Farang Thai Boxers

[Ulysses G.]

Many years ago there was a farang that was kicking all the local Thaiboxer's butts using mostly his hands.

Someone brought in a (champion) ringer from Bangkok, but the farang still won the first round by over-whelming the Thai with his fists.

Finally, the Thai got ONE kick in, broke his leg, and he never fought again.

Butterfly?

Butterfly swept up the stands after the bout.

[Boon Mee]

Many years ago there was a farang that was kicking all the local Thaiboxer's butts using mostly his hands.

Someone brought in a (champion) ringer from Bangkok, but the farang still won the first round by over-whelming the Thai with his fists.

Finally, the Thai got ONE kick in, broke his leg, and he never fought again.

Butterfly?

Butterfly swept up the stands after the bout.

[Uma~~]

I'm baaack!

I just don't like poseurs, idiots, tossers, or muppets (which I can see from your avatar that you proudly are)

Typical! I get slagged off by the board's resident hags and then banned before I can reply.

I suppose the female equivalent of this would be the tourist ladies that get up and dance around the poles in Go-go bars.

It's all good and no one gets killed ( usually )

Chon

Ahh, but that's just for fun, not to prove a point or to challenge the Thai girls although you would not find me doing it as I probably would get beaten up.

By the guys having to watch you? ?

What is wrong with you?

[Ulysses G.]

I'm baaack!

I just don't like poseurs, idiots, tossers, or muppets (which I can see from your avatar that you proudly are)

Typical! I get slagged off by the board's resident hags and then banned before I can reply.

I suppose the female equivalent of this would be the tourist ladies that get up and dance around the poles in Go-go bars.

It's all good and no one gets killed ( usually )

Chon

Ahh, but that's just for fun, not to prove a point or to challenge the Thai girls although you would not find me doing it as I probably would get beaten up.

By the guys having to watch you? ?

What is wrong with you?

I don't think that he likes being called a "Muppet".

Maybe if you apologize?

[sabaijai]

It's very easy nowadays for a farang to have a match against a Thai opponent unless he/she is really big. There are plenty of boxing gyms that will arrange for bouts all over the country. Since most Thai boxers have many fights under their belts, there's a good chance that the farang with little experience will have some trouble. Fighting under Thai rules here is a big challenge and Thai boxers have lots of respect for farangs who decide to try it out. The attitude of the average fighter here is so much better than back in the West. Most Thai boxers are very down to earth and humble in their mannerisms.

The money one can earn fighting here is very, very low by Western standards unless you get into the really big matches like Jean Charles Skarbowsky (France) or John Wayne Parr (Australia). The majority of foreigners who do fight Thai opponents do so mainly for experience which they then use in bouts back in their home countries.

I've been a muay thai fan since the 70s. For many years the Thais allowed farangs to train but they seldom accepted them into the big stadiums. When I asked why, the Thai fans would say it was because they didn't want farangs to disrespect the culture. I suspected they were worried they'd be defeated, etc.

I saw John Wayne Parr win a fight at Ratchadamnoen stadium a couple of years ago. He fought exceptionally well, then ruined it all by grandstanding after his victory (beating the chest, running around the ring, etc).

I saw another match not so long ago in Chiang Mai where a farang boxer was taunting his Thai opponent while the latter was performing his ram muay/wai khru (dance-like ritual paying respects to his trainers and to the spirits of muay thai). The Thais in the audience looked mortified. When the farang won the match, he jumped up on the ropes to claim his victory, and the Thais looked even more visibly upset, since it's taboo to stand on the ropes (and to climb over the topmost rope, which I've also seen farangs do).

The other thing I see a lot is western fighters rushing the 1st round, becoming very aggressive right out of the corner (just as they might in western boxing), going against the Thai custom of taking it slow the 1st round, sizing up your opponent while bobbing ane weaving to the live music.

Lastly when a Thai fighter sees he's outfighting his opponent, he does just enough to win without causing too much damage, while most of the Western fighters I've seen in the ring with Thais began destroying their opponent as soon as they see they have the advantage. I've seen this just as often with Western female fighters as with male, by the way, perhaps even more.

Now I understand why the Thais didn't want to have foreigners in the stadium fights. In muay thai the point isn't simply to win, it's to fight with honour and decorum. Yes victory is a prime goal but you're never supposed to lord it over the losing fighter or disrespect the ring environment.

I don't think non-Thais should be banned, but I think more of the training should emphasise the Thai ring customs - I know this stuff is covered in most camps but the a lot ot the farangs don't seem to be taking it much to heart.

I've seen a few farang fighters who do everything strictly according to custom and who are very respectful, but judging from the westerner-Thai matches I've seen - and I've seen quite a few - they seem to be in the minority. Under the influence of Western fighters (who are becoming very common on Lumpinin and Ratchadamnoen cards) I think we're going to see muay thai changing a lot in the coming years, losing some of its art and grace.

[Ulysses G.]

Lastly when a Thai fighter sees he's outfighting his opponent, he does just enough to win without causing too much damage, while most of the Western fighters I've seen in the ring with Thais began destroying their opponent as soon as they see they have the advantage.

If Thai boxers adopt this tactic when fighting Westerners, I predict that there soon won't be any around to ruin the game!

[steveromagnino]

My uncle used to own a Muay Thai gym, I've trained myself and while I am terrible I do have the privelege of having met many of the major promoters of Muay Thai over the last few years. Therefore, I'll add my observations to the mix.

In the 1970s, the Chinese were the first major foreign force to challenge Thais with the Kung <deleted> vs. Muay Thai battles. The first few ended all in the first round with the Chinese unable to handle the leg kicks. These continued for a while, but eventually wound up when the major stadiums got less and less attendance as the novelty wore off and the inability to bet without knowing odds/form and also with a prohibitive favourite.

Through the 80s to now, a few westerners have risen to fight at Lumpini and Ratchadamnoen; most Thais who are 'into' Muay Thai and the betting rate Diamond Dekker as the best of the lot, and I think he made it to about 5th of so in the top 10 of Lumpini. Looking at him now, he was clearly a great fighter, but like most westerners was relatively stronger in the hands and weaker in the grapple and elbows than his Thai equivalents. he was a great star, and much loved by many of the Thai fans who respect that he fought in their minds like a Thai and had some battles that he stuck at.

Parr used to fight in New Zealand and was not really a standout any of the times I saw him fight, but more recently I think a lot of Australians and New Zealanders training seriously over here are getting a lot better. Chopper from NZ (Shane Chapman) was a much better fighter IMHO.

The thing about Muay Thai, is the promotor is putting on a spotr to make money and allow betting. There would be no point in putting Parr in with the top guy at Lumpini because it might not be a fair fight. Better to put him in with someone of his level, and then people get to see a real fight. Losing in Muay Thai does not carry the penalties like boxing (no one has undefeated records like in western boxing). I have no knowledge of rigged judging other than the comments from trainers that western judges tend to miss a lot of the subtleties of grappling and so on, with an emphasis placed on hands whereas Thai judges tend to discount hands; when we consider the strength of most western fighters is their hands, that causes a bias.

For the Kings Cup and the fights on his Majesty's birthday, there is a ton of westerners vs. Thai, and the results are abuot 50 50 between foreign and Thai. The standard I've seen of the westerners would not for the most part be able to last more than a round or two in Lumpini against the champs, but the aim is for a show, and what show would there be if it is as over in 30 seconds? Therefore, I don't think they tell the Thai fighters to go easy, but rather they pick a suitable oppponent of similar skill.

If Dekker fought, then you'd see a Lumpini champ up against him no doubt. If I fight, you'll see some 'dek sammuk len'.

For sure when Thais fight overseas, they are often told to go slow or take it easy on their opponents. In NZ it is not uncommon for the Thais to also give up 10kg against their opponent. That's a price for the payday, and also again a reflection of the need to match the skills. If Parr was fighting in Australia, he would be up against a Thai of his size no doubt, if it was some newbie, then the match up would be different.

While the judging favours the other weapons, partly as a result of the match ups against westerners, Japanese, middle easteners and so on, the Thai fighters have become less one dimensional than before; previously there were knee specialists and so on; now each fighter must be more of a generalist... the hand speed and style is improving a lot partly as a result of the foreigners and the sparring in the gyms where they can learn new things; for anyone saying Thais have bad hands I'd point out that Muay Thai fighters seem to do fine in olympic and professional boxing; the capability is there, and nowadays the need to do so in the ring for Muay Thai is there too.

The first round varies; for most fighters it is a warm up round used to test out the opponent and carries generally less importance than the other rounds; however there is no reason to hold back and I've seen a few fights with grudge match elements which went hammers and tongs almost straight away.

Regarding westerner decorum, I think that if any fighter cannot enter the ring, and pay tribute to his trainer and the King with decorum then he loses the respect of the crowd. There are various moves such as shooting the arrow and catching the snake that westerners seem to love to do, and for the most part the Thais I know get a kick out of seeing it even if it is the sort of thing you'd expect from a kid rather than an adult.

I know there are a ton of serious Muay Thai fighters from overseas traiing here, who are here only for the training. They do themselves and the sport a great honour by making massive sacrifices to come here and train and to fight. If you get a chance to see the amatuer fights which I believe are around Sep? it is well worth it; I want to volunteer to support that event in some way because I believe Muay Thai is one of the best exports of Thai culture and unlike the K1 is a complete sporting spectacle for amateurs and pros alike. I don't thiink you ever have to worry about Thais being scared or worried about fighting anyone in the ring; if they don't want to fight they don't have to get into the ring; this is however their profession so they will give it a shot :-)

El Tel - you, mate, are a complete tool, yourself ... 'You gotta admit it though, Thai men are mostly complete and utter ######s who will only take on a western guy tooled-up or mob-handed.'

Please advise your address, so I can arrange for my boyeess to come round and sort you out with tools and stuff. Why you are not banned is beyond my comprehension. Cheers.

[Fast Eddie]

I'm baaack!

Not for long mate, by the looks of things

[Boo]

Yep, your right el tel, I will have my way ifyou don't learn to keep your mysoganistic opinions to yourself. If you don't like women then don't post about them, I'm sure the gay forum will tolerate you.

[Boo]

No, read the post, I never called you gay but suggested you try the gay forum as it is mostly men who post there. Your opinion, as I have said before, is your own and I fortunately don't have to read it. If you can't post without making mysoganistic comments about women then don't post. Is my English not simple enough for you to understand, or would you like a male mod to reiterate?

[dantilley]

Three quotes from Uma's original post which quite clearly state that she is not just arbitrarily slagging off all farrang men:

I have loved Thailand since my first visit and I have found most people, both farangs and Thai's to be very pleasant.

I'm not the type to turn my nose up at western men in Thailand who frequent the barscene and I try to treat everyone the same

I am not tarring all with the same brush and can only speak from my own experiences

Quite where this "farrang women bashing / farrang men bashing" thing came from with the above caveats clearly in place in the OP is beyond me.

[Uma~~]

Three quotes from Uma's original post which quite clearly state that she is not just arbitrarily slagging off all farrang men:

You have saved me the bother, thankyou Mr Dantilly.

[Ijustwannateach]

PLEASE don't tell El Tel to come to the Gay Forum!!!!

Hi, El. Ajarn get too slow?

"Steven"

[Uma~~]

No, read the post, I never called you gay.........would you like a male mod to reiterate?

Yeah, as he'd probably make more sense.

You never called me gay but it was implied.

Get real! If I told you to stick to the Lesbo forum, what would you think I meant?

Is my English not simple enough for you to understand

Yep, your (you're??) right el tel

Well, your grammar needs some work!!

I would calm down if I were you.

Go away and ask yourself who you really are. If you are attracted to men then it's only you that has a problem with it and if you let go of your hang ups you'll be a happier man.

Forget about what your father will think because you never have to tell him, why should you live in denial and agony just to please another man who has even bigger hang ups?

Nobody here will turn their back on you but before coming back be honest with yourself and polite to others.

Thankyou.

[dantilley]

Forget about what your father will think because you never have to tell him

Actually, my father just recently died.

Well, that's the end of this thread then...

[udon]

Forget about what your father will think because you never have to tell him

Actually, my father just recently died.

Don't forget to wave Goodbye, Paddy.

[steveromagnino]

Forget about what your father will think because you never have to tell him

Actually, my father just recently died.

Don't forget to wave Goodbye, Paddy.

Is it just me or is the fruit wearing cat head wear not the coolest thing ever?

Nice one :-) Udon, did the cat make it him/herself?

[muay_thai2]

Fair play to anyone who steps in that ring, it takes a lot of guts (or beers :>) before you start slating people either try competing in the ring yourself or take up the sport, if your from Manchester it's very big there clubs everywhere.

Once you've been in the ring for one professional fight, then ask yourself would you go in there and compete against the best in the world just to look good?

I've seen guys get broken arms in 6 seconds, and people stretchered off in thailand.

At the end of the day, the thai person isn't forced to fight the farang he fights him as he is prepared to it's there choice and almost every fight I have seen afterwards both fighters look like the best of friends win or lose.

Not having a go, but give it a shot then see what you think.

SABAIJAI, where did you pick up on not being able to climb over the top rope? From what I've seen every thai boxer will go over the top rope, I questioned this with my trainer when over in thailand and it's a thai tradition to not open the ropes thereby preventing 'fighting' spirits from leaving the ring. (Either that or they just wanted to see farangs fall over as they stretched over the top rope!!) :>

Edited February 4, 2006 by muay_thai2

[Thaiboxer]

There are no traditional, unwritten rules which prevent a boxer from going over the top rope....unless the boxer is female. It is believed that if a female crosses over the top rope that it will bring about a curse/bad luck. It wasn't until recently that women began competing in Muay Thai on a large scale but this old tradition still stands. There are separate rings in Thailand for the ladies to fight in.

[robitusson]

It's very easy nowadays for a farang to have a match against a Thai opponent unless he/she is really big. There are plenty of boxing gyms that will arrange for bouts all over the country. Since most Thai boxers have many fights under their belts, there's a good chance that the farang with little experience will have some trouble. Fighting under Thai rules here is a big challenge and Thai boxers have lots of respect for farangs who decide to try it out. The attitude of the average fighter here is so much better than back in the West. Most Thai boxers are very down to earth and humble in their mannerisms.

The money one can earn fighting here is very, very low by Western standards unless you get into the really big matches like Jean Charles Skarbowsky (France) or John Wayne Parr (Australia). The majority of foreigners who do fight Thai opponents do so mainly for experience which they then use in bouts back in their home countries.

I've been a muay thai fan since the 70s. For many years the Thais allowed farangs to train but they seldom accepted them into the big stadiums. When I asked why, the Thai fans would say it was because they didn't want farangs to disrespect the culture. I suspected they were worried they'd be defeated, etc.

I saw John Wayne Parr win a fight at Ratchadamnoen stadium a couple of years ago. He fought exceptionally well, then ruined it all by grandstanding after his victory (beating the chest, running around the ring, etc).

I saw another match not so long ago in Chiang Mai where a farang boxer was taunting his Thai opponent while the latter was performing his ram muay/wai khru (dance-like ritual paying respects to his trainers and to the spirits of muay thai). The Thais in the audience looked mortified. When the farang won the match, he jumped up on the ropes to claim his victory, and the Thais looked even more visibly upset, since it's taboo to stand on the ropes (and to climb over the topmost rope, which I've also seen farangs do).

The other thing I see a lot is western fighters rushing the 1st round, becoming very aggressive right out of the corner (just as they might in western boxing), going against the Thai custom of taking it slow the 1st round, sizing up your opponent while bobbing ane weaving to the live music.

Lastly when a Thai fighter sees he's outfighting his opponent, he does just enough to win without causing too much damage, while most of the Western fighters I've seen in the ring with Thais began destroying their opponent as soon as they see they have the advantage. I've seen this just as often with Western female fighters as with male, by the way, perhaps even more.

Now I understand why the Thais didn't want to have foreigners in the stadium fights. In muay thai the point isn't simply to win, it's to fight with honour and decorum. Yes victory is a prime goal but you're never supposed to lord it over the losing fighter or disrespect the ring environment.

I don't think non-Thais should be banned, but I think more of the training should emphasise the Thai ring customs - I know this stuff is covered in most camps but the a lot ot the farangs don't seem to be taking it much to heart.

I've seen a few farang fighters who do everything strictly according to custom and who are very respectful, but judging from the westerner-Thai matches I've seen - and I've seen quite a few - they seem to be in the minority. Under the influence of Western fighters (who are becoming very common on Lumpinin and Ratchadamnoen cards) I think we're going to see muay thai changing a lot in the coming years, losing some of its art and grace.

The Thai fighters do have a more moderate and less aggressive approach than the foreign fighters, that's true. Though I think it's got more to do with money and betting than grace and decorum. The odds for each fighter constantly go up and down as the five rounds progress. The promoters and bookies want the maximum amount of bets made during the fight. If there's a quick win in a couple of rounds, they miss out on all the gambling in the rounds that would have been fought. If a fighter is winning he may want to string the fight out to improve his odds for his next fight, as well as not wanting to annihilate his opponent. Also much of this ring politeness doesn't always get shown to foreigners. Most Westerners are respectful of the ring culture in my opinion. Obviously they're going to do things differently of course but they're doing fine so far and are a huge assest to the sport I think.

[steveromagnino]

Most Westerners are respectful of the ring culture in my opinion. Obviously they're going to do things differently of course but they're doing fine so far and are a huge assest to the sport I think.

Since I'd love to see Muay Thai in the olympics one day, then I think how can we not fight all nationalities?

[robitusson]

They're applying for it. Amateur rules of course complete with headgear and bodypads, not as good to watch I think but it'll be great for the sport.

[Thaiboxer]

There is a dilemma with regards to getting Muay Thai into the Olympics: The name of a sport cannot contain the name of its country. This causes all sorts of debates, particularly among SEA countries which all claim that they invented Muay Thai. Burma, Cambodia and Laos all practice their own forms of Muay and hold fights regularly. Thailand is the only country which has really commercialized this martial art. Kickboxing on the other hand is NOT Muay Thai as it doesn't allow for the same techniques (especially elbow strikes) during contests. Perhaps those in charge of implementing Olympic sports will need to come up with a name for Muay Thai which distinguishes the art but at the same time does not contain "Thai" in the name.

[robitusson]

There is a dilemma with regards to getting Muay Thai into the Olympics: The name of a sport cannot contain the name of its country. This causes all sorts of debates, particularly among SEA countries which all claim that they invented Muay Thai. Burma, Cambodia and Laos all practice their own forms of Muay and hold fights regularly. Thailand is the only country which has really commercialized this martial art. Kickboxing on the other hand is NOT Muay Thai as it doesn't allow for the same techniques (especially elbow strikes) during contests. Perhaps those in charge of implementing Olympic sports will need to come up with a name for Muay Thai which distinguishes the art but at the same time does not contain "Thai" in the name.

This might be a bit simplistic but like most high Thai culture, it came from India.

[LoveDaBlues]

Forget about what your father will think because you never have to tell him

Actually, my father just recently died.

Don't forget to wave Goodbye, Paddy.

Is it just me or is the fruit wearing cat head wear not the coolest thing ever?

Nice one :-) Udon, did the cat make it him/herself?

Off topic I know......but yea I like the cat helmet it's cool!!! And I don't even like cats!

[steveromagnino]

This might be a bit simplistic but like most high Thai culture, it came from India.

i think the fine art of of administering a beating has been around for quite a while!

First caveman: ug [translation...you spoilin' fer rumble?]

2nd caveman: er [they do though don't they though. ya mutha were a slag and ya father smelled like alderberries]

cue generous beatings.

The style here though is somewhat different to say Burma (which I am familiar with) and has evolved to its present state with amendments from gloves, ring, certain strikes and scoring. I cannot comment on the other countries, as I haven't seen their styles.

I'd say that being the case, then let's pitch it as 'Muay' is enough. Or Siamese Boxing.

[Wes Turner]

I dont think i would get in the ring with a thai boxer, this is their country and I would feel bad if i hurt one of them but the ladyboxers are cool and i would get in a bedroom with one and i nearly did i kissed one lastb year and she was only small but she had a real firm stummoch and she pulled me close to her with good strengthand she was small too.

Ladyboxing is the coolest of the sports!

[kidtheung]

SABAIJAI, where did you pick up on not being able to climb over the top rope? From what I've seen every thai boxer will go over the top rope, I questioned this with my trainer when over in thailand and it's a thai tradition to not open the ropes thereby preventing 'fighting' spirits from leaving the ring. (Either that or they just wanted to see farangs fall over as they stretched over the top rope!!) :>

To my knowledge the reason why all Muay Thai boxers climb over the top rope lies in Buddhism. In Thai Buddhism the head is concidered sacret. I guess the same principle applies as it's prohibited for a thai (child) to for example crawl trough somebody's legs. The head needs to stay the top part of the body.

[kidtheung]

There is a dilemma with regards to getting Muay Thai into the Olympics: The name of a sport cannot contain the name of its country. This causes all sorts of debates, particularly among SEA countries which all claim that they invented Muay Thai. Burma, Cambodia and Laos all practice their own forms of Muay and hold fights regularly. Thailand is the only country which has really commercialized this martial art. Kickboxing on the other hand is NOT Muay Thai as it doesn't allow for the same techniques (especially elbow strikes) during contests. Perhaps those in charge of implementing Olympic sports will need to come up with a name for Muay Thai which distinguishes the art but at the same time does not contain "Thai" in the name.

How about American Football (is it even Olympic ??)

[Thaiboxer]

American Football is not an Olympic sport as far as I know and on top of that I don't think it's popular enough worldwide to have many competitors from different countries. I've heard that it has become popular to an extent in Japan recently.