Huayrat Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 This is another populist policy that will only put the farmers in more debt than they are in now...(MOST) Thais dont worry about tomorrow or the future, they only think of how to get ahead today! Sad but true. I lived in Essan and they do not need to have resources for borrowing any more money......They are way into debt already... Wake up and let the farmers know what is next when they cannot pay the bills..... Learn how to spell isan or isaan correctly then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawaiimomo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Of course if the farmers cannot repay their credit card debts they can always sell their land to some rich Thai Chinese families living in Chiang Mai and the North who are always on the lookout for cheap assets. What land? Most of those farmers don't own any land, just pay the owner to grow on it :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 This is another populist policy that will only put the farmers in more debt than they are in now...(MOST) Thais dont worry about tomorrow or the future, they only think of how to get ahead today! Sad but true. I lived in Essan and they do not need to have resources for borrowing any more money......They are way into debt already... Wake up and let the farmers know what is next when they cannot pay the bills..... Learn how to spell isan or isaan correctly then hahahahaha!Which is it!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Moruya, I think it's Isssaan or Issssssaarn, Ha Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 This has got to be one of the most bazaar articles I have read on this forum! Keep them in debt, keep them under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ms. Yingluck said the government’s urgent policy is to distribute credit cards to farmers which they can use to buy agricultural factors such as fertilizers, plant seeds or pesticides from stores registered with the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives. They forgot to mention that this project will just increase poverty in Isaan. First two month will be free of any interest, but then at least 7%. My father in law would have huge problems to use such a card, but his friends would know how to get some Lao Khao for this card. Surin is a well-known elephant habitat and organizes a yearly elephant round-up that brings a lot of tourists. Gotta love this one! Those elephants are sometimes in Sisaket to make money. Problem is that they can't read the road signs that they're usually not allowed to enter the walking street after 4pm, nor do their Mahuts.have the ability to identify such signs. But tiny lights on an elephant at night seem to avoid bigger accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Sirchai, that thumbnail photo of the lady---she would never break her nose if she fell forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) This has got to be one of the most bazaar articles I have read on this forum! Keep them in debt, keep them under control. That would include those city dwellers who have taken out a mortgage too....... . Edited July 29, 2012 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Indeed it does. The mortgage normally uses the property as collateral and security, and on default can be sold by the mortgagor to recover unpaid sums. So there is a huge incentive to pay the money back. Are there any similar conditions for these credit cards? And whatever happened with the cabbies' scheme? Did it get sorted out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 This has got to be one of the most bazaar articles I have read on this forum! Keep them in debt, keep them under control. That would include those city dwellers who have taken out a mortgage too....... . You're comparing apples to oranges, big difference between a mortgage and credit card loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Brilliant way to HELP ---(rob) the farmer of his land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I hope they tell the farmers that they eventually have to pay the bills, something they apparently neglected to do when they gave the taxi drivers credit cards. Have you ever know a thai who understands that money that is Borrowed must be repaid? If a Thai girl says to you she want to borrow money, what she means is, can you give me money as I have no intention of giving you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 This has got to be one of the most bazaar articles I have read on this forum! Keep them in debt, keep them under control. That would include those city dwellers who have taken out a mortgage too....... . You're comparing apples to oranges, big difference between a mortgage and credit card loans. Please read the post I was replying to, particularly the point being "in debt, under control" Both parties mentioned are "in debt" and therefore "under control" In fact initially the farmer is probably slightly better off, much lower value, no worries about negative equity. I very much doubt the 'card' will carry the format of a regular credit card where cash is available, it may even be a case the buying power does not use the farm land as collateral, so beneficial for the farmer no real issues. But until the exact distribution method is announced, the various adverse comments from the usual forum 'seers' .are just conjecture, as are my thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 From the "urgent policies to be implemented in the first year "1.11 Raise the price of agricultural products and enable farmers to gain access to sources of investment by ensuring that prices of agricultural products remain reasonably stable, reflecting global market price mechanisms, by utilizing marketing management and futures markets. Support farmers to sell their products at reasonably high prices compared to their costs. Implement a crop insurance scheme in order to provide income security for farmers, beginning with long grain rice and fragrant Hom Mali rice with moisture not exceeding 15% at 15,000 Baht and 20,000 Baht per cart, respectively. Provide remedies to farmers whose crops are damaged by natural disasters. Establish a registration system for farmer households and issue credit cards for farmers." http://www.thailandtoday.org/node/509 2011-09-09 http://thaifinancial...rds-on-april-1/ 2011-09-30 http://www.nationmul...s-30166535.html 2012-03-12 http://thaifinancial...rds-on-april-1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) EU 2012 agricultural subsidies will be in the region of 57 billion Eur, over 40% of the EU budget, 39 billion Eur in direct subsidy Source Wiki You do understand the direct subsidies are not repayable if the correct criteria is met Supporting agriculture appears to rather important in the EU, just no requirement to elevate agriculture to the same level of importance in Thailand according to the economic 'experts' on Tvisa I guess I knew farmers in the UK that had more income than the average monthly wage,from the government, before their foot hit the floor in the morning......hardly a level playing field is it? Edited July 29, 2012 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I think budget figures on farming subsidies are more fitting in the topic on 'rice price fixing', but as some seem to think it may also fit here, let's draw on official EU figures: http://ec.europa.eu/...011/2011_en.cfm http://ec.europa.eu/...012/2012_en.cfm Mind you, the bureaucratic description of "2. Preservation and management of natural resources" and subdivision "2.1 of which Direct aids & market related expenditure" may need more explanation than I will be able to give. The total EU budget is about 1.13% GNI, with item 2. 42% of the 1.13% GNI. That suggest that Thailand with a national budget of TB 2.2 trillion spending THB 260 billion on rice price pledging only ... ... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) I think budget figures on farming subsidies are more fitting in the topic on 'rice price fixing', but as some seem to think it may also fit here, let's draw on official EU figures: http://ec.europa.eu/...011/2011_en.cfm http://ec.europa.eu/...012/2012_en.cfm Mind you, the bureaucratic description of "2. Preservation and management of natural resources" and subdivision "2.1 of which Direct aids & market related expenditure" may need more explanation than I will be able to give. The total EU budget is about 1.13% GNI, with item 2. 42% of the 1.13% GNI. That suggest that Thailand with a national budget of TB 2.2 trillion spending THB 260 billion on rice price pledging only ... ... ... I think you will find 40% of 2.2 trillion is nearer to a trillion baht than 260 billion, it's all about the disposable amount, not how it is accumulated Edited July 29, 2012 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Be interesting to see how this is rolled out........ The Democrats election promise was subsidise fertiliser 25%......I guess the main beneficiaries of this policy would be the owners of large tracts of land, and also the fertiliser companies maintain full production at no loss of profit, and of course the small landowner to a lesser extend It remains to be seen if there will be a 'value' of subsidy on the cards, say per elligible person, or a percentage reduction to be picked up by the government. It is not unusual for governments to support agriculture, vast amounts are seconded to the cause in Europe, a country that cannot feed itself better have a real good alternative to generate income, and occupy the labour force. For those of you who are unfamiliar with Thai small farm economics, I know many who go to the bank to negotiate their annual overdraft, or borrow a regular amount annually from the village fund, or both, these loans will only be repeated on repayment. I also know it is a matter of great pride to most that the village loan is repaid, as if not the whole village will be aware! There are many diverse ways of borrowing, and as such of subsidising, but in general in the modern world most agriculture is subsidised to a large extent, just depends how the government wishes to feed the subsidies out Elephant situation in Surin needs to be handled carefully, but if you read, it is the guy from the chamber of commerce, rather gives the game away! So now with the government cards the farmers don't need to borrow from the bank or village in generally support the economy. They can just charge it on the government and no body will be the wiser when they don't pay it back. Expect to see a lot of new vehicles and expensive cell phones in all the provinces that are receiving the cards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Be interesting to see how this is rolled out........ The Democrats election promise was subsidise fertiliser 25%......I guess the main beneficiaries of this policy would be the owners of large tracts of land, and also the fertiliser companies maintain full production at no loss of profit, and of course the small landowner to a lesser extend It remains to be seen if there will be a 'value' of subsidy on the cards, say per elligible person, or a percentage reduction to be picked up by the government. It is not unusual for governments to support agriculture, vast amounts are seconded to the cause in Europe, a country that cannot feed itself better have a real good alternative to generate income, and occupy the labour force. For those of you who are unfamiliar with Thai small farm economics, I know many who go to the bank to negotiate their annual overdraft, or borrow a regular amount annually from the village fund, or both, these loans will only be repeated on repayment. I also know it is a matter of great pride to most that the village loan is repaid, as if not the whole village will be aware! There are many diverse ways of borrowing, and as such of subsidising, but in general in the modern world most agriculture is subsidised to a large extent, just depends how the government wishes to feed the subsidies out Elephant situation in Surin needs to be handled carefully, but if you read, it is the guy from the chamber of commerce, rather gives the game away! So now with the government cards the farmers don't need to borrow from the bank or village in generally support the economy. They can just charge it on the government and no body will be the wiser when they don't pay it back. Expect to see a lot of new vehicles and expensive cell phones in all the provinces that are receiving the cards. Care to explain the purchase value that will be placed on the cards that has prompted your far sighted comment. This information will allow me to respond accurately to your comment Thank you Edited July 29, 2012 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waza Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Actually they sound more like a store card than a credit card, given that they can only be used in limited retail outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrysum Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Of course if the farmers cannot repay their credit card debts they can always sell their land to some rich Thai Chinese families living in Chiang Mai and the North who are always on the lookout for cheap assets. What land? Most of those farmers don't own any land, just pay the owner to grow on it :-( Very true my friend you are correct.... I know in Mukdahan, Thailand.... this definitely happens.... And when you lease your farm land? Don't expect great results..... If you own it and farm it, it will be better taken care of..... Just my opinion...... Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrysum Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 That is a Big Mistake...and they will bury the farmers in debt up to their eyeballs... So very correct!!!!!!!!!!! keep them poor and humbled.... Problem is? It keeps repeating itself over and over again... This is a big problem in the North East Issan..... I call it the too many fingers in the pie problem.... Be independent, use resources wisely....... It is an open invite to destruction.... And yes there are those that will wait on the sidelines, that want to take what you have....... Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Moruya, I think it's Isssaan or Issssssaarn, Ha Ha Ever tried finding it on a map? Ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Credit Cards imply DEBT, so lets take the poor and add one more level of profit skimming on their poor lives. Who will these cards be tied too? Banks, Gov. accounts? How will they be administered? Someone must be keeping track of the accdounting... Who is making money doing it? Is this a subcontract or are government accounting office people being assigned to this? Is this a loan? What terms? How long? What interest? What happens if they default; like from floods wiping out their crop again? Edited July 30, 2012 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 http://news.voicetv.co.th/in-english/17187.html BAAC to Provide Credit Cards, Debt Moratorium For Farmers 28 สิงหาคม 2554 Finance Minister Tirachai Puvanadnaranuban instructed the state-owned bank on Friday to quickly manage to hand out credit cards to some 300,000 of its farmer customers throughout the country from Oct 1. The BAAC credit cards will cover a maximum of 70% of the net price of a capital merchandise. The balance will be paid in cash out of the farmer's pocket. The farmers are expected to use their BAAC credit cards to buy such capital goods as fertilizers, seedlings, pesticides and farm tools and machines. The farmer's credit card will carry a 7% interest rate and a 12- to 18-months repayment term. The farmer customers may use their credit cards at varied agricultural cooperatives and some 3,000 stores affiliated with the BAAC nationwide. Meanwhile, farmers who may have no less than 500,000 baht in debt to the BAAC will be provided a moratorium for a three-years time from Oct 1 this year until Sep 30, 2014. Over 639,000 farmers in all parts of the country were known to have a combined 77.7 billion baht in debt to the BAAC. The government will pay for the interest rates of the farmers' debts, calculated to amount to 14 billion baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think budget figures on farming subsidies are more fitting in the topic on 'rice price fixing', but as some seem to think it may also fit here, let's draw on official EU figures: http://ec.europa.eu/...011/2011_en.cfm http://ec.europa.eu/...012/2012_en.cfm Mind you, the bureaucratic description of "2. Preservation and management of natural resources" and subdivision "2.1 of which Direct aids & market related expenditure" may need more explanation than I will be able to give. The total EU budget is about 1.13% GNI, with item 2. 42% of the 1.13% GNI. That suggest that Thailand with a national budget of TB 2.2 trillion spending THB 260 billion on rice price pledging only ... ... ... I think you will find 40% of 2.2 trillion is nearer to a trillion baht than 260 billion, it's all about the disposable amount, not how it is accumulated I still wonder what all this has to do with the Farmer CreditCard scheme. You mentioned "EU 2012 agricultural subsidies will be in the region of 57 billion Eur, over 40% of the EU budget, 39 billion Eur in direct subsidy" To which I replied with links to the EU website and clarified or at least tried to, that in 2012 item "2.1 Direct aids & market related expenditure" of Euro 44 billion is 40% of the EU budget which is 1.12% of GNI (*). The EU spents 0.448% of GNI of all countries within the European Union on item 2.1. Of course individual countries still have their own National budgets. Thailand with a 2012 National Budget of THB 2.2 trillion spent THB 260 billion on rice price pledging till now which is almost 12%. In absolute terms Thailand spent about Euro 6.5 billion. (* GNI has widely replaced Gross National Product (GNP) as an indicator of income. In the area of the EU budget this change took effect as from the year 2002.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I think budget figures on farming subsidies are more fitting in the topic on 'rice price fixing', but as some seem to think it may also fit here, let's draw on official EU figures: http://ec.europa.eu/...011/2011_en.cfm http://ec.europa.eu/...012/2012_en.cfm Mind you, the bureaucratic description of "2. Preservation and management of natural resources" and subdivision "2.1 of which Direct aids & market related expenditure" may need more explanation than I will be able to give. The total EU budget is about 1.13% GNI, with item 2. 42% of the 1.13% GNI. That suggest that Thailand with a national budget of TB 2.2 trillion spending THB 260 billion on rice price pledging only ... ... ... I think you will find 40% of 2.2 trillion is nearer to a trillion baht than 260 billion, it's all about the disposable amount, not how it is accumulated I still wonder what all this has to do with the Farmer CreditCard scheme. You mentioned "EU 2012 agricultural subsidies will be in the region of 57 billion Eur, over 40% of the EU budget, 39 billion Eur in direct subsidy" To which I replied with links to the EU website and clarified or at least tried to, that in 2012 item "2.1 Direct aids & market related expenditure" of Euro 44 billion is 40% of the EU budget which is 1.12% of GNI (*). The EU spents 0.448% of GNI of all countries within the European Union on item 2.1. Of course individual countries still have their own National budgets. Thailand with a 2012 National Budget of THB 2.2 trillion spent THB 260 billion on rice price pledging till now which is almost 12%. In absolute terms Thailand spent about Euro 6.5 billion. (* GNI has widely replaced Gross National Product (GNP) as an indicator of income. In the area of the EU budget this change took effect as from the year 2002.) Rubl, GNP or GNI is rapidly becoming a questionable measure, my point is that funding is poured into agriculture all over the world, and you guys appear to have your noses out of joint because farmers may get a helping hand, so what if they do not pay it back, neither are the direct subsidies in Europe 'paid back'. Apologies if you cannot make the connection, but then I recall most on here are against a reasonable 300 baht a day wage too! Edited July 30, 2012 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiHadOrange Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Ms. Yingluck said the government’s urgent policy is to distribute credit cards to farmers which they can use to buy agricultural factors such as fertilizers, plant seeds or pesticides from stores registered with the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives. Seems to be kind of a microcredit program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcredit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 So Southern farmers don't need them? No they didn't vote PTP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirchai Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sirchai, that thumbnail photo of the lady---she would never break her nose if she fell forward. Sorry, found this photo online when searching for elephants in Surin.. Didn't know that it was your wife. I apologize....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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