New Requirements For Non Native English Speakers

sirchai · August 8, 2012

Just found the new regulations regarding documents needed to obtain a work permit. It seems that all Nonnative English speakers have to take the TOEIC test, before they can even apply for a Non-B visa.

The new regulations were made in February this year. They were not implanted in May when we all renewed our visas and work permits.But we all know that time's a little different to other countries in LOS.

What if Nonnative English speakers are already on their third waiver, will they receive a fourth waiver, or is it necessary to have a degree in education? I checked my status at TCT’s website and I’m good to go until August 2013.

But it seems to me that I’ll have to make the TOEIC test before May next year, to be on the safe side.

I’ve got the Thai culture course where we’ve learned the difference between Somtham Laos and Thai style and other very useful knowledge.

Guess regulations regarding having syphilis and what not didn't change and the DOL wants to see the "usual" proof.

An online degree in education might still be a possible option, depending on my financial situation.

I guess TV specialists like Scott do know more about the new requirements; any advice would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks for any input. -----

New requirements for provisional teaching permit_Eng.pdf

aidenai · August 8, 2012

You thread title is misleading. The requirements for the provisional teaching permit from The Teachers' Council of Thailand are for all foreign teachers. Introduced on 3 April 2012 and retroactive since 1 February 2012. However, for nationals of other countries than the UK, USA, CDN, AUS and NZ it also means having a TOEIC certificate.

Since 3 April 2012 these new requirements have been discussed more than once on Thai Visa. Search around.

What if Nonnative English speakers are already on their third waiver, will they receive a fourth waiver, or is it necessary to have a degree in education? I checked my status at TCT’s website and I’m good to go until August 2013.
But it seems to me that I’ll have to make the TOEIC test before May next year, to be on the safe side.

The requirements state an initial provisional teaching permit and a second provisional teaching permit. No mentioning of a third provisional teaching permit. I guess there is no third provisional teaching permit for teachers who are currently registered in the TCT's provisional teaching permit/ teacher license database with a second provisional teaching permit.

The rules apply to all foreign teachers.

Guess regulations regarding having syphilis and what not didn't change and the DOL wants to see the "usual" proof.

You're mixing things up. That's a requirement from the Ministry of Labour, Department of Employment, Office of the Foreign Workers Administration.

An online degree in education might still be a possible option, depending on my financial situation.

Are there any? Having a degree in education is not the only route to a TCT teacher license. Read "Routes to a teacher license" from The Teachers' Council of Thailand

It might be good to have a look into the next documents to understand their relation with the provisional teaching permit/ teacher license from The Teachers' Council of Thailand..

Police Order Immigration 777/ 2551
Police Order Immigration 305/ 2551
WP.1 and WP.5 of The Ministry of Labour

Edited August 8, 2012 by aidenai

Scott · August 8, 2012

Thanks, Sirchai, but I am far from an expert! I only know what happens in my little corner of the world and from the posts on this forum, that is quite a bit different than in other corners of the Kingdom, and a lot of them are very different from what is written in the law.

With regard to the TOEIC, all our non-native speakers have had to take it (or some other English language proficiency exam) for many years now.

Some time ago, there was a thread that discussed the waivers. As I understand it, there are people now on their 3rd and 4th waivers. If you are continuing to work toward compliance, then you will continue to get the provisional license--as I understand it. Otherwise, we have teachers at our school who should be seeing the backside of the door. A couple of them are attending University--one in person and one on-line and they continue to get approval.

I don't know the exact mechanics, but I know the visa girl at the school sends their stuff off to the Teacher's Council and someone approves something.

aidenai · August 8, 2012

As I understand it, there are people now on their 3rd and 4th waivers.

What counts is how many provisional teaching permits are registered in the TCT's database. http://www.ksp.or.th...ense_search.php

If you are continuing to work toward compliance, then you will continue to get the provisional license--as I understand it.

I doubt that.

Scott · August 8, 2012

You may be correct. I had stated the same thing on a thread some time back (can't find it now) and was told it was incorrect.

aidenai · August 8, 2012

You may be correct. I had stated the same thing on a thread some time back (can't find it now) and was told it was incorrect.

People are saying a lot of different things. For example:

it's my third provisional teaching permit but there's only one in the database
when you change schools every two years you'll be only registered as holding a first provisional teaching permit
when you continue meeting the TCT requirements, you continue to get new provisional teaching permits

Unfortunately, the truth lays in the future.

I keep to mind that in the requirements for the provisional teaching permit there are no provisions for a third provisional teaching permit. If there are only two, it'll give a teacher four to five years to meet all TCT requirements. In those four to five years the teacher can do the culture course and sit the TCT Professional Knowledge Tests eight times at max, provided that the teacher doesn't hold a BA Ed, Grad.Dip.Ed or equivalent. To be honest, I truly think that in 2013/ 2014 (2556/ 2557) this time bomb will explode unless the TCT rules will be waived but that is what many already were predicting in 2006 and 2007. It didn't happen until now.

Changing schools might not always help. According to reports, It did for some, I admit. Below is a screen shot of a teacher with 3 provisional teaching permit in three different places and at three different schools.

Again, the truth lays in the future.

sirchai · August 10, 2012

I truly believe that a school director with the right connections to the TCT can make impossible things possible.

We had an English guy last year without a degree, waiting for our waiver for three months already.

He called his "friend" and our documents were sent within three working days.

Seems to me it's not just about to know who you are, it also comes back to who you know........ .

aidenai · August 10, 2012

I truly believe that a school director with the right connections to the TCT can make impossible things possible.

We had an English guy last year without a degree, waiting for our waiver for three months already.

He called his "friend" and our documents were sent within three working days.

Seems to me it's not just about to know who you are, it also comes back to who you know........ .

I can confirm this from own experience.

However, in advising other members one has to stick to the "official" rules.

Edited August 10, 2012 by aidenai

KhaoNiaw · August 10, 2012

What TOEIC score are non-native English teachers required to get?

sirchai · August 10, 2012

What TOEIC score are non-native English teachers required to get?

Please feel free to read more about it...... .

TOEIC_LR_examinee_handbook.pdf

KhaoNiaw · August 10, 2012

What TOEIC score are non-native English teachers required to get?

Please feel free to read more about it...... .

I don't get your point? I know the test fairly well but I'm just wondering what score non-natives are required to get to be able to teach.

aidenai · August 10, 2012

What TOEIC score are non-native English teachers required to get?

Please feel free to read more about it...... .

I don't get your point? I know the test fairly well but I'm just wondering what score non-natives are required to get to be able to teach.

No minimum scores in the rules from The teachers' Council of Thailand. They do mention a passing rate.

Funny as TOEIC doesn't recognise a pass or fail.

KhaoNiaw · August 10, 2012

No minimum scores in the rules from The teachers' Council of Thailand. They do mention a passing rate.

Funny as TOEIC doesn't recognise a pass or fail.

Thanks. That's what I was interested in, especially as TOEIC isn't designed for this purpose.

I did investigate a little bit and found places outside Thailand that would accept a TOEIC score of 880 for non-native English teachers.

Scott · August 10, 2012

The scores most frequently mentioned are 600 and 650. I believe that in the Bangkok 600 is the magic number. I know a Filipino teacher who could not get a non-immigrant B visa because she had not received a score of 600. It took her quite a few tries to break the 600 mark. Eventually, she did and now she has a non-immigrant B visa and work permit.

One school I know wants a score of 650, but I believe that is an internal requirement of the school.

KhaoNiaw · August 11, 2012

600-650 is still in the range required by airlines or hotels for new graduates here. I wonder why they don't ask for TOEFL or IELTS.

Loaded · August 11, 2012

600-650 is still in the range required by airlines or hotels for new graduates here. I wonder why they don't ask for TOEFL or IELTS.

Because the people running the TCT are incompetent. My school's owner has attended quite a few local and national private school association meetings. The general consensus of most private school owners, directors and even provincial education office officials is that the TCT is completely unaware of the real world. They are inefficient and incompetent and get in the way of education in Thailand. However, they have their supporters in government and the situation is unlikely to change anytime soon.

aidenai · August 11, 2012

600-650 is still in the range required by airlines or hotels for new graduates here. I wonder why they don't ask for TOEFL or IELTS.

Because the people running the TCT are incompetent. My school's owner has attended quite a few local and national private school association meetings. The general consensus of most private school owners, directors and even provincial education office officials is that the TCT is completely unaware of the real world. They are inefficient and incompetent and get in the way of education in Thailand. However, they have their supporters in government and the situation is unlikely to change anytime soon.

I completely agree on this one.

Edited August 11, 2012 by aidenai

chonabot · August 12, 2012

What TOEIC score are non-native English teachers required to get?

Please feel free to read more about it...... .

I don't get your point? I know the test fairly well but I'm just wondering what score non-natives are required to get to be able to teach.

Perhaps he was just trying to be helpful without making a point.

mizzi39 · August 12, 2012

I am on my 3rd waiver. I went to the TC personally. I arrived at 10:00am and had the waiver in my hand at 1500. As long as you are working toward meeting the "requirment" the TC will continue to issue waivers. This is what I was told by the women who authorized mine.

Edited August 12, 2012 by mizzi39

aidenai · August 12, 2012

As long as you are working toward meeting the "requirment" the TC will continue to issue waivers.

I hope you're right, mizzi39.

Unfortunately, we'll really know by 2014.

sirchai · August 12, 2012

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, If woman can survive, they may findIn the year 3535......

Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie. Everything you think, do and say Is in the pill you took today....

In the year 4545 You ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eye. You won't find a thing to chew.....

Nobody's gonna look at you..............

In the year 5555. Your arms hangin' limp at your sides. Your legs got nothin' to do. Some machine's doin' that for you...

In the year 6565. You won't need no husband, won't need no wife...

You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too. From the bottom of a long glass tube...........

In the year 7510 If God's a-coming, He ought make it by then......

Maybe He'll look around Himself and say "Guess it's time for the Judgement Day"

In the year 8510God is gonna shake His mighty head, He'll either say, "I'm pleased where man has been"Or tear it down, and start again............

In the year 9595 I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive....

He's taken everything this old earth can giveAnd he ain't put back nothing...........

Now it's been ten thousand years, man has cried a billion tears. For what, he never knew, now man's reign is through.......

.

But through eternal night, the twinkling of starlight. So very far away, maybe it's only yesterday......

Could take a little longer than until 2014.........

Edited August 12, 2012 by sirchai

aidenai · August 12, 2012

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, If woman can survive, they may findIn the year 3535......

Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lie. Everything you think, do and say Is in the pill you took today....

In the year 4545 You ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eye. You won't find a thing to chew.....

Nobody's gonna look at you..............

In the year 5555. Your arms hangin' limp at your sides. Your legs got nothin' to do. Some machine's doin' that for you...

In the year 6565. You won't need no husband, won't need no wife...

You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too. From the bottom of a long glass tube...........

In the year 7510 If God's a-coming, He ought make it by then......

Maybe He'll look around Himself and say "Guess it's time for the Judgement Day"

In the year 8510God is gonna shake His mighty head, He'll either say, "I'm pleased where man has been"Or tear it down, and start again............

In the year 9595 I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive....

He's taken everything this old earth can giveAnd he ain't put back nothing...........

Now it's been ten thousand years, man has cried a billion tears. For what, he never knew, now man's reign is through.......

.

But through eternal night, the twinkling of starlight. So very far away, maybe it's only yesterday......

Could take a little longer than until 2014.........

I hope for you that's the case.

glaswegian · August 12, 2012

Hallo,

pardon for my ignorance but i am wondering ,do we still need this certificate when we want to extend for our non b?. since my non b runs out on the last week of sept

i should really be very happy if any of you would be enough to provide me with some info as to this!!

many thanks

will

Scott · August 12, 2012

I assume you are referring to the TOEIC?

I can't give you a definitive answer, but the schools I deal with the TOEIC is a one time thing. New non-native English speaking teachers take it and then the extension of stay continues to be approved. The exam and score is only valid for 2 years, but continued employment doesn't result in having to retake the exam every year or two.

I do know of one school that had all their Filipino teachers take the exam every year to determine the amount of their annual pay increase, but that was an internal policy.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Scott

aidenai · August 13, 2012

Hallo,

pardon for my ignorance but i am wondering ,do we still need this certificate when we want to extend for our non b?. since my non b runs out on the last week of sept

i should really be very happy if any of you would be enough to provide me with some info as to this!!

many thanks

will

When working in basic education you need documents from The Teachers' Council of Thailand.

http://www.immigrati...777-2551_en.pdf

http://www.immigrati...305-2551_en.pdf

To get such a provisional teaching permit, there are requirements.

http://www.ksp.or.th...up.php?newid=35

Scott · August 13, 2012

The 2 year validity period for the TOEIC is set by the TOEIC itself. It is written on the official results form. I do know a teacher who had submitted an invalid exam certificate and it was caught by the officials and she had to retake the exam.

sirchai · August 13, 2012

I still don't know if I need one ,or not. But time will show.

What amazes me is that nothing's changing, even after holding seminars for primary and high school Thai English teachers how to teach English most effectively.

Doing a TOIEC after more than seven years of teaching in LOS, seems to be very useful and makes perfect sense.....

.

Scott · August 13, 2012

Sirchai, I don't know if you will need to take the TOEIC at this point in time. I don't know of any teachers who have had to take it after getting their first Non-immigrant B, Work Permit, etc. So from that end of the process, you should not need to take the test.

If the TCT decides you need it, then that is a different story.

sirchai · August 13, 2012

Sirchai, I don't know if you will need to take the TOEIC at this point in time. I don't know of any teachers who have had to take it after getting their first Non-immigrant B, Work Permit, etc. So from that end of the process, you should not need to take the test.

If the TCT decides you need it, then that is a different story.

Thanks Scott!

If so, I wouldn't mind doing so, as I truly believe guys who don't pass this test, shouldn't be allowed to teach English.

It's always a pleasure to read your informative posts. Greetings from lower north-east!---

Edited August 13, 2012 by sirchai

thaicbr · August 13, 2012

Sirchai, I don't know if you will need to take the TOEIC at this point in time. I don't know of any teachers who have had to take it after getting their first Non-immigrant B, Work Permit, etc. So from that end of the process, you should not need to take the test.
If the TCT decides you need it, then that is a different story.

Non native teachers WITHOUT the teachers gold card had to take it at my school. They had already had at least 1 ext. Work permit. That was Nakhon Pathom.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

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