Tipping?

[CMNightRider]

You are wrong. Tipping is anathema to Thailand and most of SE Asia and China. Trust me on this.

Wow, where did you come up with that? I never realized Asians thought tipping was evil or something that was detested or loathed. I have met a lot of Thais over the years, and never heard of that before. We must travel in different circles.

[insertmembernamehere]

Okay, maybe that was too strong. But I think everyone needs to forget the US or the West in this discussion. It's a cultural thing. There is no tipping in any Asian country I have visited or lived in unless it was introduced by some foreign operation.

[EmptyBasementBin]

It was certinaly a big no no in China when I was based there in 2006.

It's quite an insult and I was waved away with 'no no no' when offering the change fora haircut or whatever.

[vagabond48]

Way back in the day, when full service gas stations were predominate in the US, it was customary to tip your filling station attendant as well. With the notable exception of the state of New Jersey, full service stations have fallen by the way side. However, when they are encountered, tipping still routinely happens.

-Mestizo

I think the key word is "full" service gas station. They'd clean your windows and check your oil so I guess some small tip would be appropriate.

[EmptyBasementBin]

I think the key word is "full" service gas station. They'd clean your windows and check your oil so I guess some small tip would be appropriate.

You don't want to know what the 'full service' is in some of the Chinese hair salons and barbers.

Your hair cut has a happy ending.

Tip is required though, and negotiated before completion.

[hellodolly]

Way back in the day, when full service gas stations were predominate in the US, it was customary to tip your filling station attendant as well. With the notable exception of the state of New Jersey, full service stations have fallen by the way side. However, when they are encountered, tipping still routinely happens.

This is apparently somewhat carried over to Thailand. When I go to a gas station in Thailand, I normally do not tip. However, if I request extra services, such as airing up the tires on my motorbike, I always tip for this. Initially this was not something that occurred to me, however my Thai girlfriend at the time informed me that if I was going to have them air my tires, it was normal to tip them 5 to 10 baht.

Again, this seems to be a Thai thing, not so much a farang thing....

-Mestizo

Way back when I owned a full service gas station and had worked part time for one for a couple of years previously. Never one received a tip or knew of any one else to receive one. This was in the 60s long before the self serve.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, but that was in Canada wasn't it?

[OriginalPoster]

am I actually harming anyone

Well, you're introducing the act of tipping, which is not normal to the locals. And believe me, they are learning fast.

Am I really doing that? Without me leaving a waitress a tip, Pandora's box would never have been opened? Cheap bastards have no right to tell me how to spend my money and I will spend it as I please.

[hellodolly]

Yes, but that was in Canada wasn't it?

No Linwood Washington just off of I5 between Seattle and Everett.

[richard_smith237]

Its really difficult to say what we / I should tip because each situation should be or is judged on it's own individual merit....

I for one find it easy to decide on tipping a golf Caddy - B300 if ok, B200 if useless... (that appears to be the going rate with Thais too).

For a haircut - I tip B100 in a shopping Mall hair dressers in BKK which charges about B500-700 baht.

For a massage - I tip B100 baht, that rarely changes.

For a taxi ride - I simply round it up, i.e. 57 baht, they might get 60 or 70 baht depending on what coins I have and how good they have driven me.

A restaurant is where it gets really tricky - Sometimes at a dinner for 8 or so people with Excellent service for a bill of about B8000 we've left a tip of B500.

Sometimes at a cheaper cafe we've left the remaining change.

Mostly I pay by card - so I add the cash as a tip.

Tipping is personal thing - Sometimes its deserved, but my opinion remains strong in that at tip should never be expected.

So, as I mentioned in the first line of this post - 'Each situation should be or is judged on it's own individual merit'...

The last few tips i left are:

Today in a cafe - Poor service, the B1000 bill included 10% service charge and 7% tax - I paid by card and left no tip.

Yesterday in a restaurant with excellent service, my wife and I are frequent visitors we always leave a B100 tip on a dinner which usually costs about B2500 for two, there is also a 7% tax and 10% service charge.

Last week in the UK - A £200 meal (B10,000) I left a £20 tip in cash after paying for the meal by card - The service was excellent (there was no service charge).

Last night in a club - I slipped the waiter B100 at the beginning of the night.

Tonight in a few pubs on a B400 bill I left B20 each time.

Last night in a Taxi - I rounded up from B101 to B120 ( a good driver)

Tonight in a Taxi - I rounded up B51 but only to B55 ( the driver was an idiot !)...

Each situation is different - The simple rule I follow is not to try and look cheap while at the same time trying not to look like a fool throwing his money around but to still maintain a display of appreciation for decent service when I get it.

----------

A quick story...

I was working with a guy who had recently come back from the USA and objected to the excessiveness of the tipping culture there.

Upon paying US$100 for an $85 meal he left the change to exit the pub... As he reached the door the waitress asked him why he had left with out taking his change.

When he replied that it was a tip the waitress asked why it was so low, she'd worked hard serving him and expected a better tip... To which he replied that he'll take all the money back the (the additional $15 he'd left), the waitress then complained that she'd expected more tip as she works hard for tips (fair enough I say, I sit on the fence not his subject though)... My friend then recommended that the waitress try and and work in the Saudi desert at 50 Deg C for a month on end, then she will know what hard work is, or she could go and get £u^ked...

Given the attitude of the waitress I can't say I blame my friend.

I too once worked in the service industry and appreciate how great it is to receive a tip, but one was never expected - I was serving, that was my job. I don't get tipped in my current job. Scientists don't get tipped, teachers don't get tipped, the whole idea of someone getting a tip for doing what they are paid to do anyway seems preposterous.

However, if what they are getting paid to do includes tips the grey area causes all the fence sitting and discussion this thread will bring out.

Could it be possible to suggest we are all cheap and only wish to tip the expected minimum ?

Edited July 14, 2012 by richard_smith237

[EmptyBasementBin]

Aren't Thais paid for doing their job?

[naboo]

100B tip in a restaurant?

Lets estimate that a waitress serves 5 tables in a shift, 6 shifts a week. She'll be getting 3000B a week in tips, 13,000B a month in tips, plus her salary giving her close to 20,000B a month.

A young teacher makes approximately 7000-13,000 depending on qualifications - 13,000 would require an excellent degree and a masters. By tipping so generously, you are making waitressing more rewarding than teaching, so the brains of the country go to serving food, pouring beer and smiling, whilst the need for brains in teaching, nursing etc is not fulfilled.

I very rarely leave more than 20B, usually just the coins. I can count on the fingers of half a hand the number of times I can remember a tip reaching 100B+ in the last 4 years, and that has been when there have been 10+ people eating and drinking and we've sat there all night.

[Ulysses G.]

100B tip in a restaurant?

Lets estimate that a waitress serves 5 tables in a shift, 6 shifts a week. She'll be getting 3000B a week in tips, 13,000B a month in tips, plus her salary giving her close to 20,000B a month.

Don't worry. A lot of people stiff her, so all he is doing is making up a little bit for the Cheap Charlies.

[richard_smith237]

100B tip in a restaurant?

Lets estimate that a waitress serves 5 tables in a shift, 6 shifts a week. She'll be getting 3000B a week in tips, 13,000B a month in tips, plus her salary giving her close to 20,000B a month.

A young teacher makes approximately 7000-13,000 depending on qualifications - 13,000 would require an excellent degree and a masters. By tipping so generously, you are making waitressing more rewarding than teaching, so the brains of the country go to serving food, pouring beer and smiling, whilst the need for brains in teaching, nursing etc is not fulfilled.

I very rarely leave more than 20B, usually just the coins. I can count on the fingers of half a hand the number of times I can remember a tip reaching 100B+ in the last 4 years, and that has been when there have been 10+ people eating and drinking and we've sat there all night.

This is where everyones experience and opinions differ without making any one of us correct.

I see nothing wrong with leaving a B100 tip for a great B1500 meal for two if the service is excellent.

Going to such lengths to calculate what the tip should be is perhaps taking things a step too far. Could it be that some of us are cheap and calculate the minimum tip we can get away with ????....

While the logic of the Teacher getting less income than the waiting staff is sound there are far greater factors involved i.e. housing benefit (cheaper mortgage rates), job security, ease of obtaining loans etc..

Tipping never has or never will be a black and white subject IMO a tip is simply based on personal experience.

One issue I do see is that in tourist areas higher tips are often expected by jaded staff who think westerners have money to burn... It is in these area's that I'm most careful not to over tip and in general leave the change.

Edited July 15, 2012 by richard_smith237

[vagabond48]

I previously provided the US minimum wage requirement for tipped employees information to show that they should get tipped minimally since the politicians decided that they should get paid less per hour because of anticipated tips.

I am curious to know if Thai waiters and waitress get much less per hour than let's say for example the clerks manning the small shops around town and the malls? If they are, indeed on the average, getting less per hour, then I would begin tipping the waiters/waitresses more often. If they are getting about the same as the average worker at shops, then you generous tippers when buying a shirt or dress etc. at local shops should perhaps begin tipping the shop clerks as well to show your gratitude for helpful service. After all you are much better off than they are.

[el jefe]

I previously provided the US minimum wage requirement for tipped employees information to show that they should get tipped minimally since the politicians decided that they should get paid less per hour because of anticipated tips.

I am curious to know if Thai waiters and waitress get much less per hour than let's say for example the clerks manning the small shops around town and the malls? If they are, indeed on the average, getting less per hour, then I would begin tipping the waiters/waitresses more often. If they are getting about the same as the average worker at shops, then you generous tippers when buying a shirt or dress etc. at local shops should perhaps begin tipping the shop clerks as well to show your gratitude for helpful service. After all you are much better off than they are.

There was a thread a while back about tipping the clerks in 7/11. i agree with your logic, Vagabond, but some posters thought this was normal.

I usually tip 10% at restaurants, but almost nothing anywhere else. I've had my tips refused when I've occasionally offered them at places that don't usually get tips.

[jacktrip]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

get ripped a couple times and you can stop feeling like you need to tip. and in this country nobody will ever get mad or upset about it publically, so you don't need to worry.

[mesquite]

IMHO, tip if you must, but only a small amount, like the coins left in the tray. That's probably just a few percent.

In the US, they think you're generous if you leave a big tip, say 20%. Here in Thailand, they just think you're stupid. In both cases they act accordingly.

Best bet: Convince them you're smart; don't tip at all.

Edited July 15, 2012 by mesquite

[dazk]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

get ripped a couple times and you can stop feeling like you need to tip. and in this country nobody will ever get mad or upset about it publically, so you don't need to worry.

and if they dont bring back the change on a tray they are stealing

we use the tray because it looks better than handing a bill and handling money nothing to do with tips

Edited July 15, 2012 by dazk

[dazk]

IMHO, tip if you must, but only a small amount, like the coins left in the tray. That's probably just a few percent.

In the US, they think you're generous if you leave a big tip, say 20%. Here in Thailand, they just think you're stupid. In both cases they act accordingly.

Best bet: Convince them you're smart; don't tip at all.

they do not think you are stupid, they think you where very happy with the service they have given you or maybe very generous, this is from experience of owning and running restaurants here, some of you guys need to lighten up stop thinking all thais are out to get your money or rip you of

[mesquite]

And my experience is from being a customer here and tipping anywhere from 0 to 20 percent.

[Ulysses G.]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

[Semper]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

Have you ever ordered 1 beer in a bar (for westerners)? Price for the beer 40Baht, you give them 100 Baht and the change you'll get concists 99% of 2 twenties and 2 10 baht coins.

[canuckamuck]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

Have you ever ordered 1 beer in a bar (for westerners)? Price for the beer 40Baht, you give them 100 Baht and the change you'll get concists 99% of 2 twenties and 2 10 baht coins.

Well that is smart.

My dad used to scold waitresses who brought back the change in a way that it made it more difficult to tip.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

get ripped a couple times and you can stop feeling like you need to tip. and in this country nobody will ever get mad or upset about it publically, so you don't need to worry.

and if they dont bring back the change on a tray they are stealing

we use the tray because it looks better than handing a bill and handling money nothing to do with tips

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

And yet, places that don't normally expect tips don't use the tray. Anwyay I think it's fine to use a tray, indeed it also looks better for nicer bars and restaurants. You can still send the vibe that tipping isn't required (or expected) by not waiting there while the customer pockets the change (and/or leaves a tip). I think it looks nicer to just leave the tray, and then collect any tips or left-over coins as the customer leaves.

Edited July 16, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

Have you ever ordered 1 beer in a bar (for westerners)? Price for the beer 40Baht, you give them 100 Baht and the change you'll get concists 99% of 2 twenties and 2 10 baht coins.

With regards to leaving coins, I suppose there is no way to please all. Someitmes it's actually nice to get some coins, for example when you use public transport. Or (gasp) to tip at the next place you're visiting and which only gives you a 50 or 100 baht bill in change; then it'd be nice to actually have one or two 10 baht coins to leave at the next place.

Also... if a beer is only 40 baht then I think things are pretty happy, overall. Some Bangkok based forum members are picking up their jaw from the floor right now.

[Ulysses G.]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

get ripped a couple times and you can stop feeling like you need to tip. and in this country nobody will ever get mad or upset about it publically, so you don't need to worry.

and if they dont bring back the change on a tray they are stealing

we use the tray because it looks better than handing a bill and handling money nothing to do with tips

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

And yet, places that don't normally expect tips don't use the tray.

I must respectfully disagree. Many Thai places that have mostly Thai customers use them. That is why I think it is mostly a Thai thing that has little to do with us.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ I think you are saying the same thing. I'm not making the point that Thai people don't tip; of course they do, in somewhat nicer establishment that indeed return change on a tray.

[watcharacters]

Its really difficult to say what we / I should tip because each situation should be or is judged on it's own individual merit....

I for one find it easy to decide on tipping a golf Caddy - B300 if ok, B200 if useless... (that appears to be the going rate with Thais too).

For a haircut - I tip B100 in a shopping Mall hair dressers in BKK which charges about B500-700 baht.

For a massage - I tip B100 baht, that rarely changes.

For a taxi ride - I simply round it up, i.e. 57 baht, they might get 60 or 70 baht depending on what coins I have and how good they have driven me.

A restaurant is where it gets really tricky - Sometimes at a dinner for 8 or so people with Excellent service for a bill of about B8000 we've left a tip of B500.

Sometimes at a cheaper cafe we've left the remaining change.

Mostly I pay by card - so I add the cash as a tip.

Tipping is personal thing - Sometimes its deserved, but my opinion remains strong in that at tip should never be expected.

So, as I mentioned in the first line of this post - 'Each situation should be or is judged on it's own individual merit'...

The last few tips i left are:

Today in a cafe - Poor service, the B1000 bill included 10% service charge and 7% tax - I paid by card and left no tip.

Yesterday in a restaurant with excellent service, my wife and I are frequent visitors we always leave a B100 tip on a dinner which usually costs about B2500 for two, there is also a 7% tax and 10% service charge.

Last week in the UK - A £200 meal (B10,000) I left a £20 tip in cash after paying for the meal by card - The service was excellent (there was no service charge).

Last night in a club - I slipped the waiter B100 at the beginning of the night.

Tonight in a few pubs on a B400 bill I left B20 each time.

Last night in a Taxi - I rounded up from B101 to B120 ( a good driver)

Tonight in a Taxi - I rounded up B51 but only to B55 ( the driver was an idiot !)...

Each situation is different - The simple rule I follow is not to try and look cheap while at the same time trying not to look like a fool throwing his money around but to still maintain a display of appreciation for decent service when I get it.

----------

A quick story...

I was working with a guy who had recently come back from the USA and objected to the excessiveness of the tipping culture there.

Upon paying US$100 for an $85 meal he left the change to exit the pub... As he reached the door the waitress asked him why he had left with out taking his change.

When he replied that it was a tip the waitress asked why it was so low, she'd worked hard serving him and expected a better tip... To which he replied that he'll take all the money back the (the additional $15 he'd left), the waitress then complained that she'd expected more tip as she works hard for tips (fair enough I say, I sit on the fence not his subject though)... My friend then recommended that the waitress try and and work in the Saudi desert at 50 Deg C for a month on end, then she will know what hard work is, or she could go and get £u^ked...

Given the attitude of the waitress I can't say I blame my friend.

I too once worked in the service industry and appreciate how great it is to receive a tip, but one was never expected - I was serving, that was my job. I don't get tipped in my current job. Scientists don't get tipped, teachers don't get tipped, the whole idea of someone getting a tip for doing what they are paid to do anyway seems preposterous.

However, if what they are getting paid to do includes tips the grey area causes all the fence sitting and discussion this thread will bring out.

Could it be possible to suggest we are all cheap and only wish to tip the expected minimum ?

I don't doubt the relaying of your friends tale but I have to call urban myth to it. I just don't believe where the restaurant bill could reach $85. the staff would ever pull such a stunt.

Sounds more like a justification for being a non tipper to me.

[dazk]

If they bring back the change on a tray they are looking for a tip.

I'm pretty sure that using the tray is a Thai thing that has nothing to do with tips.

Have you ever ordered 1 beer in a bar (for westerners)? Price for the beer 40Baht, you give them 100 Baht and the change you'll get concists 99% of 2 twenties and 2 10 baht coins.

Well that is smart.

My dad used to scold waitresses who brought back the change in a way that it made it more difficult to tip.

yes we teach our staff to put coins in the change