Thai Tire Technology From The 1960'S?

[BuckarooBanzai]

This is posted in the general forum as the problem likely effects everyone who drives. If the powers that be think differently, up to them and they will make the appropriate adjustments.

I have a Toyota Vigo which was outfitted with Michelin tires when I purchased it new. The new car with the new set of tires lasted 30,000 km, - that's km. not mi. - before a sidewall blew out. Very lucky my wife was driving through a village at slow speed when the blow out occured, but she did manage to wingding a motor cycle. Upon examination the tires were balding but the failure was a true blow out of the sidewall. This is after 30,000 km. Of course we had no recourse about the failure. But did replace all tires with replacements. Buyers beware!

I am at a loss as to why a Thai tire lasts about 1/10 the life of a tire from any other country that makes good tires. Any country that is more than third world make dependable steel belted radials that last and are safe. I always thought Michelin was a respected trademark but now on my second replacement purchase of all 4 tires they are balding at 35,000 km. I gave them a second chance as this was the tire provided on the new vehicle. This should be an embarrassment for the company.

I am pretty sure that these tires are made in Thailand and that they are using technology from the 1960's. Can someone please tell me what is going on? Needless to say Michelin rates a -10 on tires to buy. Trouble is I do not know if any of the others are any better.

Although this is obviously a rant against tires, and I believe justifiably so, I really am looking for advice on what to buy, and at the same time warning the uninitiated that you are driving on tires that potentially have a breaking point less than anything you should consider safe.

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe the tyres were not at the correct pressure. Maybe they had been scuffed on the kerb. Really, you should have posted your question here

SC

[thailoht]

Shouldn't this be moved to the 'Motor Forum'?

[LennyW]

Something does not sound right, are the tires the correct load rating for the vehicle? i thought Vigo's were fitted with Bridgestone Dueller's from new?

[BookMan]

Id suggest you get into the motoring forum Transam knows about tyre pressures.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Maybe the tyres were not at the correct pressure. Maybe they had been scuffed on the kerb. Really, you should have posted your question here

SC

Thanks for your advice SC but as I mentioned this was a new car and serviced religiously. If you can give me some evidence that tires here last more than 30 to 40 k km I will look into it.

But I think you are simply giving a flipant response!

Time will tell if others have had a similar experience or not but this is not a meaningless post regarding a potential safety hazard. Tire wear is a very visable thing to take note of and I really do not think your response is justified.

Edit: Sidewall damage is usually apparent and I detected no scuffing of the surface. If I had to guess I would expect internal failure.

In addition to above edit I am simply suggesting that those that drive in Thailand need to drive defensivly with consideration of their own vehicle.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe the tyres were not at the correct pressure. Maybe they had been scuffed on the kerb. Really, you should have posted your question here

SC

Thanks for your advice SC but as I mentioned this was a new car and serviced religiously. If you can give me some evidence that tires here last more than 30 to 40 k km I will look into it.

But I think you are simply giving a flipant response!

Time will tell if others have had a similar experience or not but this is not a meaningless post regarding a potential safety hazard. Tire wear is a very visable thing to take note of and I really do not think your response is justified.

Edit: Sidewall damage is usually apparent and I detected no scuffing of the surface. If I had to guess I would expect internal failure.

I'm fortunate to live in a country where tyres are second to none - as you would expect from a country with such a rubber-exporting tradition (don't get me started on the condoms!); my more-humble-than-most proton has done 30K, and the tyres are looking tip-top. Although I had to put air in them a few weeks back. Maybe your dealer is buying knockoff tyres from 'another source', but really, if a tyre fails, I would guess it is something that has happened to the tyre, not an endemic fault with the tyre industry in your country of current residency.

SC

[BuckarooBanzai]

Something does not sound right, are the tires the correct load rating for the vehicle? i thought Vigo's were fitted with Bridgestone Dueller's from new?

I purchased this in Bangkok and have no idea if the standard was replaced with something else. I have seen Bridgestones on other Vigos which have a much more pronounced tread but do not know if this is standard. The tread I saw on the Bridgestone was offroad type and I thought would not be very good on the highway. I do have the elevated frame though as I live in the outback but commute to bkk often.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai

[BuckarooBanzai]

Maybe the tyres were not at the correct pressure. Maybe they had been scuffed on the kerb. Really, you should have posted your question here

SC

Thanks for your advice SC but as I mentioned this was a new car and serviced religiously. If you can give me some evidence that tires here last more than 30 to 40 k km I will look into it.

But I think you are simply giving a flipant response!

Time will tell if others have had a similar experience or not but this is not a meaningless post regarding a potential safety hazard. Tire wear is a very visable thing to take note of and I really do not think your response is justified.

Edit: Sidewall damage is usually apparent and I detected no scuffing of the surface. If I had to guess I would expect internal failure.

I'm fortunate to live in a country where tyres are second to none - as you would expect from a country with such a rubber-exporting tradition (don't get me started on the condoms!); my more-humble-than-most proton has done 30K, and the tyres are looking tip-top. Although I had to put air in them a few weeks back. Maybe your dealer is buying knockoff tyres from 'another source', but really, if a tyre fails, I would guess it is something that has happened to the tyre, not an endemic fault with the tyre industry in your country of current residency.

SC

My second set of tires was purchased through a second source "goodyear" but you may be right in that these tires are not appropriate for the vigo. There was no scuff on the failed tire. I am beginning to think that the tires I was provided with were inappropriate for the vigo. Perhaps an enterprising employee is enjoying my real tires.

But again, this is no joke, a sidewall blowout is serious business. I have yet to hear some good advice on what my replacements should be.

Edit: What ever happened to steel belted radials?

Edited August 14, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe the tyres were not at the correct pressure. Maybe they had been scuffed on the kerb. Really, you should have posted your question here

SC

Thanks for your advice SC but as I mentioned this was a new car and serviced religiously. If you can give me some evidence that tires here last more than 30 to 40 k km I will look into it.

But I think you are simply giving a flipant response!

Time will tell if others have had a similar experience or not but this is not a meaningless post regarding a potential safety hazard. Tire wear is a very visable thing to take note of and I really do not think your response is justified.

Edit: Sidewall damage is usually apparent and I detected no scuffing of the surface. If I had to guess I would expect internal failure.

I'm fortunate to live in a country where tyres are second to none - as you would expect from a country with such a rubber-exporting tradition (don't get me started on the condoms!); my more-humble-than-most proton has done 30K, and the tyres are looking tip-top. Although I had to put air in them a few weeks back. Maybe your dealer is buying knockoff tyres from 'another source', but really, if a tyre fails, I would guess it is something that has happened to the tyre, not an endemic fault with the tyre industry in your country of current residency.

SC

My second set of tires was purchased through a second source "goodyear" but you may be right in that these tires are not appropriate for the vigo. There was no scuff on the failed tire. I am beginning to think that the tires I was provided with were inappropriate for the vigo. Perhaps an enterprising employee is enjoying my real tires.

But again, this is no joke, a sidewall blowout is serious business. I have yet to hear some good advice on what my replacements should be.

Full price

By way of explanation; I lease my car from an excellent company; it's a fair car; their service is excellent and its within budget. Guys who earn a fraction of what I do spend half as much on a better car, but I'd rather somebody else worried about my car; the easiest way to enjoy safe and secure motoring i to go to a company whose reputation is worth more than their profit. The next best way is to devote your time and effort, but in that case you'd not be posting in the General forum.

SC

Edited August 14, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[BuckarooBanzai]

Full price

My god SC you certainly are flipant tonight! One goes to Goodyear and pays the full price is not the same as going to your brother in law for a tire change. What is going through your mind and why can't you answer a question with something other than a witty response.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai

[BuckarooBanzai]

I apoligize if my selection of the general forum is inappropriate to warn people of a serious hazard.

Forget all about my problems with my tires but make sure you inspect your tires on a regular basis.

Some believe the discussion of tires is political or only belongs in a mechanics thread but in reality the responsibility resides in each and every one of us.

Protect your selves by awareness!

[c18gmr]

I've never had a set of tires last more than 20,000km in UK or anywhere, as I'd rather they actually grip the road, than last forever with zero grip, each to their own though.

[StreetCowboy]

Full price

My god SC you certainly are flippant tonight! One goes to Goodyear and pays the full price is not the same as going to your brother in law for a tire change. What is going through your mind and why can't you answer a question with something other than a witty response.

I could suppress my wit, and try to be a dollard, but you might as well talk to yourself then.

I could have said "I would recommed going to a reputable dealer and paying for a respected international brand name, rather than allowing someone else to buy one's tyres". In fact, I think I said that, though in less words, and perhaps more memorably.

I'm really not having a go at you.

But I would be very surprised if Michelin sold ropey tyres in Thailand. Maybe not the same standard as in Japan, or France, but I doubt orders of magnitude difference. Anf given the absence of "Aye, me too" comments, maybe it is something in the usage of the tyre?

SC

[BuckarooBanzai]

How many miles do tires last?

• As recently as the 1970s, tires had a relatively short life span of less than 20,000 miles, or about two years. By 2000, harder compound tires were being made that could last for 60,000 miles over four or more years of constant use. Currently, there are some tires that can get as many as 80,000 miles of treadwear. Treadwear ratings are listed on tires and can range from 60 to more than 500. An example would be a treadwear grade of 400, which would last twice as long as a tire that has a 200 grade. The tire's load rating is listed on the tires as well. The larger the number, the higher the load capacity; for example, an "89" load rating is 1,279 lbs. and an "85" rating is 1,135 lbs.
  

http://www.ehow.com/...-car-tires.html

This is my expectation but regretfully not what I have experienced here.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai

[StreetCowboy]

How many miles do tires last?

• As recently as the 1970s, tires had a relatively short life span of less than 20,000 miles, or about two years. By 2000, harder compound tires were being made that could last for 60,000 miles over four or more years of constant use. Currently, there are some tires that can get as many as 80,000 miles of treadwear. Treadwear ratings are listed on tires and can range from 60 to more than 500. An example would be a treadwear grade of 400, which would last twice as long as a tire that has a 200 grade. The tire's load rating is listed on the tires as well. The larger the number, the higher the load capacity; for example, an "89" load rating is 1,279 lbs. and an "85" rating is 1,135 lbs.
  

http://www.ehow.com/...-car-tires.html

This is my expectation but regretfully not what I have experienced here.

And given the number of others who have come forward sharing your plight, how have you examined your own role in this misfortune?

SC

[BuckarooBanzai]

How many miles do tires last?

• As recently as the 1970s, tires had a relatively short life span of less than 20,000 miles, or about two years. By 2000, harder compound tires were being made that could last for 60,000 miles over four or more years of constant use. Currently, there are some tires that can get as many as 80,000 miles of treadwear. Treadwear ratings are listed on tires and can range from 60 to more than 500. An example would be a treadwear grade of 400, which would last twice as long as a tire that has a 200 grade. The tire's load rating is listed on the tires as well. The larger the number, the higher the load capacity; for example, an "89" load rating is 1,279 lbs. and an "85" rating is 1,135 lbs.
  

http://www.ehow.com/...-car-tires.html

This is my expectation but regretfully not what I have experienced here.

And given the number of others who have come forward sharing your plight, how have you examined your own role in this misfortune?

SC

I regret to say that you cannot trust anybody. So sad.

Edit: If you mean I am FOS you are disregarding reality. On the other hand if I get someone to check their tires I am a happy camper.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BuckarooBanzai

[StreetCowboy]

How many miles do tires last?

• As recently as the 1970s, tires had a relatively short life span of less than 20,000 miles, or about two years. By 2000, harder compound tires were being made that could last for 60,000 miles over four or more years of constant use. Currently, there are some tires that can get as many as 80,000 miles of treadwear. Treadwear ratings are listed on tires and can range from 60 to more than 500. An example would be a treadwear grade of 400, which would last twice as long as a tire that has a 200 grade. The tire's load rating is listed on the tires as well. The larger the number, the higher the load capacity; for example, an "89" load rating is 1,279 lbs. and an "85" rating is 1,135 lbs.
  

http://www.ehow.com/...-car-tires.html

This is my expectation but regretfully not what I have experienced here.

And given the number of others who have come forward sharing your plight, how have you examined your own role in this misfortune?

SC

I regret to say that you cannot trust anybody. So sad.

Edit: If you mean I am FOS you are disregarding reality. On the other hand if I get someone to check their tires I am a happy camper.

I trust my wife, and I trust the company that i lease my car from. You can trust anyone. The challenge is making sure that you trust those that deserve it, not only those that you can...

Personally, if someone says something that makes me look like I have made a mistake, I rubbish them and discount their opinion, because it is bad enough having facts that make me look foolish, without anonymous strangers jumping on the bandwagon

SC

[BuckarooBanzai]

I trust that you will all judge for yourselves if you have "good" tires or "bad". Keep an eye on them at any rate and do not let anybody tell you that you should not be concerned.

[StreetCowboy]

I trust that you will all judge for yourselves if you have "good" tires or "bad". Keep an eye on them at any rate and do not let anybody tell you that you should not be concerned.

How would I know if I had bad tyres?

II've recently pumped them up to nominal pressure....

SC

[BuckarooBanzai]

I trust that you will all judge for yourselves if you have "good" tires or "bad". Keep an eye on them at any rate and do not let anybody tell you that you should not be concerned.

How would I know if I had bad tyres?

II've recently pumped them up to nominal pressure....

SC

You should check your tires for wear at least once a month and before and after long trips. To determine whether you need to (a) buy new tires, ( have your wheels balanced, © have your wheels aligned, or (d) change your driving habits, simply read your tire treads for clues.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/checking-your-tires-for-wear.html

[Banzai99]

Tyres on my Fortuner lasted over 80,000 kms before I changed them, Bridgestone Duellers, they were just over 6 years old, still had some tread left, but it was time to change.

I replaced them with Bridgestone Duellers.

[LennyW]

Tyres on my Fortuner lasted over 80,000 kms before I changed them, Bridgestone Duellers, they were just over 6 years old, still had some tread left, but it was time to change.

I replaced them with Bridgestone Duellers.

This is what leads me to think the OP's vehicle was perhaps fitted with the wrong tyres from the outset?

[Spoonman]

The tyre that had the blowout, was it the front left ?

[David48]

You should check your tires for wear at least once a month and before and after long trips.

But in your OP you wrote ...

I have a Toyota Vigo which was outfitted with Michelin tires when I purchased it new ... Upon examination the tires were balding ...

What tire pressure were running?

Edited August 15, 2012 by David48

[Sayonarax]

My friend had the same issue. He reckons its the service guy purposely damaging them so they get to replace them.

Make sure your cars fitted with H/T Tyres if you live in the city.

Got a Pajareo SUV with 75k Kms same tyres. Get Bridgestone not that american crap.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Sayonarax

[billd766]

I drive an 11 year old Ford Ranger 4x4 with just over 265,000 km on the speedo.

It came with Michelins and the first set lasted over 100,000 km, the second set ran a disappointing 70,xxx km and I still have a fair tread on the third set.

I always check the tyre pressures myself if the truck had been in the shop for any reason and generally lower the tyre pressure to around 30 psi which is what Ford recommend and not as my wife and other Thais set it to as "the tyres looked flat" so we pumped them up for you.

Sure you did and while 45 to 50 psi is OK according to the tyre wall it ain't OK for me.

[overherebc]

Had a good look at the tyres today during service . Still got about 2/3mm left all round after 117,000 km's. Bridgestones

Probably go for a new set next month.

Edited August 15, 2012 by overherebc

[noise]

Thanks for your advice SC but as I mentioned this was a new car and serviced religiously. If you can give me some evidence that tires here last more than 30 to 40 k km I will look into it.

As pure coincidence, at 1 pm today 16 August, I have an appointment to have my 5 year old Fortuner's Michellin tires with 72,000+ trouble free kilometers on them replaced with another set of Michellin tires. The still have tread, but too little for safety reasons in the rainy season.

When I looked for replacements, I found there are 4 different Michellin model numbers for the Fortuner with different prices. In my experience, tire life is in direct relation to the price and small difference in price can often mean significant differences in tire life. I assume I will get another 70+K km out of this new set based on reviewing the spec for each tire.

It doesn't matter where you are in the world, there are always random failures in quality products.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Thank you all for your input. I understand there are a great number of reasons for early tire failure but just wish I knew why mine were becoming worn out after a little more the 20 k miles. Maybe it is just the sharp stones they use here in my neck of the woods for road surfacing which have to be hell on tires. I am happy for all you who are getting good results. I am going to be more astute in trying to maintain 30 psi though as I have been to trusting on letting others maintain pressure. I am not as spry as I used to be and do not get hands on much anymore. This I think must be an exception though..

A couple of questions were asked which I have not answered yet - sidewall blowout was on rear left and Michellin is standard issue on some Vigo Prerunners.

Again thanks for all the input.