Slain Thai Nurse's Mum To Talk To ICC Lawyer: The Hague

[scorecard]

Yeah they did a great job,that why they lost the election in 2011 265-159 seats

Yes you are so correct. PTP won the elections. PTP then went on to use their government office to ; severely mismanage floods resulting in unneccesary deaths and damage, commit human-rights abuses in Bangkok by handing out home addresses of dissenters to an angry mob, spend a fortune on pardoning the crimes of their own membership, disrespect the Supreme Court, avoid almost all parliamentary debates, avoid all unscripted Q&A, allow their Prime Minister to commit serious abuse of office / conflict of interest / ethics violations crimes when she used her prime ministerial office for private business transactions which she has never registered and even tried to cover-up, squandered vast sums on glitchy chinese tabs for no educational value whatsoever, a failed rice mortgage policy that threatens a new era of food price corruption which benefits the corrupt and punishes the poor. And PTP managed all this in just nine months! Imagine what they could do in several years. No wonder you are so proud of them.

And their election promises:

- 300Baht minimuum daily salary, now partly implemented in just 7 provinces but with lots of glitches and with plenty of employers refusing to pay, and with announcements from employers of lay offs because of the 300Baht policy. The other provinces - total confusion, with some comments (from gov't) that it will take 3 years to implement in all provinces, which will cause further complexities. Promise very broken.

- 15,000Baht start salary for new glads, not implemented except in same government agencies by playing with allowances and causing lots of complaints from longer-term staff now paid well under the 15,000. In reality, for pvt enterprise, the pt govt., has shelved it. Promise very broken.

- Everybody will be rich in 6 months. Still waiting. Fake promise

- Strong controls on food prices. Not happening. Promise very broken.

and...

Edited June 26, 2012 by scorecard

[Buchholz]

I wonder how Red Shirt Leader/Pheu Thai Party MP Sunai could have gotten it so wrong that even the Red Shirt Lawyer Karom had to set the record straight. Perhaps some misunderstanding occurred during his visit to Dubai.

Oh, I'm sure they have had plenty of time to clear up that "misunderstanding" since that "visit to Dubai" you illustrate above took place on or before the 2nd October 2011.

The meeting happened in September, but apparently things had changed since then when only a few months later, the flip-flopping and confusion of Red Shirt Leader/Pheu Thai Party MP Sunai really began to flourish.

It went from:

Sunai To File Charge With World Court Against Democrat Govt Next Month

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-next-month/

to

Pheu Thai MP Sunai To Discuss Red-Shirt Crackdown With ICC Judge

For today's daily dose of Pheu Thai Party flip-flopping...

it's now a Discussion with the ICC, while earlier it was

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

[smutcakes]

In 2010 we had a stable government under Abhisit who had instituted policy bills for infrastructure development, helping the rural poor and fighting corruption.

Fighting corruption, are you crazy? Even Abhisit admitted corruption was rampant in his government and there was little he could do about it.

His government had proposed a bill for long term anti-corruption purposes and he himself made beating corruption one of his three main goals. He is also swimming in a sea of corruption like everybody else in Thailand, and members of his party were corrupt. He was removed from power before any real progress could be made and the PTP cancelled many of his projects.

My point, which stands, is that in 2010 Thailand had a government who allowed protest, listened to protestors demands, had initiated bills in parliament to tackle rural poverty and infrastructure development and battle corruption.

My upscaled point was that, Thaksin funded and encouraged and originated an armed uprising where he ordered arson and murder, in an effort to remove the above government from power. The 90+ deaths resulted solely from Thaksins actions and as such I was asking if those deaths were better than just waiting for the elections, bearing in mind the sitting government were not tyrannical or a direct threat to human life and infact they were putting through bills to help the poor.

Yeah thats great, so what actually did they complete successfully? Can you give me a bit of information on this proposed long term anti corruption measure they proposed?

Has the money trace from Thaksin paying all these people actually been found? I remember they froze a load of bank accounts, but did not read whether they actually made any connections?

[Yunla]

Nice summation of the past nine months.

.

Thankyou!

Edited June 26, 2012 by Yunla

[smutcakes]

Nice summation of the past nine months.

.

Thankyou!

Buchholz, what is the point of your post? That they have change their minds on things in nine months?

[animatic]

Oh, I'm sure they have had plenty of time to clear up that "misunderstanding" since that "visit to Dubai" you illustrate above took place on or before the 2nd October 2011.

The meeting happened in September, but apparently things had changed since then when only a few months later, the flip-flopping and confusion of Red Shirt Leader/Pheu Thai Party MP Sunai really began to flourish.

It went from:

Sunai To File Charge With World Court Against Democrat Govt Next Month

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-next-month/

to

Pheu Thai MP Sunai To Discuss Red-Shirt Crackdown With ICC Judge

For today's daily dose of Pheu Thai Party flip-flopping...

it's now a Discussion with the ICC, while earlier it was

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

Since when did "91 Reds" die?

They didn't, that is the total number of dead for the whole time.

Which includes those killed by the Reds and Men in Black.

And possible a simple murderer or two who took advantage of the chaos to remove personal adversaries.

Edited June 26, 2012 by animatic

[phiphidon]

I'm afraid it is not my job to educate you. However I will give you some bullet points to help you get started.

Thaksin resigned his position as PM - se he wasn't overthrown by the army - they took over a picnic that was significantly short of any sandwiches.

Samak technically broke the law by holding another paid job. He lied under oath and falsified documents. He was disqualified by the courts from being PM but was allowed to stand for reselection by his party - the PTP. They rejected him and put Thaksin's brother in law Somchai in

Somchai's government paid the price for the vote buying and illegal goings-on in the 2006 election.

Therefore the military did not kick out any functioninig PM

Thaksin did not resign. Thaksin was caretaker PM awaiting the next election.

I will not accept post of premier in the next government : Thaksin

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced on Tuesday that he will not take the premiership in the next government.

He apologised to the 16 million people who voted for him and his Thai Rak Thai Party in last Sunday's election.

"My main reason for not accepting the post of prime minister is because this year is an auspicious year for the king, whose 60th anniversary on the throne is just 60 days away," Thaksin said in a nationally televised press conference.

"I want all Thais to reunite," he said,"we have no time to quarrel. I want to see Thai people unite and forget what has happened, he said.

However he said he would remain in the position of caretaker prime minister until Parliament selects the new prime minister.

"I will remain a member of parliament and the Thai Rak Thai party leader."

http://nationmultime...es_30000957.php

The Nation Published on September 15th 2006

The five new election commissioners yesterday announced a series of goals that they wanted to achieve, but reorganising their provincial colleagues was not among them.

The newly selected chairman of the Election Commission, Apichat Sukhaggananda, also said the EC is likely to postpone the date for the upcoming election by one month. The election had originally been scheduled for October 15.

Apichat was yesterday unanimously voted EC chairman by his fellow commissioners. His appointment and those of the other commissioners require royal endorsement.

In comments to the press, he backed away from the election's originally scheduled date. "In my view, the election should be either November 19 or 26. However, we will discuss the new date again," he said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/09/15/headlines/headlines_30013678.php

Does it have to be made any more clear to you?

[Yunla]

Yeah thats great, so what actually did they complete successfully? Can you give me a bit of information on this proposed long term anti corruption measure they proposed?

Has the money trace from Thaksin paying all these people actually been found? I remember they froze a load of bank accounts, but did not read whether they actually made any connections?

From wikipedia Abhisit, where there are links to the relevant documents; "As prime minister, he promoted a "People’s Agenda," which focused primarily on policies affecting the living conditions of Thailand's rural and working class citizens.He administered two economic stimulus packages: a $40 billion, three-year infrastructure improvement plan, and a more than $3 billion program of cash subsidies and handouts....... Abhisit also advocated for stronger anti-corruption measures, although several members of his Cabinet resigned due to corruption scandals and parts of his economic stimulus packages were criticized for instances of alleged corruption."

He wanted to make this the long term issue of his government, but then after the fugitive criminal Thaksin's insane murder-and-arson spree in Bangkok 2010, and the disturbance and rescheduling it caused, Abhisit did not have long enough to focus on being PM and implement everything he wished.

Additionally note the 'ministerial resignations', contrasting with Pheu Thai MP's who will not resign or leave their positions while they still draw breath. Infact PTP are paying for the bail of their criminal members with state money, and attempting to subvert the highest authority in Thailand to allow their fugitive leader absolution for his crimes of massmurder and nepotistic state-fund larceny etc.

However, you are welcome to compare Abhisit's short time in office, his projects to help the rural poor and infrastructure and soforth, with PTP's actions to address these same issues in the nine months (allowing for a two month warm-up period) since they arrived,

Your assumption that Thaksin did not fund the 2010 event is very interesting to me. He was doing television broadcasts planning the event for months leading upto it, and I wonder how else those farmworkers would afford to go to Bangkok for three months if they were not funded by somebody and why would a billionaire not be the person funding them. They were all wearing his face on their Tshirts. He was talking to them on television and stage-screens the whole time. How can you not believe he paid for it. Your assumption that convicted criminals on the run will leave a money trail leading from them to a bloodthirsty insurrection, is astonishing. He is recklessly greedy but he is sly and careful when it suits him.

Anyway thankyou for not disagreeing with the main point which is that he publicly incited and encouraged his followers who all wore his face on their Tshirts, to commit city-wide arson and murder of public officials, in a needless uprising which led directly to 90+ deaths. Since you agree on that and you only question if he funded it, I think his absolute guilt is covered by the incitement itself.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Yunla

[phiphidon]

Yeah they did a great job,that why they lost the election in 2011 265-159 seats

Yes you are so correct. PTP won the elections. PTP then went on to use their government office to ; severely mismanage floods resulting in unnecessary deaths and damage, commit human-rights abuses in Bangkok by handing out home addresses of dissenters to an angry mob, spend a fortune on pardoning the crimes of their own membership, disrespect the Supreme Court, avoid almost all parliamentary debates, avoid all unscripted Q&A, allow their Prime Minister to commit serious abuse of office / conflict of interest / ethics violations crimes when she used her prime ministerial office for private business transactions which she has never registered and even tried to cover-up, squandered vast sums on glitchy Chinese tabs for no educational value whatsoever, a failed rice mortgage policy that threatens a new era of food price corruption which benefits the corrupt and punishes the poor. And PTP managed all this in just nine months! Imagine what they could do in several years. No wonder you are so proud of them.

Nice summation of the past nine months.

.

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

[Moruya]

I'm afraid it is not my job to educate you. However I will give you some bullet points to help you get started.

Thaksin resigned his position as PM - se he wasn't overthrown by the army - they took over a picnic that was significantly short of any sandwiches.

Samak technically broke the law by holding another paid job. He lied under oath and falsified documents. He was disqualified by the courts from being PM but was allowed to stand for reselection by his party - the PTP. They rejected him and put Thaksin's brother in law Somchai in

Somchai's government paid the price for the vote buying and illegal goings-on in the 2006 election.

Therefore the military did not kick out any functioninig PM

Thaksin did not resign. Thaksin was caretaker PM awaiting the next election.

I will not accept post of premier in the next government : Thaksin

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced on Tuesday that he will not take the premiership in the next government.

He apologised to the 16 million people who voted for him and his Thai Rak Thai Party in last Sunday's election.

"My main reason for not accepting the post of prime minister is because this year is an auspicious year for the king, whose 60th anniversary on the throne is just 60 days away," Thaksin said in a nationally televised press conference.

"I want all Thais to reunite," he said,"we have no time to quarrel. I want to see Thai people unite and forget what has happened, he said.

However he said he would remain in the position of caretaker prime minister until Parliament selects the new prime minister.

"I will remain a member of parliament and the Thai Rak Thai party leader."

http://nationmultime...es_30000957.php

The Nation Published on September 15th 2006

The five new election commissioners yesterday announced a series of goals that they wanted to achieve, but reorganising their provincial colleagues was not among them.

The newly selected chairman of the Election Commission, Apichat Sukhaggananda, also said the EC is likely to postpone the date for the upcoming election by one month. The election had originally been scheduled for October 15.

Apichat was yesterday unanimously voted EC chairman by his fellow commissioners. His appointment and those of the other commissioners require royal endorsement.

In comments to the press, he backed away from the election's originally scheduled date. "In my view, the election should be either November 19 or 26. However, we will discuss the new date again," he said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/09/15/headlines/headlines_30013678.php

Does it have to be made any more clear to you?

I suggest you try Google and search for his resignation .

[Thaddeus]

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

[smutcakes]

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

No, saying it is a 'nice' summation of the past nine months IS an opinion if you want to continue being pedantic.

[Buchholz]

Nice summation of the past nine months.

.

Thankyou!

Buchholz, what is the point of your post? That they have change their minds on things in nine months?

The point of my post was to concur with Yunla's summation that spelled out a number of the more major flops.

It involves much, much, more than simply "changing their mind".

.

[Thaddeus]

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

No, saying it is a 'nice' summation of the past nine months IS an opinion if you want to continue being pedantic.

It was a double application of a term, meaning that not only was Don inferring that Buch held the same opinion, but it is also only an opinion based on the previous post of alleged opinions, which wasn't a list of opinions but a list of events.

Now, what were you saying about being pedantic.

[Bagwan]

I can't help thinking along the lines that there are no Thai people capable of governing the country and, like quarrelsome children, they run to outside bodies such as the ICC and the IMF to sort their problems out for them.

Such is the moral morass that this country is in that Judas would feel quite at home here.

[Buchholz]

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

No, saying it is a 'nice' summation of the past nine months IS an opinion if you want to continue being pedantic.

To complete the pedantic circle, posting the "opinion qualifier" would necessarily needed to be added to nearly all posts by all posters.

If someone doesn't already understand that aspect to the forum, without the pedantic "opinion qualifier" being added, they are in the wrong place.

.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[phiphidon]

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

"Listing events is not". Interpreting those events necessarily involves an opinion.

[chuang]

Just throw some baht at the family and this will go away.

Baht justice.

Very insulting indeed for someone to make such a sweeping statement...one who is devoid of feeling...

[phiphidon]

ICC is not going to take this case. Ban Ki-Moon came to Thailand shortly after the crackdown in 2010 and told everybody that he believed that this issue must be solved among Thais. No party should try to involve the international community.

Recently Kofi Annan came to Thailand and said that this issue was an internal issue for Thailand. According to him KEY players in the conflict should take a step back..

Since Thida and Weng claim to represent all Thai people, I wonder if they are also going to represent the families who lost innocent loved ones during the crackdown on drugs, once they are in Holland? Are they also representing the killed THAI soldiers' families?

And meanwhile somewhere in the middle east, one Thai fugitive ex-leader keeps on digging a whole untill one day it's large and deep enough for him and his cronies to "retire" in.

The UN is not my father? It really doesn't matter what Ban Ki Moon or Kofi Annan says - if the ICC accept there is a case to be heard after investigation (currently ongoing) they will accept it. If not, they won't.

Structure of the Court

The Court is an independent institution . The Court is not part of the United Nations, but it maintains a cooperative relationship with the U.N

http://www.icc-cpi.int/Menus/ICC/Structure+of+the+Court/

[phiphidon]

"Nice summation of the past nine months" .Only missing the "in my opinion" qualifier. Oh, and presumably yours............

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

No, saying it is a 'nice' summation of the past nine months IS an opinion if you want to continue being pedantic.

To complete the pedantic circle, posting the "opinion qualifier" would necessarily needed to be added to nearly all posts by all posters.

If someone doesn't already understand that aspect to the forum, without the pedantic "opinion qualifier" being added, they are in the wrong place.

.

Sometimes it is necessary as some people on this forum are very subtle about posting opinions disguised/implied as facts....................

[Moruya]

Does it have to be made any more clear to you?

I suggest you try Google and search for his resignation .

Allow me to assist now I have finished masticating.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=atKOkbTLyoeo&refer=top_world_news

[jayboy]

Does it have to be made any more clear to you?

I suggest you try Google and search for his resignation .

Allow me to assist now I have finished masticating.

http://www.bloomberg...=top_world_news

This subject has been debated countless times before and this Bloomberg article is always referred to by the coup's apologists.I think the circumstantial detail is quite well known including Thaksin's resignation manoevreing.However no serious commentator or newspaper tries to deny the coup was directly aimed at Thaksin ( nor do Thai politicians of any stripe).One only hears this bizarro world nonsense from expatriates on this forum

[Buchholz]

Saying "I think Mark is a good bloke" is an opinion.

Listing events is not.

No, saying it is a 'nice' summation of the past nine months IS an opinion if you want to continue being pedantic.

To complete the pedantic circle, posting the "opinion qualifier" would necessarily needed to be added to nearly all posts by all posters.

If someone doesn't already understand that aspect to the forum, without the pedantic "opinion qualifier" being added, they are in the wrong place.

Sometimes it is necessary as some people on this forum are very subtle about posting opinions disguised/implied as facts....................

Rather than some arbitrary "sometimes", if someone has that much difficulty sorting what is opinion and fact, it just goes without saying.

Certainly in this "sometime" instance cited, it's clear that it is an opinion and if you can't sort out even that rudimentary level of opinion stating, then no amount of adding an "opinion qualifier" will help.

.

[soundman]

Post, and reply, with unfounded allegations against a political party have been removed from view.

[Nickymaster]

ICC is not going to take this case. Ban Ki-Moon came to Thailand shortly after the crackdown in 2010 and told everybody that he believed that this issue must be solved among Thais. No party should try to involve the international community.

Recently Kofi Annan came to Thailand and said that this issue was an internal issue for Thailand. According to him KEY players in the conflict should take a step back..

Since Thida and Weng claim to represent all Thai people, I wonder if they are also going to represent the families who lost innocent loved ones during the crackdown on drugs, once they are in Holland? Are they also representing the killed THAI soldiers' families?

And meanwhile somewhere in the middle east, one Thai fugitive ex-leader keeps on digging a whole untill one day it's large and deep enough for him and his cronies to "retire" in.

The UN is not my father? It really doesn't matter what Ban Ki Moon or Kofi Annan says - if the ICC accept there is a case to be heard after investigation (currently ongoing) they will accept it. If not, they won't.

Structure of the Court

The Court is an independent institution . The Court is not part of the United Nations, but it maintains a cooperative relationship with the U.N

http://www.icc-cpi.i...e of the Court/

For a few dictators it doesn't matter what the UN says. For most civilized people it does.

Who called the UN to mediate in 2010 and 2012?. Looks like the little boy in hiding is missing his father.

Give it another spin PPD. Come on!!

Edited June 26, 2012 by Nickymaster

[hbullinger]

The "case" against Abhisit and the Democrat government was stoked by the BBC, not least in its most recent documentary "Thailand Justice under Fire", August 2011, weblink:Khttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufwX0JsdXA. It begins with hailing Yingluck Shinawatra as the new leader bringing democracy to Thailand. Since then it must have become clear to most observers what sort of democracy the red shirts meant when they terrorised Bangkok.

[Moruya]

Does it have to be made any more clear to you?

I suggest you try Google and search for his resignation .

Allow me to assist now I have finished masticating.

http://www.bloomberg...=top_world_news

This subject has been debated countless times before and this Bloomberg article is always referred to by the coup's apologists.I think the circumstantial detail is quite well known including Thaksin's resignation manoevreing.However no serious commentator or newspaper tries to deny the coup was directly aimed at Thaksin ( nor do Thai politicians of any stripe).One only hears this bizarro world nonsense from expatriates on this forum

Well, if the esteemed reporters of Bloomberg are not red enough for you........

[phiphidon]

Since when did "91 Reds" die?

They didn't, that is the total number of dead for the whole time.

Which includes those killed by the Reds and Men in Black.

And possible a simple murderer or two who took advantage of the chaos to remove personal adversaries.

Well I suggest you take it up with the The Nation whose erroneous headline it is. Sunnai is quoted

Pheu Thai MP Sunai Julponsathorn said Monday he will petition the International Criminal Court ICC at the Hague on December 9 to take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed during the military crackdown on red shirts in April and May last year.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Sunai-to-file-complaint-with-ICC-over-deaths-of-91-30170812.html

Nothing whatsoever about 91 Reds - That is the Nations "version" of what he said.

[chotthee]

I think the Nurse mother took the compensation money. Millions of it. So she should just shut up.

[metisdead]

I think we're getting way off topic here, this topic is about Slain Nurse's mum to talk to ICC lawyer, there are plenty of other threads in which Thaksin has been discussed repeatedly.

Lets get back on topic.