The Value Of Your Child'S Education.

[mjj]

So, what's it worth? 10,000 baht a year or 400,000 a year?

I ask this as a father of a small boy and it is playing on my mind more and more.

Many posters on here have chosen to send there children to International schools at, say around 400k per year - sometimes more. Now multiply that by the number of years at school, 12 to 13 (not including uni) and that bring the total to around 5 million per child.

Now assume the posters that spend 10k per year on schooling have the same disposable income, they would have saved around 4.9 million baht. If they were then to give that child the 4.9m, which child would be in the better situation.

Yes, I know I'm giving to ends of the spectrum here, but I feel the point is still valid.

A problem I have with International schools (apart from the cost) is are they all that? A few years ago I looked into teacher training and including QTS it would have taken me 3 years and then I could be teaching your child. The farang teachers there only need be as good as the worst qualified teacher it Farangland. This makes me question how much they are worth. Would you pay 400k for a state school in Farangland?

Alternatively, the parents of the 10k student may spend some of the savings on foreign holidays and other such activities - what's the value of seeing the world?

Sure, some of you have enough money for the International school, the holidays and the 5m golden handshake at the end of education. If that's you, well done, and I mean that. If I had 400k to spend on education per year without batting an eye lid and all the other extras I would probably do the same.

Personally, I think education is important as is international travel and experiencing different cultures. But how would you proportionally divide your income on those things?

On the other hand as I'm writing this I am starting to think that I will probably be the biggest factor in my sons education due to the type of father I am - so maybe 400k would be a waste........oh, I don't know...

[skybluestu]

I think you summed it up at the end! Good parenting will be just as important, probably more than, the education they receive.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I've posted quite a few requests for suggestions wrt top-quality schools teaching in English other than the few (IMO around 7) top "true" international schools, all around Bangkok.

Haven't gotten any.

Other than that top tier IMO they offer very poor value for money.

If you feel qualified to and can afford it, either home school yourself, or employ a full-time tutor (Filipina or maybe Burmese?).

Otherwise live with the fact that your kids are getting a very substandard education.

IMO.

[Soutpeel]

I think you summed it up at the end! Good parenting will be just as important, probably more than, the education they receive.

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

"Would you pay 400k for a state school in Farangland?"......yes If could afford it, without question...

Edited June 26, 2012 by Soutpeel

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

But the "can afford" begs the question doesn't it.

How many would pay say 80% of their income out for school fees? I know several Thai families that do. . .

Sure live in a crappy flat and cut the food budget to the bone, no problem, but sacrifice health insurance for it?

All up to you of course, it's a personal decision for each of us, not a universal "moral" issue.

[mjj]

I think you summed it up at the end! Good parenting will be just as important, probably more than, the education they receive.

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

"Would you pay 400k for a state school in Farangland?"......yes If could afford it, without question...

So you would live on 6,000 baht a month like a Thai person, to pay for your child to go to the best school in Thailand?

State schools in the uk are free. And schooling in the uk is not all that good. Better than here no doubt, but not that great. These are some of the farang teachers in the international schools.

[marshbags]

I was never a big fan of the international schools, yes there are plenty of success stories attached to them.

Many of the students get a decent standard of education but from my experience lots of them are neglected / missing out on parental input and the love of normal family life.

Parents being to busy for what ever reasons ect. ect.

Personally from my experiences you can find good schools at government level and private ones that are far less costly and provide a good standard of education.

In my case I went the private way as I found it more consistant with all round standards, including the teaching of discipline to compliment our home life environment and communication skills.

Good parenting is most definitely important and they should be prepared and willing to get involved with their children on a daily basis if at all possible.

Spending quality time with them, sharing an interest in their homework and encouraging while not doing it for them ect.

Selfish actions will not enhance their learning, nor encourage them to study and a familty routine and involvement is most important.

I always spent plenty of time both prior to going to school and be there as often as possible when school finished to welcome her home and ask how her day was and what she had been learning and offer my input on any dificult parts, especially English.

You do not have to spend the mega baht to get the best out of them, just look around or indeed enquire on the forum as many members have children in good quality schools and can provide / offer invaluable up to date advice for most parts of Thailand.

If you love em get involved and you will surely reap the rewards you get back in the years to come and the knowledge of having done your best for their futures.

My daughter has made me very proud over several years and she is now about to start International University having achieved the qualifications needed for acceptance to study for a BA in English Teaching.

Just my take on this very important and welcomed post you have submitted for those with youngsters about to start their education.

Thank you MJJ and also to those who are posting positive thoughts to enhance it.

marshbags

P.S.

The education provided will only be as substandard as you allow it to be.

Edited June 26, 2012 by marshbags

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Bottom line is that those who can't afford top rates and feel that their children's receiving a top education is a top priority usually decide to return home or at least move to a country with an affordable quality school system.

If I got an offer that allowed me to move to Finland for the next ten years, I'd take it in a flash.

The quality of what they'd get back stateside from a government school in a neighborhood I could afford isn't worth the misery IMO.

[Soutpeel]

I think you summed it up at the end! Good parenting will be just as important, probably more than, the education they receive.

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

"Would you pay 400k for a state school in Farangland?"......yes If could afford it, without question...

So you would live on 6,000 baht a month like a Thai person, to pay for your child to go to the best school in Thailand?

State schools in the uk are free. And schooling in the uk is not all that good. Better than here no doubt, but not that great. These are some of the farang teachers in the international schools.

If that is what it took to get the child a decent education...yes

State schools in the UK are free, I know, but my daughter in the UK goes to a private school in the UK at quite a considerable cost simply because I feel this will give her a distinct advantage later in life...

Will it make her a highly flying CEO of an MNC ? maybe/maybe not...but do I feel she will have advantage over other people looking for a job who went to comprehensive school or grammar school....you bet...

A decent education is one of the few things a parent can give a child which is a long term investment....they may not recognise it now...but later in life they will...I know I certainly did, as my parents did it for me.

[samsiam]

I pay circa 350k per year for my kids...each.

They are having an excellent education....I think and hope...first time I have had kids, so not sure really......and as a gauge...my 6yo daughter is reading quite big books, can spell a lot of very large words...not hippapotimiss though....she can do many sums in her head, is dividing and subtracting in the 1000's....and loves school.

They have a great sports and after school hours program for extra activities that she does almost every day....she won a swim race today in fact.

The teachers all seem excellent and many are long term teachers here, some on their 5th. 6th year at the school, all are approachable and none are nervous.

I know my limitations and I could not teach my kids, nowhere near the patience to do it and succeed.

So for me, it is worth it and also there is no other either better, or cheaper option near us.

Giving your child 4.9m baht in 13 years....how do you know they will not piss it down the drain ?...at least with a solid education, hopefully it is a good start and they are taught the right things....like thinking for themselves and making right decisions.......that will not happen in your 10k thai school.

[Soutpeel]

I pay circa 350k per year for my kids...each.

They are having an excellent education....I think and hope...first time I have had kids, so not sure really......and as a gauge...my 6yo daughter is reading quite big books, can spell a lot of very large words...not hippapotimiss though....she can do many sums in her head, is dividing and subtracting in the 1000's....and loves school.

They have a great sports and after school hours program for extra activities that she does almost every day....she won a swim race today in fact.

The teachers all seem excellent and many are long term teachers here, some on their 5th. 6th year at the school, all are approachable and none are nervous.

I know my limitations and I could not teach my kids, nowhere near the patience to do it and succeed.

So for me, it is worth it and also there is no other either better, or cheaper option near us.

Giving your child 4.9m baht in 13 years....how do you know they will not piss it down the drain ?...at least with a solid education, hopefully it is a good start and they are taught the right things....like thinking for themselves and making right decisions.......that will not happen in your 10k thai school.

Well said and well done...one assumes your kids are dual citizens, so one assumes at some point in their lives they may decide to go an live in the "other country" and a decent "international education" will stand them in good stead if they ever chose to do that

[DP25]

Personally I think it would be worth it for high school as subjects are getting much more complicated at that point, but probably not before that. I would actually probably move back to the US at that point so they could attend a public high school there.

Edited June 26, 2012 by DP25

[samsiam]

I pay circa 350k per year for my kids...each.

They are having an excellent education....I think and hope...first time I have had kids, so not sure really......and as a gauge...my 6yo daughter is reading quite big books, can spell a lot of very large words...not hippapotimiss though....she can do many sums in her head, is dividing and subtracting in the 1000's....and loves school.

They have a great sports and after school hours program for extra activities that she does almost every day....she won a swim race today in fact.

The teachers all seem excellent and many are long term teachers here, some on their 5th. 6th year at the school, all are approachable and none are nervous.

I know my limitations and I could not teach my kids, nowhere near the patience to do it and succeed.

So for me, it is worth it and also there is no other either better, or cheaper option near us.

Giving your child 4.9m baht in 13 years....how do you know they will not piss it down the drain ?...at least with a solid education, hopefully it is a good start and they are taught the right things....like thinking for themselves and making right decisions.......that will not happen in your 10k thai school.

Well said and well done...one assumes your kids are dual citizens, so one assumes at some point in their lives they may decide to go an live in the "other country" and a decent "international education" will stand them in good stead if they ever chose to do that

Thats exactly right......its all about options.

But then I also reflect....I left school at 15yo and I turned out ok......but as everyone...I want more for my kids, perhaps not easier, just different.

In respect to a further education abroad....I have been recently wondering what other people do when one child reaches the age to attend Uni and another child is still in secondary school....what do they decide to do if it means moving country...one kid gains, the other, usually the younger....perhaps loses out.

[David48]

Is there any thought given to say attending a government run school and finishing with the last two years in a International School?

Even is they had to repeat a year to get up to speed?

The above question is framed in the light that I know nothing of any worth about the Thai School System.

[mjj]

I think you summed it up at the end! Good parenting will be just as important, probably more than, the education they receive.

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

"Would you pay 400k for a state school in Farangland?"......yes If could afford it, without question...

So you would live on 6,000 baht a month like a Thai person, to pay for your child to go to the best school in Thailand?

State schools in the uk are free. And schooling in the uk is not all that good. Better than here no doubt, but not that great. These are some of the farang teachers in the international schools.

If that is what it took to get the child a decent education...yes

State schools in the UK are free, I know, but my daughter in the UK goes to a private school in the UK at quite a considerable cost simply because I feel this will give her a distinct advantage later in life...

Will it make her a highly flying CEO of an MNC ? maybe/maybe not...but do I feel she will have advantage over other people looking for a job who went to comprehensive school or grammar school....you bet...

A decent education is one of the few things a parent can give a child which is a long term investment....they may not recognise it now...but later in life they will...I know I certainly did, as my parents did it for me.

Really! I'm suprised because I value travel very highly as well as weekend activities, I guess you do not. Horses for courses.

[Soutpeel]

The above question is framed in the light that I know nothing of any worth about the Thai School System.

do a little research on TV and you will get many opinions of the Thai education system....

[TommoPhysicist]

Too many people are equating 'spending a lot of money' to 'getting a good education'.

They are not the same thing at all.

Most of those who make lots of money have failed at education.

A 'good education' is for average people living average lives.

Someone once said all the top high school high achievers end up as unhappy nobodies in dead-end jobs.

Edited June 26, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[ripstanley]

Education starts from the day of the birth. The cost is your time you spend with the child. Most fathers work and miss the early years. There is so much learning for a child before they start school. Our child is due in August and I will be with him for his early years as I know I will not when he is a grown man.

When he goes to school it will be in this area and most likely a private school but not an international school. I will be also teaching him as best I can. The monetry cost for our son will be lower then if we lived in Bangkok. I believe that the best teachers are the parents

[BigJohnnyBKK]

In respect to a further education abroad....I have been recently wondering what other people do when one child reaches the age to attend Uni and another child is still in secondary school....what do they decide to do if it means moving country...one kid gains, the other, usually the younger....perhaps loses out.

Moving the whole family just to be near a UNI aged "kid"?

Crikes if you're kids aren't ready to be off on their own by 16 you're not doing it right. . .

IMO of course.

Lots and lots of kids move far from their parents in even their early teens to go to boarding school, and as long as they're well-grounded sensible people (your job) they should be fine, as long as it's not the sadistic drug-infested hellhole that some such schools can be. . .

[farang000999]

there is one international teacher who has enough free time to write a weekly 2000 word article on the sex industry. something tells me that he is not staying up all night lesson planning.

my brother and mother are teachers in the USA. they are super dedicated and put so very much effort into their students.

my questions and assumption is that the farang who are teaching in thailand are doing so so that they can stay here and that many are probably addicted to the bars. is their passion really children and sharing knowledge or do they love South East Asia and travelinga nd photography or whatever?

Personally I find it quite unlikely that they are all that dedicated. It seems much more likely that their true passion is Thailand/Asia/Travel/Whoring - not your children.

[farang000999]

that said, no way in hell am i sending my kids to thai public school.

there must be some middle ground in a private thai language school that costs less than 400k baht english school but is higher quality than the government nurseries.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Is there any thought given to say attending a government run school and finishing with the last two years in a International School?

Even is they had to repeat a year to get up to speed?

The above question is framed in the light that I know nothing of any worth about the Thai School System.

Depends on their primary-age grounding. Average less-motivated kids going to a standard Thai government school (= horrible) would probably have a very poor chance of even getting into one of the top International Schools here, even if you expressed willingness to hold them back.

Unless you were spending a lot of time home-schooling them after hours.

There are "second-tier" schools that IMO would be fine for that strategy, but I'd say get them into the good school by around 10-12 so they aren't scrambling with basic literacy/numeracy issues when the challenging content hits in senior school.

[mjj]

I suppose I could ask the question, what do you learn at school?

Off the top of my head,

Physics - Flemings left hand rule.

Chemistry - hydrogen is the lightest element,

Geography - tectonics

History - great fire of London

Biology - ileum and duodenum make up the small intestine

Maths - I had a natural ability with, until A level when they replaced the numbers with letters.

French - I can ask for a croissant and orange juice.

When have I even used it? Well apart from now! The French is used the most often and I've only been to France about 10 times.

So why is school education important? I say school education as any parent worth their salt will teach their children the 3 R's. Plus factor in the general knowledge you can get now because of the Internet.

[Soutpeel]

Too many people are equating 'spending a lot of money' to 'getting a good education'.

They are not the same thing at all.

Most of those who make lots of money have failed at education.

A 'good education' is for average people living average lives.

Someone once said all the top high school high achievers end up as unhappy nobodies in dead-end jobs.

Tommo ..without trying to be rude...you are full of it mate...

and plese dont use Bill Gates as an example, yes he was a drop out...a drop out from Harvard I believe

[Soutpeel]

I suppose I could ask the question, what do you learn at school?

Off the top of my head,

Physics - Flemings left hand rule.

Chemistry - hydrogen is the lightest element,

Geography - tectonics

History - great fire of London

Biology - ileum and duodenum make up the small intestine

Maths - I had a natural ability with, until A level when they replaced the numbers with letters.

French - I can ask for a croissant and orange juice.

When have I even used it? Well apart from now! The French is used the most often and I've only been to France about 10 times.

So why is school education important? I say school education as any parent worth their salt will teach their children the 3 R's. Plus factor in the general knowledge you can get now because of the Internet.

I love the rational applied here....go to a prospective employer and tell them...I have a good education..I know my 3 R's....LOL

Employers these days rightly or wrongly are more interested in the bits of paper you have, and which school you went to..its the game thats played today...especially in Thailand....at sometime in the future you will need a degree to sweep the floors...

[BigJohnnyBKK]

that said, no way in hell am i sending my kids to thai public school.

there must be some middle ground in a private thai language school that costs less than 400k baht english school but is higher quality than the government nurseries.

Normal (low end poor quality) "english program" schools start at around 100K per year.

The lesser so-called "International Schools" (IMO only marginally better) start at double that, but deliver far less quality, it's really a non-incremental jump between the usual and the top schools.

Here's my guestimate:

Put top private schools in our home countries at 100, and depending on the location, government schools there between 30 and 80.

The top schools in Thailand IMO would be around 50.

The second-tier international schools and top Thai-run English Programs say 20-30.

Top Thai government schools and the better private ones - 10.

Normal Thai government schools maybe 1-5.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure exceptions-that-prove-the-rule in each of the lower categories.

Which I'd love to hear about specific examples myself.

[farang000999]

no i meant thai langauge private school.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I suppose I could ask the question, what do you learn at school?

...

When have I even used it? Well apart from now! The French is used the most often and I've only been to France about 10 times.

So why is school education important? I say school education as any parent worth their salt will teach their children the 3 R's. Plus factor in the general knowledge you can get now because of the Internet.

As you point out, the specific content of what you learn is largely irrelevant except as indicators to others that you've had a good education (part of the western need for "face" 8-).

However:

Good work habits, self-discipline struggling to overcome what seem to be huge barriers.

Learning how to learn, gather and filter through and synthesize large amounts of information quickly and turn it into useful knowledge.

Creativity, critical thinking, analysis, challenging the conventional mainstream thought patterns.

That's what a good education brings, and what is missing from 99.99% of the schools run by Thais.

[mjj]

I suppose I could ask the question, what do you learn at school?

Off the top of my head,

Physics - Flemings left hand rule.

Chemistry - hydrogen is the lightest element,

Geography - tectonics

History - great fire of London

Biology - ileum and duodenum make up the small intestine

Maths - I had a natural ability with, until A level when they replaced the numbers with letters.

French - I can ask for a croissant and orange juice.

When have I even used it? Well apart from now! The French is used the most often and I've only been to France about 10 times.

So why is school education important? I say school education as any parent worth their salt will teach their children the 3 R's. Plus factor in the general knowledge you can get now because of the Internet.

I love the rational applied here....go to a prospective employer and tell them...I have a good education..I know my 3 R's....LOL

Employers these days rightly or wrongly are more interested in the bits of paper you have, and which school you went to..its the game thats played today...especially in Thailand....at sometime in the future you will need a degree to sweep the floors...

Soutpeel, I agree about the uni fully. My son WILL be going to a top university to get that paper. But in all the years I've worked what school I went to never factored, only the qualifications I attained.

A degree from Oxford or Cambridge is worth more than one from some uni no one has heard off, but schooling or college isn't - well until you get to the Eton crowd, but then its about contacts not education.It maybe different in other parts of the world, it may be different here, I don't know.

[mjj]

I suppose I could ask the question, what do you learn at school?

...

When have I even used it? Well apart from now! The French is used the most often and I've only been to France about 10 times.

So why is school education important? I say school education as any parent worth their salt will teach their children the 3 R's. Plus factor in the general knowledge you can get now because of the Internet.

As you point out, the specific content of what you learn is largely irrelevant except as indicators to others that you've had a good education (part of the western need for "face" 8-).

However:

Good work habits, self-discipline struggling to overcome what seem to be huge barriers.

Learning how to learn, gather and filter through and synthesize large amounts of information quickly and turn it into useful knowledge.

Creativity, critical thinking, analysis, challenging the conventional mainstream thought patterns.

That's what a good education brings, and what is missing from 99.99% of the schools run by Thais.

And this is the crux of what I am thinking. (I think we have discussed this in a previous thread about me moving to Samui and finding a school).

All of what you say I agree with 100% and it is what I can achieve at home. Which then leads me to think what school he goes to is quite irrelevant. Well, still a good school in a bad pond, but not such a priority.