Court Postpones Verdict On Teen Driver: Don Muang Tollway Accident

[GentlemanJim]

But mitker the same people who pay tea money for certain things abor tea money for other things. where is the line drawn and who draws it.

I think there is a vast difference between paying 200 baht to the police for riding your own bike without a helmet and deciding that tea money is ok to avoid the deaths of 9 people. There is a vast difference between paying tea money to expedite a government beaurocratic process than believing that tea money should get you out of killing 9 people. The point people are trying to make here MB1 is nothing to do with tea money, do you get it yet? It is to do with the courts of the land failing to fulfil their responsibilities in an objective manner by applying the law equally to all citizens of Thailand. The situation where, on a case involving 9 deaths, the court tells the families of the victims they must negotiate a settlement with the accused is beyond unbelievable. That is nothing to do with tea money, get it?

[GentlemanJim]

@jim.

How I raise my family is none of your business, but with two very nice successful adult sons and two young well behaved happy children I will stick to whatever method I have ok! You keep your own sayings and your own standards. Another old English saying "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole cart.........", your standards and experiences apply to you, not to others.

Well don't tell me then Jim how you raise your family, remember car seats, MIL, MC helmets mobile phones and seatbelts.

You do remember a previous post in this topic do you not,where you mentioned what I'm saying do you not.

This thread and some of the replys by you amd others have confirmed IMO what I've felt for some time on other threads, certain people wanting to come across as all PC, slag off the nanny state they come from whilst slagging off the way it is in Thailand and trying to tell them how to run their own country whilst paying Tea Money when it suits em. Jeez I just love the double standards.

Classic and I just love it. Thanks.

I can't wait to be accepted into the land of baa baa black sheep..... errrrrr Maybe not I'm from Yorkshire and we don't wear wellys we hold em over a cliff.

Do enlighten me.

[Mitker]

But mitker the same people who pay tea money for certain things abor tea money for other things. where is the line drawn and who draws it.

For the line, everyone puts it where he thinks it should be. That's how, at the end of the day, some people earn respect while other are despised.

As for tea money, consistency dictates that one either adopts it or rejects it. No middle ground here.

In fact, tea money/favors/corruption rot a society, regardless of the situation, the individuals or the amount involved. Even the apparently inoffensive side-road little deal with the bib directly brings its (proportionate) part to the general cancer.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Mitker

[MB1]

But mitker the same people who pay tea money for certain things abor tea money for other things. where is the line drawn and who draws it.

I think there is a vast difference between paying 200 baht to the police for riding your own bike without a helmet and deciding that tea money is ok to avoid the deaths of 9 people. There is a vast difference between paying tea money to expedite a government beaurocratic process than believing that tea money should get you out of killing 9 people. The point people are trying to make here MB1 is nothing to do with tea money, do you get it yet? It is to do with the courts of the land failing to fulfil their responsibilities in an objective manner by applying the law equally to all citizens of Thailand. The situation where, on a case involving 9 deaths, the court tells the families of the victims they must negotiate a settlement with the accused is beyond unbelievable. That is nothing to do with tea money, get it?

Corruption starts at the top and go's all the way down to the bottom of Thai society if it's 100 baht or 1 million what's the difference it's still corruption but accepted by Thai society.

Are we going to change it if the Thai government are not....Me think not because we are farang and Thai is Thai.

I accept that but may not like but what can I do.......

[MB1]

But mitker the same people who pay tea money for certain things abor tea money for other things. where is the line drawn and who draws it.

For the line, everyone puts it where he thinks it should be. That's how, at the end of the day, some people earn respect while other are despised.

As for tea money, consistency dictates that one either adopts it or rejects it. No middle ground here.

In fact, tea money/favors/corruption rot a society, regardless of the situation, the individuals or the amount involved. Even the apparently inoffensive side-road little deal with the bib directly brings its part to the general cancer.

Agree with most of what you say but some people change the goal posts when it suits them. Not my imagination but fact.

[MB1]

@jim.

How I raise my family is none of your business, but with two very nice successful adult sons and two young well behaved happy children I will stick to whatever method I have ok! You keep your own sayings and your own standards. Another old English saying "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole cart.........", your standards and experiences apply to you, not to others.

Well don't tell me then Jim how you raise your family, remember car seats, MIL, MC helmets mobile phones and seatbelts.

You do remember a previous post in this topic do you not,where you mentioned what I'm saying do you not.

This thread and some of the replys by you amd others have confirmed IMO what I've felt for some time on other threads, certain people wanting to come across as all PC, slag off the nanny state they come from whilst slagging off the way it is in Thailand and trying to tell them how to run their own country whilst paying Tea Money when it suits em. Jeez I just love the double standards.

Classic and I just love it. Thanks.

I can't wait to be accepted into the land of baa baa black sheep..... errrrrr Maybe not I'm from Yorkshire and we don't wear wellys we hold em over a cliff.

Do enlighten me.

Read the thread Jim maybe post 40 of yours.

[billd766]

Before I answer that I will say my daughter would not be driving unlicensed and that nobody in my family would loan her car if she was not qualified to drive.

In answer to your question if she caused an accident like this then she would be left with the consequences.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Easy saying what you say from behind your keyboard anonamously but if actually faced with the prospect of your daughter being banged up in a Thai jail for 5 to 10 years I suspect you and many parents of their own flesh and blood would take the non jail option if able to afford and wouldn't see their young daughter go to jail and probably ruin her life.

That's the way it is and not just Thai.

She was foolish and an accident happened but I'm pretty sure she didn't mean it to happen.

So you would be happy that by paying some money (how much is a human life worth anyway) that your daughter who has killed 9 people will be able to sleep soundly at home while the families of those who died just get a bucket of money and go away happy.

Would that please you and your daughter?

I know in my heart that there is not enough money in Thailand to replace my wife and my sons mother.

I also know in my soul that justice for 9 people slaughtered by a stupid teenager will never happen either.

She knew as did her parents that she had no licence and was driving and they all probably thought it will never happen to her.

Well it did and 9 families lives were torn apart because of a stupid irresponsible teenager and her equally irresponsible parents who (as many people do in Thailand) that money is the be all and end all and will fix everything.

I am sorry but I forgot to answer your question.

If it were my son YES I would want him to go to jail.

It doesn't mean that I would love him any less because he will always be my son, but one of nthe things I teach my son who is only 7 at the moment is responsibility.

Edited June 23, 2012 by billd766

[apetley]

Going rate last I heard is 100K to the police and 100K to the family, for each death.

And how many on here "TV" pay tea money to the police for a minor offence and accept it but when something serious happens tea money is not acceptable.

Hypocrosy or what.

Oh well I hope the parents who would let their flesh and blood rot in a Thai jail out of a sense of justice feel the love of their siblings when there released, that's if they make it out alive.

My daughter would not be rotting in a Thai jail or any jail for that matter because she would never be in a situation where she drives recklessly with no licence and goes on to kill 9 people. Simple as that.

As for her loving me hopefully she does that because I have taught her what is right and wrong.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[MB1]

Before I answer that I will say my daughter would not be driving unlicensed and that nobody in my family would loan her car if she was not qualified to drive.

In answer to your question if she caused an accident like this then she would be left with the consequences.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Easy saying what you say from behind your keyboard anonamously but if actually faced with the prospect of your daughter being banged up in a Thai jail for 5 to 10 years I suspect you and many parents of their own flesh and blood would take the non jail option if able to afford and wouldn't see their young daughter go to jail and probably ruin her life.

That's the way it is and not just Thai.

She was foolish and an accident happened but I'm pretty sure she didn't mean it to happen.

I think the court has an obligation to reach a verdict and if the verdict is guilty they should impose a penalty. In my opinion they are shirking their duty, what they seem to be saying is throw a lot of money at this and it can go away. An interesting situation would arise if a relative of one of the deceased refused money and insisted on a court imposed penalty. Their was a case settled in Bangkok not long ago where the father of a girl who fell off a bus insisted that the court impose the fine and it was millions of baht.

I'll answer that in a Thaskin kind of way shall I.

The courts might give a verdict and hand out a sentence but anyone with 1 gramme of the old grey matter know that what the courts impose can be got round.

TIT.

[MB1]

Going rate last I heard is 100K to the police and 100K to the family, for each death.

And how many on here "TV" pay tea money to the police for a minor offence and accept it but when something serious happens tea money is not acceptable.

Hypocrosy or what.

Oh well I hope the parents who would let their flesh and blood rot in a Thai jail out of a sense of justice feel the love of their siblings when there released, that's if they make it out alive.

My daughter would not be rotting in a Thai jail or any jail for that matter because she would never be in a situation where she drives recklessly with no licence and goes on to kill 9 people. Simple as that.

As for her loving me hopefully she does that because I have taught her what is right and wrong.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Apetley no disrepect but unless you have 24/7 control then you can't know what is going on 24/7.

A rich millionaires daughter in the Uk was convicted durinig the recent riots, her parents had no clue what she was up to.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MB1

[Smokemachine]

Here's a link to share with you. I think it's the same person. She also leave comments in her own blog. Enjoy the video..

[apetley]

Going rate last I heard is 100K to the police and 100K to the family, for each death.

And how many on here "TV" pay tea money to the police for a minor offence and accept it but when something serious happens tea money is not acceptable.

Hypocrosy or what.

Oh well I hope the parents who would let their flesh and blood rot in a Thai jail out of a sense of justice feel the love of their siblings when there released, that's if they make it out alive.

My daughter would not be rotting in a Thai jail or any jail for that matter because she would never be in a situation where she drives recklessly with no licence and goes on to kill 9 people. Simple as that.

As for her loving me hopefully she does that because I have taught her what is right and wrong.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Apetley no disrepect but unless you have 24/7 control then you can't know what is going on 24/7.

A rich millionaires daughter in the Uk was convicted durinig the recent riots, her parents had no clue what she was up to.

Agree I can't watch her all the time but then again I don't need to as I trust her to do the right thing.

I do not know of the convicted rich girl in the UK riots but it seems her connection to wealth couldn't buy her freedom as opposed to the subject of this topic.

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[barefoot1988]

"The victims' relatives said they were disappointed by court's decision because they wanted the teenager to be punished for her offences. They said they were still waiting for an apology from the girl and said they were open to an outofcourt settlement as suggested."

im disappointed to hear that. its money after all isnt it?

but again i had to understand that they are facing a well off family and the chances of them getting justice could be close to zero and will probably settle down a a sum of money.

[GentlemanJim]

Do enlighten me.

Read the thread Jim maybe post 40 of yours.

I read the thread, perhaps you should have done, if you did not use selective quoting you may get it. I was replying to the unnecessary post by you below.

Yes we can change some things. My kids are always in proper child seats in the car, the entire family now wear seatbealts as a matter of course when in a car, including the MIL. Those in the family that drive on bikes always wear helmets now. Nobody in the family drives a car or bike and uses a mobile at the same time. And you know, it spreads, those that sit in cars and drive with my sisters in law now replicate the safety behaviour.

If you believe you cannot change anything you are absolutely correct.

Can't beat the perfect law abiding family Jim can we, well when their with you anyway.I'd love to see em though once their out of your sight.

I've been their Jim, seen it and done it but if you really think for one moment that their as perfect when your not there then your IMO seriously deluded.Old English saying."Out of sight out of mind".

Let me know what kind of rod you rule em with, my guess is it's an iron one.

So because I take safety precautions with my family and because I wont let my daughter drive until she has a licence, I must rule my kids with a 'rod of iron'. How sad if you feel that's the only way to get results. I have never had any problems with my kids ever, within sight or out of sight.

[MB1]

@apetely

Agree I can't watch her all the time but then again I don't need to as I trust her to do the right thing.

I do not know of the convicted rich girl in the UK riots but it seems her connection to wealth couldn't buy her freedom as opposed to the subject of this topic.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

A connection to wealth and power can help you, though not in the case of the girl from the Uk but I'm sure many in the Uk will remember the expenses scandal but only 4 Mp's were given jail sentences.

How many would have gone to jail in Thailand. ?.

I Guess 0.

[takatukaland]

Amazing. You guys don't know for sure if she was at fault. Much more likely to be the van driver.

U have no driving license it's automatic ur fault,in most normal countries Insurance would not pay 1 bt if the driver has no driving license

[MB1]

Cant beat cherry picking can you Jim. You posted the post about your family at 11.21 I quoted that post at 11.40.

The post of mine you didn't like

[FarangTalk]

It's all about money as usual.

The notions of morality, ethics and justice are second-place.

There's a reason the wats and Buddha figures are gold.

[MB1]

A criminal court setting up a "negotiated settlement" in a 9 person vehicular homicide case? Quite preposterous. Makes Thailand look like a failed state.

Maybe a bannana republic is more apt.

[GentlemanJim]

Cant beat cherry picking can you Jim. You posted the post about your family at 11.21 I quoted that post at 11.40.

The post of mine you didn't like

You said to us, you cannot change anything here, I gave you a post explaining how you can, you then retorted with the 'rod of iron' remark. Now didn't you say hours ago ( 11.06 ) you were leaving the thread?

Edited June 23, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[MB1]

Cant beat cherry picking can you Jim. You posted the post about your family at 11.21 I quoted that post at 11.40.

The post of mine you didn't like

You said to us, you cannot change anything here, I gave you a post explaining how you can, you then retorted with the 'rod of iron' remark. Now didn't you say hours ago ( 11.06 ) you were leaving the thread?

Yes. .....

I did say I was leaving but changed my mind if that's okay by you Jim. The iron rod remark if it offended you I will apologise but I'm from Yorkshire and to rule them with an iron rod is not to hit with one it's to have control over people and have authority and power over people.

It can be classed as an idiom.

HTH.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MB1

[MB1]

I'm going to bow out for now gents and ladies if participating but before I go I would just like to reiterate what I have been trying to say and prick peoples consience.

If faced with the prospect of having one of your siblings incarcerated in a Thai prison, if you could afford to pay for them not to go to a Thai prison would you do so.?

I for one hold my hand up and will say I would pay, it's acceptable in Thailand so why would I want to see one I love go to prison if I can afford to pay for her freedom for causing a traffic accident.

The girl in question never meant to kill anybody it was an accident.

But she did. She killed 9 people. Unlicensed, underaged, talking on her phone and speeding. If she goes unpunished, where is the incentive for others to follow the law?

Take it up with those who rule Thailand, I am not to blame for how it works in Thailand but what I do know is that money talks and if your connected then life is far easier than a poor farm girl from Issan who has no connections but even a poor farm girl from Issan can get let off if her family or freinds can pull strings.

The Thai' s can be great puppeteers and know how to pull strings when needed.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MB1

[Cobalt60]

On the point of showing no remorse, if she is maintaining her innocence her counsel would have advised her that apologising would be tantamount to an admission of guilt surely ?

[MB1]

When he was in high school, one of my nephews started selling marijuana - to fund his own usage. When my sister and her husband found out, they told him to stop & when he didn't, they turned him into the police.

A few days in the local jail made enough of an impression on him to change his ways. He is now in his mid-twenties and is a successful, law-abiding professional.

I would like to see a few "hi-so' Thai parents have the integrity to do the same for their wayward children... but I'm not holding my breath!

It boils down to what I've been saying, would the same parents have turned their son in if they knew he was going to get 5 to ten YEARS in a Thai style Jail. Me thinks not. And that's the same for hi-so Thai Chinese but it's easy to say they would on an internet forum.

A few days and a few years are completely different.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MB1

[rixalex]

Take it up with those who rule Thailand, I am not to blame for how it works in Thailand but what I do know is that money talks and if your connected then life is far easier than a poor farm girl from Issan who has no connections but even a poor farm girl from Issan can get let off if her family or freinds can pull strings.

The Thai' s can be great puppeteers and know how to pull strings when needed.

People are taking it up with you because you are the one who has taken it upon himself to defend the one justice for the rich, one justice for the poor, system we are seeing in action.

[MB1]

Take it up with those who rule Thailand, I am not to blame for how it works in Thailand but what I do know is that money talks and if your connected then life is far easier than a poor farm girl from Issan who has no connections but even a poor farm girl from Issan can get let off if her family or freinds can pull strings.

The Thai' s can be great puppeteers and know how to pull strings when needed.

People are taking it up with you because you are the one who has taken it upon himself to defend the one justice for the rich, one justice for the poor, system we are seeing in action.

Nothing to do with rich or poor when I first posted, what I questioned was would you let your own daughter be banged up in a Thai jail if you had other options.

It seems that some people according to them would let their children go to jail on an internet forum but IMO if they were faced with the stark grim reality of their children spending 5 to 10 in a Thai jail they would IMO change their minds and pay if they could afford to keep them from going to jail.

Edited June 23, 2012 by MB1

[Scott]

I think some of the baiting, argumentative and overly hypothetical comments can be dropped.

Most parents would do what they could for a child....that may not always be the best solution, but most would try. That is not what this thread is about. It's about 9 victims and their families and someone who is implicating in causing it. Stick to the subject.

[rixalex]

Take it up with those who rule Thailand, I am not to blame for how it works in Thailand but what I do know is that money talks and if your connected then life is far easier than a poor farm girl from Issan who has no connections but even a poor farm girl from Issan can get let off if her family or freinds can pull strings.

The Thai' s can be great puppeteers and know how to pull strings when needed.

People are taking it up with you because you are the one who has taken it upon himself to defend the one justice for the rich, one justice for the poor, system we are seeing in action.

Nothing to do with rich or poor when I first posted, what I questioned was would you let your own daughter be banged up in a Thai jail if you had other options.

And as i said to you before, that is not the question we should be asking ourselves. Be it victims or be it criminals, neither should have a say or be able to influence the punishment dished out. Of course if the option is there, people will take it. Question is, do you think in a fair and working justice system, the option should exist?

[Pseudolus]

MB1 - you are correct; every person here would do anything they could for their kids including bribing their way out of jail time. However, the point that you are continually missing is that this is why countries have laws and judiciary systems. The State should not allow the parents and very very very very very well connected family to allow her to wiggle her tight little arse out of this. The country should be pressing ahead with charges against her, and if found guilty, she should be punished regardless of who daddy is. Also, due to the nature of the events, she could have been tried as an adult as well bringing in 10yrs for each death, served concurrently of course, but she would be inside for 8 years or so.

Everyone here knows that this is not a real country though; just a bunch of rich boys playing at democracy and none of us seriously believe that anything will happen to her apart from maybe mummy and daddy giving her a Range Rover so that next time there is no chance of harm coming to her and she can get away faster as well. But just because the people with a tad of moral decency and outrage at this voice it on here (one of the few places they can) does not mean that they think they can change anything. So your ranting is just as pointless as ours; except that ours has a modicum of decency behind it,

[MB1]

MB1 - you are correct; every person here would do anything they could for their kids including bribing their way out of jail time. However, the point that you are continually missing is that this is why countries have laws and judiciary systems. The State should not allow the parents and very very very very very well connected family to allow her to wiggle her tight little arse out of this. The country should be pressing ahead with charges against her, and if found guilty, she should be punished regardless of who daddy is. Also, due to the nature of the events, she could have been tried as an adult as well bringing in 10yrs for each death, served concurrently of course, but she would be inside for 8 years or so.

Everyone here knows that this is not a real country though; just a bunch of rich boys playing at democracy and none of us seriously believe that anything will happen to her apart from maybe mummy and daddy giving her a Range Rover so that next time there is no chance of harm coming to her and she can get away faster as well. But just because the people with a tad of moral decency and outrage at this voice it on here (one of the few places they can) does not mean that they think they can change anything. So your ranting is just as pointless as ours; except that ours has a modicum of decency behind it,

That's your opinion and fine by me and I'm glad that you acknowledge that your ranting is as pointless as mine.

You also accept that most parents would bribe their way out of jail time for their kids.

We may have laws in the west where the law prevails but we are talking TIT and most know that the law is one rule for one and one for another. Double standards. But I stick by my stance that what one posts on an internet forum and trying to come across as PC is total BS by some but hey ho I can handle it and any amount of animosity towards me for taking the stance and views I have is like water off a ducks back..