Double Pricing!

[rgs2001uk]

In most civilsed countries you would be up before the human rights tribunial for such discriminatory actions. Thailand has a long way to go before we are all treated like equals.

I think we've dissected this over and over in this thread, but your comment begs the question - why do you chose to live in such an uncivilised country? You've been here for 20 years and these things still upset you - and yet you chose to stay.

What tickles me more is, why the need to tell the GF to tell the staff he has lived here for 20 years.

Anyone who has lived here for 20 years as claimed and cant string a sentence together in Thai of no more than twelve words that says, I am not a tourist I have lived her for 20 years deserves to be treated as a tourist.

[Ling Kae]

In most civilsed countries you would be up before the human rights tribunial for such discriminatory actions. Thailand has a long way to go before we are all treated like equals.

I think we've dissected this over and over in this thread, but your comment begs the question - why do you chose to live in such an uncivilised country? You've been here for 20 years and these things still upset you - and yet you chose to stay.

Because the good things about Thailand out weigh the bad, simple as that.

[Ling Kae]

I simply don't go to any place that charges higher prices for farangs. Last year I went to Nong Nooch, they wanted to charge me up for farang prices, I told my girlfriend to flash my drivers license and to tell them I am a local here for 20 years. It worked, I got the Thai price however this does not work all the time especially at national Parks. A few years back I went to that Katoy show on second road, again, double pricing, I had to pay but I will never advise anyone to go there because of that, same for Koh Samet or anywhere that does this, it is blatent discrimination.

In most civilsed countries you would be up before the human rights tribunial for such discriminatory actions. Thailand has a long way to go before we are all treated like equals.

So what you are saying is.... if they don't give you any discount from the standard advertised price - you spit your dummy out?

No, what I am saying is that I wish be treated as an equal. If a Thai gets in at a 100 baht then I want to get in at 100 baht, it's not really that hard to understand is it.

[Ling Kae]

In most civilsed countries you would be up before the human rights tribunial for such discriminatory actions. Thailand has a long way to go before we are all treated like equals.

I think we've dissected this over and over in this thread, but your comment begs the question - why do you chose to live in such an uncivilised country? You've been here for 20 years and these things still upset you - and yet you chose to stay.

What tickles me more is, why the need to tell the GF to tell the staff he has lived here for 20 years.

Anyone who has lived here for 20 years as claimed and cant string a sentence together in Thai of no more than twelve words that says, I am not a tourist I have lived her for 20 years deserves to be treated as a tourist.

She has a louder mouth than me and can get quite upset when certain "officials" try to rip us off. It is better for a Thai to argue with a Thai than a farang argue with a Thai, don't you think? It works for me anyway.

[LennyW]

I simply don't go to any place that charges higher prices for farangs. Last year I went to Nong Nooch, they wanted to charge me up for farang prices, I told my girlfriend to flash my drivers license and to tell them I am a local here for 20 years. It worked, I got the Thai price however this does not work all the time especially at national Parks. A few years back I went to that Katoy show on second road, again, double pricing, I had to pay but I will never advise anyone to go there because of that, same for Koh Samet or anywhere that does this, it is blatent discrimination.

In most civilsed countries you would be up before the human rights tribunial for such discriminatory actions. Thailand has a long way to go before we are all treated like equals.

So what you are saying is.... if they don't give you any discount from the standard advertised price - you spit your dummy out?

No, what I am saying is that I wish be treated as an equal. If a Thai gets in at a 100 baht then I want to get in at 100 baht, it's not really that hard to understand is it.

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

[Jingthing]

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

So the many millions of much better off Thais don't get the discount, is that it?

[brit1984]

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

So the many millions of much better off Thais don't get the discount, is that it?

Are you saying discounts for students / children / OAPs are unfair because some could afford to pay full price?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[tropo]

I think we've dissected this over and over in this thread, but your comment begs the question - why do you chose to live in such an uncivilised country? You've been here for 20 years and these things still upset you - and yet you chose to stay.

Because the good things about Thailand out weigh the bad, simple as that.

It's better you get over the fact that there is no utopia on earth where everyone is treated exactly equal... then you can enjoy your next 20 years here even more.

Where is this "civilized country" you speak of which treats everyone equal?

Edited August 15, 2012 by tropo

[LennyW]

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

So the many millions of much better off Thais don't get the discount, is that it?

Where did you hear that? I have never heard of any Thai nationals not getting the discounted Thai price. Ling Kae was "wishing to be treated as an equal" i was simply questioning if he really would.

[Ling Kae]

I simply don't go to any place that charges higher prices for farangs. Last year I went to Nong Nooch, they wanted to charge me up for farang prices, I told my girlfriend to flash my drivers license and to tell them I am a local here for 20 years. It worked, I got the Thai price however this does not work all the time especially at national Parks. A few years back I went to that Katoy show on second road, again, double pricing, I had to pay but I will never advise anyone to go there because of that, same for Koh Samet or anywhere that does this, it is blatent discrimination.

In most civilsed countries you would be up before the human rights tribunial for such discriminatory actions. Thailand has a long way to go before we are all treated like equals.

So what you are saying is.... if they don't give you any discount from the standard advertised price - you spit your dummy out?

No, what I am saying is that I wish be treated as an equal. If a Thai gets in at a 100 baht then I want to get in at 100 baht, it's not really that hard to understand is it.

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

There is no such thing as a discounted price. There is a Thai price and then everybody else who isn't Thai pays more. That is wrong. I recently did a trip to the UK, there was no such thing as double pricing. For example the Tower of London is the same price for everybody. Does it matter who works where and for what? No, there is a price, one price for everybody. I always put this to a Thai, "How would you like it if you went overseas and you had to pay double just because you are Thai"? I have never heard one Thai say that would be a good idea, most are actually discusted by the thought of it.

[Ling Kae]

I think we've dissected this over and over in this thread, but your comment begs the question - why do you chose to live in such an uncivilised country? You've been here for 20 years and these things still upset you - and yet you chose to stay.

Because the good things about Thailand out weigh the bad, simple as that.

It's better you get over the fact that there is no utopia on earth where everyone is treated exactly equal... then you can enjoy your next 20 years here even more.

Where is this "civilized country" you speak of which treats everyone equal?

Tropo, you are right there is no utopia, I have already got over the inequality of Thailand my own ways. I just don't participate in anything that has unfair and unjust "just because you are a farang" pricing. I'm actually pretty happy here, no where is perfect. I could add more but like you say it's best to enjoy my next 20 years even more, cheers.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Ling Kae

[Jingthing]

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

So the many millions of much better off Thais don't get the discount, is that it?

Are you saying discounts for students / children / OAPs are unfair because some could afford to pay full price?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

No, are you saying that? I am saying race based double pricing is morally and ethically wrong, no matter what.

[tropo]

There is no such thing as a discounted price. There is a Thai price and then everybody else who isn't Thai pays more. That is wrong. I recently did a trip to the UK, there was no such thing as double pricing. For example the Tower of London is the same price for everybody. Does it matter who works where and for what? No, there is a price, one price for everybody. I always put this to a Thai, "How would you like it if you went overseas and you had to pay double just because you are Thai"? I have never heard one Thai say that would be a good idea, most are actually discusted by the thought of it.

There's no discounts for students, children and OAPs at the Tower of London? I find that hard to believe.

In Australia OAPs, children, students AND unemployed get many things cheaper, even medicine and health care. Is that fair, that people with more spending power should pay more?

....But can we really compare one of the most civilized nations on earth (GB) with Thailand. Just think what GB had to go through to become the model of civilized nations. It takes time. Thailand has a very homogeneous population compared to most civilized nations, so Thai-spotting is so much easier.

[Ling Kae]

[ I am saying race based double pricing is morally and ethically wrong, no matter what.

And that is exactly the problem. Let's say a car with 4 occupants turn up to the National Parks gates, the Thai driver says "see kohn" the attendant looks in the car and observes that all occupants look like and assumes all are Thai. All are granted entry at 40 baht each, (total 160 baht). But wait, one was a Philippino but he looked Thai, no questions asked "see Knon" 160 baht.

Now the same car turns up, 4 inside, 1 big farang in the back (a person of definite caucasian appearance), the 3 others are Thai. Thai driver says "see Khon" attendant looks in the car and says "farang jai see roi baht". Because of that the entry fee jumps to 520 baht for that group.

That is a blatent rip off and an unjust race based system.

[tropo]

[ I am saying race based double pricing is morally and ethically wrong, no matter what.

And that is exactly the problem. Let's say a car with 4 occupants turn up to the National Parks gates, the Thai driver says "see kohn" the attendant looks in the car and observes that all occupants look like and assumes all are Thai. All are granted entry at 40 baht each, (total 160 baht). But wait, one was a Philippino but he looked Thai, no questions asked "see Knon" 160 baht.

Now the same car turns up, 4 inside, 1 big farang in the back (a person of definite caucasian appearance), the 3 others are Thai. Thai driver says "see Khon" attendant looks in the car and says "farang jai see roi baht". Because of that the entry fee jumps to 520 baht for that group.

That is a blatent rip off and an unjust race based system.

Let's say the car with the Thais and a Filipino was actually a car with 4 Filipinos and they spoke English. What then? They would all pay the non-Thai rate. Nothing to do with race as Filipinos and Thais are the same race.

So many of you love to wave this race card around. Thai vs non-Thai is not racism.

My Filipino wife knows this well. If she opens her mouth at the markets she pays more. Racism? No way.

[Ling Kae]

My Filipino wife knows this well. If she opens her mouth at the markets she pays more. Racism? No way.

Do you think that is right? I certainly don't.

I will repeat what I said before:

I always put this to a Thai, "How would you like it if you went overseas and you had to pay double just because you are Thai"? I have never heard one Thai say that would be a good idea, most are actually discusted by the thought of it.

[Ling Kae]

There's no discounts for students, children and OAPs at the Tower of London? I find that hard to believe.

We are not arguing discounts for everybody as the above. Every country has discounts for students and OAP's. What we are discussing is the fact that if you are Thai or look Thai you will get the Thai price, If you are a farang you will be hit up sometimes 10 x more than Thais. That is an unjust, unfair system.

[brit1984]

Double-pricing happens in the West too... look at UK universities for example... how is that any different to national parks in Thailand?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[tropo]

My Filipino wife knows this well. If she opens her mouth at the markets she pays more. Racism? No way.

Do you think that is right? I certainly don't.

I will repeat what I said before:

I always put this to a Thai, "How would you like it if you went overseas and you had to pay double just because you are Thai"? I have never heard one Thai say that would be a good idea, most are actually discusted by the thought of it.

I don't run around Thailand, a home I've adopted, worrying about the morality of things that be. They are what they are. "Right" and "wrong" are not absolute concepts and based on personal belief. Let's leave that "job" for the missionaries.

You said it was racism. I'm demonstrating in a practical way that it isn't. It's quite comical to hear a bunch of white boys (excuse my assumption if you're not) screaming "racist", "racism".

Edited August 15, 2012 by tropo

[brit1984]

What I don't understand is why you would expect the discounted Thai price if you are not indeed a Thai citizen.

Would you accept 200 Baht a day for working out in the hot sun up to your knees in rice paddy day in day out? or are you going to tell me "but that is different".

So the many millions of much better off Thais don't get the discount, is that it?

Are you saying discounts for students / children / OAPs are unfair because some could afford to pay full price?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

No, are you saying that? I am saying race based double pricing is morally and ethically wrong, no matter what.

Maybe (at least in a theoretical utopia where all races have equal opportunities and wealth).

Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality.

As the discounts are for groups with lower average spending power, that is fair (and economically efficient).

Obviously, if all visitors to the national park were forced to disclose their assets, liabilities, income and fixed costs, a uniquely appropriate entrance fee could be determined. The fixed discount for locals is more practical though.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[LennyW]

[ I am saying race based double pricing is morally and ethically wrong, no matter what.

And that is exactly the problem. Let's say a car with 4 occupants turn up to the National Parks gates, the Thai driver says "see kohn" the attendant looks in the car and observes that all occupants look like and assumes all are Thai. All are granted entry at 40 baht each, (total 160 baht). But wait, one was a Philippino but he looked Thai, no questions asked "see Knon" 160 baht.

Now the same car turns up, 4 inside, 1 big farang in the back (a person of definite caucasian appearance), the 3 others are Thai. Thai driver says "see Khon" attendant looks in the car and says "farang jai see roi baht". Because of that the entry fee jumps to 520 baht for that group.

That is a blatent rip off and an unjust race based system.

But.... if the "big farang" in the back produced a Thai driving licence or a WP, 99 times out of 100 he will get the discounted Thai price instead of the standard price, thereby blowing your racisim theory out the window, producing those documents does not change the colour of your skin or where you come from!.

[brit1984]

Just by way of a quick economics lesson, it does not necessarily follow that stopping price discrimination would imply everyone pays the lower price. Rather, the new optimal price point (where price * volume = the maximum revenue) is actually likely to be higher than the discounted price previously being charged to the low income group. Moreover, economic theory tells us that the overall revenue earned will be reduced.

Hence, in the National Park example we have been discussing, if dual-pricing was forbidden (maybe following new laws passed by the government in response to a protest by the Miserable-Foreigners-in-Thailand-Society) the entrance fee for Thais would likely be increased (restricting access to the attraction for the poor) and revenue would be reduced (leading to a lower budget for the park to pay its staff and maintain the park).

I was going to add the caveat that at least the Moaning-Mandys would have one less thing to complain about... but then I remembered such people would simply distort another aspect of reality in their minds to feed their victim complex condition.

[tropo]

Just by way of a quick economics lesson, it does not necessarily follow that stopping price discrimination would imply everyone pays the lower price. Rather, the new optimal price point (where price * volume = the maximum revenue) is actually likely to be higher than the discounted price previously being charged to the low income group. Moreover, economic theory tells us that the overall revenue earned will be reduced.

Hence, in the National Park example we have been discussing, if dual-pricing was forbidden (maybe following new laws passed by the government in response to a protest by the Miserable-Foreigners-in-Thailand-Society) the entrance fee for Thais would likely be increased (restricting access to the attraction for the poor) and revenue would be reduced (leading to a lower budget for the park to pay its staff and maintain the park).

I was going to add the caveat that at least the Moaning-Mandys would have one less thing to complain about... but then I remembered such people would simply distort another aspect of reality in their minds to feed their victim complex condition.

As I suggested earlier, some of these parks, and in particular parks in tourist areas were probably developed with the foreigner price forming the basis for their construction and operation budget. If everyone received the cheap entrance price some of these parks may never have been built and we wouldn't have any complaints at all.

[Ling Kae]

OK, my last comment on the subject.

If you think it is ok to be discrimated again based on your appearance then go ahead pay the blown out prices, I DON'T CARE!

If you think it ok to be treated differently to the majority of the population then go ahead and PAY THE MARKED UP PRICES!

If you think it ok to pay tripple or 10 fold the Thai prices to enter a National Park in Thailand, THEN GO AHEAD AND PAY IT!

If this happened in your home country there would be an outcry, why do we put up with it here but fight for equal rights in our home country? Oh yes, it is different here. Some of you people are so blinded, you think it is ok to pay up to 10 x more, up to you, but you know and I know it is wrong.

Finally, how would you like your tirak to be charged upwards in your country just because she or he is Asian?

It is WRONG WRONG and an unjust unfair system.

Now I've said my piece I'm going to enjoy my next 20 years, who cares about the tossers than are happy to double, tripple or 10 x more than Thais do, UP TO YOU! I certainly don't pay it anymore, i'd rather drink leo and talk bs to the somtam lady anyway.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Ling Kae

[tropo]

OK, my last comment on the subject.

If you think it is ok to be discrimated again based on your appearance then go ahead pay the blown out prices, I DON'T CARE!

If you think it ok to be treated differently to the majority of the population then go ahead and PAY THE MARKED UP PRICES!

If you think it ok to pay tripple or 10 fold the Thai prices to enter a National Park in Thailand, THEN GO AHEAD AND PAY IT!

If this happened in your home country there would be an outcry, why do we put up with it here but fight for equal rights in our home country? Oh yes, it is different here. Some of you people are so blinded, you think it is ok to pay up to 10 x more, up to you, but you know and I know it is wrong.

Finally, how would you like your tirak to be charged upwards in your country just because she or he is Asian?

It is WRONG WRONG and an unjust unfair system.

Now I've said my piece I'm going to enjoy my next 20 years, who cares about the tossers than are happy to double, tripple or 10 x more than Thais do, UP TO YOU! I certainly don't pay it anymore, i'd rather drink leo and talk bs to the somtam lady anyway.

Your posts are heavy on words such as "right", "wrong", "just", "ethical", "moral", "fair", "unfair".

You're sounding like a missionary preaching the gospel. I feel like I'm back in church.

None of these words have absolute meaning.

Rather than saying something is "right" or "wrong", just say you like it or you don't. We'll decide based on our individual beliefs what is "right" and what is "wrong".

Edited August 15, 2012 by tropo

[brit1984]

@ Ling Kae

As already explained, dual-pricing does happen in all other countries (except maybe North Korea) and, as also explained, there are very solid (economic and moral) justifications for such systems.

As you suggest, I will continue to happily pay the full prices where applicable, and you can continue to forego consumption of goods and services (even if they would satisfy your wants and needs) for the sake of a few baht.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[55Jay]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

[tropo]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

Yeah, that's terrible - trying to profit from tourists.

[rinteln]

"Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality."

Sorry that just simply isnt true. As I mentioned before in the thread I know of many examples where non Thai nationals/non residents pay Thai prices without any stress or checks at all and have done for years. Anything from vegetables at a market stall through to the Grand Palace in BKK. My freind here who is Singaporean has always paid Thai prices because he looks Thai and speaks it. My best freind's girlfreind is from Loas. She lives here as a Thai. Infact when they go somewhere he pays the farang price and she walks in as though she is Thai. My wife's freind is also from Loas, has never paid a farang price in her life and actually refers to herself as Thai and we are the foreigners. The only difference between her and a Thai is she goes for visa runs. I was speaking to another guy here who is a Chinese Malaysian, he looks and speaks Thai. Again same story, lived in Hat Yai for years, even worked....lol. Even worked driving a tuk tuk (illegally of course). Never paid more for anything............why (sorry if it seems im trying to ram this home) BECAUSE HE LOOKS THAI. Not because he flashed a Thai ID card everyday or showed a residency card or form but because he looks the part. If I started driving a tuk tuk around Hat Yai how long would I last before being locked up and paying huge somes of money, i reckon 1 hour. He drove a tuk tuk in Hat Yai for 3 years before he left for Malaysia again. My point is he was regarded as a Thai because he looked like it and thus treated the same.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months in Pattaya, second road. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 10 baht....I didnt care about the 10 baht but all that time they had been charging me more for food. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not....lol. Why did I pay more.......(again I am sorry) BECAUSE I AM WHITE. There are other examples and I could go on. If double charging was on residency then these examples would not exist, simple as that for me.

Some tasks I do around Pattaya I generally ask my wife to do it because of this double pricing based on race. For example we have had two punctures on the motorbike recently. The first one I took to repair, 200 baht. 2 weeks later my wife went to do the second one in the same shop 150 baht. Do you think they stood there and asked for my work permit to prove I am not a tourist.....lol.....they dont care. Ofcourse not, it was by instinct that they related my race to wealth and a certain status and thus the increased price. Same when I go to the market, I tell my wife what we need and she buys it. I have tested it, we save over 200 baht on a market run if she shops and not me.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 5 baht....I didnt care about the 5 baht but all that time they had been charging me more. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not. Why did she pay less.... I could reel off so many other examples and I am sure others could.

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

To me the principle, point and question of this whole thread is BY INSTINCT do Thai people want to charge western looking people more for things because there is a status and wealth attached to their race. I think the answer is yes. In any half decent country would this be racism...in my opinion..yes !! Even if not racism then at the very least the practice would be regarded as unethical and not encouraged.

Edited August 16, 2012 by rinteln

[LennyW]

OK, my last comment on the subject.

If you think it is ok to be discrimated again based on your appearance then go ahead pay the blown out prices, I DON'T CARE!

If you think it ok to be treated differently to the majority of the population then go ahead and PAY THE MARKED UP PRICES!

If you think it ok to pay tripple or 10 fold the Thai prices to enter a National Park in Thailand, THEN GO AHEAD AND PAY IT!

If this happened in your home country there would be an outcry, why do we put up with it here but fight for equal rights in our home country? Oh yes, it is different here. Some of you people are so blinded, you think it is ok to pay up to 10 x more, up to you, but you know and I know it is wrong.

Finally, how would you like your tirak to be charged upwards in your country just because she or he is Asian?

It is WRONG WRONG and an unjust unfair system.

Now I've said my piece I'm going to enjoy my next 20 years, who cares about the tossers than are happy to double, tripple or 10 x more than Thais do, UP TO YOU! I certainly don't pay it anymore, i'd rather drink leo and talk bs to the somtam lady anyway.

.....And a shower of toys got tossed out of the pram!!