Wife Wants To Stay With Our Son Against My Will

[Djens]

Thanks for some of the advice. I'll certainly be here for a while, until I resolve this problem. Right now the only thing I can do is stand firm and tell my wife NO WAY, and hope she will stop. In the meantime I'm looking at alternatives ...

[phl]

Thanks for some of the advice. I'll certainly be here for a while, until I resolve this problem. Right now the only thing I can do is stand firm and tell my wife NO WAY, and hope she will stop. In the meantime I'm looking at alternatives ...

right now you really need to be delicate.

before when you were in Belgium it was ok, but now with family around her, you no longer have the voice. as it is you are now after the buffalo in the next village, especially because no money is coming their way

you need to somehow get her away from the family to be able to reason with her.

perhaps a holiday trip away or something.to get them out of her ears

[steelepulse]

If he's the legal father, he can't lose his kid.

What planet are you on!

In every country in the world, the father can lose the kid.

Here it's dead easy, mum just changes address, and dad never sees the kid again.

Feel free to do a search here on Thai visa for " joint custody divorce" or anything close to that. Hundreds of threads about it that explain the Thai courts are of the opinion that parents should have joint custody. Whether she pulls a disappearing act is a different story, but if she did she'd be cutting off her gravy train.

[Djens]

I'll do that, thanks. I still hope I'll be able to convince her to come back, maybe she is trying to push me to tell her that I agree, but I won't do that. She certainly thinks she can influence me on the matter, since I bought her a car ... but now it's not about money, it's about a living being that I love so much and is my son.

She's strange. Acting perfectly normal, unless she speaks about the subject, she seems convinced I'm going back alone. I told her that I won't make her pregnant here in Thailand, that if she wanted another child, no problem, but in Belgium. She just doesn't believe me, and is convinced that I can't resist the urge of having a sexual relation. She said something like "You sure you don't want to make love before you leave". Talk about weird stuff ... Can't understand how people can think like that.

[gregb]

I'll do that, thanks. I still hope I'll be able to convince her to come back, maybe she is trying to push me to tell her that I agree, but I won't do that. She certainly thinks she can influence me on the matter, since I bought her a car ... but now it's not about money, it's about a living being that I love so much and is my son.

She's strange. Acting perfectly normal, unless she speaks about the subject, she seems convinced I'm going back alone. I told her that I won't make her pregnant here in Thailand, that if she wanted another child, no problem, but in Belgium. She just doesn't believe me, and is convinced that I can't resist the urge of having a sexual relation. She said something like "You sure you don't want to make love before you leave". Talk about weird stuff ... Can't understand how people can think like that.

I feel very bad for you. Truly. That kind of behavior is definitely worrying. You may not have seen that kind of thing before living in Belgium, but it doesn't bode well for any kind of rational resolution to this problem.

If I were you, I would start preparing for the worst at this point. You may not have lost your wife yet, but she may be beyond your influence for the moment and you are heading down a road with no good outcome. I would tell her in no uncertain terms that you will not be leaving Thailand without your son. Thais do not like confrontation in general, and when she realizes this is going to be a big battle she may decide to act differently. Do keep in mind Thais will usually try and take the easiest path to get what they want. Many times, that means outright ignoring any data that doesn't fit with their desire and hoping it goes away. Your job at this point is to make ignoring reality the more difficult one. If you make negotiation the less confrontational approach, you may find her willing to talk. Keep in mind...confrontation. Thais don't like it. You have to make talk about returning to Belgium = No confrontation, stay in Thailand = Terrible confrontation all the time.

Any time she says anything about leaving, I would respond with respond with "I won't be leaving without my son" in a highly aggressive manner and tone of voice, and then calmly talk about the low paying English teaching jobs you will apply for and how little money the two of you are going to have as a result of her decision. (Also, it may be prudent to start talking about the realities of divorce and how little money she will get it if that is what she decides to do. In fact, she will get nothing if she files in Thailand and you can get primary custody, and if she does return to Belgium at least the child will stay in Belgium.) Again, make this her decision, but make sure she understands you will not be returning to Belgium without your son in any circumstance. I'm sure she misses her family and wants to stay in Thailand. It is time she realized that that decision means she will have to live like a poor, possibly divorced, rural Thai.

My advice: If you ignore this problem, it will only get worse. Make her uncomfortable enough now that she is forced to take a different approach. You achieve nothing by going along. She is being influenced by her parents, which isn't necessarily bad, but it is highly unlikely they have your best interests in mind. They want their daughter and their grandchild, and she quite clearly wants to stay. Nobody is thinking about you. It is time you make everyone understand the consequences of that. Oh, and if she does decide to start talking with you about this, be understanding. It isn't easy being away from your culture and the people you love. But she did make a decision to marry you and have a child with you, and there are consequences to that. Let her know she can stay behind without the child and without being pregnant, and you will wait for her to come back home.

[KeyserSoze01]

Having another child now, when you are unemployed and the relationship is strained, is simply irresponsible.

If you take the hard line with her, you will lose her and your son.

If you cave in to her wishes and go home alone, you will lose her and your son.

Thai women don't transplant very well unless they have a support network to lean on in a foreign country.

The family is poisoning the relationship because you are not able to provide big money.

If you want to preserve your family, you have to find a way to earn a living in Thailand. The TEFL route is the cheapest, easiest way to make some baht until you can sort something else. Get your wife and child away from the family and lead a new life as an ajarn in Thailand.

[Bung]

Ex bar girl back at the family home after being away in Belgium for a couple of years, they will be looking for the big money. It hasn't happened so they say to stay and keep your son as collateral.

They will start to make big demands with all sorts of excuses once you are away. It will prey on your concious that you are worried about how your son is being looked after.

This will go on and on.

You girl is your partner and if she loves you she will stay with you through thick and thin, good times and lean times.

Be firm. Tell her that if she loves you she should stand by your decision as the bread winner. If not I you will need to work ut a budget for her and stick with that but be prepared for a long battle.

Do you really need to be on the other side of the world worrying about getting a job as well as worrying about the welfare of your son?

What of his education? Do you want it to be in outback Issaan? Belgium is pretty good in that respect.

Many good Thai ladies love a guy who is a good father and single.

I would seriously consider taking him back to Belgium with you as hard as that might be it may be the better option long term.

I am speaking from experience.

I hope you can convince her to just come home with you and keep being a family and stick it out in the bad and good times, it is what makes a strong relationship. Unfortunately there is very few bar girls who will see it this way.

[orchis]

it seems there is not much love lost between the two of you. But for some reason she wants another luuk kreung.

[MANICMINER]

Kidnapping is no solution and can get you in very serious trouble. Besides, you want to stay with both.

There is no law in Thailand preventing a married man from taking his child home with him, as you well know.

It is right that a father cannot been charged with kidnapping his own son in Thailand, but he may have problems at passport control, as he may be stopped from boarding the plane, if the child entered on a Thai passport.

[Dibbler]

It sounds like your wife has not adjusted to life in Belgium and wants to be in Thailand. Can you blame her? For an uneducated Thai (or some educated Thais) it would be hell living away from food, family and Thai culture. If you are paying the bills but you don't have employment back in Belgium then if you want to stay with your wife and son, perhaps the best move would be to find some work in Thailand. You'll have to put off having a second child until you can support your existing family. If you don't have any qualifications, perhaps you could contact your Belgium Embassy and see if there are opportunities for you in Bangkok. Alternatively if you can speak Flemish, perhaps you could find work as a language teacher at one of the many private language schools around Bangkok? If at all possible find a place to stay away from her family so you don't end up paying their bills.

[meatboy]

Yep, it speaks for itself. Met her in a bar like 5 years ago. Has never left my side since then, or only for 2 weeks when visiting her family once. No real education, left school to go work in a factory before trying the bar scene, but not for a long time. Isaan girl, family living in the sticks ... but owning land, a house, and a car (my wife) that I'm paying for.

If you leave her in Thailand, she will be back in a bar the next week, and the kid will be living with grandma on the farm.

You didn't have as much money as she originally thought, so she's bailing, to look for another mark, that's just the way it works.

Very common, seen it happen loads of times.

When the guy runs out of cash, the girl runs out the door.

you beat me to it tommy after 30years i have more or less seen and heard it all,every thai girl thinks marrying a falang is her dream come true sadly a lot ends up like this one,the family only what he has said got the car,the daughter has a kid,the op has no money ,no job so the only way she knows how to get out of it is what she wants to do,wanting another kid is only a bluff to try to smooth things over,someone is going to get hurt and its not her,she will leave the kid with her parents and off she will go and find another farang.never how much money you send the kid will not see much of it,the only way out is go back home send what money you can and after awhile make a flying visit without telling anyone.if she is genuine she will be looking after the kid[very unlikely] then if you dont like what you see you can go down the road fighting her for custody but it will cost you.i feel very sorry for you and hope some newbies read your story and not end up in the same situation.good luck and dont be too embarrassed to let us know how things work out.

[brit1984]

The fact that she was previously a sex worker doesn't make her a bad person (per se) but the fact that she became one does mean there were some serious issues with her upbringing and education (or lack of education).

You should be particularly worried that she is now back with her family in the same environment that previously resulted in her becoming a prostitute. Number one priority, in my opinion, should be getting her away from those negative influences.

For the sake of the kid(s) you should try to make things work. This will need to be in Thailand initially but should be away from her destructive past. She is only a human (with issues) and it will take time for you to get her head straight.

However, if you show her love, loyalty and patience, and give her a taste of a positive family experience (which I guess she never had) by spending happy times together (also with your kid) I think everything may turn out just fine in the end.

[CWMcMurray]

After reading through all the posts... The best advice given has been by Brit1984...

I agree with all he has said

[meatboy]

After reading through all the posts... The best advice given has been by Brit1984...

I agree with all he has said

i would agree to but he has no money so he cant stay in thailand,that would be 90% of the problem.

[brit1984]

After reading through all the posts... The best advice given has been by Brit1984...

I agree with all he has said

i would agree to but he has no money so he cant stay in thailand,that would be 90% of the problem.

He must have some money because he has said he can afford to stay a few months.

He has can use this money to do a teaching course and find a job as a teacher in Bangkok.

This will provide enough salary to pay for a small apartment, food and bills.

Over time he can find other ways to supplement or grow his income if necessary.

Life will (obviously) not be perfect but any alternative would probably be disastrous.

[CWMcMurray]

he didn't say he had no money... he said he has enough to continue to vacation in Thailand for a couple more months and then go back to Belgium to look for work.

Which means he probably has a bit more budgeted to hold him over until he has found a job.

So what if instead of vacationing, he spent the next 2 months actively finding employment in Bangkok?

[Djens]

I'll answer everyone's post tomorrow, after a good night sleep. I went to Khon Kaen today with wife and kid to apply for his Thai passport. This was already planned before.

[TommoPhysicist]

I'll answer everyone's post tomorrow, after a good night sleep. I went to Khon Kaen today with wife and kid to apply for his Thai passport. This was already planned before.

Sounds like you are doing everything you can to let her take the kid.

Why would anyone do something as daft as get the kid a Thai passport ....

Now he can travel with her alone ........ before he needed you along.

[kennkate]

Djens. you are in the river without a paddle I do feel for you.

You have tried to do your best for your child and your wife.

You took her back to Farangland and no doubt she thought the streets were paved with Gold. She thought she would be rich.

Most of us know it's not like that. Sure on the avarage wage is higher but so are the bills. The problem is getting that message across to them.

I do not think for one moment she will go back with you now, Or at a later date. Unless you can offer her a royal lifestyle.

I am sorry my friend but I think she just wants you to support her and your child.

If you return alone no doubt she will get pregnant again and if its possible time wise say you are the father more support needed.

This is only my personal opinion But I am 71 I would never say that I know everthing but I have seen a bit of life.

If you leave on your own you May get the child but it is going to cost you How much that is would depend on your negotiating skills.

Please keep us informed and Best of luck

[meatboy]

After reading through all the posts... The best advice given has been by Brit1984...

I agree with all he has said

i would agree to but he has no money so he cant stay in thailand,that would be 90% of the problem.

He must have some money because he has said he can afford to stay a few months.

He has can use this money to do a teaching course and find a job as a teacher in Bangkok.

This will provide enough salary to pay for a small apartment, food and bills.

Over time he can find other ways to supplement or grow his income if necessary.

Life will (obviously) not be perfect but any alternative would probably be disastrous.

what do they do in the meantime exs.for a teaching course,then look for a job,u say in bkk.where is he going to live who is going to keep his wife and kid there are many qualified teachers here looking for work one lives by me and he has been out of work more times than in,i told you have seen toooooooooooo many of these cases.he would be clutching at straws to go down this road the kid is his main priority,he must not let it become their atm.

[prighas]

You need to show her you can live without her around. Your baby can adjust to any comfortable condition - matter of a week or so.

When she realizes you can do this, she'll wake up to her senses and think of her family. If she still chooses to stay back, this should mean her interests are ahead of yours and the family.

[brit1984]

After reading through all the posts... The best advice given has been by Brit1984...

I agree with all he has said

i would agree to but he has no money so he cant stay in thailand,that would be 90% of the problem.

He must have some money because he has said he can afford to stay a few months.

He has can use this money to do a teaching course and find a job as a teacher in Bangkok.

This will provide enough salary to pay for a small apartment, food and bills.

Over time he can find other ways to supplement or grow his income if necessary.

Life will (obviously) not be perfect but any alternative would probably be disastrous.

what do they do in the meantime exs.for a teaching course,then look for a job,u say in bkk.where is he going to live who is going to keep his wife and kid there are many qualified teachers here looking for work one lives by me and he has been out of work more times than in,i told you have seen toooooooooooo many of these cases.he would be clutching at straws to go down this road the kid is his main priority,he must not let it become their atm.

I was offered a teaching job by a friend of my in-laws (a head teacher) even though I had no teaching qualifications or experience. She said she wanted to hire me because I am young (like the OP) so she could sack the current English teacher because he is old.

That was upcountry and they offered 30k/month so I am assuming in Bangkok (especially if the OP gets a certificate) he can expect +40k. If he supplements this income with private tutoring or other unrelated online work (such as odesk) he can definitely make +50k. He is not going to be living the high life but he can rent a small apartment and they can eat Thai food (which his wife probably prefers anyway).

With this strategy, he can keep his family together but (importantly) get his wife away from her destructive family. This is the only possible way to get her head straight (and potentially achieve a happy outcome).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[meatboy]

i hope this is not the case but i think deep down she has made up her mind she wants out.regarding his finaces he still has 2yrs left to pay on a car that his inlaws are useing.there is a new topic started yesterday in the general forum by smallviking about a young man his age he should read it.

[TommoPhysicist]

i hope this is not the case but i think deep down she has made up her mind she wants out.regarding his finaces he still has 2yrs left to pay on a car that his inlaws are useing.there is a new topic started yesterday in the general forum by smallviking about a young man his age he should read it.

He doesn't have to make any payments on the car at all.

Foreigner with no work permit ........ can't have a loan ....... someone else's name ....... someone else's problem.

[Djens]

Sorry for not using the quote feature. I'm answering to you guys right now, then I'll put the latest news on.

TommoPhysicist: Ok, let me explain. I came to Thailand with a 3 month visa for myself, but didn't make any visa for my son. We planned to make him his Thai passport long before we came here to Thailand, and to exit Thailand on his Thai passport, saving us the visa fee. Now, I'm the one who holds the travel documents, and when his Thai passport arrives by EMS, I'll keep it too. I'll see what my wife's reaction is to that, if she even notifies me that his passport arrived, if she wants to keep it instead of me ,etc ... Yes, I agree, she can now travel outside of Thailand with the kid but I doubt she would do that. I could be wrong, I'm not saying I know for a fact she won't do it, but to me it feels like she is a victim of her own family and external influence, she's not a bad person unless proven otherwhise. So far, she only has an idea/wish/request that I don't agree with because I don't want to let my son live here while I'm working in Belgium.

kennkate: Thank you for your input, Ken. Life experience is always great to have, I'm only 26 but I have learned a lot from my experience in and out of Thailand. I'm still making mistakes, and wish I would be harder. It's up to me right now to be harder and show that I'm not simply someone who says yes to everything. I'm surely keeping everyone informed.

Meatboy: Exactly! I don't have a lot of knowledge of ajarns here in thailand, but I once did the research myself when I lives here for a year and when my business failed. I don't hold a degree, I even once thought about going to school here in Thailand, but in the end it didn't seemed a great idea because the degree wouldn't be ok to teach as the regulations seems to change and get stricter year by year. Now TIT, but I didn't want to take that risk. Maybe I should have, but I didn't get much of support from my family back then about that idea, and at first, for my wife that was a big NO. Scared of the young thai uni girls ... ^^'

prighas: That's why I said to Ken that I'd like to be a tougher man. I'm thinking about my son and the fact he needs his mom too. I'll do some research about that, how a kid can adjust without a mom, be it temporary or long term.

brit1984: I'm not dismissing your suggestions. I'm surely going to think about it, but I'm considering it a plan B. Plan A would be to go back with wife and son, work in Belgium, send my son to school when he's old enough and live there, come to thailand for holidays.

A more general response now

Ok say I don't have money like I used to when I came to thailand to live here for a year. Parents could help out, they did it the past, and would certainly help me again even if it's not always easy, but I don't want to be dependant on them again. That's why like I said to Brit, going back to Belgium would be my top priority. But not without wife & son, well at least not without my son.

So yesterday, my wife had an idea. She was speaking to me about wanting to rent an appartment somewhere. Reasons : It's hot here in the village's house, and she is bored (!). Where, I asked? Answer was, Chonburi Pattaya (alarm!!). Because her sister will certainly be back to work (it doesn't work out with her current Boyfriend), and her sister would like to buy a motorbike in pattaya to move around, thus great for my wife too ... and her parents could come along for a week ... a great holiday for them (Again ...alarm).

I then said, well you want to spend the next 2 months in Pattaya before coming back? She again said she isn't coming back, and I said that our son was coming back. Strangely, she then didn't argue with it and told my son "You are going home with Daddy?" ...

I don't take it for granted. Could be just a strange episode in her head, a test, could be genuine though. But if it's genuine, then it's very strange. I think that if she allows me to go back with our son to Belgium, but she wants to stay here in Thailand, be pregnant, and rent an appartment in Chonburi, it could only mean one thing. Going to work in a bar ... I told her straight aheady that I think she'd do that ... she told me "Who'd like to have relationship with a pregnant girl?" ...

Sigh ... She seems so convinced she is going to be pregnant. If I don't touch my wife for the next 2 months (I'm a guy but for god's sake, it's not a problem!), she won't get pregnant, at least not from me.

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, even with my son at my side, if she stays here in Thailand. But it would still be better than to have both of them in Thailand. But I'm sure that it's just another crazy idea she has, and that by the end of the week, she will have another one.

[Djens]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add : If I can get the sister away from the house, without my wife following her ... and since her brother is going back to work soon, she'd be bored at home. I can't chase her parents away, but if in the day there are working at the farm, my wife would be bored ... I don't know if that could lead to her wanting to come back to Belgium or make things worse with her crazy new ideas. But I think that her sister has to get away from my wife, she is a bar girl that only thinks about money, she said it herself. And the mom knows her daughter is a bar girl, but doesn't do anything about it. Even after a failed marriage, and 2 relationships that went pear shaped.

[Djens]

i hope this is not the case but i think deep down she has made up her mind she wants out.regarding his finaces he still has 2yrs left to pay on a car that his inlaws are useing.there is a new topic started yesterday in the general forum by smallviking about a young man his age he should read it.

My biggest regret of my life right now, that car. inlaws aren't even using it when I'm away. Or at least, not driving it. If they really have to go somewhere, it's the brother who drives (who has no licence and isn't even old enough to drive) or they pay someone to drive.

If I somehow go back with my son, then yes I'll use that against her, telling her that I won't send any money unless she comes back. If she somehow doesn't want to comeback, and is going to work in a bar, I could use that against her for later on if needed. She could also just go to work with her brother, going to sell food to the workers who build houses etc ... but not sure, with that sister around.

[brit1984]

It is clear YOU now have a choice:

A. Return to Belgium with your son and raise him as a single parent.

or

B. Try to work something out as a family unit in Thailand.

I recommend B (but I am sure others will recommend A).

If you return to Belgium now (which your wife seems to be ok with) I doubt she will have any meaningful relationship (if any) with your son (or you) going forward. You will be raising your son as a single parent which will be tough for you (and him).

I recommend you at least try to make it work in Thailand (ideally in Bangkok and definitely away from her family) for 1 or 2 years before deciding what to do longer term once your son reaches school age. This is your best chance to save your marriage and keep your family together.

Others will recommend option A, as that will get you (and your son) away from the (currently negative) influence of his mother. This option is certainly preferable if (and only if) your wife is a lost cause (mentally), which is difficult for me (or anyone) to say.

[Orac]

Just an off the wall thought but, given your wifes strong obsession with pregnancy, are you sure she may not think/know she is pregnant already. This may explain why she is so keen to stay here as it must be difficult being pregnant and having a child in a foreign country without your family around you.

[meatboy]

if she has told your son he is going home with daddy get his flight ticket and get out of this situation,i posted awhile back i have seen enough sad faces of children with no parents[mum/dad] she wants to go back to pattaya let her go,its going to hurt you but at least you will have your son,the signs are there and you realize them.keep your distance so she cant catch you again[being pregant] some of them think its no diff.to shelling peas.tell her you will pay her if she writes that she has given you permission to take your son to your home does he have his own passport or is his name on yours.oh by the way where are you staying right now.