We Started Online Uk Visa Application Today, But.....

[UKJASE]

hi guys, my thai wife is making an application to go to the uk to visit my family. I am her husband, and I am a british citizen

we started the online application form, via the link below at fco . gov . uk website

https://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/AppProcess/s_VisaRequirements.aspx?check=true

when applying for a family visa, we get the following text, which is implying that we cannot apply for this type of visa

the text reads -

Important Information

Only customers who hold a Tier 5 YMS Certificate of Sponsorship (CoS) issued by the Consular Services Division in the Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs should proceed to submit an application under this category. Customers who do not hold the required CoS will not be able to complete the application process.

can you tell me what we should do? can we apply for a family visa, even though we don’t have this document outlined from Korea?

I am guessing we should be applying for a family visa, rather than a general visitor visa, but this notification has puzzled us.....

[7by7]

Is she applying in Korea?

UK visas should be applied for in the applicant's country of residence, so if she is applying in Korea then as she is Thai she would need to show that she is legally resident in Korea.

If she is applying in Thailand then I have no idea why it is mentioning Korea at all; glitch in the system? In which case all I can suggest is that you try again.

[bangkockney]

I could reproduce the problem by selecting Thai / Thailand where relevant.

Must be a bug. The Youth Mobility Scheme has nothing to do with visitors.

Have you tried progressing through the application? I would and add an explanatory note that clearly it doesn't apply.

[bobrussell]

There certainly seems to be a bug or bugs in the system. I helped one of my wifes friends to complete a visit visa from Switzerland and she was told to go to VFS in Bangkok!

Everyone swore blind that the application country had been filled in as Switzerland (confirmed by the print out) but filling in the form again as a new application gave the choice of Zurich or Geneva!

Granted after three weeks of waiting!

[UKJASE]

no she is not in korea, she is in our lounge, in thailand.....

i have emailed [email protected], and [email protected] and told them my concerns

but, with the first email address i got an auto response saing they try to answer all emails within 20 working days!!!

the second email bounced back, saying the email address was not recognised (even though the lady on the helpline gave it to me)

i am not sure what to do now...... can you guys just confirm, that one of the types of visas my wife is allowed to apply for, is a family visa?

she has the choice i presume, either family or general visitor...... we both think it is important she applies for the family visa, as this is the true nature of her visit.....

thanks for helping us out guys

[bobrussell]

The requirements for a general visit visa and a family one are not that different other than you need to be visiting family!

It is likely that there will still be a right of appeal if you are visiting close family such as parents!

The simplest thing would be to print out what you have done already, create a new account and start from scratch. The old application will be deleted automatically after a week or so.

Double check what is entered in the 'what country are you applying from' and make sure it states Thailand!

[VisasPlus]

no she is not in korea, she is in our lounge, in thailand.....

i have emailed [email protected], and [email protected] and told them my concerns

but, with the first email address i got an auto response saing they try to answer all emails within 20 working days!!!

the second email bounced back, saying the email address was not recognised (even though the lady on the helpline gave it to me)

i am not sure what to do now...... can you guys just confirm, that one of the types of visas my wife is allowed to apply for, is a family visa?

she has the choice i presume, either family or general visitor...... we both think it is important she applies for the family visa, as this is the true nature of her visit.....

thanks for helping us out guys

Yes, your wife can apply for a family visit visa to visit your family in the UK (your parents, brothers or sisters ?). A family visit visa application gives the right of appeal in the event of refusal. A general visit visa application doesn't.

It sounds like a bug in the system. I would just start again. I doubt very much if VFS will take the 20 working days to reply, especially if it is genuinely a glitch in the system.

[ralphsilver]

I agree with Visaplus. I have asked many questions via email and they have replied within a couple of working days. If it helps i used this address to contact the VFS. [email protected]

[UKJASE]

we carried on with the online form regardless yesterday guys and it all went through fine,

we also booked an appoitment for tuesday next week, so fingers crossed for the good lady

thanks for helping us out guys..... very much appreciated, and spot on advice as usual

[UKJASE]

hey guys..... just a quick update on our application.....

we made the application a week ago, and when we got to VFS for our appointment the lady told us that the family visa we had applied for was incorrect, and as of last month, if the person applying for the visa is going to be entering the country with her husband, rather than her husband waiting for her in uk, then she has to apply for a visitor visa..... but luckily we could refill in the application online in the office and still keep our original appointment......

we had to pay 250B to use the computer in the VFS centre to re-complete the form, but we were still dealt with the same day, but had to join the back of the queue system.......

so, from our experience, if husband and wife are entering the UK together, then as of July, the person applying for the visa should apply for a visitor visa, not family visa

so i guess we no longer have any right of appeal

[7by7]

I don't think they were correct.

From Can you come to the UK as a family visitor?

To come to the UK as a family visitor, you must be able to show that you will be visiting the following family members in the UK:

• spouse, civil partner, father, mother, son, daughter, brother or sister;
  
• grandfather, grandmother, grandson or granddaughter;
  
• spouse or civil partner's father, mother, brother or sister (my emphasis);
  
• son or daughter's spouse or civil partner;
  
• stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister; or
  
• a person you have been living with in a genuine and subsisting relationship, like marriage or civil partnership, for at least 2 years before the day you apply.
  

You are presumably visiting your parents and/or siblings, so she should have been able to apply as a family visitor.

It is not up to vfs staff to decide if someone is applying in the correct category; that is not their job and they're not qualified to do so. Whether or not you feel a complaint and an attempt to get your 250 baht back are worth it is up to you. I'd complain, not because of the money but the principle.

Having changed the application from a family visit to a general visit then yes, she has lost any right of appeal if it is refused.

[Eff1n2ret]

hey guys..... just a quick update on our application.....

we made the application a week ago, and when we got to VFS for our appointment the lady told us that the family visa we had applied for was incorrect, and as of last month, if the person applying for the visa is going to be entering the country with her husband, rather than her husband waiting for her in uk, then she has to apply for a visitor visa..... but luckily we could refill in the application online in the office and still keep our original appointment......

so, from our experience, if husband and wife are entering the UK together, then as of July, the person applying for the visa should apply for a visitor visa, not family visa

so i guess we no longer have any right of appeal

But your OP said you were going to UK to visit your family, and the criteria for a Family visit do not just include the applicant's spouse, they also include all these, as set out in the guidance to ECO's:-

"VAT2.2 What is a family visitor?

All visit applications made on or after 9 July 2012 should be given the appropriate appeal rights in accordance with the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2012.

For the purposes of lodging a FRA an applicant must be visiting 1 of the following qualifying family members in the UK:

• Spouse, civil partner, father, mother, son, daughter, brother or sister;
  
• Grandfather, grandmother, grandson or granddaughter;
  
• Spouse or civil partner's father, mother, brother or sister;
  
• Son or daughter's spouse or civil partner;
  
• Stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister"
  

So if you were intending to see anyof the above, and I bet you will at least be seeing those I have highlighted in bold it is a Family Visit.

Unfortunately, the staff at VFS are not qualified to judge any aspect of an application, they are merely there to take in the paperwork and pass it on. They are living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Edit:- sorry 7/7 beat me to it

Edited August 19, 2012 by Eff1n2ret

[VisasPlus]

I don't think they were correct.

From Can you come to the UK as a family visitor?

To come to the UK as a family visitor, you must be able to show that you will be visiting the following family members in the UK:

• spouse, civil partner, father, mother, son, daughter, brother or sister;
  
• grandfather, grandmother, grandson or granddaughter;
  
• spouse or civil partner's father, mother, brother or sister (my emphasis);
  
• son or daughter's spouse or civil partner;
  
• stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister; or
  
• a person you have been living with in a genuine and subsisting relationship, like marriage or civil partnership, for at least 2 years before the day you apply.
  

You are presumably visiting your parents and/or siblings, so she should have been able to apply as a family visitor.

It is not up to vfs staff to decide if someone is applying in the correct category; that is not their job and they're not qualified to do so. Whether or not you feel a complaint and an attempt to get your 250 baht back are worth it is up to you. I'd complain, not because of the money but the principle.

Having changed the application from a family visit to a general visit then yes, she has lost any right of appeal if it is refused.

It is not up to VFS to decide whether the application is a family visit or a general visit. VFS must not involve itself in the visa process. In addition, the guidance to ECOs states:

Do family visitors have full rights of appeal (FRA)?

The burden of proof is on the applicant to demonstrate that they, 1) have a qualifying family member in the UK and 2) intend to visit that family member.

If refused an applicant is entitled to a FRA if they demonstrate all of the following:

• the application submitted falls to be assessed under all of the requirements of paragraph 41 of the Immigration Rules or for child visitors under paragraph 46A;
  
• the intention is to visit a qualifying family member in the UK as defined in the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2012; and
  
• the main purpose for the visit is to visit a qualifying family member.
  

The ECO should assess all the information provided to determine whether the main purpose of the visit is to visit a qualifying family member. The relationship stated on the VAF and/or supporting documents should be accepted unless 1 of the following scenarios apply:

1. the applicant has submitted a Family Visitor application but the main purpose of the visit is to engage in an activity not provided for under Paragraph 41 of the Rules (that is, business visitor, sports visitor, entertainer visitor, medical visitor, visit for marriage or civil partnership and student visitor); or

2. the applicant has not fully completed the relevant sections of the VAF and no evidence has been submitted which suggests that the visit is for the purpose of visiting a qualifying family member; or

3. no evidence has been submitted with the application which demonstrates that a family visit is intended; or

4. the applicant and/or sponsor does not detail what their relationship is either on the VAF or supporting documents.

Where sponsorship documents have been submitted and the ECO has reason and/or grounds to doubt the relationship, a telephone call should be made to the sponsor in the UK and clarification sought. A DVR should be completed in all cases to justify the refusal and to support the ECOs decision to refuse on a LRA.

Clear reasons should be provided on the refusal notice to why a FRA was not given. For example, 'You have applied to visit xxxx but he/she does not qualify as a family member under the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2012 because xxxx.'

VFS are not qualified to say whether your application contains information or documentation to support your claim that this was a family visit.You should complain as soon as possible, and seek a refund of the 250 THB. The ECO may well have decided that it was not a "family visit" ( if nothing in the supporting documents indicated the presence of a qualifying family member in the UK ), but VFS cannot decide this.

[VisasPlus]

hey guys..... just a quick update on our application.....

we made the application a week ago, and when we got to VFS for our appointment the lady told us that the family visa we had applied for was incorrect, and as of last month, if the person applying for the visa is going to be entering the country with her husband, rather than her husband waiting for her in uk, then she has to apply for a visitor visa..... but luckily we could refill in the application online in the office and still keep our original appointment......

so, from our experience, if husband and wife are entering the UK together, then as of July, the person applying for the visa should apply for a visitor visa, not family visa

so i guess we no longer have any right of appeal

But your OP said you were going to UK to visit your family, and the criteria for a Family visit do not just include the applicant's spouse, they also include all these, as set out in the guidance to ECO's:-

"VAT2.2 What is a family visitor?

All visit applications made on or after 9 July 2012 should be given the appropriate appeal rights in accordance with the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2012.

For the purposes of lodging a FRA an applicant must be visiting 1 of the following qualifying family members in the UK:

• Spouse, civil partner, father, mother, son, daughter, brother or sister;
  
• Grandfather, grandmother, grandson or granddaughter;
  
• Spouse or civil partner's father, mother, brother or sister;
  
• Son or daughter's spouse or civil partner;
  
• Stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister"
  

So if you were intending to see anyof the above, and I bet you will at least be seeing those I have highlighted in bold it is a Family Visit.

Unfortunately, the staff at VFS are not qualified to judge any aspect of an application, they are merely there to take in the paperwork and pass it on. They are living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Edit:- sorry 7/7 beat me to it

Sorry, John. Was obviously writing as you posted !

[7by7]

We do seem to all have been typing at the same time; or at least one after the other!

One question, gentlemen;

If a family visit application is submitted and the ECO decides the criteria for a family visit are not met, will the ECO refuse outright or will they look to see if the criteria for a general visit are met and if they are, issue a general visit visa?

[VisasPlus]

We do seem to all have been typing at the same time; or at least one after the other!

One question, gentlemen;

If a family visit application is submitted and the ECO decides the criteria for a family visit are not met, will the ECO refuse outright or will they look to see if the criteria for a general visit are met and if they are, issue a general visit visa?

If the applicant hasn't provided any evidence that it is a family visit, then the application will be refused. It will not be considered as a "general" visit application.

[7by7]

Thanks.

[UKJASE]

well that's a real shame / balls up..... it is my wife applying, and so you guys seem certain that she could have applied for a family visa

the lady definately said to us, as of july 2012, that if the applicant, and husband, were travelling into the UK together, then the wife could not apply for the family visa, and it had to be a general visa.....

i wish i had questioned her, but i just assumed she knew what she was talking about....... now i think about it, it does seem like a crazy rule..... if the rule was that we werent allowed to travel together, then i guess many people would just get the earlier flight, with the wife following on on the next flight..... bugger...... i just hope that my rushed submission on the computer was completed thoroughly, and that we are succesful

if i did want to complain, should i email VFS you think? is there anything they could do about it now, as the application was submitted a week on friday ago?

cheers for taking the time with your thorough and informed responses 7by7 / eff1n2ret / visaplus

[bobrussell]

Odd that they should mention July 2012 at all as the changes were primarily for settlement applications but did include limitations to some rights of appeal for family visit visas where more distant relatives are involved.

From what I read there are no changes to family visits visas, simply changes to the right of appeal.

Complain to VFS and copy to the Embassy irrespective of the additional costs as further training is clearly required. They will be able to identify the individual involved from the application!

[theoldgit]

Complain to VFS and copy to the Embassy irrespective of the additional costs as further training is clearly required. They will be able to identify the individual involved from the application!

I think that is a good point, if a member of staff is giving out inaccurate advice then VFS need to be made aware, though they should have systems in place to pick it up already.

It may be too late to help you on this occasion, but it might help others.

[7by7]

Complaints in Thailand

[Eff1n2ret]

....... now i think about it, it does seem like a crazy rule..... if the rule was that we werent allowed to travel together, then i guess many people would just get the earlier flight, with the wife following on on the next flight.....

It's not as simple as that. Bobrussell is perfectly correct, that the recent Statement of Changes only defined more closely who has a right of appeal as a Family Visitor, and the main aim of the changes seems to have been to exclude all except immediate family members (i.e. no uncles, cousins, etc). I can't see where there has been a change in relation to spouses travelling with the applicant, maybe this was just a matter of clarification at the same time as the changes were implemented.

The actual Statement of Changes is here:-

http://www.legislati...gulation/2/made - and it's obvious from Regulation 2 that a spouse is a Family Member for appeal purposes (and therefore by implication for application purposes). However, Regulation 3 then states:-

3. The circumstances of P mentioned in regulation 2(1)(B are that P

(a)is settled in the United Kingdom as defined in paragraph 6(1) of the immigration rules....

So if you then turn to Para 6(1) of the Rules, you see this:-

"settled in the United Kingdom" means that the person concerned:

(a) is free from any restriction on the period for which he may remain .......

and

(B is .....:

(i) ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom

without having entered or remained in breach of the immigration laws

- so I think it's the bit I've highlighted in bold that dishes the notion that you can be visiting a spouse who lives with you outside the UK. I think that definition has been in place for a while so either Provision 3 of the recent Changes is new, or else they've just decided to tighten up on what was already in place. In practice, I suspect most visa applicants travelling with their spouse are likely to be visiting at least one of the spouse's relatives mentioned in Regulation 2 - they just have to make this clear on the application so as to attract the right of appeal if refused.

[UKJASE]

hey guys.... i took your advice and wrote to VFS and complained to them, asking if the information i had been given had been correct.... i will post back when i hear back......

one more thing if i may guys..... my wife has just had the text saying that her visa application is ready for collection, and a ref no. was given

2 questions pls......

1 - can we just turn up at the VFS office any time in the next week or so and get our results and returned documents (we live in hua hin you see), or do we need an appointment?

2 - are we able to check online or over the phone today to see if our application has been successful? on the vfs site it allows us to track the application, but only tells us that it is ready for collection, and not the outcome.....

[theoldgit]

Yes you can just turn up, you don't need an appointment to collect the passport, but you can only collect from 15.00 - 16.30, Monday to Friday.

You cannot find out the result until you open the envelope as VFS don't know, they just deliver the envelope. You cannot find out from the UKBA by phone or online, wait and see I'm afraid.

Good luck

Edited August 23, 2012 by theoldgit

[theoldgit]

Sorry the collection times are 13.00 - 16.30 Monday to Friday and 08.30 - 12.00 on Saturday, I'm not sure if the Saturday collection is for those who have paid the premium, though it doesn't say so on their website

[UKJASE]

thanks TheOldGit..... is there any point in us making an appointment or should we just turn up and wait with the masses??

would an appontment get us seen quicker?? thanks for the good luck message

[theoldgit]

You cannot make an appointment, it's just a case of pitching up and waiting your turn.

I haven't done it for a couple of years but it's comparatively quick, there's nobody handing in forms, so nothing to check, they are just handing over envelopes.

Edited August 23, 2012 by theoldgit

[VisasPlus]

We do seem to all have been typing at the same time; or at least one after the other!

One question, gentlemen;

If a family visit application is submitted and the ECO decides the criteria for a family visit are not met, will the ECO refuse outright or will they look to see if the criteria for a general visit are met and if they are, issue a general visit visa?

If the applicant hasn't provided any evidence that it is a family visit, then the application will be refused. It will not be considered as a "general" visit application.

Actually, 7x7, I'm not sure my answer is strictly correct. There is a refusal wording for family visa applicants who don't qualify, but it does seem to apply only to the appeal rights rather than the applicant being refused a visa solely because it is not a "family visit". It says:

Clear reasons should be provided on the refusal notice to why a FRA was not given. For example, 'You have applied to visit xxxx but he/she does not qualify as a family member under the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2012 because xxxx.'

A family visit is, in fact, only a general visit, and has to be considered under paragraph 41 of the immigration rules. On reflection, I think the ECO must consider the application as a general visit application, and can only limit the appeal rights when, and if, he refuses the visa.

[UKJASE]

hey guys..... i am the OP and just reporting back.....

we got the SMS from the visa office the other day and we went to bkk on monday and happy days my wife got the visa...... also, double happy days, that even though the woman had told us we should infact be applying for a vistor visa, and we did apply as instructed, we were awarded a family visa.....

i had emailed VFS and told them what the lady had told me, and how she said we could not apply for family visa, and then upon our return from bkk i had this email back from VFS

"There has been a recent change to the family visitor immigration rules and it has been brought to our attention that there has been a misunderstanding of these new rules amongst staff at the VFS visa application centre. We have addressed this matter with them and I can confirm that a spouse who is travelling to their UK with their British husband/wife is eligible to apply as a family visitor.

For those applications we have received where it is clear that an applicant should qualify as a family visitor but have applied as a general visitor, we have amended the category of visa to reflect this and I can confirm that we have done this for your wife."

so all is well that ends well guys, and big thanks for taking some of the time out of your day to help a complete stranger.......

great advice throughout and thoroughly appreciated

hope i can return the favour one day........ jason

[7by7]

Nice to see that they've acknowledged their mistake; even though VFS staff shouldn't be offerring advice on applications in the first place!

Did you get the 250baht back?