Thaksin Kicks Off U.S. Trip With Cheers And Jeers

[rubl]

In keeping with the restaurant theme and looking like a busboy in a cheap shirt, Thaksin's lawyer cum spokesman Noppadon

assures us the USA trip is going splendidly smooth and that Thaksin has been meeting important American business people.

He relates that Houston, Texas is the next destination after New York on the whistle tour.

INN News (article in Thai)

http://www.innnews.c...newscode=397068

perhaps a trip to the ol' alma mater of nearby Sam Houston State University?

where does it say he has been meeting important american business people?

btw you're performance in this thread is great buchholz, i'm enjoying it, keep it up.

I'm terribly sorry for jumping in where I'm not formally invited, but I thought you might appreciate an answer now rather than wait for buchholz to find the time again to do so.

A previous topic had

"During his visit, Noppadon said, Thaksin will meet Thai and American friends as well as some US politicians who he is acquainted with. Thaksin might even meet businessmen interested in investing in Thailand."

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5540158

Now that's not completely the same as 'important' business people. Still as the link provided by buchholz goes to a Thai language article, how good is your Thai to wonder where it says "important" ?

[rubl]

Not nearly as amusing as those who vicariously enjoy the antics of a psychopathic crook, I reckon.

Why, do you know of one, and who would that be?

I know one, and you can read his postings.

Spread the word lungmi, you're actually saying there is a psychopathic crook posting on this forum? The forum needs to know who that is you're accusing,lungmi................

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. AleG mentioned 'those who enjoy antics of a psychopathic crook', you ask 'who would that be', with lungmi answering 'you can read his postings'.

Now that suggest a 'he', and maybe even 'here', but nowhere does anyone say 'a psychopathic crook is posting in this forum'. Only you seem to wonder about that. Far be it from me to suggest, but when last did you see a doctor about this?

In the mean time k. Thaksin is really enjoying his open arms welcome in the US of A

Edited August 10, 2012 by rubl

[nurofiend]

In keeping with the restaurant theme and looking like a busboy in a cheap shirt, Thaksin's lawyer cum spokesman Noppadon

assures us the USA trip is going splendidly smooth and that Thaksin has been meeting important American business people.

He relates that Houston, Texas is the next destination after New York on the whistle tour.

INN News (article in Thai)

http://www.innnews.c...newscode=397068

perhaps a trip to the ol' alma mater of nearby Sam Houston State University?

where does it say he has been meeting important american business people?

btw you're performance in this thread is great buchholz, i'm enjoying it, keep it up.

I'm terribly sorry for jumping in where I'm not formally invited, but I thought you might appreciate an answer now rather than wait for buchholz to find the time again to do so.

A previous topic had

"During his visit, Noppadon said, Thaksin will meet Thai and American friends as well as some US politicians who he is acquainted with. Thaksin might even meet businessmen interested in investing in Thailand."

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5540158

Now that's not completely the same as 'important' business people. Still as the link provided by buchholz goes to a Thai language article, how good is your Thai to wonder where it says "important" ?

the point that you're missing rubl, is that we are not being assured that "Thaksin has been meeting important American business people." in the linked article... it's just some ad-libbing on buchholz's part.

are you finally accepting this is real btw?

[metisdead]

Some more off topic baiting posts have been removed.

[rubl]

I'm terribly sorry for jumping in where I'm not formally invited, but I thought you might appreciate an answer now rather than wait for buchholz to find the time again to do so.

A previous topic had

"During his visit, Noppadon said, Thaksin will meet Thai and American friends as well as some US politicians who he is acquainted with. Thaksin might even meet businessmen interested in investing in Thailand."

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5540158

Now that's not completely the same as 'important' business people. Still as the link provided by buchholz goes to a Thai language article, how good is your Thai to wonder where it says "important" ?

the point that you're missing rubl, is that we are not being assured that "Thaksin has been meeting important American business people." in the linked article... it's just some ad-libbing on buchholz's part.

are you finally accepting this is real btw?

I guess your Thai is good enough to be able to assure me that in this article quoted by buchholz http://www.innnews.c...newscode=397068 no reference to 'meeting important businessmen' is made. Now that (i.e. the non meeting) would be a bit of a let down, but maybe as k. Noppadon said before 'might meet businessmen interesting in investing' is still true.

As for 'accepting', I never said "this can't be true", I deferred my opinion till later as you could know re-reading all on this topic. Your question seems a bit off, bordering the well-trodden baiting path. you shouldn't, my dear fiend, here I'm slightly disappointed in you

Edited August 10, 2012 by rubl

[hellodolly]

What people fail to realize in all these judgmental posts about the US and visas etc. is the US is not ethically much different from Thailand. Sure, people have a much greater ease of living in the United States, but the key thing is that 99% live one life style and 1% lives like rich people with the ability to judge all others as they see fit. This phrasing was carefully crafted not to offend those who are offended easily. In the US they do not wear colored shirts but are adamant about the rights of "the people". The funny thing about Thailand is the 1% wear red, yellow, blue and any other color shirt they care to while the common folk sit there without a clear understanding of what this all means and go with one color shirt or another due to enticements. The US is giving T a fair reception just as it would those who arrived with any other color shirt with equal dominion. I have to close this as I keep thinking of the t-party which probably should be wearing some kind of colored shirt in the US but hate to think we have fallen that far. I know somebody is turning over in their grave.

I fail to see what you are getting at. Thaksins arrival has nothing to do with the color of his shirt or his supporters.

The question is why did they let a convicted criminal in. It makes no difference why or who brought the charges. What matters is are they true or not. The court said they were true and using the US Constitution of a person is innocent until found guilty he is guilty and they are breaking their own laws to let him in.

A sad day for the US to publicly with great media attention break there own Law.

[nurofiend]

I'm terribly sorry for jumping in where I'm not formally invited, but I thought you might appreciate an answer now rather than wait for buchholz to find the time again to do so.

A previous topic had

"During his visit, Noppadon said, Thaksin will meet Thai and American friends as well as some US politicians who he is acquainted with. Thaksin might even meet businessmen interested in investing in Thailand."

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5540158

Now that's not completely the same as 'important' business people. Still as the link provided by buchholz goes to a Thai language article, how good is your Thai to wonder where it says "important" ?

the point that you're missing rubl, is that we are not being assured that "Thaksin has been meeting important American business people." in the linked article... it's just some ad-libbing on buchholz's part.

are you finally accepting this is real btw?

I guess your Thai is good enough to be able to assure me that in this article quoted by buchholz http://www.innnews.c...newscode=397068 no reference to 'meeting important businessmen' is made. Now that (i.e. the non meeting) would be a bit of a let down, but maybe as k. Noppadon said before 'might meet businessmen interesting in investing' is still true.

As for 'accepting', I never said "this can't be true", I deferred my opinion till later as you could know re-reading all on this topic. Your question seems a bit off, bordering the well-trodden baiting path. you shouldn't, my dear fiend, here I'm slightly disappointed in you

i can assure you that it doesn't say Thaksin has been meeting important American business people, yes.

as for 'accepting', i simply mean that up until he was pictured in america, you didn't 'accept' it.

it's a true statement, nothing 'off' about it.

[espinoza]

Sent from my LG-P990 using Thaivisa Connect App

Why do everybody here care about where Thaksin goes or what he's doing? I don't vare, and I sure he don't care about you or me.

[rubl]

I guess your Thai is good enough to be able to assure me that in this article quoted by buchholz http://www.innnews.c...newscode=397068 no reference to 'meeting important businessmen' is made. Now that (i.e. the non meeting) would be a bit of a let down, but maybe as k. Noppadon said before 'might meet businessmen interesting in investing' is still true.

As for 'accepting', I never said "this can't be true", I deferred my opinion till later as you could know re-reading all on this topic. Your question seems a bit off, bordering the well-trodden baiting path. you shouldn't, my dear fiend, here I'm slightly disappointed in you

i can assure you that it doesn't say Thaksin has been meeting important American business people, yes.

as for 'accepting', i simply mean that up until he was pictured in america, you didn't 'accept' it.

it's a true statement, nothing 'off' about it.

Regarding the 'important businessmen' or rather lack of them, I'm willing to deref to your knowledge of the Thai language. Doesn't really matter, k. Noppadon only said 'might meet business people' and buchholz might have 'embellished' a bit..

Regarding 'not accepting' I must admit my memory seems to start to fail me, it was two topics like this before on the 1st of August where I wrote "So I guess we'll have to wait and see, only 30 more days in this month". That's not really like "didn't accept", now is it?

[nurofiend]

I guess your Thai is good enough to be able to assure me that in this article quoted by buchholz http://www.innnews.c...newscode=397068 no reference to 'meeting important businessmen' is made. Now that (i.e. the non meeting) would be a bit of a let down, but maybe as k. Noppadon said before 'might meet businessmen interesting in investing' is still true.

As for 'accepting', I never said "this can't be true", I deferred my opinion till later as you could know re-reading all on this topic. Your question seems a bit off, bordering the well-trodden baiting path. you shouldn't, my dear fiend, here I'm slightly disappointed in you

i can assure you that it doesn't say Thaksin has been meeting important American business people, yes.

as for 'accepting', i simply mean that up until he was pictured in america, you didn't 'accept' it.

it's a true statement, nothing 'off' about it.

Regarding the 'important businessmen' or rather lack of them, I'm willing to deref to your knowledge of the Thai language. Doesn't really matter, k. Noppadon only said 'might meet business people' and buchholz might have 'embellished' a bit..

Regarding 'not accepting' I must admit my memory seems to start to fail me, it was two topics like this before on the 1st of August where I wrote "So I guess we'll have to wait and see, only 30 more days in this month". That's not really like "didn't accept", now is it?

http://www.thaivisa....25#entry5536155

"I wrote "So I guess we'll have to wait and see, only 30 more days in this month". That's not really like "didn't accept", now is it?"

oh but it is very like "didn't accept", it was presented to you as truth and "you didn't accept" it as such.

and fine, that's your prerogative but don't backtrack and niggle about it now...

[ttelise]

Sent from my LG-P990 using Thaivisa Connect App

Why do everybody here care about where Thaksin goes or what he's doing? I don't vare, and I sure he don't care about you or me.

Haha, I know. Seriously, why the big fus, unless people just itching to hate in the US. No one here complains about China if he goes to China. No one complains about England if he goes to England. No one bashes Dubai. Who cares if he is UN the US. I doubt he cares, but you guys seem to be losing sleep over it and getting all worked up over it. Thaksin would probably get a kick out of how worked up people get over him.

[ThaiOats]

Sent from my LG-P990 using Thaivisa Connect App

Why do everybody here care about where Thaksin goes or what he's doing? I don't vare, and I sure he don't care about you or me.

Haha, I know. Seriously, why the big fus, unless people just itching to hate in the US. No one here complains about China if he goes to China. No one complains about England if he goes to England. No one bashes Dubai. Who cares if he is UN the US. I doubt he cares, but you guys seem to be losing sleep over it and getting all worked up over it. Thaksin would probably get a kick out of how worked up people get over him.

Rather difficult to answer the 'why' question. There are other people out there who do have reasons (unknown to you) to hate him and believe me there are.

[ttelise]

Sent from my LG-P990 using Thaivisa Connect App

Why do everybody here care about where Thaksin goes or what he's doing? I don't vare, and I sure he don't care about you or me.

Haha, I know. Seriously, why the big fus, unless people just itching to hate in the US. No one here complains about China if he goes to China. No one complains about England if he goes to England. No one bashes Dubai. Who cares if he is UN the US. I doubt he cares, but you guys seem to be losing sleep over it and getting all worked up over it. Thaksin would probably get a kick out of how worked up people get over him.

Rather difficult to answer the 'why' question. There are other people out there who do have reasons (unknown to you) to hate him and believe me there are.

I get that, but this more directed at US. Life is too great and way too short to walk around so ticked off about someone or where someone goes. Now if he rapped your girl or beat up your sister, then it's personal. Otherwise, just wasting hours and days being unhappy about something you cannot control.

The world ain't fair. The ones that realize this, but still fight like hell to make it win. The ones that sit around and belly ache about it not being fair lose.

Edited August 10, 2012 by ttelise

[waza]

Sent from my LG-P990 using Thaivisa Connect App

Why do everybody here care about where Thaksin goes or what he's doing? I don't vare, and I sure he don't care about you or me.

Haha, I know. Seriously, why the big fus, unless people just itching to hate in the US. No one here complains about China if he goes to China. No one complains about England if he goes to England. No one bashes Dubai. Who cares if he is UN the US. I doubt he cares, but you guys seem to be losing sleep over it and getting all worked up over it. Thaksin would probably get a kick out of how worked up people get over him.

Rather difficult to answer the 'why' question. There are other people out there who do have reasons (unknown to you) to hate him and believe me there are.

I get that, but this more directed at US. Life is too great and way too short to walk around so ticked off about someone or where someone goes. Now if he rapped your girl or beat up your sister, then it's personal. Otherwise, just wasting hours and days being unhappy about something you cannot control.

The world ain't fair. The ones that realize this, but still fight like hell to make it win. The ones that sit around and belly ache about it not being fair lose.

I guess its because he should be desinated as the leader of a terrorist organisation not given a visa to attend dinner in a run down mall in a low socio-economic area for water and cake with 30 redshirt pensioners. With a few yellowshirts protesting and displaying the truth......

PS: One pic shows Thaksin taking a pic with his body guards, and is that Lydia behind him?

Edited August 10, 2012 by waza

[ttelise]

Haha, I know. Seriously, why the big fus, unless people just itching to hate in the US. No one here complains about China if he goes to China. No one complains about England if he goes to England. No one bashes Dubai. Who cares if he is UN the US. I doubt he cares, but you guys seem to be losing sleep over it and getting all worked up over it. Thaksin would probably get a kick out of how worked up people get over him.

Rather difficult to answer the 'why' question. There are other people out there who do have reasons (unknown to you) to hate him and believe me there are.

I get that, but this more directed at US. Life is too great and way too short to walk around so ticked off about someone or where someone goes. Now if he rapped your girl or beat up your sister, then it's personal. Otherwise, just wasting hours and days being unhappy about something you cannot control.

The world ain't fair. The ones that realize this, but still fight like hell to make it win. The ones that sit around and belly ache about it not being fair lose.

I guess its because he should be desinated as the leader of a terrorist organisation not given a visa to attend dinner in a run down mall in a low socio-economic area for water and cake with 30 redshirt pensioners. With a few yellowshirts protesting and displaying the truth......

PS: One pic shows Thaksin taking a pic with his body guards, and is that Lydia behind him?

Haha, I dunno who Lydia is. I doubt 99.9 percent of Americans know who Thaksin is so no reason to hate on Americans for him being here. I wouldn't even know he was here but for this website as no mention here.

[GentlemanJim]

Rather difficult to answer the 'why' question. There are other people out there who do have reasons (unknown to you) to hate him and believe me there are.

I get that, but this more directed at US. Life is too great and way too short to walk around so ticked off about someone or where someone goes. Now if he rapped your girl or beat up your sister, then it's personal. Otherwise, just wasting hours and days being unhappy about something you cannot control.

The world ain't fair. The ones that realize this, but still fight like hell to make it win. The ones that sit around and belly ache about it not being fair lose.

I guess its because he should be desinated as the leader of a terrorist organisation not given a visa to attend dinner in a run down mall in a low socio-economic area for water and cake with 30 redshirt pensioners. With a few yellowshirts protesting and displaying the truth......

PS: One pic shows Thaksin taking a pic with his body guards, and is that Lydia behind him?

Haha, I dunno who Lydia is. I doubt 99.9 percent of Americans know who Thaksin is so no reason to hate on Americans for him being here. I wouldn't even know he was here but for this website as no mention here.

There was a lot of hate directed at Brits (in particular Scots) when Al Megrahi was let out of jail. A convicted criminal responsible for the deaths of 270 people. The US has banged Madoff up for 50 years for stealing billions from innocent )albeit greedy) people. Here we have Thaksin, a convicted criminal responsible for over 2500 extra judicial killings AND the robbing of countless billions from the Thai tax payer whilst he was in office, swanning around the US pretending he is an 'A' class celebrity, and he still has not been charged yet with other serious crimes. It's very frustrating, go figure.

[Scott]

I fail to see what you are getting at. Thaksins arrival has nothing to do with the color of his shirt or his supporters.

The question is why did they let a convicted criminal in. It makes no difference why or who brought the charges. What matters is are they true or not. The court said they were true and using the US Constitution of a person is innocent until found guilty he is guilty and they are breaking their own laws to let him in.

A sad day for the US to publicly with great media attention break there own Law.

The granting of a visa is not covered in the constitution, so no law is being broken. His right to protection under the US Constitution only applies when he steps foot on US soil. The visa granting authority was done outside of the US to a person who is not a US citizen. People convicted of a crime can request a waiver of that conviction. The power to grant a visa is a discretionary power. If you are denied a visa, for example, it's almost impossible to take the matter to court.

[ttelise]

I fail to see what you are getting at. Thaksins arrival has nothing to do with the color of his shirt or his supporters.

The question is why did they let a convicted criminal in. It makes no difference why or who brought the charges. What matters is are they true or not. The court said they were true and using the US Constitution of a person is innocent until found guilty he is guilty and they are breaking their own laws to let him in.

A sad day for the US to publicly with great media attention break there own Law.

The granting of a visa is not covered in the constitution, so no law is being broken. His right to protection under the US Constitution only applies when he steps foot on US soil. The visa granting authority was done outside of the US to a person who is not a US citizen. People convicted of a crime can request a waiver of that conviction. The power to grant a visa is a discretionary power. If you are denied a visa, for example, it's almost impossible to take the matter to court.

Though true, will likely fall on deaf ears and the same things will be said over and over by same posters on this subject. I just don't understand. It's like dude pissed in their Cheerios. They seem to take this stuff so personally.

[jackr]

Bit of an embarrassment for the ole yankee-doodles this, no?

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra kicked off a two-week visit to the United States by dining at Pongsri, a popular Thai restaurant in New York

How about make a big deal to dine in a quintessential eating establishment of the place you're visiting, like a steakhouse or even freakin' McDs in this case? I know it's him, but there's just no humility is there; it has to be a Thai restaurant.

[simple1]

I fail to see what you are getting at. Thaksins arrival has nothing to do with the color of his shirt or his supporters.

The question is why did they let a convicted criminal in. It makes no difference why or who brought the charges. What matters is are they true or not. The court said they were true and using the US Constitution of a person is innocent until found guilty he is guilty and they are breaking their own laws to let him in.

A sad day for the US to publicly with great media attention break there own Law.

The granting of a visa is not covered in the constitution, so no law is being broken. His right to protection under the US Constitution only applies when he steps foot on US soil. The visa granting authority was done outside of the US to a person who is not a US citizen. People convicted of a crime can request a waiver of that conviction. The power to grant a visa is a discretionary power. If you are denied a visa, for example, it's almost impossible to take the matter to court.

Though true, will likely fall on deaf ears and the same things will be said over and over by same posters on this subject. I just don't understand. It's like dude pissed in their Cheerios. They seem to take this stuff so personally.

Many members of TV live in Thailand & do care about the application of justice in Thailand. As has already been stated, to date, the Thai government/nor the international courts, have not issued an arrest warrant for Thaksin for unlawful killings during the "war against drugs". As discussed, ad infinitum, for whatever reason the US did provide a visa for Thaksin, but people consider this ethically wrong. We know the US cannot arrest and extradite Thaksin to Thailand for the current conviction unless the Thai government requests them to do so.

Edited August 11, 2012 by simple1

[Buchholz]

I wouldn't even know he was here but for this website as no mention here.

which reinforces the notion that he's under restrictions that curtail his normal modus operandi.

his itinerary and movements are also very revealing.

No outside media involvement, no meetings with anyone other than a handful of Red Shirts at crappy restaurants, no video call-ins back to Thailand, it's all exceedingly out of character for the publicity hound to be so low key.

One might gather from this is that, unlike Dubai, the USA is holding him to Dubai's stance that he is to avoid all political activity as a conditional requirement for him to visit.

[Credo]

Bit of an embarrassment for the ole yankee-doodles this, no?

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra kicked off a two-week visit to the United States by dining at Pongsri, a popular Thai restaurant in New York

How about make a big deal to dine in a quintessential eating establishment of the place you're visiting, like a steakhouse or even freakin' McDs in this case? I know it's him, but there's just no humility is there; it has to be a Thai restaurant.

Not at all embarrassing. If he had stopped at had Fish and Chips, that would be embarrassing.

[yoshiwara]

I fail to see what you are getting at. Thaksins arrival has nothing to do with the color of his shirt or his supporters.

The question is why did they let a convicted criminal in. It makes no difference why or who brought the charges. What matters is are they true or not. The court said they were true and using the US Constitution of a person is innocent until found guilty he is guilty and they are breaking their own laws to let him in.

A sad day for the US to publicly with great media attention break there own Law.

The granting of a visa is not covered in the constitution, so no law is being broken. His right to protection under the US Constitution only applies when he steps foot on US soil. The visa granting authority was done outside of the US to a person who is not a US citizen. People convicted of a crime can request a waiver of that conviction. The power to grant a visa is a discretionary power. If you are denied a visa, for example, it's almost impossible to take the matter to court.

Though true, will likely fall on deaf ears and the same things will be said over and over by same posters on this subject. I just don't understand. It's like dude pissed in their Cheerios. They seem to take this stuff so personally.

Unlike the Thaksin cheerleader club who are oh so sitting on the sidelines. Its very simple really. he is a convicted criminal trying to whitewash his shoes and this week it is New York. Maybe next week it will be Chicago and Thakisn can waii at the shrine of Al Capone (assuming there is one of course).

[maidu]

The granting of a visa is not covered in the constitution, so no law is being broken.

There are thousands of US laws which aren't mentioned in the US constitution (written on hemp paper, btw),

​what a nutzoid argument. There is also no mention of DUI in the Constitution, does that make DUI laws moot?

Thaksin should not have been granted a US visa, period. I'm an American and am disappointed at the decision.

[nurofiend]

I fail to see what you are getting at. Thaksins arrival has nothing to do with the color of his shirt or his supporters.

The question is why did they let a convicted criminal in. It makes no difference why or who brought the charges. What matters is are they true or not. The court said they were true and using the US Constitution of a person is innocent until found guilty he is guilty and they are breaking their own laws to let him in.

A sad day for the US to publicly with great media attention break there own Law.

The granting of a visa is not covered in the constitution, so no law is being broken. His right to protection under the US Constitution only applies when he steps foot on US soil. The visa granting authority was done outside of the US to a person who is not a US citizen. People convicted of a crime can request a waiver of that conviction. The power to grant a visa is a discretionary power. If you are denied a visa, for example, it's almost impossible to take the matter to court.

Though true, will likely fall on deaf ears and the same things will be said over and over by same posters on this subject. I just don't understand. It's like dude pissed in their Cheerios. They seem to take this stuff so personally.

Many members of TV live in Thailand & do care about the application of justice in Thailand. As has already been stated, to date, the Thai government/nor the international courts, have not issued an arrest warrant for Thaksin for unlawful killings during the "war against drugs". As discussed, ad infinitum, for whatever reason the US did provide a visa for Thaksin, but people consider this ethically wrong. We know the US cannot arrest and extradite Thaksin to Thailand for the current conviction unless the Thai government requests them to do so.

listen, if you're gonna hold thaksin up to blame for the war on drugs, you may as well hold the whole country up for it.

and that's not me supporting it, it's just the truth.

he gets scolded for that and i agree that he should do, but to put it all on his shoulders is very naive... at best.

[Scott]

Maidu, I don't want to get into an argument and I am not making a statement on whether Thaksin should have been given a visa. The laws you mentioned are subject to judicial overview. If you get a DUI, you can appeal it in a US court. You cannot appeal the denial of a visa in a court. The power to grant a visa is discretionary.

[Moruya]

listen, if you're gonna hold thaksin up to blame for the war on drugs, you may as well hold the whole country up for it.

and that's not me supporting it, it's just the truth.

he gets scolded for that and i agree that he should do, but to put it all on his shoulders is very naive... at best.

What a daft suggestion.

[simple1]

@nurofiend Are you suggesting Thaksin didn't have executive ownership for the war on drugs policy in Thailand? A quote from Thaksin “Because drug traders are ruthless to our children. So being ruthless back to them is not a big thing…. It may be necessary to have casualties… If there are deaths among traders, it’s normal…”.

Edited August 11, 2012 by simple1

[Buchholz]

[Moruya]

@nurofiend Are you suggesting Thaksin didn't have executive ownership for the war on drugs policy in Thailand? A quote from Thaksin “Because drug traders are ruthless to our children. So being ruthless back to them is not a big thing…. It may be necessary to have casualties… If there are deaths among traders, it’s normal…”.

And we havent even mentioned Yongyut just yet