Are Farangs Playing A Major Part In The Dog Problems Of Pattaya? (And Elsewhere)

[tropo]

I think you need to make up your mind whether it's poverty or wealth that is creating an appetite for dogs.....and look at the numbers involved in eating them to extinction.

It's irrelevant. There are enough Filipinos eating dogs to ensure there's never going to be a free breeding population of feral dogs. I have no idea how they developed their appetite for dog meat. I suspect it was out of necessity and they developed a taste for it. No matter what the food, if you grow up eating it you'll have a taste for it.

I'll refer back to my brother in law. Unless we send some extra money for his birthday he'll buy a dog to eat and share with his friends. Pork is his first choice, but dog goes a lot further for his money - and he likes it too.

[tropo]

In Pattaya, when construction workers set up camp, stray dogs in the area disappear. I hope they have a quick painless end.

Interesting theory. In my area 2 big construction sites have just started in the last 2 months. The soi dogs are still around. They actually do better because the construction workers feed them.

BTW, they aren't stray dogs, they're soi dogs.

now you're splitting hairs

Here's a working definition for you.

Types of stray dog:

• 
  a) free-roaming owned dog not under direct control or restriction at a particular time;
  
  
• 
  b free-roaming dog with no owner;
  
  
• 
  c) feral dog: domestic dog that has reverted to the wild state and is no longer directly dependent upon humans for successful reproduction.
  

Categories "a" and "b" would fit most of the dogs on the streets in Thailand.

"Soi Dog" is a term used by Farags in Thailand.

Most of the points I'm making apply world wide outside Thailand and apply to all doing populations.

I hardly think that a petty-fogging quibble over what we call these animals is either pertinent or constructive

More semantics - the point about food is really not really a "theory" as in the day to day usage it is an established scientific theory and there has a certainty up in the high 90s and run effect could be regarded as fact for the purposes of this discussion.

You're splitting the hairs - in a big way.

The difference is very obvious and doesn't require you to look it up in a dictionary. That definition is nonsense anyway.

Obviously a "stray dog" is a pet that has become lost or abandoned by its owners.

A "soi dog" is a dog which was born in a vacant lot or a park and has never been a pet or had an owner. All the dogs in the sois around my place (and there is a huge number) were born in vacant lots or the park nearby. There are many places for them to breed and they are by no definition "strays".

[cockerdoodledo]

No dog is "free roaming" they are all territorial. The bond between Thai, particular motor bike taxi drivers and soi dogs is incredibly strong,no finer way for a farang to integrate into a local Thai society is to take care of a local soi dog that displays illness,or get it spayed.

The biggest killer,apart from traffic is distemper,the virus is quickly killed off in hot sunshine,but damp cool conditions the disease will flourish

If there are any free roaming dogs they will be dogs that have been purposely dumped,the dog attempting to blend in again to a pack,again incredible pecking order too in these packs

[tropo]

No dog is "free roaming" they are all territorial. The bond between Thai, particular motor bike taxi drivers and soi dogs is incredibly strong,

I agree. The Thais love them. Just down the road a see a Thai lady out everyday feeding her local soi dogs - she loves them. There's about 5 dogs who live on the steps outside the local 7Eleven. It's their territory. You often have to step over them to get into the store. Obviously the 7Eleven store owner loves them otherwise they wouldn't be there.

[kanderson]

I love soi dogs. If you can speak Thai to them - all the better.

[LucidLucifer]

Actually in the Philippines this is indeed the reason one rarely sees stray dogs.

I cant imagine why they don't eat them all here. I certainly would, if I earned just 250B/day.

Even if I earned 50B/day I'd rather go veggie than to eat a dog, especially a mangy soi mutt.

[tropo]

Even if I earned 50B/day I'd rather go veggie than to eat a dog, especially a mangy soi mutt.

Cook it well - add some vinegar and soy sauce (ala dog adobo) and you never know - you may enjoy it. You could even eat rat and enjoy it if you didn't know it.

[Darrel]

I have certainly eaten dog adobo and bat adobo (bony) in the RP. Dont think I ever had rat or cat but as you say I probably would have been unaware of it.

[Exsexyman]

In Pattaya, when construction workers set up camp, stray dogs in the area disappear. I hope they have a quick painless end.

Interesting theory. In my area 2 big construction sites have just started in the last 2 months. The soi dogs are still around. They actually do better because the construction workers feed them.

BTW, they aren't stray dogs, they're soi dogs.

The construction workers are probably just fattening them up for a special occasion! Remember the old Korean slogan. "A dog is for Christmas, not for life"!

[tropo]

That could be true. Perhaps Cambodians and Burmese are more into dog meat - I don't know?

[tropo]

I have certainly eaten dog adobo and bat adobo (bony) in the RP. Dont think I ever had rat or cat but as you say I probably would have been unaware of it.

You're more adventurous than I. They don't waste anything over there. If my brother in law runs out of protein he shoots birds. It was funny when my wife first visited NZ and saw all the nice plump seagulls. She was thinking about what nice meals they would make.

It can be difficult to avoid "double dead" meat over there too. If a farm animal dies due to some infection it's a guarantee the meat will still be sold, at full price even.

[NanLaew]

You will find it incredibly difficult to find any veterinarian in Thailand who will put down an animal, regardless of how bad it's condition is. They just won't do it, I believe for religious reasons.

This is a fallacy - there are plenty of vets - they don't like to publicise because of the buddhist resistance to this.

may I suggest therefore that hose wishing to rescue animals first find a vet willing to euthanise.

You just substantiated Phil's 'fallacy'. Whether the vet won't do if 'for religious reasons' or whether the vet is reluctant to publicise their willingness to euthanize because of 'buddhist resistance' is the same thing.

First thing to note; the karma principle prevails here. That mangy, one-eyed dog is probably someone who did bad things in their previous life so why on earth would you want to ease their suffering?

Pity the OP spent all that time venting but hope he's feeling better and understands. Now, go outside and feed a cur. It may not be the right thing to do but it certainly is the Thai thing to do.

[silentnine]

hot dog

chilli dog

corn dog

fried dog

grilled dog

BBQ dog

sushi dog

so many ways to cook them as long as the are culled correctly

one thing that always puzzles me .. back in the UK where there are not many stray dogs, and where pooper scoopers are a requirement for dog walking you can gaurentee if you walk on a stretch of grass outside your own home you will tread in some dog poop..

here in Thailand where the dogs are everywhere there is rarely any evidence of this ...

[cockerdoodledo]

hot dog

chilli dog

corn dog

fried dog

grilled dog

BBQ dog

sushi dog

so many ways to cook them as long as the are culled correctly

one thing that always puzzles me .. back in the UK where there are not many stray dogs, and where pooper scoopers are a requirement for dog walking you can gaurentee if you walk on a stretch of grass outside your own home you will tread in some dog poop..

here in Thailand where the dogs are everywhere there is rarely any evidence of this ...

Because of heat,breaks down quicker,and dogs here do not shit on their own doorstep

[bartender100]

I just wish they would shut up, but its part of life in Thailand, so if you live here you have to except it I guess. There are about 10 outside my condo building scrapping all the time.

I am getting a good shot with a hard lime at 5am

[ddpffft]

i have been to thailand before and but i dont remember THAT aggressive dogs...

and if i got into some sort of trouble with dogs at home or other countries, i try to recall situations, but it was always eye-to-eye... here, i find so particularly strange, that they always come/attack from behind...

you are passing by and then they run after you, either next to you and barking up to your face or directly behind and come closer and closer to the legs...

isnt this strange? i think it is, as i have never experienced this before...

or is this normal?

[cockerdoodledo]

i have been to thailand before and but i dont remember THAT aggressive dogs...

and if i got into some sort of trouble with dogs at home or other countries, i try to recall situations, but it was always eye-to-eye... here, i find so particularly strange, that they always come/attack from behind...

you are passing by and then they run after you, either next to you and barking up to your face or directly behind and come closer and closer to the legs...

isnt this strange? i think it is, as i have never experienced this before...

or is this normal?

Strange or not,stand your ground,show firmness and they clear off, any amount of them,anyone afraid,or runs is fair game. Never ever have I ever encountered a dog that purposely launches an attack, something happened to spook the dog Sure pretend to pick up a stone or carry a stick and they run a mile

Dogs here have a more alert suspicion of humans I guess,closer and closer sniffing,just trying to work out the strange (farang) smell

[topt]

I am very curious what has made the OP suddenly write such a long post about this - or did NanLaew get it right..... and if so what caused the vent?

[puuchai299]

( Ads in papers and forums ask for homes for “cute little puppies” - which within months will turn into sex-starved, bin raiding, barking units of filth born to harass the neighbours and chase passing tradesmen and motorcycles.....or simply spawn another generation of the same.)

One would of thought the whole point of giving them a good kind loving secure home would at least be one way to keep them off the streets.

[cowslip]

( Ads in papers and forums ask for homes for “cute little puppies” - which within months will turn into sex-starved, bin raiding, barking units of filth born to harass the neighbours and chase passing tradesmen and motorcycles.....or simply spawn another generation of the same.)

One would of thought the whole point of giving them a good kind loving secure home would at least be one way to keep them off the streets.

You would wouldn't you? But of course that is not the reality.

[gdk]

lets move to Vietnam almost no dogs to see on the streets

[Felt 35]

Absolutely agree with the OP, add lack of education and responsibility.

[puuchai299]

The dog population and its suffering in Thailand is quite appalling....and so many farang “doggy-lovers” seem unaware of how their efforts to be “nice” to these unfortunates is actually contributing and exacerbating the situation.

The animals spread diseases that are communicable to humans. (Hookworm, Lyme Disease, Toxocariasis (worms))

They defecate and pollute public spaces - turning them into a health risk - especially for our children.

Many people don’t realise that the behaviour of dogs instinctively changes when they are in packs - they can become far more aggressive (the sum total of the strength of the pack). They harass farm animals from chickens up to buffaloes, they are also a danger to wild animals and birds, in towns and villages as well as the parks and forests of Thailand where they are a massive threat to indigenous and endangered wildlife.

Dogs raid bins and distribute garbage far and wide, further increasing the risks to public health.

They even on occasion pose a direct personal threat to our safety in the form of attacks and with the spread of rabies.

Most developed countries and indeed many countries considered less developed than Thailand do not suffer from this problem.

(The glib answer that dogs are eaten in these places is IMO both facile and inaccurate).

The problem cannot be solved overnight but if people behave rationally towards these and other animals then the problem will dwindle. Many countries have sorted their dog problem in less than a decade.

What can we (foreigners) do to help?

Well, we need to act responsibly when it comes to our dealings or relationships with the animals around us.

Firstly simply “loving” dogs and “looking after” them isn’t good enough. “Rescuing” feral or semi feral dogs is just a fallacy.

The dogs we see on the streets fall into roughly 3 categories: - Pets, Community, and “Feral” dogs.

The first are owned and looked after by a private household. ... they can be anything from an over fed lap dog to and semi trained guard dog.

Second are often mistaken for “wild” dogs, but they are usually accepted and adopted by a street and are considered to be part of the landscape - their barking at strangers - bin pickers etc. - is seen as a security bonus.

The last are the packs of feral or semi feral dogs that fend for themselves all over Thailand. They live and breed with little or no contact with humans apart from the odd discarded bag of left overs or a clout with a stick or a stone.

Allowing , or worse still, encouraging these dogs to breed is the crux of the problem.

Rescuing these dogs - which are sometimes in great pain or in a disgustingly prolapsed state may seem to be the right thing at the time but the consequences are even worse. If left unsterilised these dogs live on, they may breed and that simply is unacceptable. That’s several more litters to add to the population and several more heart-wrenching examples of dogs dragging themselves around in agony just waiting to die.

ALL dogs - male or female should be sterilised - this includes your PETS. It’s no good turning a blind eye in the case of “Fluffles” as Fluffles is just as likely as the next dog to either be impregnated by or inseminate a Soi dog, so increasing the numbers of unwanted animals on the streets.

...and lets be real it’s NOT 100% possible to guarantee your personal dog’s celibacy for it’s lifetime.

Most pet owners seem to me to be either unprepared or simply unfit to own a dog anyway. There’s no doubting their affection for the animal as there is no doubting the depth of their ignorance when it comes to the dog’s welfare, their own and the environment’s..... Over-fed and under-trained they are yet another unhygienic sometimes dangerous, threat to the community.

Ads in papers and forums ask for homes for “cute little puppies” - which within months will turn into sex-starved, bin raiding, barking units of filth born to harass the neighbours and chase passing tradesmen and motorcycles.....or simply spawn another generation of the same.

The amount of dogs in an area is directly proportional to the amount of food available to them. This comes in various forms - garbage that is easily accessible, wasted uneaten pet food and probably the most asinine of all; food deliberately left for them by those who think they are easing the suffering of these unfortunates.

In areas (or times) with little or no food the animals will not breed and in the end they will leave in search of greener pastures, over a few years the dog population will dwindle to manageable levels.

This will only happen if the situation isn’t destabilised by well-intended but ill-informed humans. Feeding rescuing, allowing your pets to mingle with other dogs unsupervised, and above all letting any animal - pet or Soi dog - out without being sterilised. Sick animals need to be put down - they will still mate and spread disease if allowed out again. Pets should be sterilised too..... in reality very few owners could guarantee that their “pooch” won’t end up breeding with strays and bolstering the street population.

So next time you get the urge to “safe” or “rescue" a dog, think what your actions are contributing to ...then act.......

If a dog is in pain and seriously ill - decide if you are willing to look after it for the next 10 years or so. If not the only kind thing to do is have it humanly put down rather than a long lingering death on the streets. If you do decide to keep it at least make sure it is sterilised. Then you can try and train it?....good luck with that.

God has spoken....

[ddpffft]

what does it help anyone, whether the dog with rabies was sterilized or not?

[tropo]

lets move to Vietnam almost no dogs to see on the streets

Do they eat dogs there?

[MrRealDeal]

The answer to the question is NO most Farang do not feed the dogs they feed the hookers , most tourists don't adopts pets , most expats take care of whatever dog they adopt , the problem comes from Thai people who are against rounding them up and putting them in shelters or killing them. Why on earth would you blame the dog problem on Farangs ?

[ddpffft]

and on another note about sterilizing dogs...

its often done, to make them less aggressive...

i believe, if you tell that to the thai owners, or the people with that group of dogs which stays outside/next to restaurants etc... they probably dont want their dogs sterilized...

[cockerdoodledo]

and on another note about sterilizing dogs...

its often done, to make them less aggressive...

i believe, if you tell that to the thai owners, or the people with that group of dogs which stays outside/next to restaurants etc... they probably dont want their dogs sterilized...

They do,but want you to pay

[topt]

and on another note about sterilizing dogs...

its often done, to make them less aggressive...

i believe, if you tell that to the thai owners, or the people with that group of dogs which stays outside/next to restaurants etc... they probably dont want their dogs sterilized...

This can be a bit of a fallacy unfortunately. Our neighbour has a pair of Ban Keaws (sorry if spelling is wrong) and having the male "done" did not change its attitude one iota - it is one very aggressive protector of its property as a smaller dog found out to its everlasting loss.

[Suradit69]

Regarding Soi dogs. They don't need rescuing. The are fed by local Thais. Basically most of them are considered as pets.

This is their country. They like them. Deal with it as nothing is going to change.

may I draw your attention to this thread

http://www.thaivisa....o-get-out-more/

Of all the debating tools used on this - and other Thai related - forums, the lamest must be the tired old hack:

"We are guests here so if you don't like it, leave".

That's a perfectly valid response to those people who complain endlessly about a laundry list of inconveniences they've noted, with an implied or overt tag line about how much better things are done back where they came from. Whether or not the problem they whine about is legitimate, it's the contempt and arrogance that often goes with the whine that generates the " if you don't like it, go home" response.

I've lived long-term in 5 different countries and in each of the four that were not my country of birth there has been an insular contingent of foreigners, most notably but not exclusively Brits and Americans, who seemed to have little to talk about aside from what was wrong with the locals. Simply by virtue of their fair complexions and their "advanced western" view of all they surveyed, they felt qualified to analyze, judge and propose solutions without regard to local history or current reality.

There were some who had a genuine concern for real problems and who were prepared to make the effort to organize with local people to make changes, but if they eventually experienced some success, it was those who didn't begin by writing letters to the editor or otherwise publicizing how shoddy things were at present and how they alone had all the answers.

There are people, Thai and foreign, in Thailand who work, primarily as volunteers, to deal with the dog & cat problem. They are woefully underfunded and do not have the resources to solve this enormous issue. Whether or not you agree with their philosophy, they are acting to solve the problem and have a great deal of experience dealing with all the hurdles that have to be confronted. They do seek volunteers and, of course, funds.

Possibly anyone who has the time or money or maybe even some new ideas, ought to try working with the existing organizations and individuals who are on the front line. I doubt very much that anyone ever tells any of them, "If you don't like it, go home."

As the sayings have it,