Accused Child Abuser, 93, Caught Fleeing Into Burma

[Buchholz]

Hypersexuality in dementia patients is very well documented. If no prior history this would seem highly likely.

One would hope that the first thing they do is test the man for dementia (and if positive - which at his age is almost certain), then get him out of this horrific situation.

It may be well documented in some patients, but it was not documented in this case. There is only the accusation and no corroborating evidence.

It is easy to accuse an old man and then to bully him.

If he has dementia, he's hiding it pretty well, as ...

had planned well in advance to flee to Burma, including withdrawing funds from his bank account.

had been living in rented accommodation for a month before Burmese officials doing a check of his documentation found he had entered Burma illegally

Kraus had been teaching English to the village girls, one as young as five, when the alleged abuses began and continued over almost two years.

[bristolgeoff]

i don,t know the man is 93 and also thais will blackmail someone for money off a foreign.if they can get away with it.It is just like the aust girl who cried rape and nothing happened,she was charged and put inside.i think she was trying to get off the charge and be sent home with the help of her father and embassy.is this wrong too that some men were put thru the third degree over nothing because a girl cried wolf

[Beetlejuice]

Born in Germany in 1920's, then fled to Australia after the war. I wonder if the Simon Wiesenthal centre are interested in speaking to him as well.

I was thinking the same thing, wondering what he done during the war?

Surely this 90 odd year old man should be deported back to Germany or Australia and placed into a care home.

[ttelise]

well the police do say they have more than a 100 pictures seized from him with naked kiddies on them and him posing, and lets face it Thai police are not exactly famous for wanting to overwork so the ver fact they bothered to chase him at all indicates something I would guess..... but yes of course give him a fair trail before putting him out of his misery or not.

Playing devils advocate here, who took the photos? Perhaps the ones trying to extort money? Maybe, maybe not. Is this guy even lucid enough to know what's going on. Alzheimer's patients have a tendency to disrobe, act out violently and exhibit bizarre behaviors like wandering off. I had a case once where Alzheimer patient climbed out of laundry room window and was found dead months later in a swamp upright stuck in waist deep mud.

[ttelise]

Also, 93 years old. Seems like there would certainly be some history of being a pedophile for all of these years. Does one just hit 90 and all of sudden become a sexual deviant.

[barefoot1988]

what are the odds of a elderly in his 90s with prostate cancer raping 4 young kids? what are the odds of bib accusing and perhaps blackmailing a rich elderly?

and check out this link

http://www.smh.com.au/national/fears-for-man-91-in-thai-child-sex-case-20110423-1ds44.html#ixzz1KPKWHBr6

and even if a genuine child rapist is involved here, is it right to deny his medical treatment?

<deleted>?

[ttelise]

Hypersexuality in dementia patients is very well documented. If no prior history this would seem highly likely.

One would hope that the first thing they do is test the man for dementia (and if positive - which at his age is almost certain), then get him out of this horrific situation.

It may be well documented in some patients, but it was not documented in this case. There is only the accusation and no corroborating evidence.

It is easy to accuse an old man and then to bully him.

If he has dementia, he's hiding it pretty well, as ...

had planned well in advance to flee to Burma, including withdrawing funds from his bank account.

had been living in rented accommodation for a month before Burmese officials doing a check of his documentation found he had entered Burma illegally

Kraus had been teaching English to the village girls, one as young as five, when the alleged abuses began and continued over almost two years.

According to another article that precedes the above, his bank passport was confiscated and his bank account was wiped out by the Thais. Sad when one gas a difficult time believing what authorities say.

[Beetlejuice]

well the police do say they have more than a 100 pictures seized from him with naked kiddies on them and him posing, and lets face it Thai police are not exactly famous for wanting to overwork so the ver fact they bothered to chase him at all indicates something I would guess..... but yes of course give him a fair trail before putting him out of his misery or not.

Playing devils advocate here, who took the photos? Perhaps the ones trying to extort money? Maybe, maybe not. Is this guy even lucid enough to know what's going on. Alzheimer's patients have a tendency to disrobe, act out violently and exhibit bizarre behaviors like wandering off. I had a case once where Alzheimer patient climbed out of laundry room window and was found dead months later in a swamp upright stuck in waist deep mud.

Excellent point.

There is a chance that the old man was manipulated and being in a confused state of mind, had no idea what he was participating in?

I find it difficult to believe that a frail 93-year-old man would have the strength and the energy to rape. To be blunt, I doubt if this guy could even raise it considering his state of health and age.

I think before we all start pointing the guilty finger at this man, that we should first consider the realities of the situation.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[GentlemanJim]

Just a passing thought. Old man, cash on the hip, alone, has dementia, falls into the clasps of a thieving bar girl. He skips town so she speaks to cousin somchai to try and get him back thinking that he would pay toi stay out of prison.

If he did it,he is scum. However, i don't believe a word the MIB say, or in fact most Thai people. So not quite as open / shut as most people think.

Well that is a lot more reasoned than your first post.

Born in Germany in 1920's, then fled to Australia after the war. I wonder if the Simon Wiesenthal centre are interested in speaking to him as well.

?? So we have gone from an alleged kiddy fiddler to a Nazi War criminal??? Where is the proof that he 'fled' to Australia? How about in his mid 20's with Germany in complete tatters and many of his family dead he decided to emigrate to Australia? I don't think every young soldier in the German army was a war criminal.

Some of the other comments from the hang em high before a trial brigade are in itself a sad reflection on our society.

Isn't it a very straight forward thing for someone with even a basic technical knowledge to establish when exactly any photographs or images were uploaded onto his computer?

Edited August 5, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Buchholz]

If he has dementia, he's hiding it pretty well, as ...

had planned well in advance to flee to Burma, including withdrawing funds from his bank account.

had been living in rented accommodation for a month before Burmese officials doing a check of his documentation found he had entered Burma illegally

Kraus had been teaching English to the village girls, one as young as five, when the alleged abuses began and continued over almost two years.

Replace dementia with 'not lucid' as well as 'Alzheimers' and he's still hiding it very well

well the police do say they have more than a 100 pictures seized from him with naked kiddies on them and him posing, and lets face it Thai police are not exactly famous for wanting to overwork so the ver fact they bothered to chase him at all indicates something I would guess..... but yes of course give him a fair trail before putting him out of his misery or not.

Playing devils advocate here, who took the photos? Perhaps the ones trying to extort money? Maybe, maybe not. Is this guy even lucid enough to know what's going on. Alzheimer's patients have a tendency to disrobe, act out violently and exhibit bizarre behaviors like wandering off. I had a case once where Alzheimer patient climbed out of laundry room window and was found dead months later in a swamp upright stuck in waist deep mud.

[Buchholz]

Also, 93 years old. Seems like there would certainly be some history of being a pedophile for all of these years. Does one just hit 90 and all of sudden become a sexual deviant.

Not usually I would imagine... But I would also think that some pedophiles have committed a lifetime of offenses without ever having a criminal history.

I would think there's quite a few pedophiles who have never been caught.

[Buchholz]

what are the odds of a elderly in his 90s with prostate cancer raping 4 young kids?

He's not accused of rape, he's accused of sexual assault, including a 5 year old.

An elderly man with prostrate cancer can still sexually assault a 5 year old, even if he is incapable of an erection for sexual inercourse.

.

[Buchholz]

There is a chance that the old man was manipulated and being in a confused state of mind, had no idea what he was participating in?

I find it difficult to believe that a frail 93-year-old man would have the strength and the energy to rape. To be blunt, I doubt if this guy could even raise it considering his state of health and age.

I think before we all start pointing the guilty finger at this man, that we should first consider the realities of the situation.

First , we need to understand what he's charged with and understand that his age and health in no way impede his ability to have committed those offenses for which he has been charged with (refer to previous posts just above).

It is said not to point a guilty finger at him, because he's not been found guilty.

It is however to say that he is certainly capable of doing what he is accused of doing.

[Dazzletoad]

Shame on anyone condemning anyone before there is a verdict cast and a guilt put upon this man.

I was excited to see the poster talking about 'hyper sexuality' in dementia patients. Hyper sexuality or at least more frisk in dementia sufferers may be true, but yet as is it in those with downs syndrome, those with hormonal problems, those with nymphomania, those who are deprived of sexual contact for any period of time, and basically any healthy young adult.

Does that therefore mean, we must take a possible disposition to downright vilify this old man, or in this case anyone at all, before we know all the facts, and say he or others are guilty with little more than a report and hype? Well of course not.

Using a possible side effect, of a possible medical condition (I say possible here because of the 'quotes' the police gave), as a way of demonising someone with little other than an accusation and a news story is disgusting.

Back to the brackets, the quotes from the man gave pretty sharp responses to his then current situation. He was saying he wanted to go back to Burma, from where he came. He was asking for an embassy member, demonstrating he was fully aware not only of his situation, but showing he autonomously recognized requiring help, and responded to the circumstance with accurate remarks concerning those who could help him.

Also see the other post by Buchholz, he summarizes nicely.

It is easy to go with the tide, relinquishing ourselves of the responsibility of critical analysis in a time like this, taking mass votes of 'charged therefore guilty' and just going with it, but this is the time we must be vigilant in the condemnation of this man.

I would start by asking only this.

Why should we be condemning an old man when he faced accusations of rape?

Well, I plan to go into medicine, but it doesnt take me, a doctor, or a genius to work out that if a man, of any age over 18, 'raped' a girl of FIVE, that proper medical examination and evaluation of the victim would yield undeniable results.

Rape is forced sexual intercourse, for those unschooled that is the penis inside the vagina, not only touching or fondling. The child would have suffered a torn vagina, there would be pubic hairs left on the child or in the childs clothing, or maybe semen samples that would of course match the old man.

That would be a pretty hard case to deny, if such were true, but as of yet no such case has been put forward, only accusation.

Let us see how this turns out, and let us wish for the old man that he is treat with respect and given the proper means to defend himself instead of allowing bias and other such to strip him of any right that we would all fight to preserve.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Dazzletoad

[chrisinth]

well the police do say they have more than a 100 pictures seized from him with naked kiddies on them and him posing, and lets face it Thai police are not exactly famous for wanting to overwork so the ver fact they bothered to chase him at all indicates something I would guess..... but yes of course give him a fair trail before putting him out of his misery or not.

Playing devils advocate here, who took the photos? Perhaps the ones trying to extort money? Maybe, maybe not. Is this guy even lucid enough to know what's going on. Alzheimer's patients have a tendency to disrobe, act out violently and exhibit bizarre behaviors like wandering off. I had a case once where Alzheimer patient climbed out of laundry room window and was found dead months later in a swamp upright stuck in waist deep mud.

Without trying to flash up the educators amongst us, I think someone may have noticed during his two years teaching if he was lucid enough, let alone having Alzheimers.

Most cameras sold within the last 10 years have self timers. However, it is a very good point.

[Beetlejuice]

Just a passing thought. Old man, cash on the hip, alone, has dementia, falls into the clasps of a thieving bar girl. He skips town so she speaks to cousin somchai to try and get him back thinking that he would pay toi stay out of prison.

If he did it,he is scum. However, i don't believe a word the MIB say, or in fact most Thai people. So not quite as open / shut as most people think.

Well that is a lot more reasoned than your first post.

Born in Germany in 1920's, then fled to Australia after the war. I wonder if the Simon Wiesenthal centre are interested in speaking to him as well.

?? So we have gone from an alleged kiddy fiddler to a Nazi War criminal??? Where is the proof that he 'fled' to Australia? How about in his mid 20's with Germany in complete tatters and many of his family dead he decided to emigrate to Australia? I don't think every young soldier in the German army was a war criminal.

Some of the other comments from the hang em high before a trial brigade are in itself a sad reflection on our society.

Isn't it a very straight forward thing for someone with even a basic technical knowledge to establish when exactly any photographs or images were uploaded onto his computer?

Yes, that`s another good point.

How about, he may be Jewish and escaped out of Germany at the outbreak of WW2? Could be a multitude of reasons.

To be honest, who knows? And what`s the point of speculating at this stage? The chances are there will be no updates regarding this case and we will never know. But if this is a set up, than that`s very sad indeed.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[RichardinBKK]

Shame on anyone condemning anyone before there is a verdict cast and a guilt put upon this man.

I was excited to see the poster talking about 'hyper sexuality' in dementia patients. Hyper sexuality or at least more frisk in dementia sufferers may be true, but yet as is it in those with downs syndrome, those with hormonal problems, those with nymphomania, those who are deprived of sexual contact for any period of time, and basically any healthy young adult.

Does that therefore mean, we must take a possible disposition to downright vilify this old man, or in this case anyone at all, before we know all the facts, and say he or others are guilty with little more than a report and hype? Well of course not.

Using a possible side effect, of a possible medical condition (I say possible here because of the 'quotes' the police gave), as a way of demonising someone with little other than an accusation and a news story is disgusting.

Back to the brackets, the quotes from the man gave pretty sharp responses to his then current situation. He was saying he wanted to go back to Burma, from where he came. He was asking for an embassy member, demonstrating he was fully aware not only of his situation, but showing he autonomously recognized requiring help, and responded to the circumstance with accurate remarks concerning those who could help him.

Also see the other post by Buchholz, he summarizes nicely.

It is easy to go with the tide, relinquishing ourselves of the responsibility of critical analysis in a time like this, taking mass votes of 'charged therefore guilty' and just going with it, but this is the time we must be vigilant in the condemnation of this man.

I would start by asking only this.

Why should we be condemning an old man when he faced accusations of rape?

Well, I plan to go into medicine, but it doesnt take me, a doctor, or a genius to work out that if a man, of any age over 18, 'raped' a girl of FIVE, that proper medical examination and evaluation of the victim would yield undeniable results.

Rape is forced sexual intercourse, for those unschooled that is the penis inside the vagina, not only touching or fondling. The child would have suffered a torn vagina, there would be pubic hairs left on the child or in the childs clothing, or maybe semen samples that would of course match the old man.

That would be a pretty hard case to deny, if such were true, but as of yet no such case has been put forward, only accusation.

Let us see how this turns out, and let us wish for the old man that he is treat with respect and given the proper means to defend himself instead of allowing bias and other such to strip him of any right that we would all fight to preserve.

I hope we can all exercise this type of measured response when a Thai is accused of a crime...hold on...this is Thai Visa...what am I thinking?

[hgma]

I state again, this time without the invective, that the 'hang 'em high' brigade would seem to have major issues of their own...which I find disgusting.

All that needs to be said , you said it.

[ttelise]

I state again, this time without the invective, that the 'hang 'em high' brigade would seem to have major issues of their own...which I find disgusting.

All that needs to be said , you said it.

Haha, is it so hard to accept the possibility of Thai corruption and extortion or does that never happen in Thailand. I will admit prejudice. If this story happened in US, I would not question it as it is very unlikely to get both extortion and police cover up and extortion of their own. Old dude did report in prior article that the cops extorted 450,000 baht from him and then took his bank book and wiped out his bank account.

May all be malarky and perhaps dude did it an no one took his money. Just sad stateoif affairs when people like us reading this stuff have doubts about the integrity and veracity of the Thai authorities. No one to blame but themselves.

[oops]

93 and still thinking about sex...wow. Most people I know back home at 93 are either dead or in line for a casket and if they could get a hard-on it would only be used as a kick-stand so as not to roll over on their face and suffercate. For me, I was seriously hoping that at some point women actually stop having that hold on me. That means I have to fight my sexual desires till the day I die.... Gods cruel joke on man, to make us think he had the upper hand on women, so we gave them the right to vote, now we are considered perverds and sex offenders if your caught even smiling at someone younger than you.

Now I have just learned that "as men" we still want sex way into our 90's Jesus! can't you give us a break? Guess that's why he made those

"real time dolls" can't wait to hear them out law those dolls or some women files assualt charges against her husband for raping an under age Real Time Doll, Yes! and don't think for a minute that the feminist groups won't get involved, they will say they are speaking on behalf of the doll because she can't speak for herself..LOL For those of you who don't know look up on the internet...they do look real.

Funny thing is....I was at a food store once and this old man was sitting out front with a shitty grin on his face looking at me, " I thought to myself this guys is sick" he should go home. I thought that because he was very skinny and frail. While starring at him he said whats your name son? Followed my I am 98 years old with a laugh. Now I know why he was laughing..it was because he knew what I was thinking yet he felt no need to tell me " you stupid shitt you never stop wanting " guess that explains why the 80 year olds are here as well.

I guess we can blame it all on Viagra : )

[balo]

Anyone that can check this old mans past?

What we know is that he was borned in 1919 , possibly in Berlin. So he must have been 21 years old in 1940 .

What did he do during the war? When did he flee to Australia ? Is Karl Krauss his real name? And what is the secret to a long life ?

So many questions , so few answers.

Edited August 5, 2012 by balo

[TerraPosse]

Also, 93 years old. Seems like there would certainly be some history of being a pedophile for all of these years. Does one just hit 90 and all of sudden become a sexual deviant.

Not usually I would imagine... But I would also think that some pedophiles have committed a lifetime of offenses without ever having a criminal history.

I would think there's quite a few pedophiles who have never been caught.

You mean he may have been a man of the cloth? Whoddathought...

[barefoot1988]

what are the odds of a elderly in his 90s with prostate cancer raping 4 young kids?

He's not accused of rape, he's accused of sexual assault, including a 5 year old.

An elderly man with prostrate cancer can still sexually assault a 5 year old, even if he is incapable of an erection for sexual inercourse.

.

"A 93-year-old Australian man attempted to escape charges that he raped four young Thai sisters by fleeing illegally into Burma, Thai police say."

"Looking frail and dishevelled, Mr Kraus pleaded to be returned to Burma where he had been staying illegally for about a month after skipping bail on Thai charges of rape and sexual abuse."

if he is not accused of raping, why is he facing charges of rape? to be fair enough, i re read the article and no hint of raping act is being mentioned. im confused by the article. is it the article or the thai authorities that is confusing? or is the the translation that get lost somewhere along the line?

and again, if there isnt charges for raping, what are the odds of a 90 year old man going around touching kids and the odds of corrupted authorities? you count yours and i count mine. i am still reluctant to believe he did that act but if he did, he deserve everything he gets

[namoi]

as i posted previously that has been deleted (must of been to straight up and down, naughty boy that i am), the police did say " any form of penentration is considerd rape", read it how you like, hmmm

[Pseudolus]

All I know is that I would trust the word of a 93 years old Aussie of German descent with dementia over the word of any thai copper / judge / lawyer / well let's be honest... Thai.

He states that when the alleged events happened he was in another continent. Easy to check and I hope the Australia embassy is.

He states that when he was arrested, the police emptied his bank accounts. Again, easy to check - hard to get to an ATM when you are in a Thai cell.

This whole story stinks

Edited August 6, 2012 by Pseudolus

[GentlemanJim]

Anyone that can check this old mans past?

What we know is that he was borned in 1919 , possibly in Berlin. So he must have been 21 years old in 1940 .

What did he do during the war? When did he flee to Australia ? Is Karl Krauss his real name? And what is the secret to a long life ?

So many questions , so few answers.

You have got to be taking the pi** !

How did you arrive at the 'possibly born in Berlin bit"? Have you any idea how big Germany actually is? It's like saying any person from France was possibly born in Paris, or anyone from the US was possibly born in New York

Why are you interested in him when he was 21? Do you know when the war finished?

Who said that he did 'flee' to Australia?

More like 'so many bolleux questions and so many answers that are non of your business.

Edited August 6, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Scott]

Please stick to the topic. Enough speculation on his Pre WWII life.

[softgeorge]

I am Australian yet I have ZERO sympathy for this man.

+ 1

[freebyrd]

I have been a member here for a few years and have made but a few comments in that time. Seeing some of the negative and nasty things that are written here about people you don't know and who should still be innocent until proven guilty, is sad to say the least, and I feel compelled to say a few words.

I spent two decades in the army giving soldiers a hard time to keep them fit, and at times was a real b@#@#@d to trainees but even then I knew that it's a lot easier to condemn than it is to sit and listen. It seems to me that many of those casting barbs in reference to this and other subjects on Thai Visa, have too much time on their hands, can only see the bad in people and perhaps spent their childhoods pulling the legs off of spiders.

If those same critics find themselves floundering for help in a similar situation, I would hope that the world will treat them more kindly, if they make it to their 90's that is. That said, seeing so many juvenille comments here regarding abstaining from drinking beer for a couple of days and the like, I doubt many will make it anywhere near. In the mob, during a 'conflict' my colleagues and I had to live on saved scraps for 5 days out of neccessity, so I would encourage detractors to put things into much clearer perspective before commenting about locking up an old man and throwing away the keys.

If the accused is found to be of sound mind and is indeed guilty, then I will be the first to applaud appropriate punishment for the crime.

[Morakot]

Born in Germany in 1920's, then fled to Australia after the war. I wonder if the Simon Wiesenthal centre are interested in speaking to him as well.

Hear, hear! The Court of Thaivisa has amended the indictment.