawyer for 17 years. They have to opine to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the alleged accident or incident caused the injuries. You can ask if consistent if you want, but I am asking "Doctor, based on your examination and treatment of the patient, is it your opinion that XYZ caused Mr. Smith's injuries," Yes. "And your opinion is based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty." Yes.

Does that type of by-the-book, above-board stuff apply to Phuket, where the Russian mafia (spachiba etc.) runs money-laundering businesses and other serious crimes, with the assistance of the police and administrative officials. Do you consider it possible that armed mafia who can buy and intimidate police, would be unable to get a doctor to to change the wording on a short report, to clear them of a high-profile crime, for example. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are eminently corruptible.

You only have to look at how it is common practice for pharmaceutical companies to invite doctors to exotic locations for all-inclusive "conference holidays" to unveil a new drug product, the doctors are wined and dined for free, and when they get home they start recommending this new, often bad, drug to their patients. I wouldn't trust a doctor unless I'd had appointments with him for at least six months, would never take a new untested drug offered by a doctor and I certainly wouldn't take a doctors word in a violent crime case situated in the middle of the russian mob territory, after meeting the doctor for five minutes and reading his short report about non-existent potholes in the road.

You completely missed the point of the discussion. The other poster said that no way the doctor could have known what happened to this kid and that he should have never told the family that no way was the injuries caused by a motorcycle wreck. M point simply was that doctors are very qualified to opine as to what caused injuries and if they told the family that, he perhaps saw something that strongly supported his opinion.

BTW, stark II has gotten very restrictive on drug companies. Reps are not even supposed to take lunch into the offices any more. Don't get me started about pharmaceutical and medical device companies. I used to represent them. Now I sue them.

Don't forget that the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident. The doctor hired by the family, much later, possibly saw things differently.

Would you please show proof of where the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident? I'd be interested to know how you got that documented information and I didn't.

[ttelise]

Think about what. I am a frickin trial lawyer for 17 years. They have to opine to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the alleged accident or incident caused the injuries. You can ask if consistent if you want, but I am asking "Doctor, based on your examination and treatment of the patient, is it your opinion that XYZ caused Mr. Smith's injuries," Yes. "And your opinion is based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty." Yes.

Does that type of by-the-book, above-board stuff apply to Phuket, where the Russian mafia (spachiba etc.) runs money-laundering businesses and other serious crimes, with the assistance of the police and administrative officials. Do you consider it possible that armed mafia who can buy and intimidate police, would be unable to get a doctor to to change the wording on a short report, to clear them of a high-profile crime, for example. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are eminently corruptible.

You only have to look at how it is common practice for pharmaceutical companies to invite doctors to exotic locations for all-inclusive "conference holidays" to unveil a new drug product, the doctors are wined and dined for free, and when they get home they start recommending this new, often bad, drug to their patients. I wouldn't trust a doctor unless I'd had appointments with him for at least six months, would never take a new untested drug offered by a doctor and I certainly wouldn't take a doctors word in a violent crime case situated in the middle of the russian mob territory, after meeting the doctor for five minutes and reading his short report about non-existent potholes in the road.

You completely missed the point of the discussion. The other poster said that no way the doctor could have known what happened to this kid and that he should have never told the family that no way was the injuries caused by a motorcycle wreck. M point simply was that doctors are very qualified to opine as to what caused injuries and if they told the family that, he perhaps saw something that strongly supported his opinion.

BTW, stark II has gotten very restrictive on drug companies. Reps are not even supposed to take lunch into the offices any more. Don't get me started about pharmaceutical and medical device companies. I used to represent them. Now I sue them.

Don't forget that the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident. The doctor hired by the family, much later, possibly saw things differently.

I said I have no opinion what happened. I would definitely defer to doctors

[ManInSurat]

Would you please show proof of where the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident? I'd be interested to know how you got that documented information and I didn't.

Hi Deborah and welcome back to the thread, I hope Daniel is improving.

Not that people should be citing it as any form of proof as not one of us have spoken to anyone of the authorities involved, I think the cause of this is the Gold Coast article that's linked in the original post.

You can find it here. Gold Coast Article.

You can see about halfway down it says:

Freelance journalist Phil Teese lives on Phuket and said despite the family's belief that their son was bashed, emergency authorities were sure Daniel's injuries fitted those of an accident.

"The people at the hospital and the police are saying the injuries are more consistent with running into a pole than being attacked," he said.

If I read the article that way given the information about Daniel being on a bike that evening, I'd assume that's what was meant. It lead me to come to that conclusion too, until you came on the thread and helped clear it up in my mind.

All the best.

Edited June 24, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ttelise]

There is one obvious thing here that I mentioned in a previous post but as yet I have not heard anything relating to the alledged crash site

If I had concerns about some sort of cover up I'd be right there doing and examination of the site, am I hearing this correctly that nobody from the family actually went to see where this was supposed to have taken place ?? and actually looked at the alledged pole that was involved, for me this would confirm what actually happened, along comes this doctor I think several weeks later and comes up with the dramatic conclusion suggesting that the injuries may not be consistant with a MB crash - Deborah I can understand where you and the family are right now but this whole thing is perhaps just a simple motorbike accident - a doctor is no accident investigator especially seeing injuries caused weeks beforehand - I hate to say this but as in my previous post - most of what you posted could be consistant with a MB crash - why would it not be - what are the credentials of this doctor to say otherwise

If it had been my son I'd have been right over there the next day to personally examine the alledged crash site - didn't the insurance company go there - why is it after many many posts on this forum that the crash site was never repoted as visited by friends or family

I have been dealing with crash scenes and victims all my life and in my opinion this doctor had no grounds to say what he did - there is simply no way he could know, certaintly you can tell if someone has been shot or stabbed because those are a very specific type of injury - do you honestly think this doctor could tell if a broken leg was cause by a MB accident or falling out of a tree, at the start of this thread people metioned that a very specific type of injury is evident in most MB accidents - road rash - but not always

all theories here that this was a planned attack are rubbish - he'd have been shot with a gun if that was the case - he had an accident and I wish Daniel a very speedy and full recovery the lovely lad he is

ER doctors and trauma doctors are absolutely in the best position to assess injuries and opine as to causation. That is how it is established here in the states in all personal injury cases.

no it isn't - as I stated above some injuries in most cases are easy to determine cause - gunshot wounds - stabings - motorcar accidents etc as there are obvious patterns to the injuries including fragments which build a profile of evidence, a doctor in most cases would be regarded as an expert and can verify in his/her opinion that the claimed causation of injury is plauseable with a degree of certainty but not all cases are that straight forward e.g. if I slipped fell down stairs and broke my arm there is no doctor on this planet that could with 100% certainty say that that is how I broke my arm they could only verify that that is a possibility, it is the same with pathologists and post mortems - they cannot always give cause of death to a 100% degree of accuracy in all cases - most yes but not all

In this case as I have already stated there are other factors that should have been considered - the alledged scene - the medical staff at the scene - the person who call for ambulance/police etc etc. In the west the scene of a serious accident is very well documented and investigated unfortunately this doesn't always happen in Thailand but certaintly isn't a reason to suspect fowl play.

This whole episode is a sad reflection of the level of expertise and professionalism here in Thailand, there may be some aspects of this case that could fuel some doubtas with most things but for me it is not conclusive, for me the only way we will ever find out 100% is when Daniel remembers

Well, if the doctor cannot establish, then they say so and the injured person loses court case or does not get to court. This is just common sense and your disagreement with a doctor's theory in this case has clouded your judgment.

No one other than a medical doctor can establish causation or that the medical bills were reasonably and necessarily incurred as the result of an accident.

There is no way any of us sitting her on a computer, without examining the victim, viewing the medical records, seeing the radiology films and reports could proffer anything resembling an informed and intelligent opinion as to cause.

[ttelise]

Does that type of by-the-book, above-board stuff apply to Phuket, where the Russian mafia (spachiba etc.) runs money-laundering businesses and other serious crimes, with the assistance of the police and administrative officials. Do you consider it possible that armed mafia who can buy and intimidate police, would be unable to get a doctor to to change the wording on a short report, to clear them of a high-profile crime, for example. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are eminently corruptible.

You only have to look at how it is common practice for pharmaceutical companies to invite doctors to exotic locations for all-inclusive "conference holidays" to unveil a new drug product, the doctors are wined and dined for free, and when they get home they start recommending this new, often bad, drug to their patients. I wouldn't trust a doctor unless I'd had appointments with him for at least six months, would never take a new untested drug offered by a doctor and I certainly wouldn't take a doctors word in a violent crime case situated in the middle of the russian mob territory, after meeting the doctor for five minutes and reading his short report about non-existent potholes in the road.

You completely missed the point of the discussion. The other poster said that no way the doctor could have known what happened to this kid and that he should have never told the family that no way was the injuries caused by a motorcycle wreck. M point simply was that doctors are very qualified to opine as to what caused injuries and if they told the family that, he perhaps saw something that strongly supported his opinion.

BTW, stark II has gotten very restrictive on drug companies. Reps are not even supposed to take lunch into the offices any more. Don't get me started about pharmaceutical and medical device companies. I used to represent them. Now I sue them.

Don't forget that the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident. The doctor hired by the family, much later, possibly saw things differently.

Would you please show proof of where the ER medical staff declared it a motorbike accident? I'd be interested to know how you got that documented information and I didn't.

Interesting. Steve, you are one twisted, messed up dude if you made that up for God knows what reason. Why in the world would anyone without a personality disorder feel the need to make up such facts when they have absolutely no relation to the incident. So, what's the source Steve.

[ManInSurat]

Interesting. Steve, you are one twisted, messed up dude if you made that up for God knows what reason. Why in the world would anyone without a personality disorder feel the need to make up such facts when they have absolutely no relation to the incident. So, what's the source Steve.

Calm down mate. Read my previous post, above yours, about the Gold Coast article. It's clearly linked in the last line of the original post and is the source of the whole article here.

It uses the words "emergency authorities were sure Daniel's injuries fitted those of an accident" granted it mensions nothing about documentation and to be fair neither does Steve.

Mrs Ketley did also mention in a previous post that the doctor currently treating Daniel hired after he came home (as I understand it) was the one who proferred the possibility of there being another explanation for Daniel's injuries.

"Later that week our doctor who was caring for him at home approached me and asked me if I had considered that Daniel's injuries were not due to a motorcycle accident. That in his

experience with forensics, he was clearly beaten with a bat or an object of the sort and that the injuries were caused to cause permanent damage or even death."

Maybe you can accuse him of taking artistic lisence, but I'm sure Steve meant no malice and your talk of personality disorders is a bit uncalled for. It imples all people with personality disorders make up facts.

Edited June 24, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ttelise]

Interesting. Steve, you are one twisted, messed up dude if you made that up for God knows what reason. Why in the world would anyone without a personality disorder feel the need to make up such facts when they have absolutely no relation to the incident. So, what's the source Steve.

Calm down mate. Read my previous post, above yours, about the Gold Coast article. It's clearly linked in the last line of the original post and is the source of the whole article here.

It uses the words "emergency authorities were sure Daniel's injuries fitted those of an accident" granted it mensions nothing about documentation and that is taking artistic lisence, but I'm sure they meant no malice.

Well if article says, my apologies. Just think with family here people should be objective and not make <deleted> up to suit personal feelings.

Seems like family would know what was said and I would agree with families statement they would prefer it to be a motorcycle accident. Easier to digest and no way to sue and receive compensation from perpetrators in Thailand anyway.

Not fired up, but amazed and amused by people here.

[ManInSurat]

Interesting. Steve, you are one twisted, messed up dude if you made that up for God knows what reason. Why in the world would anyone without a personality disorder feel the need to make up such facts when they have absolutely no relation to the incident. So, what's the source Steve.

Calm down mate. Read my previous post, above yours, about the Gold Coast article. It's clearly linked in the last line of the original post and is the source of the whole article here.

It uses the words "emergency authorities were sure Daniel's injuries fitted those of an accident" granted it mensions nothing about documentation and that is taking artistic lisence, but I'm sure they meant no malice.

Well if article says, my apologies. Just think with family here people should be objective and not make <deleted> up to suit personal feelings.

Seems like family would know what was said and I would agree with families statement they would prefer it to be a motorcycle accident. Easier to digest and no way to sue and receive compensation from perpetrators in Thailand anyway.

Not fired up, but amazed and amused by people here.

No worries mate. Can totally see where you're coming from and some people should just stay quiet and resist that urge to be inflammatory or the thread clown, there's a time an place for that and that's not here.

We should just do all we can to support Daniel at this time as there's nothing we're going to be able to do to help solve a case, unless we witnessed it.

[moonbarman]

Secondary issue.......what's this Facebook fund all about? Was this guy in Thailand without travel insurance?????

I'm not judging him as I can't deduce if he was or not, however anyone traveling to Thailand without insurance is a nutter.

Perhaps you didn't read:

Mr Ketley has lived in Phuket with his parents for the past three years and is a full-time muay thai boxer training with the Sumalee Boxing Gym in Thalang.

But he should have had accident insurance. It's very inexpensive from local banks...

Agree totally but surely being a professional muay thai fighter he would have decent health insurance anyway.