puck2 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The US does not shy away from supporting/installing despicable tyrants when it suits their needs. A long history of this since the end of WWII. I think there will be a major military conflict in this part of the world soon, probably by the end of the decade. T is just the type of guy they usually support. 1+ The visa for T. is the second reward for participating in the" multinational force" in Iraq, providing 423 personnel from 2003 to 2004. The first was G.Walker's closed eyes during T.'s criminal drug war in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I doubt that either Obama or Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, would be handing out rewards for Bush. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalPoster Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its not just convictions - he also has several charges against him including terrorism and possibly now crimes against humanity. What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlest Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Taksin is and always will be about mental manipulation - his whole strategy is carefully planned out Buying Mancity was never because he loved football, it was a double barrel win for him. He became Internationally known, He appealled instantly to many male football fans in Thailand and winning the vote (just as he does in Issan, and he sold it for over twice his buying price just a year later. His double barrel scheme now is to fly via the UK (ellegedly) then off to the US. If the 2 International powers are accepting him freely into the country, then he suddenly becomes a white knight being unfairly ridiculed by Thailands corrupt former gov. yeah right! Everything he does is a dirty game of chess, with Face and Money as the only spoils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Taksin is and always will be about mental manipulation - his whole strategy is carefully planned out <snipped> He certainly has a lot of people on this forum manipulated. Getting all worked up about someone getting a visa. Samak, I believe, got a visa for medical treatment and he had been convicted of a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlest Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its not about whats is lawfully correct when it comes to the USA and the UK and never has been for Thailand - don't forget laws are made to cdontrol civilians and not for gov leaders Taksin has something to offer them, and it weighs more than what the dems that are no longer in power have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Taksin is and always will be about mental manipulation - his whole strategy is carefully planned out <snipped> He certainly has a lot of people on this forum manipulated. Getting all worked up about someone getting a visa. If you have been through visa application processes, which most of us here i think have, you know how finicky they are on presenting all the right documents and fulfilling an ungodly list of requirements that they can be very anal about. Not that i have a problem with this. I appreciate the need to vet applicants and feel i myself have always been treated fairly. But when examples are presented of people, whomever they may be, getting treated in this vetting process in a different, in a preferential way, why would that not annoy me, and why would you question my right to be annoyed? Because that is what you seem to be doing. I'm not naive. I understand those of power and influence don't need to live by the same standards as everyone else. Doesn't stop me being opposed to that practice and voicing that opposition. And i would suggest it is those who argue in favour of these double standards who are the ones being manipulated here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Taksin is and always will be about mental manipulation - his whole strategy is carefully planned out <snipped> He certainly has a lot of people on this forum manipulated. Getting all worked up about someone getting a visa. Samak, I believe, got a visa for medical treatment and he had been convicted of a crime. His convictions were on appeal when he croaked. Thaksin's conviction was not appealed. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its not just convictions - he also has several charges against him including terrorism and possibly now crimes against humanity. What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. There are certain people who believe that all cases against Thaksin are political. A case has just been filed in the ICC against the 2500+ deaths in the war on drugs. Were they "political"? As Thaksin is a fugitive from his own country - found guilty whilst his brother in law was prime minister and continuing whilst his sister is prime minister - a summons will almost certainly be raised at some stage should the ICC accept the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalPoster Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Its not just convictions - he also has several charges against him including terrorism and possibly now crimes against humanity. What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. There are certain people who believe that all cases against Thaksin are political. A case has just been filed in the ICC against the 2500+ deaths in the war on drugs. Were they "political"? As Thaksin is a fugitive from his own country - found guilty whilst his brother in law was prime minister and continuing whilst his sister is prime minister - a summons will almost certainly be raised at some stage should the ICC accept the case. The ICC application is most certainly political. Do you think that it's a coincidence that the case was filed only after a case was filed against Abhisit over May 2010 crackdown? Edited August 5, 2012 by OriginalPoster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. Outstanding cases against people who have fled from punishment and who refuse to return, should not in my opinion be rewarded as they effectively are, by having those cases stalled and unable to proceed. And it's not like in this case the accused whereabouts are unknown. So set a date for trial and get on with it. If the accused refuses to show in court, give them a one year conviction for that, and add it to the any other punishment... and speaking of other punishment, having your lawyers present court judges with a pastry box full of cash, should be good for another year in jail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalPoster Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. Outstanding cases against people who have fled from punishment and who refuse to return, should not in my opinion be rewarded as they effectively are, by having those cases stalled and unable to proceed. And it's not like in this case the accused whereabouts are unknown. So set a date for trial and get on with it. If the accused refuses to show in court, give them a one year conviction for that, and add it to the any other punishment... and speaking of other punishment, having your lawyers present court judges with a pastry box full of cash, should be good for another year in jail. Doesn't the lack of due process bother your at least a little bit? Common trap for Western liberals is to view this through the prism of Left-Right politics and to become so certain that Thaksin is a right winger that they believe that military coups have legitimacy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted August 5, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) I see Thaksin more in line with a left wing "revolutionary" populist movement centered on a charismatic super leader, a la Chavez's Venezuela. Such movements are cloaked in a patina of democracy rhetoric but deep down are fundamentally anti-democratic. Edited August 5, 2012 by Jingthing 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its not just convictions - he also has several charges against him including terrorism and possibly now crimes against humanity. What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. There are certain people who believe that all cases against Thaksin are political. A case has just been filed in the ICC against the 2500+ deaths in the war on drugs. Were they "political"? As Thaksin is a fugitive from his own country - found guilty whilst his brother in law was prime minister and continuing whilst his sister is prime minister - a summons will almost certainly be raised at some stage should the ICC accept the case. The ICC application is most certainly political. Do you think that it's a coincidence that the case was filed only after a case was filed against Abhisit over May 2010 crackdown? To me, political refers to cases with no substance that are presented merely in an attempt to smear. The conflict of interest case for which Thaksin was convicted, is routinely described as being a politically motivated conviction, and yet there is never any evidence presented to contradict that verdict, there was never an attempt to appeal it, and there has never even been an attempt to deny guilt. With regards the ICC application against Thaksin, if they take up the case (which seems highly unlikely), and come back with a verdict of not guilty, surely that would be the right time to claim it as being political. Same goes for the case against Abhisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I see Thaksin more in line with a left wing "revolutionary" populist movement centered on a charismatic super leader, a la Chavez's Venezuela. Such movements are cloaked in a patina of democracy rhetoric but deep down are fundamentally anti-democratic. I tend to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. Outstanding cases against people who have fled from punishment and who refuse to return, should not in my opinion be rewarded as they effectively are, by having those cases stalled and unable to proceed. And it's not like in this case the accused whereabouts are unknown. So set a date for trial and get on with it. If the accused refuses to show in court, give them a one year conviction for that, and add it to the any other punishment... and speaking of other punishment, having your lawyers present court judges with a pastry box full of cash, should be good for another year in jail. Doesn't the lack of due process bother your at least a little bit? Lack of due process with regards what? His court case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its not just convictions - he also has several charges against him including terrorism and possibly now crimes against humanity. What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. There are certain people who believe that all cases against Thaksin are political. A case has just been filed in the ICC against the 2500+ deaths in the war on drugs. Were they "political"? As Thaksin is a fugitive from his own country - found guilty whilst his brother in law was prime minister and continuing whilst his sister is prime minister - a summons will almost certainly be raised at some stage should the ICC accept the case. The ICC application is most certainly political. Do you think that it's a coincidence that the case was filed only after a case was filed against Abhisit over May 2010 crackdown? No. It's been a long time coming. Have you not read the HR reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What do you mean "possible now" and how should "possibly now" charges be weighed? Should we assume that he is guilty because he might possibly be accused? If you don't like his politics, that's fine, but be honest enough to admit that this is a political case. Outstanding cases against people who have fled from punishment and who refuse to return, should not in my opinion be rewarded as they effectively are, by having those cases stalled and unable to proceed. And it's not like in this case the accused whereabouts are unknown. So set a date for trial and get on with it. If the accused refuses to show in court, give them a one year conviction for that, and add it to the any other punishment... and speaking of other punishment, having your lawyers present court judges with a pastry box full of cash, should be good for another year in jail. Doesn't the lack of due process bother your at least a little bit? Common trap for Western liberals is to view this through the prism of Left-Right politics and to become so certain that Thaksin is a right winger that they believe that military coups have legitimacy. Don't you think the law is there to be followed? If someone commits a crime they get punished regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I see Thaksin more in line with a left wing "revolutionary" populist movement centered on a charismatic super leader, a la Chavez's Venezuela. Such movements are cloaked in a patina of democracy rhetoric but deep down are fundamentally anti-democratic. Splendid post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I see Thaksin more in line with a left wing "revolutionary" populist movement centered on a charismatic super leader, a la Chavez's Venezuela. Such movements are cloaked in a patina of democracy rhetoric but deep down are fundamentally anti-democratic. Splendid post Well, one step up the evolutionary scale for not comparing him to Pol Pot....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttelise Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Okay, throw reasoning out the window. Two weeks in US. Big wow. Who cares. Certainly not enough to lose sleep over or bash US. This seems to be driven more by deep seeded resentment of Thaksin AND US. Haha, Thailand is not much more than a safe haven or refuge for pedophiles, sexual deviants, misfits and criminals on the run from other countries. Thailand looks in the other direction regarding human trafficking and human rights provided corrupted officials get their tea money. How many years did Thailand not only tolerate, but promote, pedophile or sexual exploration of children all in the name of the almighty tourism dollars. People get pushed off balconies and it's a suicide and murders classified as death by unknown, natural causes or suicide. All of this and some of you losing sleep over whether Thaksin can visit the US for two weeks during which times how many pedophiles and sexual deviants will get pretty little Thai Visa stamps in their pass ports. Why should US take a lot of what happens in Thailand seriously? Most Thais don't and most on here think everything done is a joke also. Edited August 5, 2012 by ttelise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) That's a pretty harsh dose of reality for the Walter Mitty types that show up in these threads. It's interesting how paying to get laid in a foreign country and communicating with emoticons is all they need to be an 'international expert.' Edited August 5, 2012 by rijb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system. A 2 year sentence is hardly war crime status and perhaps the US views the conviction a politically motivated injustice that is inconsistent with the want of the majority of Thais. Perhaps US thinks the Yhai court system is a disgrace and lacks due process. Perhaps the US feels that corrupt and hypocritical Thai politicians use the Court system to manipulate the political landscape and Thaksin was simply caught up in this political machinery. Russian, Chinese and Middle Eastern have ordered atrocities yet I bet Rhailand would welcome visits from those leaders with open arms. Thaksin really is not that bad when comparared to leaders from many countries you guys seem to hold in such high regard. America has commtted its fair share of attrocities - Korea, Vietnam, Laos spring to mind. No one bans American leaders - the aid is always welcome, along with the military. American justice is blind when it suits America. Someone clearly believes that Thaksin will come back to Thailand, formerly take control and could be a useful future ally. America supported Noriega, Tito, Mau and Saddam Hussein when it suited, and is adept at seeing "the bigger' picture from an American view point. Issuing a visa to a convicted fugitve is just another example of making the rules up as you go along to suit yourself. Edited August 6, 2012 by Baerboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Okay, throw reasoning out the window. Two weeks in US. Big wow. Who cares. Certainly not enough to lose sleep over or bash US. This seems to be driven more by deep seeded resentment of Thaksin AND US. Haha, Thailand is not much more than a safe haven or refuge for pedophiles, sexual deviants, misfits and criminals on the run from other countries. Thailand looks in the other direction regarding human trafficking and human rights provided corrupted officials get their tea money. How many years did Thailand not only tolerate, but promote, pedophile or sexual exploration of children all in the name of the almighty tourism dollars. People get pushed off balconies and it's a suicide and murders classified as death by unknown, natural causes or suicide. All of this and some of you losing sleep over whether Thaksin can visit the US for two weeks during which times how many pedophiles and sexual deviants will get pretty little Thai Visa stamps in their pass ports. Why should US take a lot of what happens in Thailand seriously? Most Thais don't and most on here think everything done is a joke also. Your jaundiced view of Thailand is presumaly an attempt to justify US political hypocracy. You are entitled to your opinions but their is no linkage between your particular view of Thailand and the fact that America bends it's own rules when it suits. I guess you believe the US can do no wrong, always knows the real truth, and always acts ethically. There's no corruption or crime in the US of course. Don't loose any sleep - and dream on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 What country doesn't bend the rules to serve its own purpose? Yours? Sweet dreams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 What country doesn't bend the rules to serve its own purpose? Yours? Sweet dreams.... True, but the world's policeman does have a tendency to push its views onto others, and then show a clear disdain for the views of others when it breaks its own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'm sure things will be a lot better after China takes over as the world's policeman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carra Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I am sure the american government is privy to more information than we are and have made a decision based on what they know and not what they have red in newspapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckarooBanzai Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The US does not shy away from supporting/installing despicable tyrants when it suits their needs. A long history of this since the end of WWII. I think there will be a major military conflict in this part of the world soon, probably by the end of the decade. T is just the type of guy they usually support. 1+ The visa for T. is the second reward for participating in the" multinational force" in Iraq, providing 423 personnel from 2003 to 2004. The first was G.Walker's closed eyes during T.'s criminal drug war in Thailand. I do not like nor support T. but do get a little peeved at continual US bashers when it seems this guy was a democratically elected president and still supported by an apparent majority of Thais. Take your misplaced anger out where it belongs and get a life while your at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) What a useless headline! How do we know that he is getting ready? Did they discuss in the meeting his choice of finery he'll be taken? Maybe he is a last minute packer... Edited August 6, 2012 by Morakot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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