14 Confirmed Dead After Shooting At Batman Movie Premiere In Denver: Police

[cdnvic]

Ok, the next person who brings middle eastern terrorism into this, or replies to any bait about it, gets a week suspension. Most of you have been around long enough to know better by now so don't expect anymore slack.

[ttelise]

Didn't Joker get taken alive. I don't know the movie very well.

Aha. (If true, I don't either.)

Face of a madman:

He apparently had died his fair red also. Looks like Warner Brothers is delaying opening in Paris and AMC Theatres here may suspend showing if Dark Knight. Silly if you ask me. Dude would have gone postal regardless sooner or later. I doubt any mire whackos out there thinking they are The Joker.

[ttelise]

He was basically in full body armor. Balituc helmet, mask, throat protector, vest, arm and leg protectors.

So he didn't want to/expect to die? Weird.

I figured it was related to quitting medical school. Probably thought his life was over as a failure. Imagine this guy wanted to be a doctor!

They said his grades were like top #1 in class and ge was in full merit scholarship in both undergrad and medical school.

The spooky thing is that his mother said yeah that's him immediately upon hearing about incident.

[submaniac]

The shooter was NOT, I repeat NOT enrolled in the medical school to become a doctor. He was pursuing a Ph.D. in Nueroscience and was in the process of withdrawing.

http://www.lex18.com/news/shooting-suspect-was-graduate-student-at-colorado-medical-school

[Jayman]

The shooter was NOT, I repeat NOT enrolled in the medical school to become a doctor. He was pursuing a Ph.D. in Nueroscience and was in the process of withdrawing.

http://www.lex18.com...-medical-school

Having a PhD allows you to be called a doctor. What you want to say is he was not in medical school to become a medical doctor.

[ttelise]

The shooter was NOT, I repeat NOT enrolled in the medical school to become a doctor. He was pursuing a Ph.D. in Nueroscience and was in the process of withdrawing.

http://www.lex18.com/news/shooting-suspect-was-graduate-student-at-colorado-medical-school

Definitely not worth the dreaded double capital NOTs.

Nevertheless, the PhD in Neuroscience is conferred by the University of Colorado Medical School. Also, I saw a spokesman from the medical school state on National TV that the shooter had dropped out a month ago so maybe your source not so good. Looked like the plan was set in motion back then . . .

Edited July 20, 2012 by ttelise

[Jingthing]

Yes, it sounds like he was studying to enter a medical research field rather than a patient practice field. In any case, he is very cerebral even though his more recent academic endeavors weren't working out.

So what is the psychological makeup of mass shooters?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/james-eagan-holmes-held-in-colorado-shooting/2012/07/20/gJQA213UyW_story.html

Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist who, as chairman of the Forensic Panel of New York City, has studied and testified about mass shootings, said these cases invariably feature a person who is highly paranoid, resents the broader community and decides to kill out of a desire to achieve notoriety.

“Some are so paranoid that they’re psychotic. Others are paranoid in a generally resentful way but have no significant psychiatric illness. But you have to hate everyone in order to kill anyone,” Welner said.

“The threshold that the mass shooter crosses is one in which he decides that his righteous indignation and entitlement to destroy is more important than the life of any random person that he might kill.”

[ttelise]

Yes, it sounds like he was studying to enter a medical research field rather than a patient practice field. In any case, he is very cerebral even though his more recent academic endeavors weren't working out.

So what is the psychological makeup of mass shooters?

http://www.washingto...3UyW_story.html

Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist who, as chairman of the Forensic Panel of New York City, has studied and testified about mass shootings, said these cases invariably feature a person who is highly paranoid, resents the broader community and decides to kill out of a desire to achieve notoriety.

"Some are so paranoid that they're psychotic. Others are paranoid in a generally resentful way but have no significant psychiatric illness. But you have to hate everyone in order to kill anyone," Welner said.

"The threshold that the mass shooter crosses is one in which he decides that his righteous indignation and entitlement to destroy is more important than the life of any random person that he might kill."

They are definitely not giving the impression on the 24/7 news coverage of this event that he was failing out of school. The indications have been he was doing very, very well academically and apparently dropped out because he knew he was going on a murderous rampage I guess when this movie premiered.

He definitely had this planned out and his mom definitely made an eerie connection between the movie, the shooting and her son. Maybe he became obcessed with Dark Knight and The Joker.

**Nonsense "signature" removed**

Edited July 21, 2012 by metisdead

[Jingthing]

Not sure what you're on about. He did extremely well at Cal Riverside. In his more recent studies in Colorado, he was ... bombing.

But the 24-year-old performed poorly on his comprehensive tests this spring. He was in serious academic trouble, according to a faculty member who spoke on condition of anonymity. His solution was to quit. The school said Friday that Holmes was in the process of withdrawing from the program.

http://www.washingto...3UyW_story.html

Of course any cause effect of the academic issues on the rampage, whether they existed or not is something that will likely come up in his upcoming trial where the defense is sure to be based on INSANITY. I think he has a great case.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[ttelise]

Not sure what you're on about. He did extremely well at Cal Riverside. In his more recent studies in Colorado, he was ... bombing.

But the 24-year-old performed poorly on his comprehensive tests this spring. He was in serious academic trouble, according to a faculty member who spoke on condition of anonymity. His solution was to quit. The school said Friday that Holmes was in the process of withdrawing from the program.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/james-eagan-holmes-held-in-colorado-shooting/2012/07/20/gJQA213UyW_story.html

That's cool. May be correct. Most are saying improper to discuss his performance as it violates FERPA. I just heard comments on TV by Mayor, Governor, DA, FBI and etc that said he was honor student at top if his class. Spokesman for University also made that implication on TV.

The Chief of Police said people were impersonating him calling various Press and TV stations so this anonymous person saying he was failing may be fake also and definitely just violated FERPA.

The article you cite, the alleged faculty member states in process of withdrawal, but Dan Meyer, the University spokesperson, said he voluntarily withdrew a month ago.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/20/1112071/-Aurora-shooter-a-med-school-drop-out

Info is pretty sketchy at moment and will be inconsistent. I just doubt a faculty member called Washington Post and stated that as that faculty member will be terminated. I am not sure you can protect source who violated FERPA.

Edited July 20, 2012 by ttelise

[ttelise]

Hair dyed red and he told cops behind the theatre "I am the Joker" when they approached him.

[Jingthing]

BTW, the USA has suffered a number of these mass shootings over the years. In the wake of such events, foreigners not familiar with American culture may ask, why doesn't the USA tighten up its absurdly liberal gun laws? Americans understood why. It is a sacred cow. We can't even really even talk about it.

DYSFUNCTIONAL

http://www.washingto...gPyW_story.html

Unless the tragedy involves guns. Then our whole public reasoning process goes haywire. Anyone who dares to say that an event such as the massacre at a Colorado movie theaterearly Friday demands that we rethink our approach to the regulation of firearms is accused of “exploiting” the deaths of innocent people.

This is part of the gun lobby’s rote response, and the rest of us allow it to work every time. Its goal is to block any conversation about how our nation’s gun laws, the most permissive in the industrialized world, increase the likelihood of mass killings of this sort.

http://www.washingto...gPyW_story.html

Edited July 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[Yunla]

One of the people killed was a survivor of the recent Toronto mall shooting;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18935385

RIP and I pray for a speedy recovery for all the injured. Another senseless violent tragedy.

[Ulysses G.]

He was basically in full body armor. Balituc helmet, mask, throat protector, vest, arm and leg protectors.

So he didn't want to/expect to die? Weird.

My guess is that he wanted to stay alive as long as possible to have more time kill more innocent people. However, the fact that he submitted so easily to the police afterwards does make one wonder.

[coma]

Hah. New it all along. Who else would it be ?

The man arrested over the massacre of 12 people including a baby at a Colorado cinema during the premiere of the new Batman movie told authorities he "was the Joker".

Prosecution. Ready yourselves for an insanity plea.

[ttelise]

He was basically in full body armor. Balituc helmet, mask, throat protector, vest, arm and leg protectors.

So he didn't want to/expect to die? Weird.

My guess is that he wanted to stay alive as long as possible to have more time kill more innocent people. However, the fact that he submitted so easily to the police afterwards does make one wonder.

Does not even sound as if he attempted to flee. I think he put guns in car and was just hanging out by car when cops arrived. Yep, coma, that's apparently the extent io what he said when the cops approached. "I am the Joker."

Edited July 21, 2012 by ttelise

[coma]

" Terrorism is in the eyes of the terrorised ".

Of course the victims were terrorized. But if it turns out as it seems pretty clear at this point that there was no political agenda, then it doesn't fit under any widely accepted definition of terrorism. People who do public mass murders do them for different reasons. As this guy is alive, we will likely learn a lot more about him.

Not sure how you can deduce this, crystal ball?

They've got the shooter. He's talking. If had a political motive, why do you reckon he hasn't MENTIONED it (or even said something about it when he was killing people)?

More crystal balling. How do you know what he has and has not said at this stage ? Do you have a live feed coming from the investigation room ?

I am sure the answers to alot of our questions will come out. Just not 12 hours or so after the incident occured.

[coma]

On the liberal gun laws thing. What would have been the odds that someone else other than the shooter was packing a firearm in the cinema at the time this shooting was going on ? I know it would be a big asked to expect someone to intervene with a short arm when a lunatic is off with an assalt rifle but isn't that what the liberal laws are for ? Protection.

Shooting massacres happen all over the world. A lot of them in countries with very strict firearms laws. And in the wake of such attacks the question is often ask ,if the laws weren't so strict, and one of the victims or persons in or near the attack, was allowed to and was carrying a licenced firearm, would that person have been able to use force to stop, slow down such an assault and therefore save lives ?

[nottocus]

I just don't get it. Why is anyone shocked at this?

Make guns easily available ...... some nut will shoot lots of people.

Until the stupid American gun laws change, it's just a matter of waiting for the next one.

[nottocus]

Shooting massacres happen all over the world. A lot of them in countries with very strict firearms laws.

They have happened in other countries. They just seem to happen in America so bloody often.

[Shot]

I just don't get it. Why is anyone shocked at this?

Make guns easily available ...... some nut will shoot lots of people.

Until the stupid American gun laws change, it's just a matter of waiting for the next one.

What changes would you make?

[nottocus]

Nothing. I ain't a politician.

Edited July 21, 2012 by nottocus

[Scott]

Here's the topic title:

14 Confirmed Dead After Shooting At Batman Movie Premiere In Denver

Off-topic posts are being removed. Please stick to the topic. Discussion of politics, politicians and gun control laws are relevant issues, but are off-topic in this thread at this point in time.

Thanks.

[submaniac]

To answer Coma's question, if I understand it correctly the question is if a person with a legally concealed firearm was in the theater, yes they could use deadly force to protect their own life or the life of others.

Realistically speaking, given the circumstances, I don't think they would have stood much of a chance. The police were on scene in less than a minute and a half (there is a second story on Thaivisa about it). The shooter was wearing body armor. Body armor (depending on the level of the body armor) could stop up to all calibers of handgun. Most body armor will not stop a rifle round. (There are some body armors that claim to stop rifle rounds, but the effectiveness is questioned. I know that the LAPD has no vest approved for stopping rifle rounds.) The muzzle velocity of a .45 caliber handgun is about 900-1100 feet per second. The muzzle velocity of a .223/5.56 from an AR-15 could go up as high as 3800 feet per second to around 2900 feet per second (depending on barrel length). The AR round would be travelling at twice the speed of sound. Any way you look at it, everyone in the theater was within point blank range of the AR, and with the speed of an AR bullet, there is nothing in a movie theater that anyone could use as cover as that round would pretty much punch through the seats as if it were going through paper.

The EX gf is LAPD. Even assuming that there was a off duty police officer in the theater, and they were armed, they also would have had a nightmare scenario. It is a dark theater. A police officer cannot just go shooting. They are trained to avoid shooting innocent bystanders, and are trained not to pull the trigger unless they are pretty sure of a hit. A dark movie theater, potentially hundreds of panicked people running around, shooting at a target wearing body armor...I don't know what could have been done in that situation.

My thoughts are with the innocent victims. And while I am a proponent of firearms, I do not want to get into any pro-gun or anti-gun debates in this thread.

edited as post I was responding to was deleted.

Edited July 21, 2012 by submaniac

[geriatrickid]

A tragic case of another mentally ill man engaged in violence. As much as I feel sympathy for the victims, I also have compassion for this seriously ill young man. Cries of vengeance will not make things right. I am a proponent of gun control, but I also know even with a complete ban on firearms, someone like this whould have come up with a more inventive, yet just as lethal way to do his deed. One need only consider at his booby trapped apartment. At least he warned the police his apartment was booby trapped. Over reacting and fretting achieves nothing since I don't believe a person who thinks he is the "joker" as he claimed to be, is capable of fully understanding what he did. Unfortunately, there are people like him walking around, living in your towns and sitting on the train or airplane with you.

[TheWalkingMan]

On the liberal gun laws thing. What would have been the odds that someone else other than the shooter was packing a firearm in the cinema at the time this shooting was going on ? I know it would be a big asked to expect someone to intervene with a short arm when a lunatic is off with an assalt rifle but isn't that what the liberal laws are for ? Protection.

Shooting massacres happen all over the world. A lot of them in countries with very strict firearms laws. And in the wake of such attacks the question is often ask ,if the laws weren't so strict, and one of the victims or persons in or near the attack, was allowed to and was carrying a licenced firearm, would that person have been able to use force to stop, slow down such an assault and therefore save lives ?

Many posters on yahoo say something similar and want more latitude in concealed weapons permits (CWP) with the theory that a civilian with a gun could have stopped this guy.

[webfact]

Gunman kills 12, injures 58 at Colorado movie theater

2012-07-21

AURORA, COLORADO (BNO NEWS) -- A gunman outfitted in complete ballistic gear entered a movie theater in Colorado on early Friday and opened fire during the premiere showing of the new Batman movie, killing 12 people and injuring nearly 60 others in one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history.

The incident began just after 12:35 a.m. local time when the suspect, identified by police as 24-year-old James Eagen Holmes, walked into an auditorium through a side door at the Century 16 Movie Theater in Aurora, a city which is part of the Denver Metropolitan Area. He appeared as a silhouette to moviegoers, some of whom first assumed he was part of a stunt for the movie.

"We believe that as part of this assault, Mr. Holmes set off two devices to distract the crowd," Aurora Police Chief Dan Oate said during a news conference. The gunmen, who initially came in with a ticket but later walked out of an emergency exit door unnoticed, then opened fire at the crowd.

Holmes is believed to have been outfitted in complete ballistic gear, including a ballistic helmet, a tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat and groin protector, black tactical gloves, and a gas mask. He was able to fire dozens of rounds as the moviegoers tried to escape the theater.

"First officers were on scene within a minute and a minute and half of the first 911 call," a police spokesperson said. "Officers contacted Holmes outside of the movie theater by his car. He was arrested without incident. There were 4 guns recovered, one of which was in the theater." The weapons included two .40-caliber Glock handguns, a Remington 870 single-barrel pump shotgun, a Smith & Wesson AR-15 assault-style rifle and as many as 6,000 rounds of ammunition.

Authorities said there were 70 victims in total, of whom 10 died in the theater while two later died at area hospitals. Fifty-eight others were injured and taken by police, ambulance and private vehicles to six area hospitals. Eleven of the injured remained in a critical condition on late Friday.

After Holmes was arrested and identified, officers immediately went to his Aurora residence where booby traps were discovered. "Our investigation determined that his apartment is booby-trapped with various incendiary and chemical devices and apparent trip wires," Oate said. "It may be resolved in hours or days, we simply don't know how we are going to handle that."

There were four midnight showings of 'The Dark Knight Rises' at Century 16 Movie Theater in Aurora on early Friday, all of which were sold out. It was not immediately clear how many people were inside the movie theater, but Oate said officers had interviewed close to 200 witnesses on Friday.

The motive remained unclear on late Friday, but the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said there was no immediate evidence of terrorism.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2012-07-21

[bangkokrick]

Interesting to look at the Colorado gun laws. Point number 2 really stands out to me. Just how many weapons do you require to protect yourself in the US. It appears that there is no limit in this case and this also includes automatic weapons.

So the guy has an automatic rifle a shotgun and 2 hand guns with up to 6000 round and magazines bought legally on the Internet. It has also been made easier following the earlier mass Columbine killings in Colorado 1988.

The above to me is unbelievable and something has to be done regarding arms control, so as to protect the innocent.

RIP to the victims.

Colorado gun laws

• Residents allowed to keep guns in homes, offices and vehicles, but can only carry them in public with a permit
  
• There are no limits to how many guns can be bought a month, and the state permits sale of automatic weapons
  
• No waiting period for buying a handgun, both state and federal state law requires criminal background checks
  
• Since 1998 Columbine massacre, 20 miles from scene of Friday's shooting, it has become easier to buy guns in US - a national ban on assault weapons sale expired in 2004
  

[beb]

Nobody knows what the details of this situation are yet. ABC has even had to retract their earlier report concerning the identity of the shooter. It's pretty sad though when people use a tragedy like this to make political points before the blood has even dried.

[Jingthing]

Nobody knows what the details of this situation are yet. ABC has even had to retract their earlier report concerning the identity of the shooter. It's pretty sad though when people use a tragedy like this to make political points before the blood has even dried.

We do know plenty of details. You mention a VERY TRIVIAL point about one network who found a person online with the same name from the same town with tea party (a right wing pro gun American political movement) and just mentioned that and made it clear they didn't even know for sure if it was the same person. Then soon after they realized it was the wrong person. But the same name. We know the shooter. We know what he did. So we do have the BIG picture. Edited July 21, 2012 by Jingthing