New Draconian Property Law To Deport Foreigners Who "Owns" Land Illegally

[brianP]

The Thais are right and proper in protecting their land rights for their own, their children's posterity. Thailand is not alone in this endeavor. Mexico has stringent controls on foreign possession. In part:

Under the Mexican Constitution, only Mexicans have the right to own land or receive mineral or water rights. Foreigners have the right to own real property, provided they do not invoke the protection of their government. That sounds reasonable enough, doesn't it? All this means is that any dispute concerning land ownership will be decided by Mexican courts, treating foreign landowners the same as Mexican nationals. Foreigners have no legal recourse in the legal system of their homelands. This is done to prevent the historic recurrence, prevalent in Latin America in the past 200 years, of a capital-exporting country meddling in the sovereign affairs of another nation to protect a private party's economic interests.

Foreigners are prohibited from directly owning real estate within the "Forbidden Zones" of 100 kilometers of the Mexican border and 50 kilometers of its coasts. Within these restricted areas, foreign ownership is only possible under a bank trust.

Yeah ,foreigners have their legally purchased land taken away by 200 year old land grant laws in Mexico and drug cartels kill,rob, extort or kidnap the remaining with the collusion of Mexican authorities, nobody foreign in their right mind would want to live in MURDEROUS Mexico. Besides the Mexicans are all up in the USA getting food stamps and welfare to do their hyper breeding and gangbanging... ADIOS

[personchester]

So the big question for many expats- Will they loose or potentially loose that house they bought from a real-estate agent that is technically owned by a 'company', in these cases the company isn't real but the house is owned by this 'company' that has thai 'nominees' that own 51%, the rest-49% of the 'compnay' is owned by the foreigner who spent all that money to by 'his/her' house which they don't technically own..

I was worried that they may one day close the loophole so I never took the bait when real-estate agents told me "yes you can own a house in Thailand" I figure better to put the money in another investment and just rent..

After creating the company the 51% Thai directors of the company all sign and give an undated letter of resignation of their directorship to the 49% farang owner, the moment the farang wants to sell the property, or wants to make any other changes he will put the needed date on the signed letters, that is to say the 51% Thai directors have no power to override the farang in anyway about matters within the company.

[Jayman]

So the big question for many expats- Will they loose or potentially loose that house they bought from a real-estate agent that is technically owned by a 'company', in these cases the company isn't real but the house is owned by this 'company' that has thai 'nominees' that own 51%, the rest-49% of the 'compnay' is owned by the foreigner who spent all that money to by 'his/her' house which they don't technically own..

I was worried that they may one day close the loophole so I never took the bait when real-estate agents told me "yes you can own a house in Thailand" I figure better to put the money in another investment and just rent..

After creating the company the 51% Thai directors of the company all sign and give an undated letter of resignation of their directorship to the 49% farang owner, the moment the farang wants to sell the property, or wants to make any other changes he will put the needed date on the signed letters, that is to say the 51% Thai directors have no power to override the farang in anyway about matters within the company.

Yes, and using this method for a farang to own land in Thailand is illegal. The 51% thai shareholders are legally supposed to have put in 51% of the money. Did they? This won't be hard for the authorities to verify.

[garyk]

In America the Mexican people who enter illegally are being deported in the thousands. Where just a few years a blind eye was turned. They loose everything over night. So Thailand is growing and it will happen there with the land deals also. Maybe not overnight in my opinion but will happen. As soon as something happens to warrant the enforcement of the law. I think no problem, but when something happens and people and government are very mad about something. Out you go.

[Muggi1968]

! Question: How is Thailand in 10 years from now (2022) ?

[Jayman]

! Question: How is Thailand in 10 years from now (2022) ?

Let me go dust off my crystal ball and I'll tell ya.

[samsiam]

Prolly not such a good idea all you lot explaining how you own land in Los here in a public forum huh ??

Some people cannot understand Confucius most famous saying.... Confucius say : sleeping dog not bite.

[mucacho]

This is impossible, i talk with one lawyer, he said he did over 1000 companies for falangs like this.

Falangs must own 100 000 of houses in Thailand.

but at least give the 60 year lease for god sake. I am 37 now, I need only 40 more years, than you can keep you bloody house and stop making so difficult for us to live in Thailand

maybe all tourist should just move out and then we will see where the SUPERB thai economy with sallaries of 10000 bht per month will bring them

the tourists is what hold this country together, nothing else..... many jobs because of tourists, many people earn from tourists now they want to deport us

i have heard cambdia is nice too...

but i guess i will buy condo now,i am not messing with house at all, i am scared

[thedivezone]

"The new law includes a reward to anyone providing information about foreigners owning land through nominees. They will get 20% of the market price of that piece of land as a reward after the plot is sold,"

Are foreigners eligible for this reward... if so, I think I'll be dam_n rich pretty fast by providing infos :-)

Sure, if the job description in yourwork permit is : "snitch".

[Om85]

Over the past decade, there have been so many statements from various government officials that they are about to clamp down on foreigners owning land through illegal nominees, and that new, draconian laws will be introduced.

But apart from a few ‘scaremongering’ actions and statements from regional land offices that they are going after these land-owning ‘criminals’, little has been done to disturb the peace and tranquillity of those farangs who ‘own a property through the company/nominee system. To my knowledge, not a single farang, who lives in his own home, has ever been brought to book, and had his home seized or been forced to sell and deported from Thailand.

Therefor it is not unreasonable to assume that these new proposed laws will also die a similar death over the coming weeks and months.

Changing the land laws here is a very lengthy and complicated business, and just because one guy says he is drafting new laws, there is absolutely no reason to assume that anything is going to change any time soon – if ever.

There are so many obstacles to overcome, including partisan ‘fights to the death’ by opposing political parties on anything that smacks of controversial legislation that in all probability, it will die a death like all previous land reform proposals.

If the government wanted to clamp down on foreign land ownership, it would make far more sense to go after the ‘nominee shams’ than try to bring in new laws. They already have the necessary laws if they really want to do something.

In any event, for a vast majority of farangs who only want their dream home in paradise to eke out their remaining years, then the proposal to lengthen the lease period from 30 to 50 or 90 years would satisfy a vast majority of farang residents. The maximum 30 year lease rule has always been the major bone of contention as they would live in fear of being thrown out of their homes in their dotage, with little money and nowhere to go.

As for those who predict dire consequences for the tourist industry if such laws are passed, well quite frankly that is just laughable. The number of tourists coming to Thailand has increased year on year for decades, regardless of coups, murders and rapes of foreigners, scams, and any amount of negative publicity.

The punters will never stop coming here – no matter what the government does to the land laws or anything else, for that matter. It is fact that for every tourist who says they are not coming back, there are at least ten new ones to take their place. Get used to it, and stop making foolish, unsubstantiated, dire predictions on tourist numbers dramatically dropping.

99% of the tourists couldn’t give a hoot what Thailand does with its land laws.

But maybe these new proposals have nothing to do with the farangs who own land and homes through dubious legal devices.

It is actually highly possible that it has much more to do with the activities of an alarming trend in governments and corporations of rich countries to buy up farmland on a large scale in more than 60 developing countries to produce basic foods for export.

According to the farmers’ rights group, GRAIN, on worldwide farmland grabs, the massive rush was triggered by the food crisis in 2007 and 2008.

To protect themselves, the food-importing countries, led by the Gulf States, started to use "farming abroad" to secure direct food supplies.

According to the World Bank, about 50 million hectares of land were sold or under long-term lease to foreign governments and investors in 2008 and 2009 alone and according to Land Matrix, an online public database of large-scale land deals, 227 million hectares were involved in this global farmland grab.

That is more than 1,400 million rai of farmland, or half the land area of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

As a result of this global land grabbing, millions of poor farmers are being thrown off their land, local water sources are siphoned to feed giant agro-industries, and ecosystems are severely damaged by large-scale chemical-intensive plantations.

Among the main countries seeking farmland abroad are the Gulf States, China, South Korea and Japan. Closer to home are Singapore and Malaysia. For example, Kuwait is reportedly investing US$20 million to irrigate 4,500 hectares in Laos to produce rice for export to Kuwait.

While the buying up of paddy fields in Thailand has yet to be exposed, many scenic areas in resort towns are now in the hands of foreign real estate businesses.

For years, mountains in the North have been turned into chemical-intensive orange plantations by Chinese money and corn plantations by contract farm giants.

Meanwhile, forest dwellers are kicked off their ancestral land for forest officials' carbon credit money. Old communities are also evicted from the forests to make way for timber and oil palm plantations.

So concerns about massive land grabbing really have nothing to do with xenophobia.

They stem from a desire to hold the government accountable when the drive to make Thailand the so-called ‘Kitchen of the World’ ends up destroying local ecological systems, small farmers' livelihoods, and the country’s own food security.

Why don’t we just wait and see what this proposed legislation is really all about before we start to throw our toys out of our prams and indulge in unnecessary and unjustified name calling at our Thai hosts?

I agree with you I think that this laws will target -mostly-singaporean, chinese and arabs companies that are heavily investing in the rice paddies.

[mozzieslapper]

Sod this for a lark LOS, there's always Laos

Can you own land in Laos?

[catweazle]

Where are all the real estate pimps from this forum , when you need them ?

They are throwing up and packing because they are afraid of jail. We all known they have no work permit to rent etc.

I pray for their criminal souls

seldomly heard a more idiotic comment...

[samsiam]

Thailand is worried about becoming a tenant and never getting their deposit back.

[Beetlejuice]

I have been visiting my thai family here for 6-7 years and finaly settled down permanent(Jan 2, 2012) .

I have been following thai politics and law very intense all these years.

If I am wrong please tell me but I think.

Thai politiciens make laws using the

"Try and see if it work" method (Like children do).

Each year they make a law... they wait 1 year to see if it works...

If it don't (always) try and change it.

And so they continue...

I think theese new laws are just yet another stupid law that will change next year...

Am I completely wrong ?.

You’re not wrong, but this time there are going to be some drastic changes with strict enforcements.

Before, the Thai authorities were unperturbed as regards the complicity of under handed real estate and land dealings. But the problem has gotten out of hand and the system is being abused, wholesale.

These shadow financial backers of land already know the prohibitions for foreigners purchasing land, otherwise they would not be buying by proxy.

So who do you believe is to blame? The Thai authorities or those that are flaunting the laws on such a grand scale?

As I said; it is the actions of the minority that place the scutany on all of us.

[evadgib]

This smacks of Mugabe's land grab programme. I note the elite send their kids to be educated in the west & quite a few of the hypocrites own land there!

Edited June 29, 2012 by evadgib

[moskito]

As the beneficiary the deeds are transferred to you for 180 days which is the time limit to conduct it`s sale. You should have no problem in selling it in that time span depending on your location, just might not get what it`s worth, that`s all . Apart from your legal fees all proceeds will go to you. I`m fortunate that my missus bought the house with her own money so I`ve got none of my own tied up in it. Not that I want anything to happen to her you understand.

NONE of us bought house or land with his money...it belongs always to the missus...like u called her ...but anyway, that changes nothing - YOU dont own anything...you are in duty for selling it in the 180 days time...but you do not own it...

Means, when you buy a house...or SHE buy a house, you have to state that the money belongs to her ... or not`?

[Darrel]

The Thais are quick to forget that they have the British to thank or they would all be speaking French.

Indeed. (Or German/Japanese.)

Edited June 29, 2012 by Darrel

[moskito]

I still have a big doubt: How can possibly any foreigner "own" land throught nominees??? In any case they are renting that land, cuz the real owner is the nominee.

a foreigner register a company limited partnership, him included 7 shareholders, Thai majority 51%, all signing shareholders get a one time commission, after a few weeks this shareholders "selling" to the foreigner, now he owns 100% of of the company, he appoints himself as MD and has signing rights, now he can buy land, build a house,

there is officially still one Thai person that signs the yearly reports or tax papers, this person will have a good extra income, mostly is this person the girlfriend of the foreigner,

I am since 20 years married here, and we still not own land and house, because also my Thai wife can't buy land when married to a foreigner,

will you enlighten me please, how come? I am married here since 12years too, and my wife bought some land in Phuket and we build a house on it 10 years ago. Her name is in the Chanot, if it was lease land she would not have bought it... I have no idea what you talking about...may be a new law? I know the government was talking about something like this...but if she buy land before married it will be still hers

[moskito]

The Thais are quick to forget that they have the British to thank or they would all be speaking French.

Indeed. (Or German/Japanese.)

yeah RIGHT ... lol or Chinese, or Hindi, or Khmer or Keeswaheli ... I bet the Thai government send letters every day and thank the queen and her family for beeing so gracious

[Darrel]

The MM2H program is not cheap, but it is excellent and beats the pants off even the promised benefits of the joke Thai Elite program - most benefits of which were withdrawn anyway.

Apples and oranges. The defunct Thai Elite nonsense was taken up by just a handful of people, and was never more than an alternative solution for show-offs with more money than sense anyway. Just like fancy credit cards.

Compare the MM2H programme with the bog-standard 800KB-in-the-bank Thai retirement visa extension, if you want to compare like to like. And there can be no serious comparison.

[crazydrummerpauly]

I notice they say about land being held in a nominee company, but there is no mention about condos being owned the same way? It's not like a condo owner is going to set up a paddy field in his front room is it?

Because a foreigner already CAN own a condo 100% . . . that's easy and not illegal.

As long as the overall balance of foreigners to thais in the development is no more than 49%/51% - is that right ?

[Dap]

No use trying to apply logic in anything that the Thai government does when it comes to foreigners, their xenophobic ways will never change.

Then they are going to have some serious problems when 2015 rolls around.

[munmick]

Time to move. I hear Cambodia is nice.

Yes in Cambodia you dont need a work permit,Can stay 1 year .Start up a bussines. They welcome foriegn investment with no restictions. Get bussines visa without leaving the country. New start for many i know.

[munmick]

What about a similar law for Thai living abroad ,in the interest of FairPlay !

Good point....If you are married to a Thai you have no rights whatsoever,you are only a quest. If a Thai marries an english person then when and if they get to England after 2 years can become British citizen and own land all same as an British person. In Thailand a Thai lady who marries a forigner cant own land if the money came from her husband.The Thai lady is Discriminated in her own country.While a Thai man marries a foriegn lady ,The lady can own land and be a Thai citizen.. So Foriegners Married to a Thai lady have familey are still a nothing here in Thailand.

[rotary]

If they keep on with crap like this they will suffer. I agree to stop foreigners from owning large amounts of land but they should let a Falang own 1 rai or something like that. Are they afraid we will take the property and leave a big hole in the ground? ha ha

[munmick]

"welcoming foreign investment",

Just as long as you dont end up owning anything !!!

Doh

And that's the whole point . . . with the laws currently in place here anyway, that land, house, business or whatever that is "foreign" owned can be taken away in a heartbeat cos it was obtained illegally in the first place. They "allow" it to happen at the moment but it can be taken away just as easily.

A good Thai saying >>>>> What is yours is mine and what is mine is my own.

[HumanitiesEnemy]

Buddhism teaches that YOU CANNOT OWN anything in this world. Strange how Buddhisms taught in school here but the Thai System of laws are contradictory to Buddhism.

[Beetlejuice]

As the beneficiary the deeds are transferred to you for 180 days which is the time limit to conduct it`s sale. You should have no problem in selling it in that time span depending on your location, just might not get what it`s worth, that`s all . Apart from your legal fees all proceeds will go to you. I`m fortunate that my missus bought the house with her own money so I`ve got none of my own tied up in it. Not that I want anything to happen to her you understand.

NONE of us bought house or land with his money...it belongs always to the missus...like u called her ...but anyway, that changes nothing - YOU dont own anything...you are in duty for selling it in the 180 days time...but you do not own it...

Means, when you buy a house...or SHE buy a house, you have to state that the money belongs to her ... or not`?

Yes you do and have the paper work to back it up.

The Thai authorities can insist on proof that a property or land is owned exclusively by a Thai spouse, meaning in name and purchase money.

For example, in many areas of the poor North East and in the north, it would be obvious that some farmer`s daughter or ex-bar girl living in an expensive or semi middle range property married to a farang, that the odds are the wife would not have had the financies to purchase it with her money.

My sources have informed me that a few farangs and their Thai wife`s have been questioned and investigated by the local police regarding land deals and ownership. It`s already begun, so have your paperwork prepared and explanations ready, I kid you, not.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Arkady]

What about a similar law for Thai living abroad ,in the interest of FairPlay !

Good point....If you are married to a Thai you have no rights whatsoever,you are only a quest. If a Thai marries an english person then when and if they get to England after 2 years can become British citizen and own land all same as an British person. In Thailand a Thai lady who marries a forigner cant own land if the money came from her husband.The Thai lady is Discriminated in her own country.While a Thai man marries a foriegn lady ,The lady can own land and be a Thai citizen.. So Foriegners Married to a Thai lady have familey are still a nothing here in Thailand.

You are a bit out of date. In 1999 the ministerial regulation that preventing Thai women (but not Thai men) married to or cohabiting with foreigners from buying land was repealed and replace with a new regulation that treats all Thais married to or cohabiting with foreigners equally whether male or female. They can buy land, if they and the foreign partner both sign the declaration.

In 2008 the Nationality Act was amended to give foreign men married to Thais almost the same right to apply for Thai nationality without obtaining permanent residence first as foreign women married to Thai men, although it's still a long road for all.

It's still not much compared to the rights enjoyed by foreigners in the UK but at least the gender discrimination has been all but removed.

[BarryM]

if you had the money to meet the MM2H criteria you'd understand the difference.

Thailand is still a great place for retirees with limited means. The wealthier people I know here have already left or are planning to do so.

The MM2H program is not cheap, but it is excellent and beats the pants off even the promised benefits of the joke Thai Elite program - most benefits of which were withdrawn anyway.

Apples and oranges. The defunct Thai Elite nonsense was taken up by just a handful of people, and was never more than an alternative solution for show-offs with more money than sense anyway. Just like fancy credit cards.

Compare the MM2H programme with the bog-standard 800KB-in-the-bank Thai retirement visa extension, if you want to compare like to like. And there can be no serious comparison.