Please help. My second year renewal date for my retirement visa is 16 September 2012. I understand that the 800,000 Baht has to be in my bank account in Thailand for three months prior to renewal. Last year after my first renewal I transferred it back home as I had something to take care of.

Unfortunately due to administrative problems in my home country (third world!) the money will probably only be transferred this week.

This will mean that the period for the money in my bank in Thailand is a few weeks shorter than three months. Will this jeopardise my renewal? Any suggestions?

I believe the officials in Chiang Mai are understanding. I am really starting to get a bit panicky.

Moved to the Visa Forum

I believe you will have to start the whole process again, i.e. get another non immigrant visa and then apply again. I think with your new application the money can be in there 2 months prior. There will be more expert advice coming I'm sure.

There is no exception to the 3 month requirement that I am aware of so believe you will have to start over - and suspect the requirement will be 3 months as believe once you have had a retirement extension that original 'first time option' will have been used if they check; but that does not matter as you will need a new 90 day visa stay in any case.

Now if you have some kind of pension/income you can combine with the bank money there should not be any time in account issue - but you will have to obtain an Embassy letter of income to use that method.

There is no exception to the 3 month requirement that I am aware of so believe you will have to start over - and suspect the requirement will be 3 months as believe once you have had a retirement extension that original 'first time option' will have been used if they check; but that does not matter as you will need a new 90 day visa stay in any case.

Now if you have some kind of pension/income you can combine with the bank money there should not be any time in account issue - but you will have to obtain an Embassy letter of income to use that method.

You will still have to wait for the money to be in the bank for the 90 days to combine it with a guaranteed income.

There is no exception to the 3 month requirement that I am aware of so believe you will have to start over - and suspect the requirement will be 3 months as believe once you have had a retirement extension that original 'first time option' will have been used if they check; but that does not matter as you will need a new 90 day visa stay in any case.

Now if you have some kind of pension/income you can combine with the bank money there should not be any time in account issue - but you will have to obtain an Embassy letter of income to use that method.

You will still have to wait for the money to be in the bank for the 90 days to combine it with a guaranteed income.

That is incorrect. If using a combination method, NO seasoning is required whatsoever. There may be some outlying offices incorrectly enforcing seasoning on such applications, but generally, NO seasoning needed.

IF you can't provide an income letter for SOME income and need to use the 800K bank method entirely, I agree there is no chance of leniency on the seasoning. You will need to start over. You will NOT need to get an O-A in your home country though!

Edited July 2, 201214 yr by Jingthing

You may have to go to Lao or Penang to get a tourist visa to keep you legal ,when your present retirement visa runs out .I think that they will want the full 3 months in the Bank .No harm in trying but have a plan B .

There is no exception to the 3 month requirement that I am aware of so believe you will have to start over - and suspect the requirement will be 3 months as believe once you have had a retirement extension that original 'first time option' will have been used if they check; but that does not matter as you will need a new 90 day visa stay in any case.

Now if you have some kind of pension/income you can combine with the bank money there should not be any time in account issue - but you will have to obtain an Embassy letter of income to use that method.

You will still have to wait for the money to be in the bank for the 90 days to combine it with a guaranteed income.

That is incorrect. If using a combination method, NO seasoning is required whatsoever. There may be some outlying offices incorrectly enforcing seasoning on such applications, but generally, NO seasoning needed.

IF you can't provide an income letter for SOME income and need to use the 800K bank method entirely, I agree there is no chance of leniency on the seasoning. You will need to start over. You will NOT need to get an O-A in your home country though!

I am not sure about what you say is "incorrect". about seasoning. I have often wondered about this because I have a very small pension of about Bt150,000 a year. I would really like to not have to season the balance and put Bt 650,000 the day before I apply and take it out the day after.

The rule is that if using a combination of savings and income the money does not have to be in the bank for any seasoning period.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months

at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant

should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60

days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

There is no exception to the 3 month requirement that I am aware of so believe you will have to start over - and suspect the requirement will be 3 months as believe once you have had a retirement extension that original 'first time option' will have been used if they check; but that does not matter as you will need a new 90 day visa stay in any case.

Now if you have some kind of pension/income you can combine with the bank money there should not be any time in account issue - but you will have to obtain an Embassy letter of income to use that method.

You will still have to wait for the money to be in the bank for the 90 days to combine it with a guaranteed income.

That is incorrect. If using a combination method, NO seasoning is required whatsoever. There may be some outlying offices incorrectly enforcing seasoning on such applications, but generally, NO seasoning needed.

IF you can't provide an income letter for SOME income and need to use the 800K bank method entirely, I agree there is no chance of leniency on the seasoning. You will need to start over. You will NOT need to get an O-A in your home country though!

I stand corrected. Is there a minimum amount of banked money you can use?

There is no exception to the 3 month requirement that I am aware of so believe you will have to start over - and suspect the requirement will be 3 months as believe once you have had a retirement extension that original 'first time option' will have been used if they check; but that does not matter as you will need a new 90 day visa stay in any case.

Now if you have some kind of pension/income you can combine with the bank money there should not be any time in account issue - but you will have to obtain an Embassy letter of income to use that method.

You will still have to wait for the money to be in the bank for the 90 days to combine it with a guaranteed income.

That is incorrect. If using a combination method, NO seasoning is required whatsoever. There may be some outlying offices incorrectly enforcing seasoning on such applications, but generally, NO seasoning needed.

IF you can't provide an income letter for SOME income and need to use the 800K bank method entirely, I agree there is no chance of leniency on the seasoning. You will need to start over. You will NOT need to get an O-A in your home country though!

I stand corrected. Is there a minimum amount of banked money you can use?

No, there is no minimum amount for the bank balance.

What is more interesting is if there is a minimum income requirement when using the combination period. I know that according to the rules there shouldn't be, but I'm not sure that Immigration will accept no seasoning of bank deposit if for instance I use my bank interest back home, which only amounts to few thousand baht, as income.

Sophon

Edited July 2, 201214 yr by Sophon

The question of how small the amount in the income letter can be for a combination application to be accepted as a combination application (in regards to no money seasoning needed for the banked amount) is a question that has been asked for many years now and basically can't really be definitively answered. Under the rules, TECHNICALLY, an income letter showing 100 baht annual income plus bank balance should be accepted as a combination application. But the reality of enforcement when the income shown in the letter is low is that there are no guarantees. Sorry but that's the deal. Even if someone says it worked for me with a very low income letter one year, one office wouldn't prove much at all. I would say its worth a try! Because if you do a combination application with a low income letter, they are free to be lenient (which is actually following the rules). Too late on the seasoning and they don't really have the choice but to reject the application.

Edited July 2, 201214 yr by Jingthing

The question of how small the amount in the income letter can be for a combination application to be accepted as a combination application (in regards to no money seasoning needed for the banked amount) is a question that has been asked for many years now and basically can't really be definitively answered. Under the rules, TECHNICALLY, an income letter showing 100 baht annual income plus bank balance should be accepted as a combination application. But the reality of enforcement when the income shown in the letter is low is that there are no guarantees. Sorry but that's the deal. Even if someone says it worked for me with a very low income letter one year, one office wouldn't prove much at all. I would say its worth a try! Because if you do a combination application with a low income letter, they are free to be lenient (which is actually following the rules). Too late on the seasoning and they don't really have the choice but to reject the application.

Thank you for your responses. I missed the three month deadline for the deposit of 800000 Baht and don't have the combination option. I was reading through previous posts and it was suggested that I would have to get a 90 day O visa. Do I get that in Chiang Mai? When do I apply - before 16 September 2012 when my original O-A visa expires? It was further suggested that in the last 30 days of the 90 day O visa I could re-apply for an O-A retirement visa in Thailand? The money would by then be "seasoned" and what are the requirements other than the deposit in the bank?

1. O-A visas are NEVER available in Thailand. They are only obtained in your home country. For your purposes, FORGET about O-A visas. Your original terminology was wrong. You weren't renewing O-A visa. You were applying for annual extensions based on retirement.

2. You need to START over. To start over you need an O visa. (As opposed to an O-A visa which you do not need). How to get the O visa? Options:

a. - Fly in and out of Thailand, get a 30 day stamp. Then get an O visa in CM as part of the two step process with the second step being application for annual retirement extension. This will be a 90 day visa. As you will only need to season your money for TWO MONTHS because you are starting over, simply get the extension during the last 30 days of your 90 day stay. For the first part, the O visa, go in right away after entering on your 30 day stamp. I would have your proof of banked money ready to show at that time, though the application can't happen until it is seasoned.

b. Go to Laos or Malaysia and apply for a single entry O based on being over 50 and just say you will apply for the retirement extension in Thailand. Then with 30 days left on your 90 day stay, apply for your annual extension based on retirement

c. You could also get a tourist visa in a neighboring country, and do the two step process mentioned in option A. Not sure why you would do that though if you can get a single entry O instead

Good luck.

Edited July 2, 201214 yr by Jingthing

Yeah, I hope the OP is fit, because the only way to "start over" is to leave the country and re-enter under the several options detailed by Jingthing. CM Immigration is really unforgiving about "reviving" an expired "retirement visa", even for people clearly on their death bed. The moral is to never let youreself get into overstay.

1. O-A visas are NEVER available in Thailand. They are only obtained in your home country. For your purposes, FORGET about O-A visas. Your original terminology was wrong. You weren't renewing O-A visa. You were applying for annual extensions based on retirement.

2. You need to START over. To start over you need an O visa. (As opposed to an O-A visa which you do not need). How to get the O visa? Options:

a. - Fly in and out of Thailand, get a 30 day stamp. Then get an O visa in CM as part of the two step process with the second step being application for annual retirement extension. This will be a 90 day visa. As you will only need to season your money for TWO MONTHS because you are starting over, simply get the extension during the last 30 days of your 90 day stay. For the first part, the O visa, go in right away after entering on your 30 day stamp. I would have your proof of banked money ready to show at that time, though the application can't happen until it is seasoned.

b. Go to Laos or Malaysia and apply for a single entry O based on being over 50 and just say you will apply for the retirement extension in Thailand. Then with 30 days left on your 90 day stay, apply for your annual extension based on retirement

c. You could also get a tourist visa in a neighboring country, and do the two step process mentioned in option A. Not sure why you would do that though if you can get a single entry O instead

Good luck.

Thank you for your detailed answer. (looks like I am not the only insomniac - night owl)

If I use option b and go to Laos, which is the closest, do I just cross the border or do I need anything else like a re-entry visa as my original visa is still valid? i will then follow the rest of the steps and the money should be seasoned by then.

.

1. O-A visas are NEVER available in Thailand. They are only obtained in your home country. For your purposes, FORGET about O-A visas. Your original terminology was wrong. You weren't renewing O-A visa. You were applying for annual extensions based on retirement.

2. You need to START over. To start over you need an O visa. (As opposed to an O-A visa which you do not need). How to get the O visa? Options:

a. - Fly in and out of Thailand, get a 30 day stamp. Then get an O visa in CM as part of the two step process with the second step being application for annual retirement extension. This will be a 90 day visa. As you will only need to season your money for TWO MONTHS because you are starting over, simply get the extension during the last 30 days of your 90 day stay. For the first part, the O visa, go in right away after entering on your 30 day stamp. I would have your proof of banked money ready to show at that time, though the application can't happen until it is seasoned.

b. Go to Laos or Malaysia and apply for a single entry O based on being over 50 and just say you will apply for the retirement extension in Thailand. Then with 30 days left on your 90 day stay, apply for your annual extension based on retirement

c. You could also get a tourist visa in a neighboring country, and do the two step process mentioned in option A. Not sure why you would do that though if you can get a single entry O instead

Good luck.

Thank you for your detailed answer. (looks like I am not the only insomniac - night owl)

If I use option b and go to Laos, which is the closest, do I just cross the border or do I need anything else like a re-entry visa as my original visa is still valid? i will then follow the rest of the steps and the money should be seasoned by then.

.

First off, correction to option A:

a. - Fly in and out of Thailand, get a 30 day stamp.

s/b

a. - Fly out and in to Thailand, get a 30 day stamp.

Regarding your question:

Option B.

You need to go to an embassy or consulate. More than crossing a border in case you didn't get that.

I assume you'll be seeking a single entry O visa there rather than a tourist visa.

Vientiane Laos (Thai embassy) and Penang (consulate) or KL (embassy) Malaysia should be friendly for this.

Why would you need a reentry permit to preserve your current permission to stay when you are traveling to get a NEW single entry O visa? Your old visa stuff will be gone as your intention is to enter Thailand and use your NEW single entry O visa. You're starting fresh.

When applying for a single entry O visa, ask for a single entry O visa. Do NOT ask for a retirement visa or an O-A visa as those are not possible so you'll only confuse the issue by asking. For reason put down you intend to apply for a retirement extension in Thailand. Being over 50 alone should get you the visa. But bring anything else you can such as proof of residence and your bank balance information in case it might help.

Again, the money seasoning requirement for your fresh, new application for retirement extension will be TWO months, not three months. The next year, it will again be three months.

Another thing you need to consider is the TIMING of your planned trip to Laos (or Malaysia). If I were you and was going to start over I would want to USE UP my full current permission to stay. So in your case you don't have to leave until 12 September. But ... you will be reeentering with a 90 day single entry visa and immigration won't want to see you for your annual retirement extension application until the LAST 30 days of that 90 day stay. That means your bank account can't go one baht under 800K for two months AFTER 12 September in this example. If like many people you use the 800K for living/spending you need to make sure it's topped up enough to handle that. Or take the trip sooner and waste some of your current permission to stay if that makes it easier to stay over 800K during the projected seasoning period. A bit to think about. I didn't make the rules.

Edited July 2, 201214 yr by Jingthing

The question of how small the amount in the income letter can be for a combination application to be accepted as a combination application (in regards to no money seasoning needed for the banked amount) is a question that has been asked for many years now and basically can't really be definitively answered. Under the rules, TECHNICALLY, an income letter showing 100 baht annual income plus bank balance should be accepted as a combination application. But the reality of enforcement when the income shown in the letter is low is that there are no guarantees. Sorry but that's the deal. Even if someone says it worked for me with a very low income letter one year, one office wouldn't prove much at all. I would say its worth a try! Because if you do a combination application with a low income letter, they are free to be lenient (which is actually following the rules). Too late on the seasoning and they don't really have the choice but to reject the application.

Lets say I hsd only 100.000 baht seasoned how much would I need to show income for?

The question of how small the amount in the income letter can be for a combination application to be accepted as a combination application (in regards to no money seasoning needed for the banked amount) is a question that has been asked for many years now and basically can't really be definitively answered. Under the rules, TECHNICALLY, an income letter showing 100 baht annual income plus bank balance should be accepted as a combination application. But the reality of enforcement when the income shown in the letter is low is that there are no guarantees. Sorry but that's the deal. Even if someone says it worked for me with a very low income letter one year, one office wouldn't prove much at all. I would say its worth a try! Because if you do a combination application with a low income letter, they are free to be lenient (which is actually following the rules). Too late on the seasoning and they don't really have the choice but to reject the application.

Lets say I hsd only 100.000 baht seasoned how much would I need to show income for?

For the combo method, the income plus banked money simply needs to be at least 800K baht. So 100K baht banked money, you'd need 700K annual income.

Here is my experience in a similar situation:

I have just been to Penang to sort my miss matched days of money arriving late..... to make up my 800,000 baht, plus.... (10 days late) .... mine was not first year, so the three month seasoning applies.

However the new three months started the day the O visa was issued in Penang or crossing backacross, the border at Sadeo, which was the next day... .

When getting back I checked with Samui Immigration, to see when I could get the one year visa (at the time I thought it would be a new OA but that is not the case) but will get one year of extension to stay.... that will cost 1900 baht or 3800 baht depending if it's a multiply entry... (that is the same as if you were still on time) ....

What Samui immigration said is that I can apply 7 days before the 3 months visa is done, (in September) provided the 800 k remains above that cap ..... That means the money in Bank (800K) will be sitting there for almost 6 months )

That being the case, it is better to do this sooner than later.... once money in the bank.... although reading here you could get 30 visa... I was not given that option!

In Penang I paid 220 Malaysian Ringit, (not Thai baht!) that works out to roughly 2200 baht... (check the Thai Consulate or Embassy to what currency they require).

I was given an O visa good for three months. I had a medical letter, bank info letter, etc... which did not seem to be needed. (but wanted to have "just in case"! ) It is a two day process, ... day one submit application in morning, day two, in afternoon pick up visa...

In Penang and I assume other Thai Consulates or Embassies, will say if you want to get OA back, you need to go to your home country and reapply, as stated in a few posts here......

That's my story, hope it helps without more confusion!

Just one other note : One fellow person applying was dressed in a "sweat shirt" and refused service.... It's Government office, dress appropriately!

The 800k only needs to be in bank account 3 months before application for second extension of stay. It was not required by most Consulates to issue a non immigrant O visa and would never be required to have been in account 3 months for visa - only extension of stay after the first time using only bank deposit requires that.

Your information on cost of extension is correct at 1,900 but but that will always have to be paid for any extension of stay (none are multi entry). To continue extension after travel out of country requires a re-entry permit at 1,000 baht single or 3,800 baht multi entry. So if you want both at time of application you will have to pay 5,700 baht.

It is my strong feeling that in the OP's case, if he enters Thailand on a NEW single entry O visa (obtained in Malaysia or Laos) that his application will be treated as NEW and the money seasoning requirement will be TWO months, not three months. Meaning two months before the applicant shows up at the office to apply for an annual retirement extension. Given that the the single entry O gives a 90 day stay in Thailand that shouldn't be a problem if applying during the last 30 days.

The rule is that if using a combination of savings and income the money does not have to be in the bank for any seasoning period.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months

at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant

should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60

days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Good info.

It is my strong feeling that in the OP's case, if he enters Thailand on a NEW single entry O visa (obtained in Malaysia or Laos) that his application will be treated as NEW and the money seasoning requirement will be TWO months, not three months. Meaning two months before the applicant shows up at the office to apply for an annual retirement extension. Given that the the single entry O gives a 90 day stay in Thailand that shouldn't be a problem if applying during the last 30 days.

Thank you again everone for your datailed answers and advice. I am sure I will manage and will be able to stay in Thailand. I did not plan on this to happen, but I am releived that I do have other options. (Nancy - thank you I am fairly "fit" and still "young" and should make it!

Yes, that is correct. The seasoning period (two months or three months depending on whether its the first extension on a visa) is measured back from the date of the APPLICATION for extension, and not from the ending date of permission to stay.

Does an Embassy letter of income need to be issued 3-months before, the day of, or what exactly is their ruling? Cheers.

Thanks Jingthing for your taking the time and having the patience to post such detailed comments; most helpful, and always appreciated.

Embassy letters of income don't need to be very fresh. Totally different than bank account letters which need to super fresh. I think three months old would be accepted but as far as how stale is too stale, that's beyond me.

I think the "freshness" requirement for the income letter may depend upon how easy it is for you to obtain one. I know an American in Chiang Mai whose three month old American letter was refused. He was told to go to the American Consulate and get a new one -- not really inconvenient in Chiang Mai, just expensive because they charge $50 for the stamp.

I know someone in CM who successfully used the combo method for a retirement visa, and no ageing of funds, with an income letter of USD 433. But that person had been here many years and just mismanaged the timing of switching funds from a fixed investment to the acceptable bank account.

For income letters it would be best to use the 30 day rule. This is the time period most commonly used here. For example residence certificates issued by immigration are only valid for 30 days.

I am very surprised that a three month old embassy/consulate letter would be rejected anywhere in Thailand. Income is typically a stable thing for retirees; either you've got it or you don't. Unlike a bank account balance. Yes I understand enforcement details don't need to be connected to any logic. Thanks for the information.

Edited July 8, 201213 yr by Jingthing