Commune Near Chiang Mai

[Grafted]

Looking for expressions of interest from other lost souls who might consider joining in a commune setup.

Not looking for ideologues, just normal people (and partners) with an interest in sharing lifestyle and leisure time. We have land (30 Rai), and a draft plan.

If you like the idea of growing much of what you eat, living in buildings you helped make, minimizing your expenses and maximizing your enjoyment of each day then you might fit in well.

Start by sharing your thoughts here or contact me for more of mine.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

My thoughts would be that I would resist calling it a 'commune'. And you need to get the legalities worked out; you can't just start a village in Thailand, and chances are that it would resemble one.

Likely the road of the least resistance is to fit into a more common (business) structure, such as a resort. That just leaves any work permit issues to dance around, as people will be building structures and engage in farming, which I think are both prohibited occupations. So you need to call that an eco-building course, and agro-tourism, for example.

Labels are important; you need a bit of a Teflon coating around out of the ordinary stuff in Thailand.

[Semper]

Not looking for ideologues, just normal people

Sorry, no offence intended. I actually like the idea, but as Winnie said, I think it would be difficult here.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I do think it would be appealing to many people. Some people choose to live in hilltribe villages for example, hoping to find a noble, sustainable and equal society. That's usually not the case of course, as just like anywhere else, trade, capitalism, exploitation and power politics are just as ingrained as anywhere else.

So a self sufficient society as per the OP may actually work better. Either truly egalitarian run, or run as a resort business like Tao Garden. (Which has some independent society claims but at the end of the day is of course a business)

Edited July 9, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[CNXBKKMAN]

I am not an expert about this but i thought if you are a foreigner and you decide to plant some veg, spend time tending to it (as much as you like) it is perfectly legal. If you decide to make a business about it and sell your produce it may not be legal and you may have trouble getting the correct permits to make it legal.

Also if you want to spend your time farming for your own consumption or pleasure or building your own house for your own satisfaction this is legal. Only when you put yourself about as a builder or farmer for hire is it illegal as you are preventing a thai person of doing that job.

[hellodolly]

Not looking for ideologues, just normal people

Sorry, no offence intended. I actually like the idea, but as Winnie said, I think it would be difficult here.

Not that sure normal people would like that life style. Nothing wrong with it just don't think the normal person really wants to grow most of his own food. Sounds to me like there is a tendency towards being a vegan here. Once again nothing wrong with being a vegan just not the life style most people enjoy.

I think the first line covers the type of people that are looking for the life style he describes. Lonely Souls.

[hellodolly]

I am not an expert about this but i thought if you are a foreigner and you decide to plant some veg, spend time tending to it (as much as you like) it is perfectly legal. If you decide to make a business about it and sell your produce it may not be legal and you may have trouble getting the correct permits to make it legal.

Also if you want to spend your time farming for your own consumption or pleasure or building your own house for your own satisfaction this is legal. Only when you put yourself about as a builder or farmer for hire is it illegal as you are preventing a thai person of doing that job.

True just be sure you have a Thai partner to put the land in to their name. Suggest it be a honest deal as the government is talking about stopping the sale of land to foreigners who are using a false pretense. And be sure you have papers drawn up by a competent lawyer.

[ripstanley]

No foreigner can own 30 rai of land. hellodolly was a little quicker then me

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You can lease it. Which for the stated purpose sounds just fine. Also, an American can own a company that owns it.

[Pond Life]

I am not an expert about this but i thought if you are a foreigner and you decide to plant some veg, spend time tending to it (as much as you like) it is perfectly legal. If you decide to make a business about it and sell your produce it may not be legal and you may have trouble getting the correct permits to make it legal.

Also if you want to spend your time farming for your own consumption or pleasure or building your own house for your own satisfaction this is legal. Only when you put yourself about as a builder or farmer for hire is it illegal as you are preventing a thai person of doing that job.

Don't be so sure about that, officialy you need a work permit to do even volunteer work.

[Sparkles]

Not looking for ideologues, just normal people

Sorry, no offence intended. I actually like the idea, but as Winnie said, I think it would be difficult here.

Not that sure normal people would like that life style. Nothing wrong with it just don't think the normal person really wants to grow most of his own food. Sounds to me like there is a tendency towards being a vegan here. Once again nothing wrong with being a vegan just not the life style most people enjoy.

I think the first line covers the type of people that are looking for the life style he describes. Lonely Souls.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to your definition of what "normal" people are. You infer that "normal" people do not grown most of their own food.Well my wifes family must be "abnormal" as they still enjoy growing most of their own food and they are certainly not "lonely"

[KRS1]

if the commune has a nice view of the mountains tell me where to sign on. i think it would be nice to get away from everything for a while.

In Pai some of the bungalows/huts are pretty much communes where alot of long time hippies reside and contribute by mending/building/upgrading their bungalows. In Hawaii, the big Island has patches of communes scattered throughout the jungle.

As long as there aren't any silly rules, i think there would be alot of people signing on.

[Grafted]

Thanks all for contributing - questions & issues have been raised ... here's some thoughts.

1. Normal. We've all met those who live on a soapbox. Religion / Foods / Race / gender .... even vegan .. these are strong flavours .... I prefer mild with acceptance of the middle of the spectrum forming a view on normal. Its true that "Normal" will always be exactly what 'you" are. I guess its shorthand for "not strongly aligned"

2. Lonely Souls. .. I AM .... While I have a Thai partner and mix with Thai staff some of the day, I'm missing social connection. My observation is that there are a other men who are older (perhaps with a partner) who are in the same boat. Some boats have holes and with drinking comes sinking. Its easy to live 23/7 inside a concrete box, do not go so far from the sofa and TV. That has been me! I don't like that kind of me, I'm better than that and I want another challenge. All men enjoy challenge (ladies too!) .... being engaged in SHARED active leisure and purposed living is the goal here. Eg; The enjoyment of playing golf alone is a fraction of the shared experience.

3. Ownership. Land is under long term contract, with an option to buy should the laws change. (Whatever a contract means??)

4. Regulations vs Reality I'm not interested in doing anything illegal. One of the appeals of Thailand is that government is less intrusive. In this type of rural situation people just do and are happy if undisturbed. They respect a man who does something and are happy to have reasonable income which comes from respect for them and their skills.

5. The word Commune. The word is fine, the connotations are the problem. I envisage a combination of privacy and common (community). Eg it makes no sense for 10 single men to each own a washing machine a) if they are single men they may never use it, if they d,o its likely to be for less than an hour a week.

There's lots to explore. I don't want to be didactic ... other's must have envisaged some situation like this .... please contribute ideas about what would appeal to you.

[uptheos]

Not that sure normal people would like that life style.

You're absolutely right, normal people would rather jump a songtel to the nearest restaurant that buys foods loaded with pesticides.

Edited July 10, 2012 by uptheos

[OriginalPoster]

Not that sure normal people would like that life style.

You're absolutely right, normal people would rather jump a songtel to the nearest restaurant that buys foods loaded with pesticides.

I figure that of all the things that might kill me in Thailand that pesticides are pretty far down on the list.

[Semper]

Not that sure normal people would like that life style.

You're absolutely right, normal people would rather jump a songtel to the nearest restaurant that buys foods loaded with pesticides.

I figure that of all the things that might kill me in Thailand that pesticides are pretty far down on the list.

Old age?

[OriginalPoster]

Not that sure normal people would like that life style.

You're absolutely right, normal people would rather jump a songtel to the nearest restaurant that buys foods loaded with pesticides.

I figure that of all the things that might kill me in Thailand that pesticides are pretty far down on the list.

Old age?

Angry husbands, wild drivers, smog each Spring that you can't see through, oversexed woman... the list is long. Eating bratwurst and drinking doppelbocks isn't about to shorten my life expectancy at this point.

Edited July 10, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[Semper]

oversexed woman

Care to give directions where to find?

[uptheos]

Eating bratwurst and drinking doppelbocks isn't about to shorten my life expectancy at this point.

I didn't know these contained pesticides......additives yes, but pesticides?

[MESmith]

Will music by Crass be broadcast around the commune?

If so, sign me up

[Grafted]

Ah... well brought up MESmith .... as in vomited!

Nah we've already contracted The Pheasant Plucker Sisters to provide a roaming show all over your face .. oops .. I mean the place.

However knowing you are a Crass fan I'm sure you'd like to keep your hand in and follow the punk rockers slogan of "Do it Yourself"

Smiled knowingly

[OriginalPoster]

Eating bratwurst and drinking doppelbocks isn't about to shorten my life expectancy at this point.

I didn't know these contained pesticides......additives yes, but pesticides?

Can't vouch for the pesticides but if the things that I eat and drink aren't bad for you then the whole organic thing is a fraud.

Edited July 10, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[uptheos]

Eating bratwurst and drinking doppelbocks isn't about to shorten my life expectancy at this point.

I didn't know these contained pesticides......additives yes, but pesticides?

Can't vouch for the pesticides but if the things that I eat and drink aren't bad for you then the whole organic thing is a fraud.

You're saying they aren't bad for you......but hey, eat drink and be merry.......

[hellodolly]

Not looking for ideologues, just normal people

Sorry, no offence intended. I actually like the idea, but as Winnie said, I think it would be difficult here.

Not that sure normal people would like that life style. Nothing wrong with it just don't think the normal person really wants to grow most of his own food. Sounds to me like there is a tendency towards being a vegan here. Once again nothing wrong with being a vegan just not the life style most people enjoy.

I think the first line covers the type of people that are looking for the life style he describes. Lonely Souls.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to your definition of what "normal" people are. You infer that "normal" people do not grown most of their own food.Well my wifes family must be "abnormal" as they still enjoy growing most of their own food and they are certainly not "lonely"

Read the post he is looking for other lost souls.

You will find most normal people in a store or market for their food.

Two tings

1 you did not read the article and

2 You are carrying on like there is some thing wrong with being abnormal when it comes to growing your own food.

I beg to disagree with you many people prefer to grow their own food If that is your definition of Abnormal you are welcome to it. I prefer to think of it as they have different likes than others.

[OriginalPoster]

Eating bratwurst and drinking doppelbocks isn't about to shorten my life expectancy at this point.

I didn't know these contained pesticides......additives yes, but pesticides?

Can't vouch for the pesticides but if the things that I eat and drink aren't bad for you then the whole organic thing is a fraud.

You're saying they aren't bad for you......but hey, eat drink and be merry.......

Not saying that they aren't bad for me or anyone else, I'm saying that of all the things that might kill you in Thailand they are among the least likely. Sure, I could wear all hemp clothing and go vegan, but I don't believe for a second that it would increase my life expectancy.

Edited July 10, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[MESmith]

Ah... well brought up MESmith .... as in vomited!

Nah we've already contracted The Pheasant Plucker Sisters to provide a roaming show all over your face .. oops .. I mean the place.

However knowing you are a Crass fan I'm sure you'd like to keep your hand in and follow the punk rockers slogan of "Do it Yourself"

Smiled knowingly

Actually, truth be known, I'm not a fan of Crass, but prefer the more soothing melodies & harmonies of my namesake & his merry men, The Fall.

On a serious note, being a family man, living the rural life on my wife's smaller plot of land, commune life is not for me. But I wish you every success in your venture.

[FolkGuitar]

Can't vouch for the pesticides but if the things that I eat and drink aren't bad for you then the whole organic thing is a fraud.

Not so much 'fraud,' as 'mis-information.' Many crops grown using 'all natural' fertilizers rather than chemical fertilizers often retain MORE nitrates and nitrites than crops grown with chemicals...

As I've said in another thread, 'all natural' isn't necessarily better for you... It's time to ask more questions.

[hellodolly]

Ah... well brought up MESmith .... as in vomited!

Nah we've already contracted The Pheasant Plucker Sisters to provide a roaming show all over your face .. oops .. I mean the place.

However knowing you are a Crass fan I'm sure you'd like to keep your hand in and follow the punk rockers slogan of "Do it Yourself"

Smiled knowingly

As near as I can figure you have about 20 acres. How much of it are you allowing for growing food and how many people do you expect to have room for. What is the water supply like there and the power source is there a power line in to the area. Personally I am not that interested in living that particular way of life but I am interested in seeing how it would turn out. I like your description of normal. It indeed covers a wide range of people.

As I said on another post normal is a setting on the washing machine.

// Baiting comments meant to incite a bickering session have been removed. //

Edited July 11, 2012 by metisdead

[eyecatcher]

I am not an expert about this but i thought if you are a foreigner and you decide to plant some veg, spend time tending to it (as much as you like) it is perfectly legal. If you decide to make a business about it and sell your produce it may not be legal and you may have trouble getting the correct permits to make it legal.

Also if you want to spend your time farming for your own consumption or pleasure or building your own house for your own satisfaction this is legal. Only when you put yourself about as a builder or farmer for hire is it illegal as you are preventing a thai person of doing that job.

Don't be so sure about that, officialy you need a work permit to do even volunteer work.

why is it in almost every thread someone has to drop in the "you need a work permit" I dont see what business it is for you or anyone to play this card. You know as well I do, that 50% of expat here are making money which is not "strictly" by the rules

[binjalin]

I am not an expert about this but i thought if you are a foreigner and you decide to plant some veg, spend time tending to it (as much as you like) it is perfectly legal. If you decide to make a business about it and sell your produce it may not be legal and you may have trouble getting the correct permits to make it legal.

Also if you want to spend your time farming for your own consumption or pleasure or building your own house for your own satisfaction this is legal. Only when you put yourself about as a builder or farmer for hire is it illegal as you are preventing a thai person of doing that job.

Don't be so sure about that, officialy you need a work permit to do even volunteer work.

why is it in almost every thread someone has to drop in the "you need a work permit" I dont see what business it is for you or anyone to play this card. You know as well I do, that 50% of expat here are making money which is not "strictly" by the rules

it's perfectly fair to point out he needs a work permit as maybe he doesn't know that's what the forums for and then he can make an informed judgement