Are Farangs Not To Blame For Bringing Thai Problems Upon Themselves

[kerryk]

You do realize that most people think you are a loon?

Did you practice that in the mirror ??

It is a Canadian joke. About a coin. Actually I should have said educated people.

[brit1984]

I understand the point you guys are trying to make, but you must understand that not everyone has equal difficulty identifying people of a certain race. It's ridiculous to think that people cannot usually or often be identified as Black, White, Asian - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Cambodian, etc. I have been VERY good at being able to identify and distinguish between the various races (easy) and countries (harder, but not impossible).

There are all kinds of cues visual, auditory and otherwise that give people away.

i think you may have a very hard time with me.

I look of one race, though i am not

i speak of another, of which i also am not

i behave of a 3rd and yet again i am not.

I do not even know myself what i am anymore, The only place i feel comfortable is Asia, because i am just a foreigner to most people.

In my country of birth, i did not fit in, in my country of residence i did not fit it, in my country of religion i was not accepted, so it seemed i could be an alien.

Upon my arrival to Thailand, i felt comfortable, because i was indeed identified as an alien and officially i still am

I agreed already that it's harder to tell just by looking. The truth, however, is that there are a host of other things that CAN give it away. Dress, mannerisms, certainly speech (even when speaking a non-native language), walk, etc. My point is that it IS quite possible to tell without someone telling you.

How does the walk of a Thai-Chinese person differ from the walk of a Thai-Thai person?

[brit1984]

Close enough. The point is that you can't tell someone's nationality from looking at them, and your racial classifications are merely an arbitrary categorisation with no real basis in current genetic science. The South Africans found it difficult to racially classify a lot of people, and we are considering in this thread the possibility of a much finer distinction than they ever achieved.

Apart from the opportunities for racial prejudice, I can't see any other real benefit of racial classification

SC

Absolutely a brilliant post. And beneath it are a number posts that are 100% in disagreement and never mention your post at all. You said that the only reason to identify a person by racial classification is racial prejudice. Or another words pointing out the difference between a Thai or Chinese/Thai is paramount to racial prejudice. I agree, why else would you do it? Why do Thai people think they can identify Burmese or Lao or Cambodian people? Come on tell the truth. It is because Thai people think they are superior to Burmese, Lao and Cambodian people. Yes?

So why do I get all the flack. Streetcowboy says the only benefit of racial classification is racial prejudice. So beat on him for a while.

OR you can agree with Streetcowboy's view

AND you can agree with KerryK's view

BUT ignore the unverified stats KerryK provided

[PaullyW]

I understand the point you guys are trying to make, but you must understand that not everyone has equal difficulty identifying people of a certain race. It's ridiculous to think that people cannot usually or often be identified as Black, White, Asian - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Cambodian, etc. I have been VERY good at being able to identify and distinguish between the various races (easy) and countries (harder, but not impossible).

There are all kinds of cues visual, auditory and otherwise that give people away.

i think you may have a very hard time with me.

I look of one race, though i am not

i speak of another, of which i also am not

i behave of a 3rd and yet again i am not.

I do not even know myself what i am anymore, The only place i feel comfortable is Asia, because i am just a foreigner to most people.

In my country of birth, i did not fit in, in my country of residence i did not fit it, in my country of religion i was not accepted, so it seemed i could be an alien.

Upon my arrival to Thailand, i felt comfortable, because i was indeed identified as an alien and officially i still am

I agreed already that it's harder to tell just by looking. The truth, however, is that there are a host of other things that CAN give it away. Dress, mannerisms, certainly speech (even when speaking a non-native language), walk, etc. My point is that it IS quite possible to tell without someone telling you.

Tell what? If you are from Ontario. You do realize that most people think you are a loon?

It's OK if YOU guys have no clue. I care f#ckall what anyone outside my circle care about me, thanks.

[arminbkk]

Farangs and Thailand are like a married couple: first the woman falls in love with the man, with everything that he is, then not long after marriage, she wants him to change.

Farangs come to Thailand, love the place, the laidback attitude, easy going etc etc, they stay, and soon start commenting what should change.

For the record, I'm one of those farangs too.

But I found that Thais don't want to hear from you what should change in their country, not in your language and not in theirs.

As for speaking the language: I am sure it is an advantage to be able to speak the Thai language, if only to hear

what other people are actually saying. It may not be positive but at least you will know where you stand.

Come to think of it, that could actually not be an advantage sometimes 555.

As for having meaningful conversations: I have met and know some Thais that I can have a decent conversation with,

as long as it is not too long.

Thais do not have a long attention span for 'serious' topics.

Finally, I would have to agree with some other posters that said Thais are not inquisitive/curious.

It's my experience that Thais don't really ask a lot of questions about the country I am from, life and culture there etc, after

I tell them where I am from, and/or further into the relationship (friend/work).

[StreetCowboy]

I understand the point you guys are trying to make, but you must understand that not everyone has equal difficulty identifying people of a certain race. It's ridiculous to think that people cannot usually or often be identified as Black, White, Asian - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Cambodian, etc. I have been VERY good at being able to identify and distinguish between the various races (easy) and countries (harder, but not impossible).

There are all kinds of cues visual, auditory and otherwise that give people away.

i think you may have a very hard time with me.

I look of one race, though i am not

i speak of another, of which i also am not

i behave of a 3rd and yet again i am not.

I do not even know myself what i am anymore, The only place i feel comfortable is Asia, because i am just a foreigner to most people.

In my country of birth, i did not fit in, in my country of residence i did not fit it, in my country of religion i was not accepted, so it seemed i could be an alien.

Upon my arrival to Thailand, i felt comfortable, because i was indeed identified as an alien and officially i still am

I agreed already that it's harder to tell just by looking. The truth, however, is that there are a host of other things that CAN give it away. Dress, mannerisms, certainly speech (even when speaking a non-native language), walk, etc. My point is that it IS quite possible to tell without someone telling you.

How does the walk of a Thai-Chinese person differ from the walk of a Thai-Thai person?

In the same way that you would walk differently if you had one Scottish grandparent, I imagine.

Or perhaps if youkicked with the other foot; or batted for the other side

SC

[PaullyW]

Chinese style walk (hands behind back, often hunched over) -- attached

Couldn't find a pic, but Thais tend to walk quite differently (less shuffling of the feet), wider, longer steps, etc. Quite possibly something to do with the heat.

Edited July 6, 2012 by PaullyW

[brit1984]

Chinese style walk (hands behind back, often hunched over) -- attached

Couldn't find a pic, but Thais tend to walk quite differently (less shuffling of the feet), wider, longer steps, etc. Quite possibly something to do with the heat.

Maybe we should scrap passports and just train immigration officers to recognise the various national walking styles...

[StreetCowboy]

Chinese style walk (hands behind back, often hunched over) -- attached

Couldn't find a pic, but Thais tend to walk quite differently (less shuffling of the feet), wider, longer steps, etc. Quite possibly something to do with the heat.

Maybe we should scrap passports and just train immigration officers to recognise the various national walking styles...

Poor John Cleese...

You can tell by the way I walk...

And as for John Inman, well, walk this way, please...

and what about the Imam's mate King, who's knuckles drag along the ground when he walks?

yeshouldaeseenwhittheydonetaehismotor by the way boys.

SC

EDIT: Least said, soonest mended, eh?

[PaullyW]

Chinese style walk (hands behind back, often hunched over) -- attached

Couldn't find a pic, but Thais tend to walk quite differently (less shuffling of the feet), wider, longer steps, etc. Quite possibly something to do with the heat.

Maybe we should scrap passports and just train immigration officers to recognise the various national walking styles...

Great idea.

[maxme]

@phl

What, you never heard of that? I've seen people still suffering from that down at Khao San road...

Edited July 6, 2012 by maxme

[chrisspursbkk1]

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. imho.

[somtumlion]

All you farang look the same too me, too. Unfortunately.

[maxme]

All you farang look the same too me, too. Unfortunately.

To be fair that's the standard Thai guy in Nakhon Si Thammarat these days. Guess the locals are catching on

[Kilgore Trout]

I understand the point you guys are trying to make, but you must understand that not everyone has equal difficulty identifying people of a certain race. It's ridiculous to think that people cannot usually or often be identified as Black, White, Asian - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Cambodian, etc. I have been VERY good at being able to identify and distinguish between the various races (easy) and countries (harder, but not impossible).

There are all kinds of cues visual, auditory and otherwise that give people away.

I think you'll find black is a colour. Darkies come in all sorts of "races" and a Fijian is just as black as your blackest negro, but a completely different race. In any fairly restricted population - Japanese, Fijians, individual tribes, people from the other side of the river, there will be "typical" characteristics that are handed down from generation to generation; but there is no single "negro" gene, and one half cast might have wiry hair, another dark hair and so forth. and when we come to the Thai Chinese, my point is that there are people who range in Thai Chinese from one chinese ancester thousands of years ago to long-term in-breeders with only a fraction of aboriginal blood in them - though of course I am led to believe that the Thai people migrated from China in an case, so really we are talking about Chinese - other Chinese mixes.

Trying to differentiate shades of grey is splitting hairs that don't exist, for the sake of establishing prejudice

I can usually pick a new Zealander if I look at one.

How do you know ET is a catholic?

Because he looks like one.

Are there any catholics in this car?

No, of course not.

Sorry, mate, its just they look more and more like us all the time.

Some academic research into prejudice in Northern Ireland offered up a set of photographs to a sample of protestants and a sample of catholics.

Both samples consistently chose the same photos as 'looking catholic' or protestant. Two different samples were asked to classify the photographs in terms of trustworthy or untrustworthy. Again, the classifications were consistent across the groups. And were correlated with the classifications in the first test. (EDIT:by the way, this is an entirely honest recollection of reported research, and not one of my allegedly witty anecdotes)

Sometimes we are not aware of our prejudices, and the effect that they have on our opinions and our behaviour.

I suppose we are lucky that we are able to parade our stupidity on these fora, that others can point out the errors of our ways, where we are ourselves blinded to those errors

SC

Darkies, negro, half caste......

I guess we have got Archie Bunker over here

[phl]

All you farang look the same too me, too. Unfortunately.

Absolutely

[hbullinger]

If you know the basics for directing a Taxi driver and some of the items on a menu and maybe some swear words, you are getting by, at least in Bangkok.

One blessing of not speaking and understanding Thai is that all the chit-chat from Thais around you - mostly women - which usually is nothing more than background noise - doesn't affect you in the slightest. Thai people employ the same philosophy with English language. Have you ever noticed that when you have a conversation with someone in English a non English speaking Thai person interrupts you mid sentence, not because he/she is rude, but their ears are closed to English, so they don't realise that you are talking at all.

[Lifer]

Dang, another 10 pages of argument over a newbie know it all's rediculous post.

[NoshowJones]

I had to learn French at school half a century ago and was a complete failure, so in your opinion how can l now learn Thai, l tried and am still a language failure. So where do l stand in your opinion.?

I think that you are one of those that looks at stuff through your own eyes and abilities and not thinking of others abilities, sadly.

Transam. When I was learning French at school (I've forgotten it all now) the teacher was also speaking English, explaining what the English words were in French. I have just started learning Thai in Bangkok, and the teacher never uses English, I understand they are not allowed to, (I have only had three lessons so far) and when I was taking part in a conversation exercise obviously in Thai, I was speaking Thai not knowing what I was talking about. But as I said, I have only had three lessons.

[personchester]

You should not generalise your own view and feelings, therefore just pronounce and clarify it as your own opinion, then forum readers will access and analyse your outline according to their own judgement.

[Parvis]

Thai is difficult to learn for anyone not having the motivation to learn - AT ALL AGES.

Just listen to the many farangs claiming

1) Thai is only spoken in Thailand - why learn it

2) It is sooo complicated

3) I am too old - I don't need it

Well - I came to Thailand in my early 60th - now I am pushing 70. A few years ago when I started learning the language - a Thai Language School owner suggested, when I complained about his poor material "You are too old - it is a known fact that as you age you lose your ability to learn" - well - he had no problem accepting my 22,500 baht of tuition for 30 hours of private lessons and certainly never apologized. It is interesting to find out that my Thai ability surpasses his.

This is when I learned the difference between Thai Language Schools and Thai Ed Visa mills.

Now I speak and read Thai - quite fluently - on many subjects - mostly self taught.

I can choose not to understand. I even claim to understand Thai people from a psychological level.

The morale of my story - Learn Thai, it will open a new perspective of Thai-culture and Thai-people, You may even find - even as you age - you will get a sense of satisfaction - it will "turn you on" (known as dopamine).

Edited July 8, 2012 by Parvis

[thehappyfarang]

i started learning Thai so that I could understand my (ex) girlfriend better. She just started chatting to her mates in Isaan dialect instead.

[transam]

Thai is difficult to learn for anyone not having the motivation to learn - AT ALL AGES.

Just listen to the many farangs claiming

1) Thai is only spoken in Thailand - why learn it

2) It is sooo complicated

3) I am too old - I don't need it

Well - I came to Thailand in my early 60th - now I am pushing 70. A few years ago when I started learning the language - a Thai Language School owner suggested, when I complained about his poor material "You are too old - it is a known fact that as you age you lose your ability to learn" - well - he had no problem accepting my 22,500 baht of tuition for 30 hours of private lessons and certainly never apologized. It is interesting to find out that my Thai ability surpasses his.

This is when I learned the difference between Thai Language Schools and Thai Ed Visa mills.

Now I speak and read Thai - quite fluently - on many subjects - mostly self taught.

I can choose not to understand. I even claim to understand Thai people from a psychological level.

The morale of my story - Learn Thai it opens a new perspective of Thailand, You may even find - even as you age you will get a sense of satisfaction - it will "turn you on" (known as dopamine).

Again, you are looking at it from your learning capability of your brain cells taking stuff on board. Every heard of Dyslexia ?. I don't have to explain here as l am sure you know what it is.

Can these folk spell their native tongue ?

Give me a set of tools and l will rebuild your engine with out thinking about it. Give me a mig welder and l will fix your chassis without thinking about it. Give me a lathe and l will machine anything thinking a little bit about it . It comes naturally to me, BUT languages, noooooooooo.

[Kwasaki]

Thai is difficult to learn for anyone not having the motivation to learn - AT ALL AGES.

Just listen to the many farangs claiming

1) Thai is only spoken in Thailand - why learn it

2) It is sooo complicated

3) I am too old - I don't need it

Well - I came to Thailand in my early 60th - now I am pushing 70. A few years ago when I started learning the language - a Thai Language School owner suggested, when I complained about his poor material "You are too old - it is a known fact that as you age you lose your ability to learn" - well - he had no problem accepting my 22,500 baht of tuition for 30 hours of private lessons and certainly never apologized. It is interesting to find out that my Thai ability surpasses his.

This is when I learned the difference between Thai Language Schools and Thai Ed Visa mills.

Now I speak and read Thai - quite fluently - on many subjects - mostly self taught.

I can choose not to understand. I even claim to understand Thai people from a psychological level.

The morale of my story - Learn Thai, it will open a new perspective of Thai-culture and Thai-people, You may even find - even as you age - you will get a sense of satisfaction - it will "turn you on" (known as dopamine).

Good post and I must say I do not have the motivation to learn Thai.

I do like the script and enjoy writing it and trying to read some of it.

I can understand quite a lot from listening to a Thai speaking if they talk a bit slower.

My only defense is I am a lousy singer and I have great difficulty with the tones, maybe I,m tone deaf as in many words I can never pronounce Thai correctly.

I'm OK at getting over what I want though, I have become a very good Mime artist.

[how241]

I choose NOT to learn more thai as I would end up speaking my mind about all the BS that goes on here.

My lack of proficiency allows me to have a rant and no one knows what I am talking about. I can then calm down and nobody is any the wiser.

The language barrier here can be a wonderful thing

Some truth here.

[pattayadingo]

i started learning Thai so that I could understand my (ex) girlfriend better. She just started chatting to her mates in Isaan dialect instead.

Had to laugh at this one

[pattayadingo]

I learned my limited Thai in Central Thailand and here in Pattaya it is virtually impossible for all the Issan women to understand me. So I revert to English.

When I teach some Thai English they get a broad North of England dialect and others cannot understand their English

Imagine a Thai woman with a broad Scots accent !!!!!

Edited July 8, 2012 by pattayadingo

[edwinclapham]

I learned my limited Thai in Central Thailand and here in Pattaya it is virtually impossible for all the Issan women to understand me. So I revert to English.

When I teach some Thai English they get a broad North of England dialect and others cannot understand their English

Imagine a Thai woman with a broad Scots accent !!!!!

Its when my wife escalates her sentences at the end , that I have to laugh! (Ozzie style)

[Kwasaki]

I choose NOT to learn more thai as I would end up speaking my mind about all the BS that goes on here.

My lack of proficiency allows me to have a rant and no one knows what I am talking about. I can then calm down and nobody is any the wiser.

The language barrier here can be a wonderful thing

Best post IMO.

Ohhh so it is you who i see often speaking to yourself and ranting about something

I speak to my self too sometimes, my Mrs says " why you do that " I say because I'm the only around here that makes any sense.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Kwasaki

[Tchooptip]

Yes it's true to a certain extent. A lot of the frustrations and problems that many farang have could be reduced by learning even a small bit of basic Thai. It doesn't solve everything of course, but it is not a coincidence that the biggest complainers with the most problems are usually the people who can barely even order a plate of khao pad on their own.

Maybe first of all, a small bit of Thai culture too !