Denied 90 Day Non Imm O Visa- Washington Thai Embassy

[Lancelot]

Just some info for the board. Today I received a call from the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington DC telling me that I did not qualify for a 90 day, single entry Non Imm Type O visa, because I was not attending a business meeting or traveling to Thailand for other business related purposes.

My intent was to convert the 90 O visa to a Retirement Visa (extension of stay) in Thailand. Guess not...

By way of background info, I had been living in Thailand since 2003 on Retirement extensions of stays. Thai Immigration converted my original Tourist Visa to a 90 day Non Imm O, which they subsequently converted to a Retirement Visa (extension of stay?)

I returned to the USA in Sep 2011 for a death in the family. I remained ion the USA through my Retirement Extension of Stay renewal in February 2012, so it has expired. My passport is full of extension of stay stamps but that didn't qualify me for a single entry 90 day O...

The Thai lady I spoke with was rude and made it clear that I needed to resubmit my application for either a tourist visa or Long Stay OA (?) I kept my cool and asked her to simply return my pass port.

I'm just sitting her mulling my options:

1. Throw myself on the mercy of an Immigration officer at the airport for a temporary extension to renew my Original Extension of Stay?

2. Resubmitt all the documents for a Retirement Visa issued by the Royal Thai Embassy, Washing DC?

3. Say mai pen rai and try a different country?

I've had mostly positive experiences with Thai Immigration and found them to be very reasonable, but I just got the wrong person this time.

Any ideas?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Lancelot

[PoorSucker]

Send application to one of the honorary consulates instead.

http://www.thaiconsulatechicago.org/clate/whitepp/2010/hon_consul.pdf

Edited July 13, 2012 by PoorSucker

[Jingthing]

Yes, lots of ideas.

It has been known for many years now that the D.C. will not grant single entry O visas for purposes of getting retirement extensions in Thailand. You could have found that out easily here by asking.

They will of course do O-A visa applications but of course more involved the applicant than getting retirement extensions in Thailand.

If you didn't have the backing for a business based visa and it sounds like it was a bogus claim anyway, why be surprised about the rejection? Come on, they knew what you're real goal was, retirement extension, didn't they, so again based on their pattern, the rejection was very predictable.

Absolutely DO NOT BOTHER to beg for a "temporary extension" to extend you current permission to stay. That is history and if I understand you correctly what you would be begging for is impossible.

How to proceed? Multiple choices:

1) Contact a friendly consulate and directly ask them will you give me a single entry O visa based on intention to retirement extend in Thailand. Perhaps Atlanta? Portland? Houston? Places that don't offer O-A may indeed be happy to give you a single based on retirement intentions.

2) Get a tourist visa from D.C. In Thailand, do the famous TWO STEP PROCESS which means first change of visa status to O visa (yes IN Thailand) and secondly application for annual retirement extension.

Not all Thai immigration offices support the first step. If yours doesn't, the first step can be done in Bangkok. Big offices generally support this. Be ready to prove to them you will be eligible for the retirement extension to get the change of visa status approved.

OR

3) Same as (2) but start with a 30 day stamp. Yes even a 30 day stamp can be used for a change of visa status in Thailand as part of the two step process. If you enter on a 30 day stamp you likely won't be boarded at the airport unless you can present an air ticket leaving Thailand within 30 days of arrival. Such as a cheap throwaway ticket to Malaysia. So better the tourist visa.

Not sure what your method of financial qualification will be. If Thai bank account of course money seasoning rules apply (two months for first extension) for the retirement extension step of the two step process.

Rereading your OP, it seems you ALREADY did a two step process in 2003:

By way of background info, I had been living in Thailand since 2003 on Retirement extensions of stays. Thai Immigration converted my original Tourist Visa to a 90 day Non Imm O, which they subsequently converted to a Retirement Visa (extension of stay?)

Yes you never had a retirement visa. You've been on subsequent annual retirement extensions.

I don't get why you are despairing exactly. You already did this. Just do it again. People start over with retirement extension status here quite commonly. It's only a ONE YEAR permission anyway. Easy in. Easy out. There is no lifetime commitment from the foreigner or from Thailand.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[Lancelot]

Thanks, good info!

Send application to one of the honorary consulates instead.

http://www.thaiconsu.../hon_consul.pdf

Yes, lots of ideas.

It has been known for many years now that the D.C. will not grant single entry O visas for purposes of getting retirement extensions in Thailand. You could have found that out easily here by asking.

They will of course do O-A visa applications but of course more involved the applicant than getting retirement extensions in Thailand.

If you didn't have the backing for a business based visa and it sounds like it was a bogus claim anyway, why be surprised about the rejection? Come on, they knew what you're real goal was, retirement extension, didn't they, so again based on their pattern, the rejection was very predictable.

Absolutely DO NOT BOTHER to beg for a "temporary extension" to extend you current permission to stay. That is history and if I understand you correctly what you would be begging for is impossible.

How to proceed? Multiple choices:

1) Contact a friendly consulate and directly ask them will you give me a single entry O visa based on intention to retirement extend in Thailand. Perhaps Atlanta? Portland? Houston? Places that don't offer O-A may indeed be happy to give you a single based on retirement intentions.

2) Get a tourist visa from D.C. In Thailand, do the famous TWO STEP PROCESS which means first change of visa status to O visa (yes IN Thailand) and secondly application for annual retirement extension.

Not all Thai immigration offices support the first step. If yours doesn't, the first step can be done in Bangkok. Big offices generally support this. Be ready to prove to them you will be eligible for the retirement extension to get the change of visa status approved.

OR

3) Same as (2) but start with a 30 day stamp. Yes even a 30 day stamp can be used for a change of visa status in Thailand as part of the two step process. If you enter on a 30 day stamp you likely won't be boarded at the airport unless you can present an air ticket leaving Thailand within 30 days of arrival. Such as a cheap throwaway ticket to Malaysia. So better the tourist visa.

Not sure what your method of financial qualification will be. If Thai bank account of course money seasoning rules apply (two months for first extension) for the retirement extension step of the two step process.

Rereading your OP, it seems you ALREADY did a two step process in 2003:

By way of background info, I had been living in Thailand since 2003 on Retirement extensions of stays. Thai Immigration converted my original Tourist Visa to a 90 day Non Imm O, which they subsequently converted to a Retirement Visa (extension of stay?)

Yes you never had a retirement visa. You've been on subsequent annual retirement extensions.

I don't get why you are despairing exactly. You already did this. Just do it again. People start over with retirement extension status here quite commonly. It's only a ONE YEAR permission anyway. Easy in. Easy out. There is no lifetime commitment from the foreigner or from Thailand.

[TerryLH]

"I've had mostly positive experiences with Thai Immigration and found them to be very reasonable, but I just got the wrong person this time"

You were not dealing with an immigration office or officer..

[Jingthing]

Yeah what goes on at Thai embassies and consulates is very disconnected from what happens in Thailand. Also beware of advice from those places about immigration policies once you're in the immigration system in Thailand.

[Lancelot]

The tea leaves are telling me its time to try a different country

[Jingthing]

The tea leaves are telling me its time to try a different country

Well if you're looking for a retirement visa system that offers more long term security than Thailand, that would make sense. If you're just bothered by the rudeness from the DC embassy I'd say just avoid them!

[Lancelot]

The tea leaves are telling me its time to try a different country

Well if you're looking for a retirement visa system that offers more long term security than Thailand, that would make sense. If you're just bothered by the rudeness from the DC embassy I'd say just avoid them!

I have experienced more rudeness from the wonderful TSA folks in the USA. I was just suprised by the attitude of the lady I spoke to at the DC Embassy, especially since my passport shows multiple extensions of stay, all in good order and legal.

I've already booked my flight so I'll try converting the 30 visa waiver to a 90 day Imm O, then extend based on Retirement. If that doesn't work, its on the road again

[Jingthing]

You can always just go to Thai embassies/consulate in Malaysia or Laos and get a single entry O just based on being over age 50 and intention to do a retirement extension in Thailand -- if for some reason you have a problem with change of visa status from a 30 day stamp to an O visa in Thailand.

[LuckyLew]

Why not just resubmit the paperwork for Retirement visa?

If all is in order then there should be no issues

If it is dues t length of time before your flights, then just get

the 30 day entry stamp when you get here and make plans

to travel to Laos when you get here and re apply for retirement

visa

[Colabamumbai]

Consulates work on comission they are more apt to issue the documents.

[Lancelot]

Consulates work on comission they are more apt to issue the documents.

I did call the Houston TX Thai Consulate and was advised that they too would not issue me a 90 Day Non IMM O. They said 90 Day Os' were only issued for: 1) Property Owner/check on property (?); 2) Vist Thai family (Spouse?); 3) Education.

I'm just going to roll the dice and hope for an understanding Immigration Officer in Bangkok. I'm going to take my old expired passport with the original 90 day O visa issued in 2003. My new passport has about three pages noting transfer of my Extension of Stay Stamps from the expired passport. I also have a copy of the Death Certificate of the family member that prompted my return to the USA and missing my renewal date.

With all those documents maybe I'll be blacklisted for "Environmental Damage" Ha! Gotta laugh and remember Mai pen rai...

[kwonitoy]

Consulates work on comission they are more apt to issue the documents.

I did call the Houston TX Thai Consulate and was advised that they too would not issue me a 90 Day Non IMM O. They said 90 Day Os' were only issued for: 1) Property Owner/check on property (?); 2) Vist Thai family (Spouse?); 3) Education.

I'm just going to roll the dice and hope for an understanding Immigration Officer in Bangkok. I'm going to take my old expired passport with the original 90 day O visa issued in 2003. My new passport has about three pages noting transfer of my Extension of Stay Stamps from the expired passport. I also have a copy of the Death Certificate of the family member that prompted my return to the USA and missing my renewal date.

With all those documents maybe I'll be blacklisted for "Environmental Damage" Ha! Gotta laugh and remember Mai pen rai...

I've had two Non O visa's issued by the embassy in Washingtion DC and I'm not even an american citizen (Canadian working in the US)

They are like ALL embassies the world over, if you can't tick the boxes they require then no visa. The amount of stamps in your passport or what you'd like to do is meaningless to them.

If you meet their qualifications for a Non O you'll get it without a problem, being married in Thailand and showing a copy of my Thai marriage cert worked for me, plus additional documents as a non-american working in the US

Non O A is a nightmare in the US due to the medical checkup requirements

I've renewed my Non O is several foreign countries where I've been working and have yet to have a problem anywhere. Go online find out what you need and supply it to them. No different than getting and renewing visa's in Thailand.

[lopburi3]

1. A call to Portland Consulate would be my suggestion - believe that will solve problem.

2. You must have a non immigrant visa to obtain a new retirement extension of stay - immigration can not allow without.

3. If you have financial proof ready within the first half of a 30 day visa exempt entry it should not be a problem changing to non immigrant visa but will cost 2,000 baht and may require a trip to Bangkok if local office can not do. But visa exempt entry may require having an outbound ticket.

4. You can also obtain from a consulate in the area if required but conversion should be an option.

[ubonjoe]

Send application to one of the honorary consulates instead.

http://www.thaiconsu.../hon_consul.pdf

File is out of date. Go to: http://thaiembdc.us/wordpress1/

[sbk]

Lop points out an important point, if you want to convert your 30 visa exempt entry you must do so with at least 15 days remaining on it.

[TwentyBaht]

Would just like to add information to the thread.

Over my time here, I have obtained two multi-entry O-A visas from Honorary Consulates within the US. And, a friend has just arrived with his.

The medical requirement is a very simple one-page form that can be checked off and signed in a clinic. (Even the small clinics that do medical testing for job applicants can complete this form. Or, as in my case a neighborhood clinic did it for free. In, about five minutes time)

The background check can be a simple form from a police or sheriff station. ($5 in Florida)

Proof of sufficient funds (800,000) baht can be a copied US bank/brokerage statement. And, a simple recent letter from the bank/brokerage stating that the funds are in the bank. No need to transfer funds here.

A multi-entry O-A will allow a stay in the Kingdom for almost two years (depending on US departure time). Requiring, one timely border crossing to activate the second year of visa stay.

Yes, after getting here by some other visa, the extension of stay can be done in Thailand. But, money transfers/embassy income certification must be done before the extension is completed. And multiple trips to Thai Immigration to do this.

Which way is best for someone depends on whether they want to do the application work on the US side, or the Thai side.

But, I found it rather easy to do the O-A application on the US side.

Cheers

Edited July 14, 2012 by TwentyBaht

[NancyL]

Depending upon your situation the medical form, criminal check and proof of financial worth can be a hassle to obtain in the U.S. Our doctor insisted on actually performing tests for every condition listed on the form (cha-ching!) and our health insurance wouldn't pay for them, no one in our little rural township seemed to understand how to do a criminal check on someone who wasn't being arrested and the big national company that manages our 401K accounts had us jump thru hoops just to get them to certify the amounts in our accounts. Then, in the end, I didn't get an O-A, just a 90 day O visa. Hubby got the O-A and I was suppose to get an extension to my O visa in Thailand based on being a dependent, even though we had way more than 1.6 million baht our joint accounts!

So, we had to bring 800,000 baht into Thailand much sooner than we'd planned so I'd be able to have my own retirement extension, rather than being dependent upon my husband's visa.

Edited July 14, 2012 by NancyL

[lopburi3]

Honorary Consulates no longer issue non immigrant O-A visas so your recent friend arrival must have been obtained from an Official Consulate.

[Lancelot]

1. A call to Portland Consulate would be my suggestion - believe that will solve problem.

2. You must have a non immigrant visa to obtain a new retirement extension of stay - immigration can not allow without.

3. If you have financial proof ready within the first half of a 30 day visa exempt entry it should not be a problem changing to non immigrant visa but will cost 2,000 baht and may require a trip to Bangkok if local office can not do. But visa exempt entry may require having an outbound ticket.

4. You can also obtain from a consulate in the area if required but conversion should be an option.

Thanks Lop. I do have the financial documentation and I'll also get the Income Verification letter from the US Embassy. Luckily I do have an outbound ticket, I was going to travel around SE Asia and use Thailand as my home base, as I have done for the previous 10 years.

Strange how the system works- I can't get a 90 Day Non Imm in the USA, but I most likely will receive one in Thailand. Oh well, live and learn, Thai Embassy and Thai rules, I'll just have to accept it as a lesson learned

[Lancelot]

Lop points out an important point, if you want to convert your 30 visa exempt entry you must do so with at least 15 days remaining on it.

Noted SBK. I'll make a trip to Thai Immigration, BKK on day 2 or 3, jet lag permitting

[Lancelot]

Depending upon your situation the medical form, criminal check and proof of financial worth can be a hassle to obtain in the U.S. Our doctor insisted on actually performing tests for every condition listed on the form (cha-ching!) and our health insurance wouldn't pay for them, no one in our little rural township seemed to understand how to do a criminal check on someone who wasn't being arrested and the big national company that manages our 401K accounts had us jump thru hoops just to get them to certify the amounts in our accounts. Then, in the end, I didn't get an O-A, just a 90 day O visa. Hubby got the O-A and I was suppose to get an extension to my O visa in Thailand based on being a dependent, even though we had way more than 1.6 million baht our joint accounts!

So, we had to bring 800,000 baht into Thailand much sooner than we'd planned so I'd be able to have my own retirement extension, rather than being dependent upon my husband's visa.

Hi Nancy!

Your experience is exactly the reason I was applying for a 90 Day Non Imm O in the USA, then ask Thai Immigration for an extension based on retirement. Medical certifications is no problema in Thailand; in the US they can be more arcane than the Visa process its self. Any way, live and learn

[Lancelot]

Would just like to add information to the thread.

Over my time here, I have obtained two multi-entry O-A visas from Honorary Consulates within the US. And, a friend has just arrived with his.

The medical requirement is a very simple one-page form that can be checked off and signed in a clinic. (Even the small clinics that do medical testing for job applicants can complete this form. Or, as in my case a neighborhood clinic did it for free. In, about five minutes time)

The background check can be a simple form from a police or sheriff station. ($5 in Florida)

Proof of sufficient funds (800,000) baht can be a copied US bank/brokerage statement. And, a simple recent letter from the bank/brokerage stating that the funds are in the bank. No need to transfer funds here.

A multi-entry O-A will allow a stay in the Kingdom for almost two years (depending on US departure time). Requiring, one timely border crossing to activate the second year of visa stay.

Yes, after getting here by some other visa, the extension of stay can be done in Thailand. But, money transfers/embassy income certification must be done before the extension is completed. And multiple trips to Thai Immigration to do this.

Which way is best for someone depends on whether they want to do the application work on the US side, or the Thai side.

But, I found it rather easy to do the O-A application on the US side.

Cheers

Thanks Twenty Baht- wish I would have tried your method...

Edited July 14, 2012 by Lancelot

[TwentyBaht]

Lopburi3,

Correct. My understanding is three Consulates, and the Thai Embassy now issue O-A. The Consulates show as area specific. And, Consulate websites each list slightly different requirements.

But, the paperwork for my friend's recent O-A was the same as I posted.

What I've learned is it best to send a few advance emails regarding visa application. To the different Consulates (or Honorary Consulates). And, recently assisting my friend, we found this to again be true. What is website read and what is actually required may be different. And, the area specific thing seems to be not so rigid. (And, alternate addresses may be available to applicants.) All in all, a few emails tend to smooth things out. And, find out which Consulate is best to deal with.

Cheers

[crazykopite]

get a 1 year multi entry and convert it over to a retirement extension of stay visa at any time during the 1 year period and if you are clever enogh leave the kingdom 24 hours before it expires re enter and you then get another 3 months which means 15 months for the price of a 1 year multi entry of course the only draw back is having to do a border run every 90 days but hey treat it as a holiday !!! godd luck !!!

[pcruzer]

so much misinformation from the experts!

u can convert your 30 day on arrival to a 90 day at any thailand immigration office if u have more then 21days left on it. then u have 90 days to prove ur funding for retirement. u dont need a medical or criminal report if u do this in thailand......

[lopburi3]

30 day entry is visa exempt and without onward ticket traveler is likely to be denied boarding. Only selected immigration offices allow change of entry status. Much better to have the visa in hand (a single entry non immigrant O - as it is required in any case). Without it proof of financials must be presented to Immigration (often in Bangkok only) to obtain visa entry at 2,000 baht fee and cost of financial paperwork. You do not have time to obtain money - you must present it there and then (but does not have to have been in account any set period). You will then have to obtain same type of financial paperwork a second time for actual extension of stay. Currently immigration is accepting such change of entry down to about 11 days remaining on permitted to stay.

[robertson468]

Would just like to add information to the thread.

Over my time here, I have obtained two multi-entry O-A visas from Honorary Consulates within the US. And, a friend has just arrived with his.

The medical requirement is a very simple one-page form that can be checked off and signed in a clinic. (Even the small clinics that do medical testing for job applicants can complete this form. Or, as in my case a neighborhood clinic did it for free. In, about five minutes time)

The background check can be a simple form from a police or sheriff station. ($5 in Florida)

Proof of sufficient funds (800,000) baht can be a copied US bank/brokerage statement. And, a simple recent letter from the bank/brokerage stating that the funds are in the bank. No need to transfer funds here.

A multi-entry O-A will allow a stay in the Kingdom for almost two years (depending on US departure time). Requiring, one timely border crossing to activate the second year of visa stay.

Yes, after getting here by some other visa, the extension of stay can be done in Thailand. But, money transfers/embassy income certification must be done before the extension is completed. And multiple trips to Thai Immigration to do this.

Which way is best for someone depends on whether they want to do the application work on the US side, or the Thai side.

But, I found it rather easy to do the O-A application on the US side.

Cheers

You don't need the 800,000 in the bank if you can get your hon consulate to provide a letter stating you have a monthly income (pensions?) over 65,000 baht, but do check that amount, it might be a little less.

[thaikahuna]

The tea leaves are telling me its time to try a different country

Well if you're looking for a retirement visa system that offers more long term security than Thailand, that would make sense. If you're just bothered by the rudeness from the DC embassy I'd say just avoid them!

I have experienced more rudeness from the wonderful TSA folks in the USA. I was just suprised by the attitude of the lady I spoke to at the DC Embassy, especially since my passport shows multiple extensions of stay, all in good order and legal.

I've already booked my flight so I'll try converting the 30 visa waiver to a 90 day Imm O, then extend based on Retirement. If that doesn't work, its on the road again

Or you could jump through the hoops and get the retirement extension of a non-O visa before you leave.....it can be done but not in a week. If you wait and do it (Retirement Extension) here you first have to convert to a Non-O and wait at least 60 days before you can apply to upgrade. That means 2 sets of paperwork and 2 trips to the Embassy for income letters at $50 a pop. Or do like the OP mentioned and go through the Honorary Consulates....less headache, same paperwork.