My Rant And Sorry

[TomTom55]

About my thread yesterday, I had been drinking a touch of whisky with a few people and had fire in my belly. Sorry if I came across somewhat brash but my point was that farang get treated very differently than Thai's, mainly by the police. I understand that in reality there is very little one can do to change things but I just had this idea of gathering people with a similar notion and making a stand. Anyway, rant over and sorry for the post,

Tom

[LucidLucifer]

I missed the rant, but that is why I avoid posting when drunk. I have in the past, but can see myself the tone of my posts sometimes changes. Profanity also inevitably creeps in.

I did read a mod comment recently that people need to take responsibilty for their posts, drunk or not. The defence of 'I was pished' won't work regarding a suspension or ban.

The comment wasn't directed at me, but I took heed.

Edited July 10, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[NomadJoe]

I had been drinking a touch of whisky

That seems to be an epidemic on TV.

On the topic of police, I read a lot about the Bangkok BIB appearing to focus on foreigners. I will say here on Phuket, the opposite is true. I see Thai's stopped more than, or at least as often as Thai's. Particularly if you get out of the beach areas. One check point occasionally on the newish bypass between Kathu (Prince of Sonkla Uni) and Chalong, (Honda Dealer) called Muang Chao Fah Road, seems to be exclusively Thai's. I get waved through while 100% of Thai's are stopped, questioned, and searched. Cars and motorbikes. They even walk down to the people that stop short of the checkpoint as they do here presumably because they don't have a helmet or license or whatever.

Interestingly, I just read that in Phuket, with a population of 1 million there are a total of 6 Highway Police officers stationed. In Phangna, although geographically much larger, has a population of 250k, there are 30 HP officers. The Phuket HP have commented that when they do a speed checkpoint, everyone they stop presents an business card stating they are the cousin of the mayor, or brother of a policeman. So I think that is why we never see the HP doing speeders n Phuket. No money in it.

Edited July 10, 2012 by NomadJoe

[giddyup]

I missed the rant, but that is why I avoid posting when drunk. I have in the past, but can see myself the tone of my posts sometimes changes. Profanity also inevitably creeps in.

I did read a mod comment recently that people need to take responsibilty for their posts, drunk or not. The defence of 'I was pished' won't work regarding a suspension or ban.

The comment wasn't directed at me, but I took heed.

The "drunk's defence" doesn't work in a court of law anymore either.

[TomTom55]

I mostly do wear my helmet but there have been times where I have been making a very short journey to say the bank down a side soi and the police are literally sat in a bar drinking stopping any Farang with a helmet on or not.

With regards to the alcohol it does not make it just which is why I am saying that I am sorry for the way it came across, we all know that alcohol lowers our inhibitions and I have had a lot of contempt for the Thai police and government lately.

[soi41]

@NomadJoe. Quote:" I see Thais stopped more often than Thais". Seem like our friend Tom is not the only one "with a touch of whiskey in his belly"

[brit1984]

Your rant was funny as was your apology. Please post more often.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[NBD]

I don't know how you guys manage this.

I've been fined twice in 3 years of living here. Once for no helmet on a motorbike and once for speeding in a car. Both true, and both times the fine was probably less than parking outside the court would have cost me for a similar offence in England.

True I don't spend a lot of time hanging around tourist resorts, but have been to Pattaya, Hua Hin, Cha Am and Samui, amongst various other fairly touristy places.

Up in Isan I've often gone straight through road blocks where locals are being fleeced of their cash. I presume the ban nork police don't want to engage with a foreigner in English?

[TomTom55]

I don't know how you guys manage this.

I've been fined twice in 3 years of living here. Once for no helmet on a motorbike and once for speeding in a car. Both true, and both times the fine was probably less than parking outside the court would have cost me for a similar offence in England.

True I don't spend a lot of time hanging around tourist resorts, but have been to Pattaya, Hua Hin, Cha Am and Samui, amongst various other fairly touristy places.

Up in Isan I've often gone straight through road blocks where locals are being fleeced of their cash. I presume the ban nork police don't want to engage with a foreigner in English?

I live in HH by the way.

[Berkshire]

I don't know how you guys manage this.

I've been fined twice in 3 years of living here. Once for no helmet on a motorbike and once for speeding in a car. Both true, and both times the fine was probably less than parking outside the court would have cost me for a similar offence in England.

True I don't spend a lot of time hanging around tourist resorts, but have been to Pattaya, Hua Hin, Cha Am and Samui, amongst various other fairly touristy places.

Up in Isan I've often gone straight through road blocks where locals are being fleeced of their cash. I presume the ban nork police don't want to engage with a foreigner in English?

I've gotten a couple of tickets myself in 10+ years and yes, I was always in the wrong. But the payment was quick and painless, which is quite the opposite of what it would have been in the US.

As for the OP, he must be the typical hard-luck farang in Thailand who's always getting screwed by someone. You know, the neverending "victim."

[phl]

I had been drinking a touch of whisky

That seems to be an epidemic on TV.

On the topic of police, I read a lot about the Bangkok BIB appearing to focus on foreigners. I will say here on Phuket, the opposite is true. I see Thai's stopped more than, or at least as often as Thai's. Particularly if you get out of the beach areas. One check point occasionally on the newish bypass between Kathu (Prince of Sonkla Uni) and Chalong, (Honda Dealer) called Muang Chao Fah Road, seems to be exclusively Thai's. I get waved through while 100% of Thai's are stopped, questioned, and searched. Cars and motorbikes. They even walk down to the people that stop short of the checkpoint as they do here presumably because they don't have a helmet or license or whatever.

Interestingly, I just read that in Phuket, with a population of 1 million there are a total of 6 Highway Police officers stationed. In Phangna, although geographically much larger, has a population of 250k, there are 30 HP officers. The Phuket HP have commented that when they do a speed checkpoint, everyone they stop presents an business card stating they are the cousin of the mayor, or brother of a policeman. So I think that is why we never see the HP doing speeders n Phuket. No money in it.

In Pattaya police does not discriminate on the basis of race, they operate on the basis of money needed and happy to take money from both Thai and Foreigners.

[phl]

I mostly do wear my helmet but there have been times where I have been making a very short journey to say the bank down a side soi and the police are literally sat in a bar drinking stopping any Farang with a helmet on or not.

With regards to the alcohol it does not make it just which is why I am saying that I am sorry for the way it came across, we all know that alcohol lowers our inhibitions and I have had a lot of contempt for the Thai police and government lately.

Police are also people you know, they also need to pay the bills for the drinks and bar fine for the girls, plus the mia nois. Not to mention the annoying wives who want just as much as the mia nois

[PattayaParent]

I've had it both ways with the police.

I've 'gotten away' with things because I'm a Farang and also been 'fined' for being a Farang.

All in all I'd say been treated fairly.

[phl]

I missed the rant, but that is why I avoid posting when drunk. I have in the past, but can see myself the tone of my posts sometimes changes. Profanity also inevitably creeps in.

I did read a mod comment recently that people need to take responsibilty for their posts, drunk or not. The defence of 'I was pished' won't work regarding a suspension or ban.

The comment wasn't directed at me, but I took heed.

The "drunk's defence" doesn't work in a court of law anymore either.

Though totally Inebriate is still acceptable

[robblok]

I even got of the hook once where my gf was fined the previous week by acting like i could not understand Thai. I believe the Thai police where i am is unfair. But not unfair based on race but based on vehicle. Cars are stopped less then bikes and especially expensive cars are seldom stopped.

Police just go for the weaker targets just like any other predators. Mind you they usually don't make up offenses.

[TomTom55]

I don't know how you guys manage this.

I've been fined twice in 3 years of living here. Once for no helmet on a motorbike and once for speeding in a car. Both true, and both times the fine was probably less than parking outside the court would have cost me for a similar offence in England.

True I don't spend a lot of time hanging around tourist resorts, but have been to Pattaya, Hua Hin, Cha Am and Samui, amongst various other fairly touristy places.

Up in Isan I've often gone straight through road blocks where locals are being fleeced of their cash. I presume the ban nork police don't want to engage with a foreigner in English?

I've gotten a couple of tickets myself in 10+ years and yes, I was always in the wrong. But the payment was quick and painless, which is quite the opposite of what it would have been in the US.

As for the OP, he must be the typical hard-luck farang in Thailand who's always getting screwed by someone. You know, the neverending "victim."

I am not trying to play the victim, I have just had a lot of bad luck I guess. My GF who is Thai also has come to realize that farang at least here in Hua Hin are treated differently. I was riding once again down a side soi and there were 6 policemen standing waiting and stopped me, I had my helmet on and I got a fine for speeding, although I am pretty confident I was not. My friend who came here with me and who has now gone home use to say there are prices for farang and prices for Thais, rules for farang and rules for Thais.

[phl]

I don't know how you guys manage this.

I've been fined twice in 3 years of living here. Once for no helmet on a motorbike and once for speeding in a car. Both true, and both times the fine was probably less than parking outside the court would have cost me for a similar offence in England.

True I don't spend a lot of time hanging around tourist resorts, but have been to Pattaya, Hua Hin, Cha Am and Samui, amongst various other fairly touristy places.

Up in Isan I've often gone straight through road blocks where locals are being fleeced of their cash. I presume the ban nork police don't want to engage with a foreigner in English?

I've gotten a couple of tickets myself in 10+ years and yes, I was always in the wrong. But the payment was quick and painless, which is quite the opposite of what it would have been in the US.

As for the OP, he must be the typical hard-luck farang in Thailand who's always getting screwed by someone. You know, the neverending "victim."

I am not trying to play the victim, I have just had a lot of bad luck I guess. My GF who is Thai also has come to realize that farang at least here in Hua Hin are treated differently. I was riding once again down a side soi and there were 6 policemen standing waiting and stopped me, I had my helmet on and I got a fine for speeding, although I am pretty confident I was not. My friend who came here with me and who has now gone home use to say there are prices for farang and prices for Thais, rules for farang and rules for Thais.

Mate, these feelings will pass. They know how to spot the newbie, few more years of drinking and they will not bother with you anymore, as you would be the "farang know too mutt"

PS. If you really bothered and are taking it that serious why do not you buy a full face helmet with tinted glass, so police would not know who is riding

[phl]

I even got of the hook once where my gf was fined the previous week by acting like i could not understand Thai. I believe the Thai police where i am is unfair. But not unfair based on race but based on vehicle. Cars are stopped less then bikes and especially expensive cars are seldom stopped.

Police just go for the weaker targets just like any other predators. Mind you they usually don't make up offenses.

Agree, though if they really need the money and you have not done anything wrong and do have all the required documentation, they just ask for the "pink book"

Before you ask what the "pink book" is, there is no "pink book"

PS. Not making it up, have had the experience, told him i did not have the pink book, but did have a black one. Seeing as i was a "local" we happily departed with me leaving him 100 for the lunch

[crille30]

Your rant was not in any way wrong and your points are not wrong so In my opion no need to say sorry.But any way its a nice thing to do. I have to say never have any problem in 12 years, only when Im wrong,forget helmet or old license.

[robblok]

Yes there are places that charge 2 prices i just avoid them. Nothing much else you can do. Yes its unfair and i hate it but its one of the costs of living here. Yes Thais will help Thais.. not always but often.

[NBD]

I am not trying to play the victim, I have just had a lot of bad luck I guess. My GF who is Thai also has come to realize that farang at least here in Hua Hin are treated differently. I was riding once again down a side soi and there were 6 policemen standing waiting and stopped me, I had my helmet on and I got a fine for speeding, although I am pretty confident I was not. My friend who came here with me and who has now gone home use to say there are prices for farang and prices for Thais, rules for farang and rules for Thais.

Did you just accept it?

I'm not going to do the whole Mr Invincible, I would have XYZ, but you can, in a good humoured and polite way push back on them in cases like this, show that you've been here a while and you're not keen on lining their pockets every time you go out.

[theblether]

Thanks very much for having the class and wit to apologize.

Your post wasn't that bad, I reckon a lot of us have to offer some contrition at times though, it's easy to get your temper up and let the vitriol flow.

Unlike you, many of us forget to offer the apology, so if your post did anything, it gave us a chance to reflect on our manners via your apology.

On the other hand, if the worst thing that is going to happen to you is getting fined 100 baht for driving a bike illegally, what have you got to moan about!!!!!

[Berkshire]

I am not trying to play the victim, I have just had a lot of bad luck I guess. My GF who is Thai also has come to realize that farang at least here in Hua Hin are treated differently. I was riding once again down a side soi and there were 6 policemen standing waiting and stopped me, I had my helmet on and I got a fine for speeding, although I am pretty confident I was not. My friend who came here with me and who has now gone home use to say there are prices for farang and prices for Thais, rules for farang and rules for Thais.

I'm not an expert on Hua Hin, but I can't imagine it'd be that much different. In Chiang Mai, I see police setting up roadblocks all the time for motorcycles and it's usually Thais that I see getting ticketed.

I just hope that you don't fall into the same trap that some of these whining/whinging farangs do, i.e., those who blame all of their woes on the Thais and Thailand. These saps would be miserable most any place, but they just happen to be in Thailand. Trust me, there are plenty of foreigners in Thailand who are doing just fine--and don't have the constant "bad luck" befall them on a daily basis. It's pretty much you who gets to decide what category you are.

[TomTom55]

I am not trying to play the victim, I have just had a lot of bad luck I guess. My GF who is Thai also has come to realize that farang at least here in Hua Hin are treated differently. I was riding once again down a side soi and there were 6 policemen standing waiting and stopped me, I had my helmet on and I got a fine for speeding, although I am pretty confident I was not. My friend who came here with me and who has now gone home use to say there are prices for farang and prices for Thais, rules for farang and rules for Thais.

Did you just accept it?

I'm not going to do the whole Mr Invincible, I would have XYZ, but you can, in a good humoured and polite way push back on them in cases like this, show that you've been here a while and you're not keen on lining their pockets every time you go out.

This time I did not have my wallet on me so Thai I explained that my license was in my wallet back at my house, they didn't have any of that. The time at the bar yes I was not wearing a helmet but they were drinking literallt sat closest to the road waiting for people and instead of paying him I knew I had 7 days to go to the station so I said jet wan chai mai? He looked kind of stern and handed me the ticket.

@Berkshire I do not consider everything that has happened to me here to be the fault of Thailand or the Thais, a lot of it has been my own folly. I have had a few things happen to me though which were less my fault. One example I got my drink spiked thus my apple mac and money got stolen. There is a saying which I adore which is apt to your post, if you carry shit in your pocket, wherever you happen to go it will still smell.

My main issue I have though is the fact that to obtain a job or career here is one of the hardest things a person can do, unless you Teach English and there are too many underqualified people doing that already. I don't know of a country where every 7/11 has Thai nationals working only, or every shop in general and most work places. There is of course the exception and also nationals such as Indians or other Asians. It almost feels racist.

The other of course is the corruption and current government, but I won't go into that as it is a topic all too often talked about and well known.

[Beetlejuice]

Don`t worry about it.

I have upset so many posters on Thai visa that admin have agreed to create a whole new forum just for my apologises.

But I must warn you about the blether. He may come across as being nice and the perfect gentleman, but if you upset him, his arm is long and his vengence is total. So make sure you keep on the right side of him.

[NBD]

Most countries favour local workers where available.

There are non Thais working in unskilled labouring jobs here - on building sites, cutting rice etc, but they're mostly Burmese or Cambodians and they would give their eye teeth for a job in 7-11.

If you have a transferable, valuable skill then it's far from impossible to find a job here, but if it's something a Thai can do just as easily, and is prepared to do for 6,000 THB a month it's hard to see why they would readily want foreigners doing the same job.

[Berkshire]

@Berkshire I do not consider everything that has happened to me here to be the fault of Thailand or the Thais, a lot of it has been my own folly. I have had a few things happen to me though which were less my fault. One example I got my drink spiked thus my apple mac and money got stolen. There is a saying which I adore which is apt to your post, if you carry shit in your pocket, wherever you happen to go it will still smell.

My main issue I have though is the fact that to obtain a job or career here is one of the hardest things a person can do, unless you Teach English and there are too many underqualified people doing that already. I don't know of a country where every 7/11 has Thai nationals working only, or every shop in general and most work places. There is of course the exception and also nationals such as Indians or other Asians. It almost feels racist.

The other of course is the corruption and current government, but I won't go into that as it is a topic all too often talked about and well known.

No worries, dude, everyone is entitled to a rant every now and again. But if you start making a habit of it, then you become just another blowhard. By the way, that term racism seems to come up a lot. But there's several ways to look at it. In my line of work, I get paid considerably more than a Thai national for doing almost the same thing. Is that racist? Perhaps, but it's certainly not fair. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that being a clerk at 7/11 is a highly desirable position that should be opened up to foreigners? There's reason for the Work Permit laws and I have no problem with the government trying to protect their citizens--very similar to what most countries do.

Government corruption is an entirely another topic and I hate corruption as much as the next guy. But some people come on here and talk as if their government back home was as pristine as the driven snow. I can tell you that there's institutional corruption back in the USA that on a dollar-for-dollar basis, far exceeds what's going on in Thailand. But as you say, that's another topic.

[TomTom55]

@Berkshire I do not consider everything that has happened to me here to be the fault of Thailand or the Thais, a lot of it has been my own folly. I have had a few things happen to me though which were less my fault. One example I got my drink spiked thus my apple mac and money got stolen. There is a saying which I adore which is apt to your post, if you carry shit in your pocket, wherever you happen to go it will still smell.

My main issue I have though is the fact that to obtain a job or career here is one of the hardest things a person can do, unless you Teach English and there are too many underqualified people doing that already. I don't know of a country where every 7/11 has Thai nationals working only, or every shop in general and most work places. There is of course the exception and also nationals such as Indians or other Asians. It almost feels racist.

The other of course is the corruption and current government, but I won't go into that as it is a topic all too often talked about and well known.

No worries, dude, everyone is entitled to a rant every now and again. But if you start making a habit of it, then you become just another blowhard. By the way, that term racism seems to come up a lot. But there's several ways to look at it. In my line of work, I get paid considerably more than a Thai national for doing almost the same thing. Is that racist? Perhaps, but it's certainly not fair. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that being a clerk at 7/11 is a highly desirable position that should be opened up to foreigners? There's reason for the Work Permit laws and I have no problem with the government trying to protect their citizens--very similar to what most countries do.

Government corruption is an entirely another topic and I hate corruption as much as the next guy. But some people come on here and talk as if their government back home was as pristine as the driven snow. I can tell you that there's institutional corruption back in the USA that on a dollar-for-dollar basis, far exceeds what's going on in Thailand. But as you say, that's another topic.

About 7/11 I am merely pointing out that I have never seen anybody working in there that is not a Thai national. I have skills in graphic design and it is still hard to get a job here for a number of reasons, firstly most employers ask for at lest 1 years experience in the industry, well how can anybody start in the industry if they have not had the experience? Secondly many of them ask for Thai nationals only and the other reason is that all of my university work was stored on my mac which was stolen, silly me yes I did not back it up. So I have had to remake a portfolio which has no real background from my studies.

Corruption, yes the western countries are all corrupt but they just hide it in a better way, I am aware of that. But here simple things like road accidents and crimes that just simply get put into the file of no return.

Moving to Cambodia is something I have been dwelling on as they offer a business visa for 25 dollars which can be extended to a year. The opportunity for work there is a lot better than it is here. The thing is I have ties here, my partner for example does not speak English very well at all or Khmer, I myself have learnt to speak Thai to a decent degree so moving there would be like starting all over again. Going back home is not really an option, I am from the UK and even my own mother says I am better off here at the moment due to the economy etc.

Edited July 10, 2012 by TomTom55

[theblether]

Don`t worry about it.

I have upset so many posters on Thai visa that admin have agreed to create a whole new forum just for my apologises.

But I must warn you about the blether. He may come across as being nice and the perfect gentleman, but if you upset him, his arm is long and his vengence is total. So make sure you keep on the right side of him.

You've noticed

[NBD]

Why don't you start off small - there's tons of small business owners who'd probably give you a bit of beer money to make their website a bit prettier or their logos a bit sharper, and it will build up your portfolio. Look for work on line through sites like elance or peopleperhour.

Getting your first job out of college is hard anywhere in the world, especially if it's in a fairly popular area like graphic design. It's alright to say you speak Thai, I'm sure you do and quite likely better than I do, but if you're up against a Thai graduate with similar experience and ability, who speaks, reads and writes Thai as a native language, doesn't need a visa or work permit and isn't going to decide he likes Cambodia better 6 months down the line, who do you think a company is going to invest time and money in training?