Students' Blood Scare In Kalasin

[webfact]

Health scare follows 'fake doctors' blood test

The Nation

KALASIN: -- Kalasin provincial public health office will provide a fresh series of HIV blood tests for 148 students from Khammuang Industrial and Community Education College after it was found that fake doctors used the same needle in early tests on all the students.

Meanwhile, provincial public health officials at Tak yesterday insisted that in a similar case, fake doctors had not used a single needle for blood tests on students from Mae Sot Industrial and Community Education College.

Kalasin Governor Somsak Suwannasujarit set up a remedial centre at Kham Muang Hospital after the so-called "doctors" performed the blood tests - for which they charged each student Bt100 - at the college’s June 12 annual health check.

The centre provided a blood test for HIV and so far none of the 148 who took the test have proved positive. They were advised to take another test at the centre on September 28. Somsak assigned a committee to look into the case within one week while another committee will probe the Bt100 fee collected from each student. The incident upset many parents, who have called for college executives to take responsibility and might call for their sacking.

Dr Patjuban Hemhongsa, chief medical officer for Tak province, said there was no evidence to confirm the group of fake doctors there had used only one needle for blood testing of many students. However, no one could tell them in detail about how these impostors had performed the test or whether the needles were reused.

He said he had instructed his officials to conduct an investigation into the blood tests on the students from Mae Sot Industrial and Community Education College.

The unconfirmed reports of the reused needles had caused public concern over the possibility of HIV infection.

-- The Nation 2012-07-02

[TheWalkingMan]

Several years ago the same thing happened in Japan. A geezer doctor used one needle on a number of children at a school.

[noitom]

Fake doctors/real doctors. As long as they are Thai there are no ethical standards and pinching baht here and there to pocket a little change is fine. make money at all costs, use old needles, save the baht to keep the skim. No need to worry, it's alright Mr. I'm Thai, I say so. Just let me take care of you my way.

[newermonkey]

If the doctors were fake then the HIV tests were probably fake. the nasty thing about this is that HIV infection can take a long time to show up positive, and the prospect does not look good for these inocent kids.

What a terible shame some of them MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death and so young and without any compensation whatsoever.

Whoever hired the "doctors" should get life in jail along side these greedy morons.

[newermonkey]

After thinking about it... the fake doctors are probably not in custody yet because the fake teachers and staff who hired them can't get he fake police to find and arrest them.

You are so funny - BUT YOU ARE CORRECT.

Problem is the few REAL ones are as incompetent or in some areas worse than the fakes, seems in this country it’s all accepted. Add the politicians to your list as they are ALL FAKES.

When Thailand starts up its first Neclear reactor god help us because there is no fake OR real cure for radiation sickness.

[Docno]

Fake doctors/real doctors. As long as they are Thai there are no ethical standards and pinching baht here and there to pocket a little change is fine. make money at all costs, use old needles, save the baht to keep the skim. No need to worry, it's alright Mr. I'm Thai, I say so. Just let me take care of you my way.

Ahh... I get it. Fake doctors who are Thai have no ethical standards. Fake doctors in other countries, however, are just fine and are just doing charitable work. Thank you for clearing that up. Have you thought about staying away from Thailand since the medical system is so unreliable and the people are so untrustworthy? Just asking....

[softgeorge]

Fake doctors/real doctors. As long as they are Thai there are no ethical standards and pinching baht here and there to pocket a little change is fine. make money at all costs, use old needles, save the baht to keep the skim. No need to worry, it's alright Mr. I'm Thai, I say so. Just let me take care of you my way.

Ahh... I get it. Fake doctors who are Thai have no ethical standards. Fake doctors in other countries, however, are just fine and are just doing charitable work. Thank you for clearing that up. Have you thought about staying away from Thailand since the medical system is so unreliable and the people are so untrustworthy? Just asking....

Fake doctors where ever they are put innocent lives at risk. Yes there are fake doctors in other countries but this topic is about fake doctors in Thailand.

[Fozfromoz]

Aside from the despicable act, what needs to come out is how did this whole incident come about?

The buck has to stop with somebody. Did the school ring up a hospital and request that doctors come and do annual testing?

Somebody had to engage someone to carry out the annual checks.

Credentials would have been checked - surely? Did someone drive past a roadside stall with a sign saying, "cheap doctor services, you call we come, discount for groups".

Was it carried out via a clinic or hospital? Somehow in that process, imposters arrived to conduct the tests.

A "committee" has been formed to "probe" the case. Surely this is a criminal act to be Investigated by the police?

Have I missed something here?

[atyclb]

If the doctors were fake then the HIV tests were probably fake. the nasty thing about this is that HIV infection can take a long time to show up positive, and the prospect does not look good for these inocent kids.

What a terible shame some of them MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death and so young and without any compensation whatsoever.

Whoever hired the "doctors" should get life in jail along side these greedy morons.

Although the event is deplorable, your statement "MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death" is incorrect. Nowadays HIV disease is much akin to that of treating a chronic disease, such as diabetes. Research and new/better treatments will continue.

[atyclb]

Out come the wolves again, saying things like 'this is typical Thai behaviour', 'this could only happen in Thailand', etc, etc. You might learn something if you Google names like "William Hamman", "Fitzgerald Anthony Hudson", "Ron Harris", "Reginald Gill", etc. Some of these fakes worked at hospitals, gave workshops at medical conferences, ran practices. Time to put the high horse back in the stable...

Quite true. Interestingly some of these imposters were found to be quite astute by their legitimate peers, though not necessarily the ones you mention. Yes, professional imposters are far far from limited to Thais, though it is likely a lot easier to do in Thailand due to lax checks and balances and corruption. Seems many fake doctors in G7 nations have had some higher level of competence. Perhaps some did have real medical experience but not the actual complete training and exams a bona fide doctor would have.

All that was needed was a lab technician to draw blood. They have tons of experience and are often better than doctors at this task.

Because of Thailands deep rooted culture of cheating and corruption, events like "fake doctors" seem highlighted. I recall reading a story about a female plastic surgeon office worker from Korea that billed herself as a plastic surgeon, pre-booked Koreans living in US and flew in to do cosmetic surgery in her hotel room (Hawaii)

Edited July 2, 2012 by atyclb

[Valentine]

If the doctors were fake then the HIV tests were probably fake. the nasty thing about this is that HIV infection can take a long time to show up positive, and the prospect does not look good for these inocent kids.

What a terible shame some of them MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death and so young and without any compensation whatsoever.

Whoever hired the "doctors" should get life in jail along side these greedy morons.

Although the event is deplorable, your statement "MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death" is incorrect. Nowadays HIV disease is much akin to that of treating a chronic disease, such as diabetes. Research and new/better treatments will continue.

Provided they can get the treatment which is only covered under certain health schemes for employees & students do not come under these.

[FOODLOVER]

Has the fake PM issued a statement?

[Time Traveller]

Unfortunately, no one accepts responsibility or liability here.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Time Traveller

[atyclb]

Aside from the despicable act, what needs to come out is how did this whole incident come about?

The buck has to stop with somebody. Did the school ring up a hospital and request that doctors come and do annual testing?

Somebody had to engage someone to carry out the annual checks.

Credentials would have been checked - surely? Did someone drive past a roadside stall with a sign saying, "cheap doctor services, you call we come, discount for groups".

Was it carried out via a clinic or hospital? Somehow in that process, imposters arrived to conduct the tests.

A "committee" has been formed to "probe" the case. Surely this is a criminal act to be Investigated by the police?

Have I missed something here?

BTW, I know of a case of a medical imposter from the west that caused a problem at a BKK medical school, after which the university requires proper credentials for any guest professor.

[atyclb]

If the doctors were fake then the HIV tests were probably fake. the nasty thing about this is that HIV infection can take a long time to show up positive, and the prospect does not look good for these inocent kids.

What a terible shame some of them MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death and so young and without any compensation whatsoever.

Whoever hired the "doctors" should get life in jail along side these greedy morons.

Although the event is deplorable, your statement "MOST LIKLY wil die a horible death" is incorrect. Nowadays HIV disease is much akin to that of treating a chronic disease, such as diabetes. Research and new/better treatments will continue.

Provided they can get the treatment which is only covered under certain health schemes for employees & students do not come under these.

I am not familiar with local medical insurance's therefore not in a position to debate them. My post addressed HIV and the treatment thereof.

[Scott]

A post which gives statistics, but no source has been removed from view. If you quote from somewhere, please give a link.

[chooka]

Out come the wolves again, saying things like 'this is typical Thai behaviour', 'this could only happen in Thailand', etc, etc. You might learn something if you Google names like "William Hamman", "Fitzgerald Anthony Hudson", "Ron Harris", "Reginald Gill", etc. Some of these fakes worked at hospitals, gave workshops at medical conferences, ran practices. Time to put the high horse back in the stable...

Out come the wolves again, saying things like 'this is typical Thai behaviour', 'this could only happen in Thailand', etc, etc. You might learn something if you Google names like "William Hamman", "Fitzgerald Anthony Hudson", "Ron Harris", "Reginald Gill", etc. Some of these fakes worked at hospitals, gave workshops at medical conferences, ran practices. Time to put the high horse back in the stable...

What happened to these people and where were they from? So if some fake doctors operated in Western countries and were eventually caught, charged and imprisoned does this make it OK / acceptable for fake doctors to do business in Thailand? The topic is about these fake doctors in Thailand and I do not think people are up on high horses just because these imposters are Thai. I for one and I assume many more would agree that if this was happening in our own countries with our own children the opinions in regard to the fake doctors would not change.

Edited July 2, 2012 by chooka

[Bagwan]

If the fake doctors used one needle each presumably they used the same syringe. I cannot visualise them changing the syringe for each child but using the same needle.

Some time ago I asked a Thai doctor with several overseas qualifications that given the common Thai practice of buying professional qualifications would she say that some doctors were a positive danger to their patients. After some lengthy thought she answered that she thought that I already knew the answer. A nod is as good as a wink?

I take with a pinch of salt that Thai doctors travel the world lecturing other doctors. To hold a licence to practice in the UK requires one to pass BMA examinations and I'm sure that other countries take the same line. If the syllabus and examination standards are so high inThailand why do so many go overseas to acquire qualifications?

[PaullyW]

I guarantee will never here a follow up on this. Just how things work here.

[surangw]

I would wait for an

AIDS Saliva Test

[inquisitive]

It can be pretty spotty at all levels, in fact. Cost may be a popular indicator of quality, but it does not guarantee it.

I see your point that there is no guarantee of quality. In my experience I've spent a lot of my life in Thai hospitals since the 1970s, sometimes five months continuous as in-patient. The best doctors and most successful treatments and surgeries I've ever seen anywhere in the world have been in Bangkok private hospitals. However, I've been in bad hospitals here too. In my experience though, if you pay the money you get world-class treatment here. That is speaking as farang who can afford the high private fees here, I know it is not true of other hospitals where I have also spent many less-happy months.

I have no doubt that you're totally sincere in your evaluation of the care you've received, but it is incredibly difficult to make such judgements with only the information you get as a patient. If your conclusions need only to black/white, then it's not too difficult to assess. Did you survive the surgery? If yes, then the care was good. If you died, then it wasn't. Pretty easy.

But if you want to evaluate whether your recovery time was longer or shorter than average, or if you lost more blood or more tissue was removed than necessary you would ned far more information than I'm sure any hospital has ever given you (whatever the country). Was the surgery performed on you really the most current procedure, or one from years or even decades ago? Or one that is so new it still hasn't really been perfected yet? Were you perhaps the test case to see if a patient could survive the new twist in the technique? I mean, how could you tell?

So your face-saving comment about how some of the physicians here say that they have been invited to teach outside the country and that would show that some of the physicians here are the world's best sounds very nice, but is actually meaningless. In actual point of fact, could you even tell us for sure that the doctors even left the country? Or where they went? I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just saying that neither you nor I know for sure.

And even if their claim is true, I can assure you that there are some really bad doctors giving lectures, and many really good ones that get that way by attending a lot of courses. We all know that being famous and being good at something is not at all the same thing - just look at Paris Hilton.

I would have to guess that a more accurate description of the medical care you've received in Thailand is that sometimes it has left you disappointed, and sometimes you have been satisfied. There really is no easy test to tell where medical treatment is the best, but you might get a reasonable idea where to start looking by finding out where medical specialists get treatment for themselves and their family when the situation gets serious. Would you figure you have more surgeons from America or Germany flying to Thailand for their life sustaining medical treatments, or would you guess it is the other way around? I'd figure that answer could tell you a lot.

[Bagwan]

The gynaecologist who attends to my wife's regular pap smear tests once told me that she was afraid for the younger members of her family since after she and her husband died there wouldn't be a doctor in the family. Her opinion of young medics was that they didn't know nearly enough and were mainly concerning with raking in the folding stuff. I prefer female doctors as I think that they take more care, show a greater degree of concern and don't get humpty if you ask questions. One of the conclusions that Professor Kathy Sykes came to after a worldwide survery of surgeons, physicians, ju-ju men, hynotists, acupuncturists, herbalists amd masseurs was that an important factor in assisting a speedy recovery was the confidence that the patient had in whoever was treating them.