New Draconian Property Law To Deport Foreigners Who "Owns" Land Illegally

[BirdsandBooze]

Well, these elitist fascists need to put their own house in order first by taking back all the land given to their HiSo squatter friends who have brazenly stolen protected land from the Thai nation. If ever a country needed a clear out of the Establishment it`s this one.

no such thing like elitist fascist! please read again:

Ombudsmen will submit the draft to parliament this year, and Mr Siracha thinks there is backing for the bill.

Course there is, whose pockets do you think these people are in.

[RogueLeader]

Time to move. I hear Cambodia is nice.

Yes, a thai can go anywhere in Europe and purcjase land, even like Taksin park himself and travel the world on a passport given to him, Even buy a football team... Try that in Thailand as a foreigner, someone feels he has lost something!

No. Taksin was only allowed to do that because he was extremely rich. If an ordinary Thai tried to do it, they wouldn't be given a visa.

You can buy your way into Britain, the same as you can anywhere.

[FarangTalk]

We're nothing but walking ATMs to these people.

The Thais are quick to forget that they have the British to thank or they would all be speaking French.

And the Allies for ridding them of the Japanese, and in particular the Americans for them escaping punishment for being on the Axis side in WWII.

See a pattern here?

When their history is so full of fantasy and lies it is sometimes easy to understand where the undercurrent of xenophobia comes from.

[RogueLeader]

We're nothing but walking ATMs to these people.

The Thais are quick to forget that they have the British to thank or they would all be speaking French.

And the Allies for ridding them of the Japanese, and in particular the Americans for them escaping punishment for being on the Axis side in WWII.

See a pattern here?

When their history is so full of fantasy and lies it is sometimes easy to understand where the undercurrent of xenophobia comes from.

When I read posts like this, it's very easy to understand where the xenobhobia comes from.

[Beetlejuice]

Imagine the chaos which will ensue with this quote if it ever becomes law ...

"The new law includes a reward to anyone providing information about foreigners owning land through nominees. They will get 20% of the market price of that piece of land as a reward after the plot is sold," he said at a seminar on foreign property ownership yesterday held by the Thai Appraisal Foundation.

Be careful the neighbour or relative!

Exactly. Something like, give up your neighbor during the Nazi occupied countries in World War two.

It had to happen. As I have said many times in the past, the negligent actions of the few will have a knock on affect for all of us.

There are those, even on Thai visa, that blatantly flaunt the fact that they are the financial backers and shadow owners of real estate and businesses. So now the rules are tightening up for everyone.

The problem is that many of these farangs believe that the Thai authorities are stupid and have no idea or care what is going on, but as I have said in countless posts, perhaps OK in moderation, but over the last few years Westerners have been plonking themselves in Thailand and bending the rules to extremes believing it`s OK, because no one is looking.

I can tell you that even Thai visa threads are being scrutinised by the police and noted.

These people are not doing themselves or us any favours and hopefully this time the Thai authorities will mean what they say and clear the whole lot out of Thailand.

[tommytitfull]

I guess they could start with the Singaporeans that just dropped 1.4 Billion baht on a resort in Phuket. http://www.thaivisa....-phuket-buyout/

It's a little early for the annual sabre rattling which now appears to be a bi annual event instead of an annual event.

GREAT FOR A THAI TO REPORT THIS AND THEN GET 20% OF THE VALUE,Also all farangs will be moving out of Thailand and buy homes in other countrys

[alanferdi]

Im sure when they start confiscating land and deporting foreigners it will make global headlines, yet another reason for foreigners to piss their pants and look for alternatives

Why dont Thai politicians in power now go back to school! Study about Rhodesia and the role it played as a fruit basket to the rest of the continent. When local farmers try to do politics you are only left with BS results and the state the country in in today... The begging bowl

[bangkokheat]

the "draconian law" is one of the usual lukewarm farts of wannabes that surface once in a while. Thai politicians and big shots who pull the strings are not as stupid as some of the resident (stupid) Farang experts think. they will not kill the goose that lays golden eggs. period!

I have to disagree with you, they are doing it on a daily basis

submit proof of just one "daily basis" case. you can't? because it's a top secret thing your maid heard from her cousin who has a friend who knows a gardener working for a top politician?

sorry skywalker, suggest you stop watching star trek.

Everyday that foreigners get fleeced, stabbed, murdered, conned etc etc, the corruption, politics, shit do i have to draw you a picture?

Mostly hi profile crimes get exposed, go and hire a jetski. Either the goose is going to stop laying or they gonna kill it, stuff it and eat it

[BirdsandBooze]

2 - Legal ways:

* Lease 30 years: Everybody has to know that you have NO garantee that the lease will be renewed after 30 years. After 30 years you may loose your good.

* Buy the land at the name of you thai wife, but if she is a prostitute, she will may ask 50% of the value of the house and leave.

Sorry Spellforce, but not totally correct... even IF she leave, YOU OWN NOTHING ... so forget the 50 percent. Same if your wife dies, property does not go to you, it goes straight to the family of your wife....except car etc, which is hopefully in your name BEFORE...after you will not have the chance to change the name in the book....same other way around, Thailaw

If you are not sure my fellow TV members, RENT is always kind of safer then buy.... YOU will NEVER own LAND in Thailand

Sorry, you`re wrong there, if your wife has a legal phi nai gam with you as the beneficiary you`ll recieve ownership of the property when she dies and have 180 days from when you receive the deeds to sell. We have one.

However - YOU dont own anything here....and you cant pack your house in the 180days and running away with it... so even in the 180 days you can and HAVE TO SALE because its not YOURs

As the beneficiary the deeds are transferred to you for 180 days which is the time limit to conduct it`s sale. You should have no problem in selling it in that time span depending on your location, just might not get what it`s worth, that`s all . Apart from your legal fees all proceeds will go to you. I`m fortunate that my missus bought the house with her own money so I`ve got none of my own tied up in it. Not that I want anything to happen to her you understand.

[harryfrompattaya]

Do we have civic duty to turn in our neighbor as we live here and are married to a Thai? Also the 20 per cent is the chicken feed?

[cowslip]

Just gets more and more ridic!

[Tatsujin]

I notice they say about land being held in a nominee company, but there is no mention about condos being owned the same way? It's not like a condo owner is going to set up a paddy field in his front room is it?

Because a foreigner already CAN own a condo 100% . . . that's easy and not illegal.

Foreigners can own a condo in a building provided foreign ownership of the condos in that building does not exceed 49%.

Nothing 100% about it. Still that little clause to protect against nasty foreigners written in there.

Yes, the 100% was referring to the fact that they can own the condo 100% provided that all applicable rules and regulations are followed, including the foreign ownership aspect.

[AllCatsAreGrey]

Where are all the real estate pimps from this forum , when you need them ?

[harryfrompattaya]

Where are all the real estate pimps from this forum , when you need them ?

They are throwing up and packing because they are afraid of jail. We all known they have no work permit to rent etc.

I pray for their criminal souls

[BeforeTigers]

So the big question for many expats- Will they loose or potentially loose that house they bought from a real-estate agent that is technically owned by a 'company', in these cases the company isn't real but the house is owned by this 'company' that has thai 'nominees' that own 51%, the rest-49% of the 'compnay' is owned by the foreigner who spent all that money to by 'his/her' house which they don't technically own..

I believe that's exactly what they're proposing.

[franzs]

I still have a big doubt: How can possibly any foreigner "own" land throught nominees??? In any case they are renting that land, cuz the real owner is the nominee.

a foreigner register a company limited partnership, him included 7 shareholders, Thai majority 51%, all signing shareholders get a one time commission, after a few weeks this shareholders "selling" to the foreigner, now he owns 100% of of the company, he appoints himself as MD and has signing rights, now he can buy land, build a house,

there is officially still one Thai person that signs the yearly reports or tax papers, this person will have a good extra income, mostly is this person the girlfriend of the foreigner,

I am since 20 years married here, and we still not own land and house, because also my Thai wife can't buy land when married to a foreigner,

[KhunRobert]

Can you all send a copy of your land papers and ownerships. I'm willing to share the 20 % of the land price reward to turn you in.

[Arkady]

Thank you very much for the advice. My wife isn't the bar girl type, thank goodness. I could put the land in her name without worrying, but I would like to put it in my (Thai-British) children's names. They have Thai ID cards. I'm wondering if the source of the money will be investigated since the authorities are so paranoid. I suppose I could make a legal document stating that the money is a present for them. I don't know though.

This should not be a problem, unless you plan to develop the land. Children as owners cannot apply for planning permission. Under the Civil and Commercial Code the money could be considered as conjugal property that your wife, rather than you has gifted to the children. I don't think the transfer is taxable as would be gifts outside the family but would need to double check this. In practice there is not going to be any problem under existing laws with your kids owning the land, or you wife, if you both sign the appropriate declaration. The last time Mrs Arkady felt the urge to increase her land bank I was sitting in the Land Office waiting to sign the declaration when someone came up and asked the chief what the farang was doing sitting at his desk. The chief replied that the farang was there to buy land and needs to sign this declaration to make it legal. Mrs Arkady was in fact buying land upcountry but we went to sign the bumpf at our local land office in Bangkok where they are used to foreigners with Thai wives. I think it would have been OK upcountry too.

Thank you for your reply.

The purpose of the land would be to build a house on it, so the purpose is to develop it.

In that case, you would be better off putting it in your wife's name first. She could transfer it to the children after the house is built and the transfer tax between close family members is much lower than the normal rate. Mrs Arkady bought some land from her aunt and was able to benefit from this lower rate of tax. I think she could also add the childrens' name to the deed as joint owners with her, which might seem more palatable to her.

[Muggi1968]

I have been visiting my thai family here for 6-7 years and finaly settled down permanent(Jan 2, 2012) .

I have been following thai politics and law very intense all these years.

If I am wrong please tell me but I think.

Thai politiciens make laws using the

"Try and see if it work" method (Like children do).

Each year they make a law... they wait 1 year to see if it works...

If it don't (always) try and change it.

And so they continue...

I think theese new laws are just yet another stupid law that will change next year...

Am I completely wrong ?.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Muggi1968

[samsiam]

Hope the Evason resort in Phuket complies.

[maidu]

Was Thaksin's grandfather 100% legal, when he immigrated from China? If not, then the entire Shinawatre clan's property holdings in Thailand are illegal. Ok, I jest. But look at how easy it is for Chinese to get Thai citizenship vs any other nationality (Except maybe Thailand's bordering neighbors).

Pretty much every large business in northern Thailand is owned by Chinese immigrants. Would be interesting to see whether they actually went through the motions to attain Thai citizenship. It certainly wasn't anything remotely like the parameters required for people with pointy noses and hairy arms.

[Arkady]

I still have a big doubt: How can possibly any foreigner "own" land throught nominees??? In any case they are renting that land, cuz the real owner is the nominee.

a foreigner register a company limited partnership, him included 7 shareholders, Thai majority 51%, all signing shareholders get a one time commission, after a few weeks this shareholders "selling" to the foreigner, now he owns 100% of of the company, he appoints himself as MD and has signing rights, now he can buy land, build a house,

there is officially still one Thai person that signs the yearly reports or tax papers, this person will have a good extra income, mostly is this person the girlfriend of the foreigner,

I am since 20 years married here, and we still not own land and house, because also my Thai wife can't buy land when married to a foreigner,

Sorry but this is pathetic. You've been here for 20 years, would like to own land via your wife but don't know that the ministerial regulation preventing Thai women with foreign husbands from buying land was scrapped in 1999?

Also none of your information about Thai companies is correct. They only need 3 shareholders since 2009, not 7. There is no need to have a Thai citizen sign the annual accounts and tax return. An authorized director of any nationality will do. Even before 2006 when the company route to buying land was still viable foreigners had to hold less than 40% at the time of the land transfer or the case would be sent to the DG of the Land Dept for investigation according to ministerial regulations at the time. In 2006 that percentage was reduced to zero, i.e. any foreign shareholding at all or foreign directors set off the alarm and the investigation is now done by the local Land Office. Finally foreigners can't own 100% of a company without an alien business licence and this is not going to be granted for a shell company set up to own land illegally.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Arkady

[Beetlejuice]

Do we have civic duty to turn in our neighbor as we live here and are married to a Thai? Also the 20 per cent is the chicken feed?

That`s a good point.

It would be a great way to make a living in Thailand.

I may become, beetlejuice, bounty hunter and defender of justice. Providing the price is right of course.

All you sneeky little phantom real estate owners, had better start watching over your shoulders from now on.

BTW, where do we go to report these people?

[Babcock]

The virtues of PAD and the the Democrat Party I suppose. Anyone who read the masterpiece of the Bangkok Pundit yesterday must have fallen from his chair. The PAD accuses the US of wanting to use U-tapao to carry out biological warfare and this is another piece in the process to please the xenophobic neo nazi elite. When do Western countries wake up and enforce pay the Thai elite back in the same currency.

Who is the party in power right now proposing this legislation?

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Who appointed this ombudsman?

We've just been reading about The two rulings involving former foreign minister Kasit Piromya and Deputy Agriculture Minister Natthawut Saikua.

Definite partisan rulings against the former yellowshirt foreign minister and for the current redshirt minister

Here for all to see is the thai elites attitude to those foreigners coming from democratic countries.

[maidu]

I have been visiting my thai family here for 6-7 years and finaly settled down permanent(Jan 2, 2012) .

I have been following thai politics and law very intense all these years.

If I am wrong please tell me but I think.

Thai politiciens make laws using the

"Try and see if it work" method (Like children do).

Each year they make a law... they wait 1 year to see if it works...

If it don't (always) try and change it.

And so they continue...

I think these new laws are just yet another stupid law that will change next year...

Am I completely wrong ?.

You're not wrong. They also float ideas like this (in the OP) as 'one-upmanship' to show they're more patriotic than the next person. Common sense and fairness take a back seat. If they were able to think a bit deeper, they'd see that enforcing any such law would have to criminalize the brokers and the bureaucrats who enabled the many deals prior. Yet Thai bureaucrats can never get in trouble. Even for grave offenses, the worst that can happen is to get assigned to 'an inactive post.'

[Arkady]

Was Thaksin's grandfather 100% legal, when he immigrated from China? If not, then the entire Shinawatre clan's property holdings in Thailand are illegal. Ok, I jest. But look at how easy it is for Chinese to get Thai citizenship vs any other nationality (Except maybe Thailand's bordering neighbors).

Pretty much every large business in northern Thailand is owned by Chinese immigrants. Would be interesting to see whether they actually went through the motions to attain Thai citizenship. It certainly wasn't anything remotely like the parameters required for people with pointy noses and hairy arms.

It was Thaksin's great grandfather that immigrated to Thailand, not his grandfather and the Immigration Department was only set up in 1927. There were no restrictions on immigration before that. It has never been particularly easy for anyone to obtain Thai nationality by naturalization but from 1913 to 1971 any one born in the Kingdom of Thailand to parents of any nationality or immigration status (including illegal immigrants by excluding diplomats) was automatically entitled to Thai citizenship. That is the route by which the vast majority of Chinese migrants obtained Thai nationality. Re Chinese ownership I would go further and say that virtually all businesses larger than a roadside noodle store are owned by ethnic Chinese.

[Babcock]

What about the law for those who bring in substantial funds?

I remember meeting an american who owned beach land that he could develop.

[apetley]

The virtues of PAD and the the Democrat Party I suppose. Anyone who read the masterpiece of the Bangkok Pundit yesterday must have fallen from his chair. The PAD accuses the US of wanting to use U-tapao to carry out biological warfare and this is another piece in the process to please the xenophobic neo nazi elite. When do Western countries wake up and enforce pay the Thai elite back in the same currency.

Who is the party in power right now proposing this legislation?

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Who appointed this ombudsman?

We've just been reading about The two rulings involving former foreign minister Kasit Piromya and Deputy Agriculture Minister Natthawut Saikua.

Definite partisan rulings against the former yellowshirt foreign minister and for the current redshirt minister

Here for all to see is the thai elites attitude to those foreigners coming from democratic countries.

Then I guess we will soon find out if PTP and the elites are one and the same if they go ahead with it.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[BarryM]

The MM2H program is not cheap, but it is excellent and beats the pants off even the promised benefits of the joke Thai Elite program - most benefits of which were withdrawn anyway.

Thailand is intent on becoming the Zimbabwe of Asia. Good luck with that, I'm out of here as soon as I can.

And to to rose tinted fools who say we won't miss you - I won't miss you or Thailand either

[garyk]

Thailand is a few notches from the top on the best retirement location in the world. It is because you cannot even own a small piece of land and build a home legally. I live there because as most I have a woman there. So easy to get there. Hummmmm Bad situation if they start to enforce the laws. I think that is a pretty big IF though.