Western Women

[Boo]

but have to inquire, have you lived in Thailand long?

If he says no, does his opinion become less or more important?

[mark45y]

but have to inquire, have you lived in Thailand long?

If he says no, does his opinion become less or more important?

Before I lived in Thailand, when I was a tourist in Thailand or a short stay person in Thailand I did not know Thailand.

I had lovers in Thailand and friends in Thailand but I did not know Thailand.

Spend six months in a Bangkok apartment in the slums without AC and hot water in the summertime. Go to sleep every night in a wet pool of sweat. Get up in the middle of the night to shower to cool off. See how Thai people live.

All the stories about people not liking Farangs seem to disappear. Eating at little places on the street and drinking with Thai Army buddies with limbs blown off and help them polish their one boot.

And when they get to know you they share their secrets.

And you realize the incredible tolerance and love of these people.

Try moving up country to get a different fix on the culture. Live high and socialize with the big wheels, the movers and shakers. Meet the beauty queens and have lunch with the boys in the sauna and hear about how Chiang Mai is really run.

Take a trip to the South and do Pattaya and walking street and see how the sex tourists live.

And a thousand other things.

You tell me. Is his opinion valid? Is living in Thailand a life changing experience? Am I the same man now as I was before I moved to Thailand?

The incredibly beautiful young blind woman who asks you to teach her English.

The lady with the withered arm who asks you if she is beautiful.

The one legged woman who asks you to take her dancing.

No Dorothy, this is not Kansas.

When I was a child I read books about war. I played cowboys and Indians and GI Joe.

Then I went to war. Now I see through a glass darkly and there is no more black and white there only shades of gray.

Edited March 18, 2006 by mark45y

[soic]

I can tell you that I've been to war and see the world with darker glasses myself. I work in a war zone now. I've been in Bosnia, Kosovo and now Iraq. I'm not here to justify that or try to tie this experience with fidelity to a mate.

I can tell you that I've spent plenty of time in Thailand, on and off for 2 years, enough to see the beautiful brown ladies and be tempted. I've spent more than a year in Kuwait, where the beautiful Filipina and Indian ladies reside. I've spent time in Romania with my ex-wife, where an American was a real catch, and a prostitute, should I have wanted one, would have cost me $5 US and I was tempted. I travelled through Bulgaria where I could have picked up a gorgeous gypsy girl for $5 US, where I was tempted. I lived in Hungary for a year, where the ladies walked up and down the walking street in clothes that revealed everything, and I was tempted. I went to the clubs where the ladies would come to sit at my table and tell me the things that they could do for me, should I ask, and I was tempted. Everytime I fly through Dubai, if I go for a beer, there are the Russian and Iranian girls that ask if I'm interested, and darn right, I'm interested, the problem is, I'm in love with my wife. I can't take one of those girls to my bed without wondering if my wife would do the same. I couldn't share her with anybody. I wouldn't want to risk AIDs and take that disease home to infect her. I couldn't cheapen the love that she and I share. For love to be special, it must be shared with between two people. You have to have trust in one another to give that love a fertile ground to grow in.

I've seen the world and I've been tempted. I'm not trying to be holier than thou. Fidelity is a choice and a commitment. When I took my vows, I took them seriously. I meant every word. If I promise my heart, I keep the promise. Everyone has to make that choice on their own. It's not fair to use the "I can't help it excuse". I can't imagine any beautiful brown princess overpowering a Farang and forcing them to have sex with her. I believe it's a choice that is freely made.

[soic]

You tell me. Is his opinion valid? Is living in Thailand a life changing experience? Am I the same man now as I was before I moved to Thailand?

The incredibly beautiful young blind woman who asks you to teach her English.

The lady with the withered arm who asks you if she is beautiful.

The one legged woman who asks you to take her dancing.

No Dorothy, this is not Kansas.

When I was a child I read books about war. I played cowboys and Indians and GI Joe.

Then I went to war. Now I see through a glass darkly and there is no more black and white there only shades of gray.

I have to say that I am offended... I am offended that a man could use the ravages of war or the poverty of a people to justify using his, well... for having sex.

To take advantage of a beautiful blind girl that asked you to teach her english The lady with the withered arm who asks you if she is beautiful. The one legged woman who asks you to take her dancing. Victims that come to someone for help, support or attention, to take advantage of that need and turn it into sex.

Dealing with victims of war don't make me want to have sex, it causes my heart pain. I want to help people like that, not have sex with them. The soldier with the missing leg and single boot? One only has to talk to the Thai people to see how compassionate they are. My home is in a very very small village in Buri-Ram province. I have a store and a restaurant there. All small... What has that got to do with self control or the ravages of war and innocent victims. Mark, if you're gonna reach please don't use war to justify sex. If I were so inclined I could share photos of children blown apart, gunshot wounds, IED's and other forms of death and injury. None of that inspires me to have sex. Starving children, wounded men, or women looking for their families don't inspire me to have sex. I've seen all the above in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq. I was never inspired to have sex with any of the victims of war. My view of the world has changed, I'm now jaded, I see with darker glasses. I look out for predators, because I know that they come in many disguises. I don't look for potential victims... Sorry, I just get upset when people use victims for ulterior motives.

I slept in tents in the desert, no a/c and 120 F by 9am while I worked the nightshift. Eating MRE's everyday and night. I don't have A/C in my house now... I chose not too, my family can live without it, so can I. All of my experience has made me more compassionate towards other people, not increased my libido.

Edited March 18, 2006 by soic

[mark45y]

I can tell you that I've been to war and see the world with darker glasses myself. I work in a war zone now. I've been in Bosnia, Kosovo and now Iraq. I'm not here to justify that or try to tie this experience with fidelity to a mate.

I can tell you that I've spent plenty of time in Thailand, on and off for 2 years, enough to see the beautiful brown ladies and be tempted. I've spent more than a year in Kuwait, where the beautiful Filipina and Indian ladies reside. I've spent time in Romania with my ex-wife, where an American was a real catch, and a prostitute, should I have wanted one, would have cost me $5 US and I was tempted. I travelled through Bulgaria where I could have picked up a gorgeous gypsy girl for $5 US, where I was tempted. I lived in Hungary for a year, where the ladies walked up and down the walking street in clothes that revealed everything, and I was tempted. I went to the clubs where the ladies would come to sit at my table and tell me the things that they could do for me, should I ask, and I was tempted. Everytime I fly through Dubai, if I go for a beer, there are the Russian and Iranian girls that ask if I'm interested, and darn right, I'm interested, the problem is, I'm in love with my wife. I can't take one of those girls to my bed without wondering if my wife would do the same. I couldn't share her with anybody. I wouldn't want to risk AIDs and take that disease home to infect her. I couldn't cheapen the love that she and I share. For love to be special, it must be shared with between two people. You have to have trust in one another to give that love a fertile ground to grow in.

I've seen the world and I've been tempted. I'm not trying to be holier than thou. Fidelity is a choice and a commitment. When I took my vows, I took them seriously. I meant every word. If I promise my heart, I keep the promise. Everyone has to make that choice on their own. It's not fair to use the "I can't help it excuse". I can't imagine any beautiful brown princess overpowering a Farang and forcing them to have sex with her. I believe it's a choice that is freely made.

Well written. Like I said before I respect your views. I simply can’t imagine working in Iraq. I must be awful. I was at war and business in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Taiwan. Dangerous but always had a bright side, the women.

Fidelity is a rare commodity here. It is not treasured among men and infidelity is accepted by Thai women as a given as long as it is discreet.

The important thing is face. Love is not love as it is understood in the West.

The Western concept of love between two people is not the same as the Thai concept of love.

Farang love is for better or worse till death do us part.

Thai love between a Farang and a Thai is for better and if it is not better you are history.

I have the feeling Farang love is similar in reality but not so much in the fairy tale existence of Farang women.

In the West you may get a divorce because of emotional issues. That doesn’t happen in Thailand. As long as you have the cash and are somewhat discreet you will have the wife. I am not talking about bar girls. I repeat that, I am not talking about bar girls.

I am sure there are couples living in Thailand where the man has the financial ability to have a Mia noi and does not have one. I just don’t know any.

I am suggesting that after you live here for a while you will change. You seem to think I am tempted by hookers. Never once in my previous post did I mention hookers.

You mention hookers from Romania, Russia, the Philippines, gypsy hookers, Iranian (you gotta be kidding) hookers, Hungarian hookers. My God man you have been exposed to a bunch of hookers.

I am not a sex tourist. I don’t do hookers. I live in Thailand for gosh sake. I can have four 19 year old University students that speak perfect English for $220.00 a month why on earth would I look at hookers. Ya, that is for all four. Tacky, tacky I told myself not to write this but I can’t help it.

I of course have not chosen that path. Actually I am thinking about checking into a local Wat for three months to get my spiritual side together. Farangs are more than welcome at Wats. The monks like to practice their English. I don’t know why this is the case but it is.

I wish you well. I looked at the pics of you and your wife and she is a stunner. I can understand why you are devoted to her. Write me in a couple of years and tell me how things are going. I should be out of the monastery by then.

[mark45y]

You tell me. Is his opinion valid? Is living in Thailand a life changing experience? Am I the same man now as I was before I moved to Thailand?

The incredibly beautiful young blind woman who asks you to teach her English.

The lady with the withered arm who asks you if she is beautiful.

The one legged woman who asks you to take her dancing.

No Dorothy, this is not Kansas.

When I was a child I read books about war. I played cowboys and Indians and GI Joe.

Then I went to war. Now I see through a glass darkly and there is no more black and white there only shades of gray.

I have to say that I am offended... I am offended that a man could use the ravages of war or the poverty of a people to justify using his, well... for having sex.

To take advantage of a beautiful blind girl that asked you to teach her english The lady with the withered arm who asks you if she is beautiful. The one legged woman who asks you to take her dancing. Victims that come to someone for help, support or attention, to take advantage of that need and turn it into sex.

Dealing with victims of war don't make me want to have sex, it causes my heart pain. I want to help people like that, not have sex with them. The soldier with the missing leg and single boot? One only has to talk to the Thai people to see how compassionate they are. My home is in a very very small village in Buri-Ram province. I have a store and a restaurant there. All small... What has that got to do with self control or the ravages of war and innocent victims. Mark, if you're gonna reach please don't use war to justify sex. If I were so inclined I could share photos of children blown apart, gunshot wounds, IED's and other forms of death and injury. None of that inspires me to have sex. Starving children, wounded men, or women looking for their families don't inspire me to have sex. I've seen all the above in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq. I was never inspired to have sex with any of the victims of war. My view of the world has changed, I'm now jaded, I see with darker glasses. I look out for predators, because I know that they come in many disguises. I don't look for potential victims... Sorry, I just get upset when people use victims for ulterior motives.

I slept in tents in the desert, no a/c and 120 F by 9am while I worked the nightshift. Eating MRE's everyday and night. I don't have A/C in my house now... I chose not too, my family can live without it, so can I. All of my experience has made me more compassionate towards other people, not increased my libido.

Now that is grist. Chopped corn between two stones. And you found the point. I didn’t think anyone would get it. You are dead wrong but you got part of it.

I didn’t have sex with the blind woman. She asked me to have sex but I did not have sex with her.

I didn’t have sex with the one legged woman. She asked me to have sex but I did not have sex with her.

I didn’t have sex with the wife of the one legged soldier although she asked me to have sex and she was beautiful.

And the above is just the tip of the iceberg.

Never did I say I had sex with any of the above people in my post.

You assumed it because you have already made a judgment about my character.

[soic]

If you had read all of the post, rather than skimming, you might have understood. I wasn't saying that all I saw were hookers. In Kuwait, the filipinas and indians weren't hookers, the Kuwaiti ladies definitely weren't hookers. The Romanians, not all hookers but there were some. In Hungary, all the young ladies dress sexy, not just the hookers. My point was that I was tempted and didn't feel the need to partake. I was flirted with and asked out and tempted by many of all social classes.

When two people connect they connect, regardless of culture. I'll tell you a little story... when I first met my wife, she was working in a factory far away from her home. We talked about dreams and plans for the future. We even bought a book to see what kind of houses we liked. I fell in love and started sending her money to move her back to her village to be with her sons. I sent money regularly... then she asked for extra money to help her sick son, I sent it, then 3 weeks later she asked for even more to fix the front door of her house. I had heard all the stories of the mulitple farang boyfriends and thought I was being scammed. I stopped sending money and talking to her. I went back to Thailand for another vacation months later and accidently ran across her, she was so glad to see me. She begged me to take her to her village to see her Mom and sons. I rented a car and drove her. She told me that she had a surprise for me when we got there. I met her Mom and sons and we went for a walk. She took me to a new house, It was made in the old Thail tradition, all teak wood. It was beautiful, small, only one bedroom with two porches, but beautiful. I asked her how? why? It was the house that I had picked out all those months before. She told me that she sold her rice farm inheritence, emptied her savings account, sold all of her gold and then she actually worked in a rice field and washed other peoples clothes to pay for all that. When I walked through that village everyone knew me, how? when I'd never been there. She showed them my picture and told them that I built that house. I hadn't even sent her $1000 dollars by that time. She did all that for me, bought that land and had that house built piece by piece just the way I wanted it. Since then, I've built on and bought the store and done my part... I'll tell you, I've never felt a love like that before. If that's not for better or worse, I dont' know what is. I abandoned her when I thought she was scamming me. There are ladies, beautiful Thai ladies that will marry you for better or worse. You have to look in the right places. I thank God for her everyday. I couldn't cheat on her.

[soic]

I don't want these opposing views to cloud the issues or cause tempers to flare. I'll agree that I may not see Thailand or the Thai people in the same way that others see them. I would venture to say that I don't see anyone of any culture quite the same way that others see them. I don't hang out in public places often. I look at the world completely differently, I'm leary, cautious and very observant. I always try to find good in everybody, I have to hope that there is some. I get angry when I see or think I see someone that revels in the more debased parts of society or that victimizes innocents. I tend to get too angry too quickly when it comes to that. If I have mis-understood or offended anyone with my rant, I apologize. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views.

I will maintain my views and hold strong to the ideals in which I believe. Those are what I hold on to and what makes my world real. I don't think that I'd be contacting anyone in the next year or month to see if I still have the same ideals, I know that I will. Previous Divorce hasn't changed the way I feel, nor will it ever. Couples have a difficult enough chance of staying together now days and the relationship doesn't need the added hurdle of infidelity to trip it up further.

[Boo]

QUOTE(Boo @ 2006-03-18 20:48:10)

QUOTE

but have to inquire, have you lived in Thailand long?

If he says no, does his opinion become less or more important?

mark45y Posted Yesterday, 2006-03-18 14:46:47

Before I lived in Thailand, when I was a tourist in Thailand or a short stay person in Thailand I did not know Thailand.

I had lovers in Thailand and friends in Thailand but I did not know Thailand.

Spend six months in a Bangkok apartment in the slums without AC and hot water in the summertime. Go to sleep every night in a wet pool of sweat. Get up in the middle of the night to shower to cool off. See how Thai people live.

All the stories about people not liking Farangs seem to disappear. Eating at little places on the street and drinking with Thai Army buddies with limbs blown off and help them polish their one boot.

And when they get to know you they share their secrets.

And you realize the incredible tolerance and love of these people.

Try moving up country to get a different fix on the culture. Live high and socialize with the big wheels, the movers and shakers. Meet the beauty queens and have lunch with the boys in the sauna and hear about how Chiang Mai is really run.

Take a trip to the South and do Pattaya and walking street and see how the sex tourists live.

And a thousand other things.

You tell me. Is his opinion valid? Is living in Thailand a life changing experience? Am I the same man now as I was before I moved to Thailand?

The incredibly beautiful young blind woman who asks you to teach her English.

The lady with the withered arm who asks you if she is beautiful.

The one legged woman who asks you to take her dancing.

No Dorothy, this is not Kansas.

When I was a child I read books about war. I played cowboys and Indians and GI Joe.

Then I went to war. Now I see through a glass darkly and there is no more black and white there only shades of gray.

A simple yes or no would have sufficed. But anyway..... are you trying to say that you therefore know more or better than other people who have spent less or more time in thailand or had different experiences than you?

[robitusson]

Is Thai Visa really just a clique of people who share the same values?

If one disagrees are they ostracized without rhyme or reason, just name calling? Oh he is a

troll.

What am I supposed to fold up and go home?

Does this stuff really work on most people who don’t hold views similar to yours?

Are only politically correct people allowed to post?

Yes.

Yes.

Up to you.

Probably.

Yes, except in the case of threads about Gary Glitter, people in prison and people who take drugs, in these cases, let the intolerance and narrow-mindedness flow free. Rampant misandry is also fine.

Thank you for clarifying that.

BTW in my point of view robitusson belongs to the clique that it doesn´t matter how hard i try to understand their view...is imposible for me. On top of that every time i try to maintain an argument about some topics with members of such clique i just get vague answers...so really robitusson your extra coments are exactly that extra...new people don´t need them really!

Yes or no answers, vague?

[mark45y]

A simple yes or no would have sufficed. But anyway..... are you trying to say that you therefore know more or better than other people who have spent less or more time in thailand or had different experiences than you?

I think you could live in Thailand for 10 years and only hang out at ex pat places and know little about Thailand.

I think if you don’t speak Thai you know little about Thailand.

I think if you have spent a few vacations here and don’t speak Thai you know little about Thailand.

I attend college here part time to improve my Thai language abilities. There are 8 other people in my class. An female Australian journalist, a Female Canadian graduate student, Two French male Grad students a drunk male Australian tattoo artist, a Japanese business man and an American missionary couple. The class is 2 hours a day 5 days a week. You get to know people pretty well after a couple of months. The instructor is an older Thai lady with a Masters. She teaches both in Thailand and at a University in America. We go out occasionally for a drink after class. The American missionary couple have been living in Thailand off and on for 10 years and know quite a bit about the country but have large gaps in knowledge due to their religion. The Japanese guy is having a real problem with the language and is very shy preventing him from learning much. The Australian journalist is a know it all and that stops her from any in depth knowledge. She is also a bigot. The two French guys are engineers and as bright as they both are have a problem relating to non engineering subjects. But they have a wealth of information about Thai factories, electric production facilities and architecture. Surprisingly the drunk Aussie Tattoo artist is one of the best versed Thai Buddhists I have ever encountered. He is a binge drinker and enters the monastery a couple of times a year to dry out and study Thai art for his business. The Western women in the class must wear blinders because they don’t have a clue about the motivation of the average ex pat living in Thailand. They look at me like I am some kind of perverted dinosaur.

It is truly an odd feeling to be thought of as a perverted dinosaur.

Different people know different things about Thailand and in varying degrees. Everyone has special interests that they learn about. The only constant I have been able to come up with is that most Western woman know almost nothing about Western men living here except some outmoded stereotypes relating to sex tourists.

I assume the woman posting on TV have a better handle on the actual lifestyle and motivations of Farang men living in Thailand but my female friends living outside of the country are completely in the dark. The most common misconception is Thai women are submissive. The second is that they are sex machines. Thai ladies are actually quite conservative sexually and anything but submissive.

[Boo]

Why do you think that western women should want to know what motivates ex pat men in thailand though? What makes you think you are so fascinating that they have time to think about you at all?

What motivates you is your business same as how they live their life & what motivates them is theirs.

If you read the posts on here it is always the men who raise that dated steroetype about thai women being submissive, not the women. Same as it is ALWAYS men who raise issues about western women. If you are so unconcerned about them or have such a low opinion then why the obsession & the constant veiled insults. You seem unable to post without trying to demeen western women & put them down.

You think that spending some time in thailand makes you an expert on women?? It makes you knowledgable on the women you have encountered, not ALL of them. Your examples of 3 women in your class is just that, 3 women. Do those few women represent all women? In my opinion, as a women, no they don't but from reading your post, in your mind, it does. How very ignorant.

What ever your reasons for coming to LOS (& trust me when I say I don't care what they are) they are YOUR reasons. So be happy, you have found somewhere that suits you but please keep your issues & bigotry to yourself.

[mark45y]

Why do you think that western women should want to know what motivates ex pat men in thailand though? What makes you think you are so fascinating that they have time to think about you at all?

What motivates you is your business same as how they live their life & what motivates them is theirs.

If you read the posts on here it is always the men who raise that dated steroetype about thai women being submissive, not the women. Same as it is ALWAYS men who raise issues about western women. If you are so unconcerned about them or have such a low opinion then why the obsession & the constant veiled insults. You seem unable to post without trying to demeen western women & put them down.

You think that spending some time in thailand makes you an expert on women?? It makes you knowledgable on the women you have encountered, not ALL of them. Your examples of 3 women in your class is just that, 3 women. Do those few women represent all women? In my opinion, as a women, no they don't but from reading your post, in your mind, it does. How very ignorant.

What ever your reasons for coming to LOS (& trust me when I say I don't care what they are) they are YOUR reasons. So be happy, you have found somewhere that suits you but please keep your issues & bigotry to yourself.

I think western women want to know what motivates ex pat men because you read and respond in a thread like this. If you didn’t want to know why would you read the thread?

Second, there are my female western friends that I was talking about, they are amazed that I would move to Thailand.

Third, Thailand is an ideal place for people to retire both men and women because of the cost of living and the cost of medical care. It would behoove Western women to find out the real reasons why ex pat men come here and rid themselves of the sex tourist stereotype that seems to encumber much of their thinking.

I said that the women I know in the West continually bring up the submissive thing not the women on TV.

I don’t think anything in my last post was insulting or demeaning to women. I said Western women don’t have an idea of why men move to Thailand. That is hardly insulting or demeaning.

I didn’t say Western women were fat.

I didn’t say they were over medicated.

I didn’t say they were spoiled.

I didn’t say they were ethnocentric.

I didn’t say they had hairy legs and smelled bad.

I didn’t say they were heartless and cold.

I didn’t say they had very low powers of reading comprehension.

I didn’t say they were unfeminine.

I didn’t say they were combative and overly critical.

If I had said any of those things you could say that I was being insulting and demeaning Western women. But I did not say any of those things.

I would suggest if you want to be thought of as a lady that you moderate your language a little. Calling someone ignorant demonstrates a lack of social skills.

Better to say, uniformed or some such word which is not as inflammatory as ignorant.

As far as keeping my issues to my self, you are more than welcome not to read my posts. Although I am pleased that you do read them and respond to them. I know that by doing so you demonstrate that you are interested in what I have to say.

[Boo]

Many people who have never been to thailand make stupid comments or are unable to comprehend why anyone would go there. A lot of men here in the UK ask me how much they can buy a women for! It makes then uneducated on thailand, nothing to do with being men or women. I know the difference.

I don’t think anything in my last post was insulting or demeaning to women. I said Western women don’t have an idea of why men move to Thailand. That is hardly insulting or demeaning.

I said your posts (meaning generally) not that last one. please read my posts properly.

I would suggest if you want to be thought of as a lady that you moderate your language a little. Calling someone ignorant demonstrates a lack of social skills.

I would suggest that if you wanted to be considered a man you learnt some basic manners & that not all women are the same & can be judged by your uniformed () opinion.

I think western women want to know what motivates ex pat men because you read and respond in a thread like this. If you didn’t want to know why would you read the thread?

I am a moderator, I have to read all your posts sadly, but in this instance I am replying as a poster. And again, as a poster i am entitled to disagree or debate why you can't keep your problems about women to yourself.

As far as keeping my issues to my self, you are more than welcome not to read my posts. Although I am pleased that you do read them and respond to them. I know that by doing so you demonstrate that you are interested in what I have to say.

Again, as a moderator I have to read your posts. I am not interested in your posts but don't want them to be left unchallenged as IMO they are the postings of an uniformed person (better for you?)

As for your silly list of things you could have said about western women, that is exactly why you have a problem. Sad.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Boo

[monochaser]

Mark is obsessed no doubt. He lists above all the things he did not say about western women (I wont bother to paste again). Clearly these are the things that he believes. notice the specifics he uses. I think the hoser should be banned myself

Edited March 19, 2006 by monochaser

[Glauka]

I didn’t say Western women were fat.

I didn’t say they were over medicated.

I didn’t say they were spoiled.

I didn’t say they were ethnocentric.

I didn’t say they had hairy legs and smelled bad.

I didn’t say they were heartless and cold.

I didn’t say they had very low powers of reading comprehension.

I didn’t say they were unfeminine.

I didn’t say they were combative and overly critical.

If I had said any of those things you could say that I was being insulting and demeaning Western women. But I did not say any of those things.

NOw you have...So little respect...I don´t understand why you have to insult and be unrespectful to us all...but really just be happy...after this you haven´t got anything that could really interest me...

[Sir Burr]

I'm faithful to my missus.

[Old Croc]

I didn’t say Western women were fat.

I didn’t say they were over medicated.

I didn’t say they were spoiled.

I didn’t say they were ethnocentric.

I didn’t say they had hairy legs and smelled bad.

I didn’t say they were heartless and cold.

I didn’t say they had very low powers of reading comprehension.

I didn’t say they were unfeminine.

I didn’t say they were combative and overly critical.

If I had said any of those things you could say that I was being insulting and demeaning Western women. But I did not say any of those things.

NOw you have...So little respect...I don´t understand why you have to insult and be unrespectful to us all...but really just be happy...after this you haven´t got anything that could really interest me...

The more you girls and guys keep feeding this person the more he will come back to feast.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Old Croc

[soic]

I've shared a couple of messages with Mark. While I don't agree with his views concerning fidelity. I think he means well. In those messages he was referring to the acceptance or expectation of infidelty between Farangs and Thail ladies. We Western men have a bad reputation to overcome from the get go. I'm sure that the greater number of Farangs do have stable relationships, but it's the few that are butterflies, they get the greater attention. Those are the breeders of the negative reputation. I know that most Thai ladies to expect us to be butterflies; even my lovely wife told me that she would understand if I took another lady. I was shocked and quite honestly hurt. She said that she didn't want me to do that, she just thought that was how Farangs were. I can see how some men could confuse the expectation or acceptance as being permissible and therefore the proper thing to do. After all "When in Rome", that's the popular saying. I don't think that the Thai ladies want men to do that, or like it when men do that, or don't care if the men do that. I believe that it hurts on at least some level. For example: I don't like to ever hear when people die in a natural disaster, I accept it and expect that it will happen, but it still hurts. I still hope that we can find ways to prevent natural disasters. Acceptance of the possibility doesn't make it right.

I think that in his haste to prove his point, he lost it, or buried it by writing something that inflammed people and caused them to misunderstand his point. I may be right or wrong, but that is what I drew out of his posts after the private messages.

[mark45y]

As for your silly list of things you could have said about western women, that is exactly why you have a problem. Sad.

I am trying to walk a mile in your shoes. I read a lot of your posts. I find them interesting with an edge but I can’t get a grip on the real you.

I don’t think it would occur to you to walk a mile in my shoes but in case it does I will give you the Readers Digest condensed version.

My first Farang wife was a marriage made in heaven. Families knew each other she had a masters and spoke six languages and taught on a college level. I was informed she was having an affair with one of her students while 50 or 60 South East Asians were shooting at me. I will spare you the details. How would you have responded? I got a job making a lot of money. In 1970 if you didn’t mind danger and wanted to maximize your income there were a lot of opportunities in Asia.

My second wife was even a more perfect woman than my first. She was blond and beautiful and a paragon of virtue from the Southern United States. She ended up sleeping with my best friend and business partner of 15 years.

In case you are wondering, in both cases I had been completely faithful.

My third wife was an Italian American. Not the prettiest thing in the world not like the first two but earthy and sensual and a magnificent cook and a good head for business. She was a wonderful wife until she met Jose Cuervo. And she had a pint a day affair with Jose. I tried to hang in there but her delusions and constant threats against my life finally got the better of me and I left.

What was the balance sheet. Me, my shorts and shoes. Them, three homes and three bank accounts that would guarantee they never had to work seriously for the rest of their lives.

So how do I feel about Western women? I can’t complain from what I hear in Thailand I didn’t do to bad. My story is way below the norm and I didn’t get treated to badly.

I know you have heard all of this stuff before a hundred times. So have I.

I don’t hold any stereotypes of Western women. For me, and just for me, no one else, I have tired of being cheated on and thrown out with the trash. I am never going to get married again to a Western woman or Thai woman. I am never going to put another asset in a woman’s name or hold any assets jointly. It is over for me. I have tried enough. I don’t blame the ladies. I am sure I was at fault too.

So I join the foreign legion of men who come to Thailand looking for some peace of mind and a non confrontational lifestyle.

[mark45y]

Mark is obsessed no doubt. He lists above all the things he did not say about western women (I wont bother to paste again). Clearly these are the things that he believes. notice the specifics he uses. I think the hoser should be banned myself

I am not particularly feint of heart. If I would have held those beliefs I would have said that. The fear of getting banned from Thai Visa is not really up there on my list of things I am afraid of. I had a couple of Thai language teachers at the house when I was writing that post and asked them what they found offensive about Farang women and that is the list they gave me. I really like hairy legs, I think it is sexy, one of the reasons I have always liked French women is a lot of them don’t shave. I try to say what I mean and am not always successful. I gave some examples of being insulting and said I did not say those things. Well, Thai is what I meant. I did not say those things and I was not being insulting. To try and read something into my posts that is not there and that I specifically said was not there is a stretch to me.

[Glauka]

I am not particularly feint of heart. If I would have held those beliefs I would have said that. The fear of getting banned from Thai Visa is not really up there on my list of things I am afraid of. I had a couple of Thai language teachers at the house when I was writing that post and asked them what they found offensive about Farang women and that is the list they gave me. I really like hairy legs, I think it is sexy, one of the reasons I have always liked French women is a lot of them don’t shave. I try to say what I mean and am not always successful. I gave some examples of being insulting and said I did not say those things. Well, Thai is what I meant. I did not say those things and I was not being insulting. To try and read something into my posts that is not there and that I specifically said was not there is a stretch to me.

Well if that´s so I apologize for my last post I must add that not all women are the same...but i respect your choice of not wanting to get involve with any other woman anymore...

glauka

[Boo]

Mark, we have all been burnt in one way or another, myself by thai & farang men but I know the difference between the good ones & the bad ones & not to judge or slag off the rest.

I could give you numerous examples of why my thai husband is better than any farang man I know but I can't be that petty or spiteful as I count too many good & decent men as friends & family. My husband knows why he is the best I don't need to rub the others nose in it

I said before, your life is your business, be happy but don't be judgemental to the rest of the female world becuase of your own bad experiences.

[udon]

A woman who's only there to cook you dinner and lies on her back to satisfy your needs doesn't sound to me as a challenge.

ALL women are a challenge.

Bye bye Scampy!

[Donz]

I love all woman.

[Doza]

I had a couple of Thai language teachers at the house when I was writing that post and asked them what they found offensive about Farang women and that is the list they gave me. I really like hairy legs

That's pretty funny considering how many Thai women have hairy legs. I've never seen so many women who don't shave that semi black, obvious, and disgusting (in my opinion) hair around the lower leg as I have in Thailand. One of my pet hates about alot of Thai girls.

You almost never see this in Australia / UK.

[robitusson]

Thai view: Men and women are different.

Western view: Men and women are the same.

[Donz]

I had a couple of Thai language teachers at the house when I was writing that post and asked them what they found offensive about Farang women and that is the list they gave me. I really like hairy legs

That's pretty funny considering how many Thai women have hairy legs. I've never seen so many women who don't shave that semi black, obvious, and disgusting (in my opinion) hair around the lower leg as I have in Thailand. One of my pet hates about alot of Thai girls.

You almost never see this in Australia / UK.

You do in winter, dont know about the UK but ive been with a few in Oz.

Plus some girls dont shave the upper thighs as nowone can really see it.

[Doza]

I had a couple of Thai language teachers at the house when I was writing that post and asked them what they found offensive about Farang women and that is the list they gave me. I really like hairy legs

That's pretty funny considering how many Thai women have hairy legs. I've never seen so many women who don't shave that semi black, obvious, and disgusting (in my opinion) hair around the lower leg as I have in Thailand. One of my pet hates about alot of Thai girls.

You almost never see this in Australia / UK.

You do in winter, dont know about the UK but ive been with a few in Oz.

Plus some girls dont shave the upper thighs as nowone can really see it.

Maybe it's the women you are hanging around as I've never seen nor experienced it???

I don't have an issue with the upper thigh hair if it's light and blond - which it always has been in my experience.

[soic]

I guess my Thai wife and I are blessed. She can only grow hair on her head and well.... um privates. No hair on her arms or legs. I teased my friend's American wife.... "feel that soft skin? 40 years old and never shaved once!" She called me a nasty name! I thought it was funny!