Trouble With The Roofers

[Paangjang]

So i bought the lease to a restaurant. The building has always had a palm frond roof. Amongst other things, this is one of the parts i want to renew during the refurbishment. I cleared everything with the or bor tor, then went ahead and got a few quotes. I’m supplying all materials myself. I just want the labor. One guy said 10 days work, 30,000THB on completion. Another guy said 7 days work here, 20,000THB. Finally i chose the team that said complete in 7 days for 25,000THB. They were available sooner than the others and seemed to know what they were talking about.

Anyway we confirmed what quality we wanted and made sure we understood each other clearly. The next day they started. Two Cambodian teenagers and two Burmese rocked up on a saleng. No scaffolding and hardly any tools. They could hardly communicate with me, my girlfriend or each other as they could only speak their own language. I.e two Burmese, two Khmer and no English. I supervised them for the week. It was very difficult to try and get them to stop sleeping, eating, dancing etc and to do some work.

To cut a long story short, after the week was up about a fifth of the work had been completed. What had been completed leaks badly and looks horrendously ugly. I called the boss (Thai) and explained i didn't want them anymore and i would pay them their day rate for the 4 and half days they were present. I thought this was fair. He got angry really fast and said i have to pay half. (12.5K)

I got another contractor to come and have a look. He said that the small amount they have done is laughable and needs to come off and be re-done.

Any advice? Bear in mind i don't really want it to get burned down...

[giddyup]

Has the boss who quoted you for the job been and had a look at what works been done? That might be your first step.

[Paangjang]

Has the boss who quoted you for the job been and had a look at what works been done? That might be your first step.

He's seen it but doesn't seem to care abot the holes. He just gets angry really fast which scares my girlfriend. Says this mess and poor work is our fault for firing his team. I tried to explain that the poor workmanship was done before we asked them to stop He says he's not going to clear the pile of rubbish up either. I accept that and i'll pay someone else to do it. We certainly don't want to pay this crook the money but we're worried about repercussions

[DP25]

So they gave you 4 illegal immigrants who can't talk to you or each other, who have no tools, no supervision, and no idea what they are doing? I think the boss should have to reimburse you for any food or drink you gave them

[canuckamuck]

Find another tough talking Thai or a cop friend and get them to sort it out. You are not being unreasonable, he is just using intimidation because he gets away with it.

[Paangjang]

So they gave you 4 illegal immigrants who can't talk to you or each other, who have no tools, no supervision, and no idea what they are doing? I think the boss should have to reimburse you for any food or drink you gave them

And the materials they damaged and wasted. He called us 15 times today. What to do with angry builders in the Land of Smiles...

[giddyup]

Has the boss who quoted you for the job been and had a look at what works been done? That might be your first step.

He's seen it but doesn't seem to care abot the holes. He just gets angry really fast which scares my girlfriend. Says this mess and poor work is our fault for firing his team. I tried to explain that the poor workmanship was done before we asked them to stop He says he's not going to clear the pile of rubbish up either. I accept that and i'll pay someone else to do it. We certainly don't want to pay this crook the money but we're worried about repercussions

I guess you should have called him to come and look at the work before you fired them. Also it sound like he's using standover tactics to force you to pay. Just offer him what you think is fair and tell him take it or leave it.

[Pseudolus]

I think your concern about a random fire is valid. Get a friendly cop to have a word even if it mean sticking the 12 k in his palm.

[slapout]

Take photos of the mess you have including the roof, have the second contractor document what he has to do to finish the job, his cost for repairing/tearing out of shoddy work. Present copies of same to first contractor with a bill to get the roof back in order, tell him never to set foot on your property again. When he starts the anger display again, tell him you are fileing a copy with an attorney, the local police, station, consumer protection, and possibly the local labor board, then walk away. You may want to do this at a place of your choice, with a couple friends present.

[Paangjang]

Has the boss who quoted you for the job been and had a look at what works been done? That might be your first step.

He's seen it but doesn't seem to care abot the holes. He just gets angry really fast which scares my girlfriend. Says this mess and poor work is our fault for firing his team. I tried to explain that the poor workmanship was done before we asked them to stop He says he's not going to clear the pile of rubbish up either. I accept that and i'll pay someone else to do it. We certainly don't want to pay this crook the money but we're worried about repercussions

I guess you should have called him to come and look at the work before you fired them. Also it sound like he's using standover tactics to force you to pay. Just offer him what you think is fair and tell him take it or leave it.

Even though i feel he should be paying me for the damaged materials, i offered him 5,000THB take it or leave it. He took offense and said Thai people are worth more than that. Im getting a bit peed off with this sh*t. However i don't want any trouble. The building isn't finished yet, half the roof is stripped off and we haven't got it insured yet. I think we'd struggle to get it insured in this current state.

[paulswebb]

We get a lot of bad press in the UK, but there are millions of quality roofs. Find someone who can show you his work and talk to the owner, might cost you a bit more but sounds like you are getting nowhere.

Paul S Webb

Ex roofing contractor

[Paangjang]

I think your concern about a random fire is valid. Get a friendly cop to have a word even if it mean sticking the 12 k in his palm.

Take photos of the mess you have including the roof, have the second contractor document what he has to do to finish the job, his cost for repairing/tearing out of shoddy work. Present copies of same to first contractor with a bill to get the roof back in order, tell him never to set foot on your property again. When he starts the anger display again, tell him you are fileing a copy with an attorney, the local police, station, consumer protection, and possibly the local labor board, then walk away. You may want to do this at a place of your choice, with a couple friends present.

These are both options my business partner overseas suggested. Well worth considering but not sure if either will work. You know what some of these idiots are like. I have visions of this guy drunk with his friends, feeling he's lost face then setting light to the place.

[dave111223]

Even though i feel he should be paying me for the damaged materials, i offered him 5,000THB take it or leave it. He took offense and said Thai people are worth more than that. Im getting a bit peed off with this sh*t. However i don't want any trouble. The building isn't finished yet, half the roof is stripped off and we haven't got it insured yet. I think we'd struggle to get it insured in this current state.

Our commercial building insurance (which covers fire and theft of equipment etc...) did not require the building to be inspected...the insurance company has never visited the building. I would suggest getting some insurance right away. Our 3million baht building insurance policy is very cheap in my opinion (something like 6000 a year). It would probably just take a couple of phone calls and you could be insured within the next couple of days.

Also you can get a 4 camera CCTV system for less than 20K...might be a worth while investment...

[DP25]

Even though i feel he should be paying me for the damaged materials, i offered him 5,000THB take it or leave it. He took offense and said Thai people are worth more than that.

Well, you didn't get any Thai people working for you...

[Pseudolus]

"He took offense and said Thai people are worth more than that."

I hope you pointed out that no Thai people were involved apart from the loudmouthed jerkstaning in front of you. Fact is, the slave boys need to be paid. My guess 100 - 150 baht a day. Either negotiate with him a price he is happy with (and get a Thai person to do that); give him the opportunity to finish the job properly but only pay him when finished and you are happy (the full amount). The problem will always be that as a thai, he will know nastier, more powerful people than you and I guess you will be wanting some licenses soon....either way make sure he is happy as fern fronds burn very well when dry.

[Paangjang]

Even though i feel he should be paying me for the damaged materials, i offered him 5,000THB take it or leave it. He took offense and said Thai people are worth more than that.

Well, you didn't get any Thai people working for you...

Exactly, i know this but he feels i owe him the money and im taking the p*ss out of him by offering him 5000THB. I think im being more than reasonable. I've got a building full of building rubbish, damaged materials, half an origional roof, an open area and a joke of a whatever it is these kids did.

[edwinchester]

The ones you have to worry about are not those that go off like this idiot at the drop of a hat.

He is very likely using illegal labour so will not want any attention drawn to his operation.

Next time you see him make him know the 5k is a final offer take it or leave it.

If you can have a cop standing in the background even better.

Shame if you lived in Kanchanaburi I could recommend a great team.

Keep looking they do exist or maybe when you do see nice roof stop and ask who did it.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[soi41]

Tomorrow morning you send your wife (alone) down to the local copshop. Let her explain your problems to some midranking policeofficer. Offer to pay 5400 (4,5 days x 4 persons x new minimumwage) + 2000 to the police for helping you out ! The police then calls the guy and tell him if he wants his money, he has to come to the policestation NOW to get it. Your wife will get it right, especially if she agrees, that most farangs are no good. Way for the roofer to save face. Big wai's all around, end of story.

Your wife can ask your newfound policefriend to keep an eye on your place, so nothing happens!

Fair?? No, but that is the way to do it here.

[Sharp]

We get a lot of bad press in the UK, but there are millions of quality roofs. Find someone who can show you his work and talk to the owner, might cost you a bit more but sounds like you are getting nowhere.

Paul S Webb

Ex roofing contractor

We gets lot of bad press in the uK ......... Am I missing something ....

[pipo1000]

You don't say where you are located, but every cityhall in Thailand has and Office of the board of consumer protection.

If you were in Pattaya I could give you directions, since they have done a excelent job for me in several cases concerning construction issues.Contractors, and even big nationwide companies who didn't agree or responded to my complaints for months in line, jumped and cleared everything within days or even hours after the lawyer from the organisation contacted them.

I would assume that their office in your area has the same powers.

[MrRealDeal]

Give them half it's not like it's a lot of money ayhow , then learn the lesson , you are partially to blame for not looking into the contractor. OR .... Let them finish , it will take 2.5 weeks but you still pay what you agreed on and the roof is done.

EVERYTIME I have contractors they drive me crazy , like you said sleeping , wasting time , ect ..... BUT eventually they get the job done at a great price and I pay someone else by the day for 2 or 3 days to finsih up what they didnt do so well , I dont whine moan and complain about it and make a big deal. Why ? Because paying 2-3000 usd for a 12,000 job is a pretty good deal even if I have to pay some kid 20 bucks to finish it off at the end.

5000 baht is nothing dude take your loss and move on ..... if you get a decent contractor you still save thousands of dollars in the end.

Your obvious mistake was supervising them ...... If you want to be a roofing supervisor .... make your own company. You have no bisness telling a contractor how to run his workers , you contract for a certian price and work and how he gets it done is not your bisness , ....... yeah it will take a little longer most of the time just like everywhere . My guess is you tried to be a supervisor with pretty much zero knowledge of roofing or construction at all but just wanted to tell everyone to go to work bla bla bla ..... of course they did a lousy job , on purpose because you annoyed them

[Paangjang]

Give them half it's not like it's a lot of money ayhow , then learn the lesson , you are partially to blame for not looking into the contractor. OR .... Let them finish , it will take 2.5 weeks but you still pay what you agreed on and the roof is done.

EVERYTIME I have contractors they drive me crazy , like you said sleeping , wasting time , ect ..... BUT eventually they get the job done at a great price and I pay someone else by the day for 2 or 3 days to finsih up what they didnt do so well , I dont whine moan and complain about it and make a big deal. Why ? Because paying 2-3000 usd for a 12,000 job is a pretty good deal even if I have to pay some kid 20 bucks to finish it off at the end.

5000 baht is nothing dude take your loss and move on ..... if you get a decent contractor you still save thousands of dollars in the end.

Your obvious mistake was supervising them ...... If you want to be a roofing supervisor .... make your own company. You have no bisness telling a contractor how to run his workers , you contract for a certian price and work and how he gets it done is not your bisness , ....... yeah it will take a little longer most of the time just like everywhere . My guess is you tried to be a supervisor with pretty much zero knowledge of roofing or construction at all but just wanted to tell everyone to go to work bla bla bla ..... of course they did a lousy job , on purpose because you annoyed them

Whatever, what a dumb post. Its my fault they couldn't speak to each other, have any tools or equipment? Nobody did a lousy job on purpose, they just didn't have any experience. Anyway thanks for your negative bitter post. There seems to be a lot of weirdo expats lurking in the General topics. Oh and nice spelling

[Paangjang]

Thanks for all the posts (apart from the weirdo blaming everything on me???) , a lot of good advise. The problem has now been solved. We didn't have to pay them for the work they did and the contractor has calmed down. We do however have to replace most of the work they did. Ahh well, TIT. Problem solved.

[jinjinswing]

Do as slapout recommends, if you have made no down payment on materials find out there worth, when you have that chat with a couple of buddies near by pay him plus a little extra for them, if ones a police guy all good and better.

Copys of pictures and an independent report form a building professional like an architect should be handed to him at the same time.

This is how its done in a civilized world, refuse to pay anymore that what you want to offer and if he keeps the charade up tell him you will counter sue for clean up, extra costs to finish the job and loss of income due to the job taking longer to complete.

I have learned that you need to be assertive here if you want action otherwise you will get walked all over, stay clam be polite and assertive at the same time, if you cant do it hire that architect to do it for you.