Court Postpones Verdict On Teen Driver: Don Muang Tollway Accident

[chotthee]

Nobody will learn unless this girl and her parents pay for the deaths of all the others. She needs to be banged up for a suitable period of time to make amends. I understand she was a juvenile blah blah, but she has as yet shown no remorse. There should be no out of court settlement, 5-10 years at least. The court is passing the buck and avoiding it's responsibilities. This is criminal, not civil.

Hyperthetical question Jim. If you had a daughter who had done what the girl in question had done would you as her parent let her go to a Thai jail and be banged up for a 5 to 10 stretch or would you make an out of court settlement as the victims relatives have said they were open to an out of court settlement.?.

That's the way it is in Thailand Jim and no matter what we say or think it's how it is and I don't see things a changing for quite some time.

Money talks.!

As for the girl showing no remorse or giving an apology, how do we know how she feels, she could still be in a state of shock and under treatment for what she's done.

Thing is we don't know how she feels do we but I would say that if she is any kind of a decent human being, then what she has done will haunt her for the rest of her life.

Just a thought from an alledged forum thug as you called me recently.

HTH.

Edit.

As for the posts above mine, I just love the hang em high brigade putting Thailands wrongs to rights, the OP's title of thread mentioned ACCIDENT in case any one missed it.

Here's a "hyper-thetical" question for you, what if you daughter had been killed by this girl in question; would you still be towing the same line?

In Thailand, money talks, poor people walks.

[MB1]

I'm going to bow out for now gents and ladies if participating but before I go I would just like to reiterate what I have been trying to say and prick peoples consience.

If faced with the prospect of having one of your siblings incarcerated in a Thai prison, if you could afford to pay for them not to go to a Thai prison would you do so.?

I for one hold my hand up and will say I would pay, it's acceptable in Thailand so why would I want to see one I love go to prison if I can afford to pay for her freedom for causing a traffic accident.

The girl in question never meant to kill anybody it was an accident.

[MB1]

Nobody will learn unless this girl and her parents pay for the deaths of all the others. She needs to be banged up for a suitable period of time to make amends. I understand she was a juvenile blah blah, but she has as yet shown no remorse. There should be no out of court settlement, 5-10 years at least. The court is passing the buck and avoiding it's responsibilities. This is criminal, not civil.

Hyperthetical question Jim. If you had a daughter who had done what the girl in question had done would you as her parent let her go to a Thai jail and be banged up for a 5 to 10 stretch or would you make an out of court settlement as the victims relatives have said they were open to an out of court settlement.?.

That's the way it is in Thailand Jim and no matter what we say or think it's how it is and I don't see things a changing for quite some time.

Money talks.!

As for the girl showing no remorse or giving an apology, how do we know how she feels, she could still be in a state of shock and under treatment for what she's done.

Thing is we don't know how she feels do we but I would say that if she is any kind of a decent human being, then what she has done will haunt her for the rest of her life.

Just a thought from an alledged forum thug as you called me recently.

HTH.

Edit.

As for the posts above mine, I just love the hang em high brigade putting Thailands wrongs to rights, the OP's title of thread mentioned ACCIDENT in case any one missed it.

Here's a "hyper-thetical" question for you, what if you daughter had been killed by this girl in question; would you still be towing the same line?

Already answered same question. Have a read if you please.

HTH.

[garrya]

Nobody will learn unless this girl and her parents pay for the deaths of all the others. She needs to be banged up for a suitable period of time to make amends. I understand she was a juvenile blah blah, but she has as yet shown no remorse. There should be no out of court settlement, 5-10 years at least. The court is passing the buck and avoiding it's responsibilities. This is criminal, not civil.

Hyperthetical question Jim. If you had a daughter who had done what the girl in question had done would you as her parent let her go to a Thai jail and be banged up for a 5 to 10 stretch or would you make an out of court settlement as the victims relatives have said they were open to an out of court settlement.?.

That's the way it is in Thailand Jim and no matter what we say or think it's how it is and I don't see things a changing for quite some time.

Money talks.!

As for the girl showing no remorse or giving an apology, how do we know how she feels, she could still be in a state of shock and under treatment for what she's done.

Thing is we don't know how she feels do we but I would say that if she is any kind of a decent human being, then what she has done will haunt her for the rest of her life.

Just a thought from an alledged forum thug as you called me recently.

HTH.

Edit.

As for the posts above mine, I just love the hang em high brigade putting Thailands wrongs to rights, the OP's title of thread mentioned ACCIDENT in case any one missed it.

Hyperthetical question MB1: If YOU had a daughter who was DEAD because an unlicensed, underaged and reckless driver took her life would you take the money in place of justice? Would you still be worried about the living girl's state of mind and welfare as much as you seem to be now?

I'd want justice western style but we are talking TIT, but I wouldn't want someone to suffer in a Thai Jail for 5 to ten years because of an accident they can't afford to pay their way out of and thats the way it works in Thailand, and if you can afford to pay your way out then thats the way it is also. By the way the key word is ACCIDENT.

And you if you could afford it, would you let your daughter rot in a Thai jail for 5 to 10 or would you compensate the relatives who it seems are willing to accept compensation.?

As for accepting money, no I have western values not Thai but I would allow them to give money to a charity of my choice. I'd never live with myself knowing I took money as compensation.

Some Thai's taking money as compensation seem to do this as a way of life, it seems a part of their culture and whether you or I like it until the government change things we are not going to change it.

HTH.

You have no values, sorry, but strange logic that incites anger among ordinary people. You should stop causing this mess around here.

[Crushdepth]

I'm going to bow out for now gents and ladies if participating but before I go I would just like to reiterate what I have been trying to say and prick peoples consience.

If faced with the prospect of having one of your siblings incarcerated in a Thai prison, if you could afford to pay for them not to go to a Thai prison would you do so.?

I for one hold my hand up and will say I would pay, it's acceptable in Thailand so why would I want to see one I love go to prison if I can afford to pay for her freedom for causing a traffic accident.

The girl in question never meant to kill anybody it was an accident.

But she did. She killed 9 people. Unlicensed, underaged, talking on her phone and speeding. If she goes unpunished, where is the incentive for others to follow the law?

[chotthee]

And if a poor unlicensed teenaged driver from a rural village

was responsible for the deaths of 9 rich elite people, would this

poor person be given the same leniency?

You KNOW the answer to that question.

Or if a Farang were to be the under-age driver?

[GentlemanJim]

This is outrageous. This is criminal case. That means state verses the defendant. We can safely conclude that the Judge has been bought off, or had pressure applied by others who have been bought off. The Family of the deceased are now being pressured to put a price on the life of their loved one, and the stupid little girl will be killing others on the road in a week.

Where are the demonstrations about this? Where is the outrage? Where are the news paper reports attacking this? Disgusting.

Here we go blah blah blah blah,"the stupid little girl will be killing others in a week".

Why don't you start the demonstration eh and see how far it gets you but make sure you have a work permit.

When are people going to realise that TIT and we as outsiders are not going to change the way things are in Thailand.

Yes we can change some things. My kids are always in proper child seats in the car, the entire family now wear seatbealts as a matter of course when in a car, including the MIL. Those in the family that drive on bikes always wear helmets now. Nobody in the family drives a car or bike and uses a mobile at the same time. And you know, it spreads, those that sit in cars and drive with my sisters in law now replicate the safety behaviour.

If you believe you cannot change anything you are absolutely correct.

Can't beat the perfect law abiding family Jim can we, well when their with you anyway.I'd love to see em though once their out of your sight.

I've been their Jim, seen it and done it but if you really think for one moment that their as perfect when your not there then your IMO seriously deluded.Old English saying."Out of sight out of mind".

Let me know what kind of rod you rule em with, my guess is it's an iron one.

How I raise my family is none of your business, but with two very nice successful adult sons and two young well behaved happy children I will stick to whatever method I have ok! You keep your own sayings and your own standards. Another old English saying "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole cart.........", your standards and experiences apply to you, not to others.

Edited June 23, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Thaddeus]

The girl in question never meant to kill anybody it was an accident.

I pigeon flying in to your windscreen could cause an accident.

Driving like an irresponsible idiot negates the word accident.

[otherstuff1957]

When he was in high school, one of my nephews started selling marijuana - to fund his own usage. When my sister and her husband found out, they told him to stop & when he didn't, they turned him into the police.

A few days in the local jail made enough of an impression on him to change his ways. He is now in his mid-twenties and is a successful, law-abiding professional.

I would like to see a few "hi-so' Thai parents have the integrity to do the same for their wayward children... but I'm not holding my breath!

[hanuman2543]

Thailands double standard justice system at its best. She will walk away from this by giving her a slap on the wrist. When Thai people will realize that this is what you get when corruption is rampant and saving face is so important? The rich and powerful will get away with everything and little Somchai has to deal with that.

[hanuman2543]

BY the way: Why isn't the father held responsible for giving access to the car?

[Credo]

I don't believe the car belonged to the father.

The slap on her wrist is a slap in the face of the victims and their families.

[richard_smith237]

Is one of the responsibities of the legal system to judge and punish in such a way to ensure there is no reoccurrence of similar events? Thus protecting society...

Judgement and punishment should be applied for those responsible. Compensation should be paid not as part of punishment but as something beyond any sentence.

The system in Thailand is flawed, no, broken. Money sways the balance of justice and as a consequence society does not learn, has no concept of consequence and is free to flagrantly disregard laws society has placed upon itself for its own protection.

If it was my child she'd never be allowed near a car until legally responsible for herself. That said, given these tragic circumstances, of course I would do all I can to minimise the impact on the rest of her life while ensuring she is fully conscious of the devistation her mistakes caused.

This broken aspect of society can only fix itself. I see measures of Thailands development where this is slowly occurring. The publicity this case has received is and example of such development, slow and ineffectual, and as wrong as it seems....

[thaicbr]

Before I answer that I will say my daughter would not be driving unlicensed and that nobody in my family would loan her car if she was not qualified to drive.

In answer to your question if she caused an accident like this then she would be left with the consequences.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Easy saying what you say from behind your keyboard anonamously but if actually faced with the prospect of your daughter being banged up in a Thai jail for 5 to 10 years I suspect you and many parents of their own flesh and blood would take the non jail option if able to afford and wouldn't see their young daughter go to jail and probably ruin her life.

That's the way it is and not just Thai.

She was foolish and an accident happened but I'm pretty sure she didn't mean it to happen.

The problem is it should be the court who decides NOT the parents. The parents helped cause it to happen in the 1st place. I think the problem here is that money talks. And there do not seem to be community service options in the legal system. My belief is she did not mean to have the accident BUT she and her family SHOULD be held accountable.

This could be monetary compensation and community work rather than a jail sentence.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Pseudolus]

BY the way: Why isn't the father held responsible for giving access to the car?

ummmm do you know who he is? who is brother is? who his wife is?

[hanuman2543]

BY the way: Why isn't the father held responsible for giving access to the car?

ummmm do you know who he is? who is brother is? who his wife is?

Yes I know and it was a rethorical question.

[zakk9]

What I am actually trying to do Luckylew is to get people to question their consience

It's fine for the hang em high brigade to post away and say bang em up for 10 years but if they were truly faced with that happening to one of their flesh and blood would they take an alternative if offered.

Food for thought eh.?.

<deleted>! Thailand has laws and they should be followed by anybody. If they don't, theyhave to face the concequences. If it's my child or somebody else's is totally uninteresting, but some people do try to raise their children to respect the laws. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, this is a typical example of how rich people are treated differently from the poor. Poor people here easily get 10 years in the slammer for minor offences. If rich people here had to go to jail too, the legal system would possibly have gotten a long needed reform.

[rixalex]

In the same way as we shouldn't allow victims or the family of victims to decide on the punishment of the culprit (as they obviously have an emotional involvement and laws should not be based on emotion), we should not allow the culprit or the family of the culprit to decide punishment either.

The question MB1 isn't would you not also do all you could to keep your daughter out of jail, the question is should parents be in a position to influence such matters by throwing around some money? The answer for me is no and just because that might be the way things work here, doesn't make it right and doesn't mean one has to argue in its favour, which seems to be what you are doing.

As for the "only an accident, no harm meant" thing, that sort of ideology basically allows for people to act with total irresponsibility and for there to be no consequences from the harm that stupidity inflicts on people who are responsible. A complete nonsense in other words.

[rixalex]

This could be monetary compensation and community work rather than a jail sentence.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Nice idea but i can't see how community work could ever work here, certainly not where the rich are concerned. Imagine a hi-so being ordered to road sweep for a couple of months. They'd just dish out a few back handers and stay at home.

[lensta]

Nobody will learn unless this girl and her parents pay for the deaths of all the others. She needs to be banged up for a suitable period of time to make amends. I understand she was a juvenile blah blah, but she has as yet shown no remorse. There should be no out of court settlement, 5-10 years at least. The court is passing the buck and avoiding it's responsibilities. This is criminal, not civil.

Hyperthetical question Jim. If you had a daughter who had done what the girl in question had done would you as her parent let her go to a Thai jail and be banged up for a 5 to 10 stretch or would you make an out of court settlement as the victims relatives have said they were open to an out of court settlement.?.

That's the way it is in Thailand Jim and no matter what we say or think it's how it is and I don't see things a changing for quite some time.

Money talks.!

As for the girl showing no remorse or giving an apology, how do we know how she feels, she could still be in a state of shock and under treatment for what she's done.

Thing is we don't know how she feels do we but I would say that if she is any kind of a decent human being, then what she has done will haunt her for the rest of her life.

Just a thought from an alledged forum thug as you called me recently.

HTH.

Edit.

As for the posts above mine, I just love the hang em high brigade putting Thailands wrongs to rights, the OP's title of thread mentioned ACCIDENT in case any one missed it.

Well the accident was caused by an unlicensed driver who was speeding and allowed to drive a car by an adult owner.

Someone is responsible, should show some sense of regret, pay compendation and finally do some time because causing 9 deaths is not something you should just be able to throw money at to make go away.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

I agree but I'll throw same question to you. Would you have you daughter banged up for a 5 to ten stretch if you could sort it out another way.?.

Well, I will throw this question to you, if it was your daughter that was killed by this girl, would you

be prepared to accept a cash settlement so the girl didn't have to go to jail?

[EarthAlien]

TIT 1 law for the rich 1 law for the poor

Yeah,.. and not just in LOS,... this rings true in the west also!

[noitom]

A criminal court setting up a "negotiated settlement" in a 9 person vehicular homicide case? Quite preposterous. Makes Thailand look like a failed state.

[MB1]

@jim.

How I raise my family is none of your business, but with two very nice successful adult sons and two young well behaved happy children I will stick to whatever method I have ok! You keep your own sayings and your own standards. Another old English saying "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole cart.........", your standards and experiences apply to you, not to others.

Well don't tell me then Jim how you raise your family, remember car seats, MIL, MC helmets mobile phones and seatbelts.

You do remember a previous post in this topic do you not,where you mentioned what I'm saying do you not.

This thread and some of the replys by you amd others have confirmed IMO what I've felt for some time on other threads, certain people wanting to come across as all PC, slag off the nanny state they come from whilst slagging off the way it is in Thailand and trying to tell them how to run their own country whilst paying Tea Money when it suits em. Jeez I just love the double standards.

Classic and I just love it. Thanks.

I can't wait to be accepted into the land of baa baa black sheep..... errrrrr Maybe not I'm from Yorkshire and we don't wear wellys we hold em over a cliff.

[Mosha]

Part of the discussion has centered on the ethics of paying financial compensation to the families of the victims versus sending the young lady (criminal) away to prison for a long time.

IMHO, the financial awards made by out of court settlements are, by western standards, rather ridiculous. Someone mentioned B100,000 as the going rate. That's two thousand pounds sterling or approximately three thousand dollars plus. Not a lot for a life regardless of social status. Frankly a bloody insult.

Since this family is a wealthy "Na" family, they obviously have ample funds and properties etc. The family should be made to suffer financially by rewarding all the victim's families substantial sums in the millions of baht. They probably have businesses and houses and cars that can be sold to pay this compensation.

Since 9 people have lost their lives due to the criminal negligence of this girl AND her parents, it seems only fair to cause them financial suffering. At least this way, the families of victims who were "breadwinners" will be compensated fairly.

I quoted that figure, as I know someone who had to do it, even though the victim was in my view guilty of extreme stupidity. The guy I know, came to a T-junction, it was pitch black. He couldn't see anything coming. so pulled out. The victim was coming along on a motorbike with no working lights.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Mosha

[naboo]

Why isn't the girl named in the report?

To be honest, I thought this whole story had been swept under the carpet.

Regards MB1's comments above, he must be a rich Thai. His logic doesn't conform to Western logic and he believes his family should be above the law. A disgraceful man.

[Mitker]

Nobody will learn unless this girl and her parents pay for the deaths of all the others. She needs to be banged up for a suitable period of time to make amends. I understand she was a juvenile blah blah, but she has as yet shown no remorse. There should be no out of court settlement, 5-10 years at least. The court is passing the buck and avoiding it's responsibilities. This is criminal, not civil.

Hyperthetical question Jim. If you had a daughter who had done what the girl in question had done would you as her parent let her go to a Thai jail and be banged up for a 5 to 10 stretch or would you make an out of court settlement as the victims relatives have said they were open to an out of court settlement.?.

That's the way it is in Thailand Jim and no matter what we say or think it's how it is and I don't see things a changing for quite some time.

Money talks.!

As for the girl showing no remorse or giving an apology, how do we know how she feels, she could still be in a state of shock and under treatment for what she's done.

Thing is we don't know how she feels do we but I would say that if she is any kind of a decent human being, then what she has done will haunt her for the rest of her life.

(...)

Well the accident was caused by an unlicensed driver who was speeding and allowed to drive a car by an adult owner.

Someone is responsible, should show some sense of regret, pay compendation and finally do some time because causing 9 deaths is not something you should just be able to throw money at to make go away.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

I agree but I'll throw same question to you. Would you have you daughter banged up for a 5 to ten stretch if you could sort it out another way.?.

I think anyone facing the judicial consequences of his deeds would prefer to avoid them (in his case), and his relatives too. It doesn't demonstrate much.

The main problem making most posters uncomfortable is this feeling that some category of citizens can escape the justice by being allowed to make a private deal that's easily affordable to them while regular people committing the same would be sent to jail for years. Victims side expressed its disappointment that the court didn't rule. They are open to such a deal but obviously it is not what they (rightly) expected, little choice left at this point.

As for the girl, you may think she's in shock but no apologies since then (we are now in 2012), that's difficult to believe. Instead, once again, most see here the usual arrogance we witness from a certain group (I wouldn't say class since it doesn't need to be wealth-related). That's why the haunting hypothesis seems very remote. As you put it, decency would be necessary. Even her family just did/say the strict minimum, just enough to reach this kind of (no)justice decision.

Brings bad memories of a Mercedes-Benz and, more recently, a Porsche.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Mitker

[GentlemanJim]

@jim.

How I raise my family is none of your business, but with two very nice successful adult sons and two young well behaved happy children I will stick to whatever method I have ok! You keep your own sayings and your own standards. Another old English saying "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole cart.........", your standards and experiences apply to you, not to others.

Well don't tell me then Jim how you raise your family, remember car seats, MIL, MC helmets mobile phones and seatbelts.

You do remember a previous post in this topic do you not,where you mentioned what I'm saying do you not.

This thread and some of the replys by you amd others have confirmed IMO what I've felt for some time on other threads, certain people wanting to come across as all PC, slag off the nanny state they come from whilst slagging off the way it is in Thailand and trying to tell them how to run their own country whilst paying Tea Money when it suits em. Jeez I just love the double standards.

Classic and I just love it. Thanks.

I can't wait to be accepted into the land of baa baa black sheep..... errrrrr Maybe not I'm from Yorkshire and we don't wear wellys we hold em over a cliff.

I thought you said you were leaving the thread. You are starting to display that forum thuggish bully behaviour again. At no point have I questioned YOU. I have questioned your statements and attitudes on this case. You though simply cannot get involved in debate without attacking the other person and making personal insults. That is why you were labelled a forum thug before, and why you are being labeled one again. My family, my children and the way in which we lead our lives are nothing to do with you and why you seem to make a mockery I don't understand. I would have said it was a Yorkshire thing, but knowing many good people from there that would be unfair, it must be an MB1 kind of thing. Do carry on, but my family and the way we conduct ourselves is non of your business...clear?

[MB1]

But mitker the same people who pay tea money for certain things abor tea money for other things. where is the line drawn and who draws it.

[MB1]

@jim.

How I raise my family is none of your business, but with two very nice successful adult sons and two young well behaved happy children I will stick to whatever method I have ok! You keep your own sayings and your own standards. Another old English saying "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole cart.........", your standards and experiences apply to you, not to others.

Well don't tell me then Jim how you raise your family, remember car seats, MIL, MC helmets mobile phones and seatbelts.

You do remember a previous post in this topic do you not,where you mentioned what I'm saying do you not.

This thread and some of the replys by you amd others have confirmed IMO what I've felt for some time on other threads, certain people wanting to come across as all PC, slag off the nanny state they come from whilst slagging off the way it is in Thailand and trying to tell them how to run their own country whilst paying Tea Money when it suits em. Jeez I just love the double standards.

Classic and I just love it. Thanks.

I can't wait to be accepted into the land of baa baa black sheep..... errrrrr Maybe not I'm from Yorkshire and we don't wear wellys we hold em over a cliff.

I thought you said you were leaving the thread. You are starting to display that forum thuggish bully behaviour again. At no point have I questioned YOU. I have questioned your statements and attitudes on this case. You though simply cannot get involved in debate without attacking the other person and making personal insults. That is why you were labelled a forum thug before, and why you are being labeled one again. My family, my children and the way in which we lead our lives are nothing to do with you and why you seem to make a mockery I don't understand. I would have said it was a Yorkshire thing, but knowing many good people from there that would be unfair, it must be an MB1 kind of thing. Do carry on, but my family and the way we conduct ourselves is non of your business...clear?

Jim stop acting like you are and learn I'm not attacking you or a bully, I'm questioning peoples double standards. Have you got me yet.

By the way report me if you don't like what I have to say.

Oh and by the way Jim if anyone is being attacked on this thread it aint you, read the thread again and see how many times I've been attacked but yet remained polite in most replys whilst trying to get a point across about double standards.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MB1

[MB1]

Why isn't the girl named in the report?

To be honest, I thought this whole story had been swept under the carpet.

Regards MB1's comments above, he must be a rich Thai. His logic doesn't conform to Western logic and he believes his family should be above the law. A disgraceful man.

Rich Thai, now that is a classic. Oh and I'm a disgraceful man am I, for not following the sheep like mentality no doubt and for having an opinion that go's against the norm.

Thanks I like that.