Juristic Person Manager - Are Duties/Roles Clearly Defined?

[chris2004]

I see my role as JPM to implement the wishes and decisions of the committee. The committee agrees actions in relation to the condo but these in practice are undertaken by the thai office manager (and her staff) guided by the thai management company. The committee ensures the condo is run well and the finances are in order. I present information to other co-owners at AGMs etc and seek their approval for major policy changes. I also sign all cheques for condo spending. I also sign off debt free letters where condos are sold.

chris2004-If the office manager was asked to name her boss-what would be her reply?

She would probably say the committee as they agree her salary/bonus and hiring/firing etc.

We originally had the thai developer as the JPM but this was a disaster. He charged a large monthly salary, did very little IMO and there is always doubt as to how the financial affairs are managed in this situation. Although i don't speak/read thai i, and my fellow committee members, see all expenditure and can check it against budget and query any variations. I think if condos are to be well run they need a strong committee and an input from the farang co-owners. As JPM i don't report to the committee as such i chair the committee and the office manager, and management company, is present at all meetings.

[Delight]

I see my role as JPM to implement the wishes and decisions of the committee. The committee agrees actions in relation to the condo but these in practice are undertaken by the thai office manager (and her staff) guided by the thai management company. The committee ensures the condo is run well and the finances are in order. I present information to other co-owners at AGMs etc and seek their approval for major policy changes. I also sign all cheques for condo spending. I also sign off debt free letters where condos are sold.

chris2004-If the office manager was asked to name her boss-what would be her reply?

She would probably say the committee as they agree her salary/bonus and hiring/firing etc.

We originally had the thai developer as the JPM but this was a disaster. He charged a large monthly salary, did very little IMO and there is always doubt as to how the financial affairs are managed in this situation. Although i don't speak/read thai i, and my fellow committee members, see all expenditure and can check it against budget and query any variations. I think if condos are to be well run they need a strong committee and an input from the farang co-owners. As JPM i don't report to the committee as such i chair the committee and the office manager, and management company, is present at all meetings.

The various parties have worked out a system that works .

Just different to that which is detailed in the act.

Typically a management company supply both the JPM and the office/building manager.

As Ripley stated earlier -as JPM you have no juristic protection-as such you can be held legally responsible for any misdeeds. The committee and the office manager are protected.

[ripley]

I also subscribe to Delight's philosophy: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". By and large most condo owners are lethargic and don't take much interest in business affairs. While this leaves the door wide open to dishonest practices, it also allows sensible people to develop a system of checks and balances that works for their building.

The problem occurs when - for whatever reason - the authorities are called upon to address a situation. That can mean big trouble or at least inconvenience and a change in structure. For this reason I think we're all wise to share information about Thai Law and what can happen so that we can take every precaution to be in compliance. One of the best sources of information is actual case studies & experience as the reality often seems to conflict with interpretation of the law as written.

Regarding farang JPMs: I don't doubt their good intentions, nor would I want to live in a building that lacks strong farang representation. My concern is that - if you can't speak and read Thai and are not familiar with Thai Law - as JPM, documents will have to be translated for you to understand what you're signing off on. And who pays for that? And how do you know the translations are accurate & the advice you're being given is correct? Seems to me you're operating in the dark.

Edited April 25, 2013 by ripley

[aegdawson]

RE: Foreigner that is a committee member as a JPM, - work permit requirement

Can any one give an authoritative answer to this?

We called both Immigration and labor office and got conflicting answers. Is it required yes or no?

Also could it be obtained by the condominium juristic person on behalf of the foreigner?

[Delight]

We called both Immigration and labor office and got conflicting answers. Is it required yes or no?

Which department said ' yes' and which department said' no'?

Edited April 30, 2013 by Delight

[ripley]

A foreigner who fills the role of "Juristic Person Manager" in a condominium must have a work permit or face the real possibility of arrest. I don't know what the penalties will be for the JPM who was recently arrested, but assume the possibility of deportation.

Judging by the recent example mentioned in my post, it would appear that committee members do not require work permits, as the JPM who was arrested was also a a committee member and not cited for that.

[ripley]

P.S. I just googled it and Tilleke & Gibbons have written an article on this subject. They say, among other things, that the definition of "work" includes volunteer work and the penalties are fines, imprisonment for up to 5 yrs. or deportation. And that simple deportation is the usual penalty. Further, a person can be forbidden to re-enter the Kingdom.

As I've mentioned, the reality "on the ground" can only be seen by the test cases before us, and as such I don't think Committee work falls under this category.

There is also a difference between what the authorities can do and what they will do.

Edited May 2, 2013 by ripley

[aegdawson]

We called both Immigration and labor office and got conflicting answers. Is it required yes or no?

Which department said ' yes' and which department said' no'?

3 lawyers said don't need a work permit. Both labor and immigration departments didn't appear to have a definitive answer... seems like a gray area. But in your later posts you mention an arrest so I guess it is a requirement if one wants to be 100% safe.

[kirkieb]

I'm in a situation where our Committee have dissolved and we need to re establish a new one. In my endeavours to do this I have realised they don't have a constitution nor do they have a Juristic person.

Question one is how can I get a Juristic person so I can write a new constitution to have a AGM then elect new committee.

Question 2 is after reading many different Thai Acts. I come to the conclusion that people who don't pay their maintenance fees in the village such as rubbish collection and security cant be forced to.

Can anyone send me in the right direction to try and do this write and start a fresh for the occupants of over 130 Houses

Kindest regards

kirkieb

[smutcakes]

I'm in a situation where our Committee have dissolved and we need to re establish a new one. In my endeavours to do this I have realised they don't have a constitution nor do they have a Juristic person.

Question one is how can I get a Juristic person so I can write a new constitution to have a AGM then elect new committee.

Question 2 is after reading many different Thai Acts. I come to the conclusion that people who don't pay their maintenance fees in the village such as rubbish collection and security cant be forced to.

Can anyone send me in the right direction to try and do this write and start a fresh for the occupants of over 130 Houses

Kindest regards

kirkieb

It does not sound like its registered as a Juristic Person as its not a Condominium. I know some villa developments can be registered but not large housing developments-perhaps there is a way if it was done at the outset.

You need to look at a different set of laws.

Sorry, have just re-read and have probably not answered your question.

[arunah]

Does anyone have a link to the condo act? Thanks

[Delight]

Does anyone have a link to the condo act? Thanks

2008 Condo Act attached plus an index.

New Thailand Condominium Act 2008.pdf

INDEX.pdf