pipo1000 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. In my country's laws bail is not an option for CONVICTED fellons as well for accused on terrorism charges. Edited June 22, 2012 by pipo1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GentlemanJim Posted June 22, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2012 It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. You never ever disappoint 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackspratt Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. I think you will find where such laws/funds exist, they apply to people who are awaiting trial - not to those who have been convicted and sentenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKvampire Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Ministry of "Justice"? surely thats a contradiction? Edited June 22, 2012 by KKvampire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal. Go back and check your country's laws again about bail... For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimamey Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 How about they carve off anything north of Korat and declare it as the semi autonomous region of Northern Thailand. It can be responsible for collecting its own taxes and budgets and can hail Kaiser Thaksin as its leader I don't know where you live but I think some of us north of Korat would disagree with your idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KKvampire Posted June 22, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. You never ever disappoint Yes he doesnt. a sort of a Falang version of Jatuporn , talks without the brain's engagement Edited June 22, 2012 by KKvampire 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. You never ever disappoint You're welcome. Note that the above is not a political statement. The justice fund is available for all and exists for a very good reason. In this case it is being used for red shirts so there is the usual outrage expressed here. But believing that everyone should have the right to bail won't make me any friends on TVF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini81 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 How can it be legal, and how can it be justified. Can any of the normal 'red crowd' justify or explain this one for us?. I know having had this discussion on previous occasions in similar cases, tlansford will give it a good go. Somebody give him a nudge. He has already told us this is normal in all countries...though 13 people plus a huge amount of millions=graft indeed. Funny how in the article, they couldn't reply at the question about what if the convicts fail to turn up. This is only standard in banana republics, if that is where you hail from then maybe it makes sense to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiOats Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Has there been any outrage over this nonsense from Thai citizens yet? Surely this is a little more than a mai pen rai issue? I'm sure the Democrats will bring up the arguments against this in their rallies and channels. Of course, the government and Pro-government will just complain that the Democrats should just shut up and let the government do whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal. It looks that you forgot that the red shirts were considered terrorists, and that I've never seen a terrorist allowed bail.Of course that doesn't include the laughing stock of the world,Thailand is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiOats Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. You never ever disappoint You're welcome. Note that the above is not a political statement. The justice fund is available for all and exists for a very good reason. In this case it is being used for red shirts so there is the usual outrage expressed here. But believing that everyone should have the right to bail won't make me any friends on TVF. Oh how I hope you use all your sense and logic in everything else in life. I hope someone burns down your house next time and then be granted bail and your argument would be "it's okay.. they are poor, they have the right to be bailed out". Or do you not believe in morals, which I am convinced you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Let's play the ball not the player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. You never ever disappoint You're welcome. Note that the above is not a political statement. The justice fund is available for all and exists for a very good reason. In this case it is being used for red shirts so there is the usual outrage expressed here. But believing that everyone should have the right to bail won't make me any friends on TVF. Oh how I hope you use all your sense and logic in everything else in life. I hope someone burns down your house next time and then be granted bail and your argument would be "it's okay.. they are poor, they have the right to be bailed out". Or do you not believe in morals, which I am convinced you are not. People have the right to bail. Basta. If that doesn't appeal to you then you do not need to live in a free society. Bail is granted or not granted and that is a process. It varies a bit from country to country. But again, most countries, and probably yours, has a means to allow poor people to post bail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. You never ever disappoint You're welcome. Note that the above is not a political statement. The justice fund is available for all and exists for a very good reason. In this case it is being used for red shirts so there is the usual outrage expressed here. But believing that everyone should have the right to bail won't make me any friends on TVF. Probably there are at least three previous topics discussing some or all of this, maybe more. Start reading here, 2010-08-08: "Many red shirts 'abandoned' by their leaders: human rights activist" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod711 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Rest assured, if the democrats were doing something like this, Bangkok would be in flames. This is a travesty, the government using the peoples money to free convicted criminals who acted on the instructions of MPs that are under investigation. This is too much for me, now I'm thoroughly convinced that this country is a bad joke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Back in Nov 2010 the Justice fund offered up 1 million to bail 4 redshirts who had been detained for an 'alleged offence'. The key issue here is 'alleged', ie the individuals had not been tried or convicted. I find this case very unusual and difficult to comprehend. Bail is offered to people that do not pose a flight risk and that are at risk of losing substantial assets if they do so. The people in this case now wish to appeal, but have already been convicted AND sentenced to 20 years in prison each. This is a serious crime. All of them are entitled to appeal, but to offer bail to people who know they are on 20 years in the slammer and literally neither they nor their families have anything to lose should they do a runner is just madness. I doubt this decision would have been made elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiOats Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) People have the right to bail. Basta. If that doesn't appeal to you then you do not need to live in a free society. Bail is granted or not granted and that is a process. It varies a bit from country to country. But again, most countries, and probably yours, has a means to allow poor people to post bail. Only if they are responsible for their own bail. Now the government is seeking bail for their own supporters which is something I do not condone. However, if you ask me personally, I'd do away with the bail system. Money doesn't absolve everything, especially crimes. If you don't want to be thrown in jail, don't commit the crimes. Edited June 22, 2012 by ThaiOats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 People have the right to bail. Basta. If that doesn't appeal to you then you do not need to live in a free society. Bail is granted or not granted and that is a process. It varies a bit from country to country. But again, most countries, and probably yours, has a means to allow poor people to post bail. Only if they are responsible for their own bail. Now the government is seeking bail for their own supporters which is something I do not condone. However, if you ask me personally, I'd do away with the bail system. Money doesn't absolve everything, especially crimes. If you don't want to be thrown in jail, don't commit the crimes. And if you are charged with a crime that you didn't commit, should you still be thrown in jail without the chance of bail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 basically this means the government overrules the court and releases them. that bail thing is nonsense take out the money from the left pocket and put it in the right pocket. and when they get sentenced to jail terms they get amnesty. Another step in the direction of dictatorship. It completes the circle, the snake swallows its own tail. If you are a card-carrying member of the gang you will be taken care of no matter what. State-sanctioned thugs commanded by fallacious lizards, all bowing to the great one. Non-members have their home addresses distributed to the licensed thugs. Eventually the outrageousness becomes so normal it is unnoticed like breathing. Like those farmers in North Korea who are starving to death but they make sure the portrait of the great Leader is kept hanging straight on the wall even as they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiOats Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) People have the right to bail. Basta. If that doesn't appeal to you then you do not need to live in a free society. Bail is granted or not granted and that is a process. It varies a bit from country to country. But again, most countries, and probably yours, has a means to allow poor people to post bail. Only if they are responsible for their own bail. Now the government is seeking bail for their own supporters which is something I do not condone. However, if you ask me personally, I'd do away with the bail system. Money doesn't absolve everything, especially crimes. If you don't want to be thrown in jail, don't commit the crimes. And if you are charged with a crime that you didn't commit, should you still be thrown in jail without the chance of bail? There has to be something else besides using money is what I'm trying to get at in which 'bail' is defined as using money as collateral. What else can help guarantee that you won't commit or be wrongly charged for committing a crime, in which it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. Edited June 22, 2012 by ThaiOats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 People have the right to bail. Basta. If that doesn't appeal to you then you do not need to live in a free society. Bail is granted or not granted and that is a process. It varies a bit from country to country. But again, most countries, and probably yours, has a means to allow poor people to post bail. Only if they are responsible for their own bail. Now the government is seeking bail for their own supporters which is something I do not condone. However, if you ask me personally, I'd do away with the bail system. Money doesn't absolve everything, especially crimes. If you don't want to be thrown in jail, don't commit the crimes. And if you are charged with a crime that you didn't commit, should you still be thrown in jail without the chance of bail? I think 99% of the inmates are there for a crime they didn't commit, in their opinion. Do you suggest they all get bail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Justice Minister Pracha said he had authorised his ministry to put up the bail bond. He refused to comment on accountability on the taxpayer's money if the 13 jumped bail. The cynic in me doesn't find it difficult to believe k. Thaksin, in one of his motivational phone-ins to the cabinet suggested that this would be a good idea to restore some confidence in his dedication to the 'common cause' (i.e. get me back pardoned, restored, rich again). Keep an eye on red-shirt broadcasts, soon it may be k. Thaksin paid for this out of his own wallet forgoing shopping in Paris for at least a week. Edited June 22, 2012 by rubl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 People have the right to bail. Basta. If that doesn't appeal to you then you do not need to live in a free society. Bail is granted or not granted and that is a process. It varies a bit from country to country. But again, most countries, and probably yours, has a means to allow poor people to post bail. Only if they are responsible for their own bail. Now the government is seeking bail for their own supporters which is something I do not condone. However, if you ask me personally, I'd do away with the bail system. Money doesn't absolve everything, especially crimes. If you don't want to be thrown in jail, don't commit the crimes. And if you are charged with a crime that you didn't commit, should you still be thrown in jail without the chance of bail? There has to be something else besides using money is what I'm trying to get at in which 'bail' is defined as using money as collateral. What else can help guarantee that you won't commit or be wrongly charged for committing a crime, in which it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. Yes ... agreed. I think in most countries, the "justice fund" would be used to provide legal representation for poor people, not bail. Bail is usually set at a level that fits the crime and also fits the person's ability to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) It appears that no one posting above recalls that Thailand has a justice fund to be used for people who are not able to post bail. This is the fund (most likely, as the reporting can be a bit sloppy) being used to post bail for these people. It is perfectly normal in most countries to have mechanisms to allow people to post bail (in some way shape or form) who would otherwise not be able to post bail. Check your own country's laws, you'll probably find a similar mechanism. My own country's laws don't allow people who have been convicted of a charge to later post bail on that same charge. I doubt yours does either. Edited June 22, 2012 by lannarebirth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think 99% of the inmates are there for a crime they didn't commit, in their opinion. Do you suggest they all get bail? Being convicted of a crime is different that being charged with a crime. Being charged with a crime means that you are still theoretically innocent, but bail will be set (if it's given at all) based on the likelihood of you having committed the crime based on the current evidence, and the likelihood of you skipping bail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal. Go back and check your country's laws again about bail... For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice. In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think 99% of the inmates are there for a crime they didn't commit, in their opinion. Do you suggest they all get bail? Being convicted of a crime is different that being charged with a crime. Being charged with a crime means that you are still theoretically innocent, but bail will be set (if it's given at all) based on the likelihood of you having committed the crime based on the current evidence, and the likelihood of you skipping bail. So and on which of the grounds that you explained so correctly, do you think that bail would be considered in this case.I'm sure it cant be the lack of clear evidence, neither can it be the unlikelyhood of skipping bail given the known history hereabout of other accused red shirt leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think 99% of the inmates are there for a crime they didn't commit, in their opinion. Do you suggest they all get bail? Being convicted of a crime is different that being charged with a crime. Being charged with a crime means that you are still theoretically innocent, but bail will be set (if it's given at all) based on the likelihood of you having committed the crime based on the current evidence, and the likelihood of you skipping bail. So and on which of the grounds that you explained so correctly, do you think that bail would be considered in this case.I'm sure it cant be the lack of clear evidence, neither can it be the unlikelyhood of skipping bail given the known history hereabout of other accused red shirt leaders. "So and on which of the grounds ... do you think that bail would be considered in this case." None whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It looks like posters forgot the part about the appeal. Go back and check your country's laws again about bail... For those wondering why poor people are given support for their bail, please do some research, there are very good reasons wrt justice. In my country (and yours) convicted felons remain incarcerated pending appeal. Sorry to say it, but a quick search will tell you otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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