Thai/Farang Baby Abducted To Philippines

[Danielsiam]

My friend have a baby with a girlfriend Thai, who is not married. Their relationship are very bad, as her uncle are policemen,The farang guy his abducted the child to Philippines, without consent of mother, but it's normal at one way because ( he used the UE passport to exit Thailand ). and the girlfriend are very bad she speak very shitty, want too much money from him, or stop relationship at all and don't let see his child..

Her tell to him if you start to start make problem with the Court or another gouvernemental office, he will get a big problem & potential blacklisted of Thailand, because she have enough relationship to do it.. or some friends will make him die..

So after that, he abducted the child at Nong Khai Immigration, by Laos border, & go to Philippines.. so now he affraid to get problem

The child have two nationality ( UE & Thai )

Did have some treaty between ASEAN countries or Thailand-Philippines about abducted child ?

His name can put into Interpol and seach by them ?

Now he affraid to go at border Philippines, have 7 months Overstay in Philippines.

If he come back alone to Thailand without the child, Immigration/Police they can take him to jail ?

Thanks

[Mario2008]

You say girlfriend, so they are not marreid. in that case he is only the legal father if he legitimised the child under Thai law. In the case of a child under 7 years, that means he has to go to the court and asked to become the legal father.

If he didn't do that, he is no the father of the child as far as the law is concerned and it will be kidnapping, for which the Thai government can issue an international arrest warrent true interpol and ask the Philipines government to arrest the man and have the child return to Thailand.

That the child was recognised under UE law is of no consequence, as the child was born in Thailand so the legitimisation must happen under Thai law.

He can be in very deep trouble indeed, it is a very, very serious criminal offence and could be faced with years in jail, just like any other kidnapper.

[Danielsiam]

So, if at the way he can be the legal father officially for Thai governement, the charge encoured can be reduced ? and Thai governement can do again at Interpol search ?

Thanks

Edited July 28, 2012 by Danielsiam

[Mario2008]

He can petition the court to become the legal father. That would not help him in his current situation, because of 2 reasons.

1. The child is already abducted, and the longer he abducts the child the stricter a jailterm he could recieve. Returning the child as soon as posssible is in his best interest, if he gets arrested and the police take the child away it will be a worse scenario for him.

2. Even when he is the legal father, he doesn't have a right to the child. For that he must also be awarded custody over the child. Which in Thailand is most timesgranted shared with the mother. The fact that he has abducted the child will not be in his favor if he wants to get shared custody togehter with the mother.

[473geo]

Would he not have to prove he was the father to get any passport other than a Thai passport?

[Mario2008]

Would he not have to prove he was the father to get any passport other than a Thai passport?

No, normally that is not the case. Officials of many country just look at the birth certificate and accept that as proof, while a birth certificte is no proof of who the father is in case someone is not married.

But the child may have been recognised under the law of the fathers country, however as I said that doesn't help him that much.

[Danielsiam]

I talked to him again,

He says that's have the birth certificate from his country that's recognised the child is from him & he plan go back to his country in UE with the child... So, in his country, the child is legally father for him I just doubt if Interpol can do something bad to him if he be arrested inside the European Union, with his legal child.. ( I know it's very complicated situation, and move countries change the law )

So, I try to look internet some informations. Just I see some points but it confused in this situation :

1- Into the European Convention, no one who have the UE citizenship can be extraded outside of European Union. ( but it can be do for child who have the nationality ? )

So, I see into the UK website about this ( but my friend who abducted the child, he're not from UK, his from one of countries Schengen )

2 - "

In Thailand parental child abduction is not a criminal offence. It is considered to be a dispute between the parents and a civil matter to be settled by a court of law.

Thailand has signed the 1980 Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of Child Abduction but the UK has not yet been able to enter into treaty relations with Thailand. This mean the Convention does not operate between the UK and Thailand. However, the Convention may be in effect between Thailand and other countries

Custody Issues

A child (either male or female) ceases to be a minor when they turn twenty years old. Thai law provides that while a child is still a minor, they are subject to parental powers. If the person exercising parental power (either the mother or father) is judged by the Thai court to be incompetent, abuses their parental power or is guilty of gross misconduct, the court may order the removal of ‘parental power’ either partly or wholly.

In general civil law applies to child custody disputes with the exception of the four provinces of Pattani, Narathiwas, Yala and Satoon, where Islamic (Shariah) law would apply only if both parents in the case are Muslims. If none or only one parent is Muslim, the application for custody or parental power is treated by the law court under civil law, regardless of whether the father or the mother is Muslim. Under Thai law men and women are treated equally regardless of race, language, gender, age, etc.

The duration of a court case relating to child custody could be from approximately six months to eight years depending on whether the case has to be appealed to the Appellate Court and subsequently to the Supreme Court.

A divorce certificate from a foreign country which has been obtained in accordance with the law of that country will be recognised under Thai law. There is no other procedure that needs to be performed for it to be recognised. A mother will not lose custody of her child if she remarries.

An abducting parent caught trying to take their child out of the country while a ‘stop’ order is in place is not likely to be arrested for doing so. If there is a court order instructing the Immigration Bureau not to allow the child to leave the country, the immigration official at the checkpoint would merely turn them back.

Travel

Dual nationality is recognised by the Thai government.

Parents with custody of a child have an automatic right to remove that child from Thailand. This includes for the purposes of holidays. There is no requirement for a special application.

In principle the agreement of both parents is required for a child to leave the country. However, this may not be strictly applied by the authorities at ports of exit. There is no law requiring a left-behind parent to give authority in writing to the other parent. The child would not normally be stopped from leaving the country unless an immigration official had concerns about travel or legal irregularities.

Other information

UK court orders regarding custody, contact or wardship may be recognised by a Thai court without the need for a mirror order. However there is not necessarily a provision for enforcement of such a UK court order in Thailand.

The police or courts are not required to provide information about a case unless the person enquiring is an ‘interested party’ in the case. However, if an enquiry is made by the British Embassy under normal circumstances the courts may provide some limited information.

There is no known local organisation which provides mediation services. However, during a court case the court itself may provide mediators to help the parents resolve the situation. However, it is for the parents to decide whether they are willing to attend a mediation hearing.

The Lawyers Council of Thailand and Office of Attorney General have sections in their organisations who can provide free legal advice and assist in cases. To the best of our knowledge, there are no NGOs providing free legal service or help with funding."

3 - His country was agreed at the Hague Convention

Edited July 28, 2012 by Danielsiam

[Mario2008]

Are you talking about the UE (United Emirates) or EU (European Union)? It seems to be the European Union.

If it is the EU than he is still in trouble and it will be considered kidnapping. At the minimum the child will be returned to the mother, at worst he will be arrested and prosecuted. Even if the legitimisation of the child will be recognised, he still doesn't have custody over the child. The mother only has currently custody of the child.

There is no such rule that citizens of the EU cannot be extradited to cuntries outside the EU. The only rule is that they cannot be extradited if there is a reasonable ground to suspect they will receive the death penalty or will be subject to torture and such.

As said, best is to return the child as soon as possible. And get a good lawyer.

[britinthai]

Well there seems to be some confusion on the facts. Yes indeed the mother has the legal custody and the father should not have taken the child. I have been down this road, things got really bad when I took my son back to the UK; my son ended up going back to Thailand and I had a sever warning from the UK courts, and I was the legal father (My son was born in the UK). When I returned to Thailand and although my X forced the police to arrest me the thai courts throw-out the case, my X took this to the supreme court and they exonerated my actions based on the mother being a bad mum; however this did not change the custody status. However through the courts I now have 50% custody, but in reality in Thailand it only means that you have to pay for your kid's up-bringing nothing else trust me on that. Outside of Thailand it means a dam lot, as my X took my son out of Thailand and this gave me the chance to start a new custody case - thus preventing the child from leaving that country, which is where we are to-date. The best part about this is that you are not fighting a racial country. By having a custody in a country that is independent will put the best interest of the child first - unlike Thailand where they know very well that most cases involving farang's the mum came from the bar and she simply sends the child home to the village, while the mum does her business on her back; this is the life of most disputed kid cases and the Thai justice system does not want to admit this crap goes on - thus putting the child at the bottom of the ladder. Obviously there are some men that will go the extra mile but they face five to ten years of going through the Thai courts -trust me there is no fast track in support of the best interest of the child, which as you can understand is basically too late; the kid becomes one of the many Thai problem child's. WAKE UP THAILAND YOUR JUSTICE SYSTEM ONLY HELPS THOSE WHO CAN’T BE HELPED. What amazed me is that the UK courts openly accepted the Thai court order; you try getting the same in the Thai courts; it will never happen – let alone if you go to the Thai police they will simply laugh at you e.g. until you show them the colour of money. Best you friend goes to Malaysia and try to get them to follow their religion law where is the mum is a pro and simply sends the child to a village she will lose for sure. This is in the best interest of the child

Edited January 9, 2013 by britinthai

[Mario2008]

Thai courts only have the best interest of the child at hearth. I can't say the Thai courts are biased.

Nor would I say that most foreingers are married to a bargirl.

[FritsSikkink]

1- Into the European Convention, no one who have the UE citizenship can be extraded outside of European Union. ( but it can be do for child who have the nationality ? )

So, I see into the UK website about this ( but my friend who abducted the child, he're not from UK, his from one of countries Schengen )

2 - "

In Thailand parental child abduction is not a criminal offence. It is considered to be a dispute between the parents and a civil matter to be settled by a court of law.

1) EU citizens can be extradited.

2) Your friend does not have parental rights.

Edited January 10, 2013 by FritsSikkink