Partner Problems ..Return To Thailand....Or Not ?

[GreenSnapper]

Could it be that the true reason would be drugs?

[Beetlejuice]

Could it be that the true reason would be drugs?

Excellent point.

That would be one good reason why someone would be arrested at an airport.

OP, do the right thing and contact a lawyer.

[nextmove]

Thank you Guesthouse- you have given some sound advice. Regarding custody in the UK …yes this is something to consider depending on events. Being unmarried to my partner gives me no rights at all in Thailand although I'm not sure what the situation would be if she ends up with a medium to long term prison sentence......another reason to stay put in the UK for now until things become much clearer.

Brit1984 - we are not married but I refer to her as my wife due to our long term relationship and co habitation. Thank you for your advice on my situation.

[nextmove]

Ask the sister (or another intermediary) to visit the police and ask if your wife has been formally charged. If no then she should be released after the maximum permissible period for police questioning under Thai law.

If she has been formally charged, have your intermediary request a written copy of the charge(s) (the charge sheet).

This document can then be scanned at an internet cafe and emailed to you.

You can then take it to a Thai translation provider in your city.

Once you have the charge(s) spelled out for you in English you can then seek Thai legal assistance (if necessary).

Call six (or more) Thai lawyers. The first consultation is always free. Use skype to minimise your call costs.

Tell each lawyer the nature of the charge(s) and then ask how, if you engage him or her, they propose to move forward to resolve the matter and their estimation of the costs.

After these initial six free consultations you will have a better understanding of the problem at hand. If need be, you can then select and engage the lawyer who best answered you initial questions, speaks acceptable english, and quoted a fair price.

Stay calm and focussed and always remember that it is impossible to engineer a solution until you have properly defined the problem.

Many thanks Phronesis

Advice like this is invaluable and makes total sense...as you and others have sugested an English /Thai speaking lawyer seems to be the way to go. There is no other option really.

Rest assured I am staying calm and focussed despite the fact that some people are trying to second guess what the reason for her detention might be.

[nextmove]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Blimey, we agree on something.

OP, do not think we are being negative but some of us have seen some serious sh_t that beggars belief, so keep your mind/eyes fully open.

I understand where you are coming from chaps regarding the money etc but only a few months earlier my ''wife'' signed a paper allowing me to return to the UK with my daughter. She was about to return to the UK and we already had our return tickets to Thailand booked for October. So she was going to get her daughter back to Thailand in 2 months anyway and had the chance of a break in the UK.

I have also checked with the airline who confirmed that she had checked in for her flight but was then stopped at Thai immigration ( as per airline computer records) so I'm as sure as sure could be that she is being held for something of a serious nature...its just a question of what for...and that is where I have to take the word of her sister.

What was the reason for this ?

Any parent travelling alone with their child might be questioned at immigration as the fear is they might be ''taking the child out of the country without the other parents knowledge or against their will''... Since our child was travelling alone with me using her Thai passport there may of been a problem at Thai immigration so it is prudent to have a letter from the mother giving her permission for your child to travel with you to the UK or overseas. This happens not only in Thailand but in many other countries around the world including the UK.

The subject has been raised on the Thaivisa family forum.

A friend of mine was once denied exit from Thailand with his two boys for this very reason.However in my case the immigration officer only asked my daughter ''is this your daddy'' to which she answered ''yes'' and we were on our way with no further questions asked about permission letters or otherwise.

[nextmove]

To the OP:

Firstly your girlfriend would not have been stopped by Immigration at the airport for owing someone a debt, or for not honouring a contract, not in a million years, which is a civil case. And if she had been arrested at the airport and has now been incarcerated awaiting trial, than that’s criminal and she must have committed a very serious criminal offence and been high up on the list in order to be on the wanted list at the airport.

Some questions:

How do you know your girlfriend has been arrested, imprisoned and that this is not a scam?

If you and this woman have been together for 7 years and have a child, how did you not notice that she is of shady character in the past? Or as you claim, had no idea what was going on? Because people don’t just transform into serious criminal offenders over night.

These are the same questions the police are going to ask and I have no doubts that you will be a suspect, especially considering that the alleged crime is UK related.

A few options here:

If you had nothing to do with these criminal activaties and all this has come as a complete surprise to you, than you have nothing to fear by returning to Thailand, if you still love and wish to support your girlfriend.

If you are connected with these criminal activities, or want to write the girlfriend off as a lost cause, than as some posters have already mentioned, best to stay out of Thailand.

Ok Beetlejuice I'll try and answer your questions as best I am able to.

I accept that being stopped at the airport is a serious matter and think that I have already made that clear.

As I understand there is criminal fraud under Thai law as well as civil fraud...whether crimnal fraud is enough to get you pulled in at the airport I have no idea...that is why I am trying to get at least some answers on this forum. If it is more serious than fraud in any form then the truth will eventually come out but I will not concern myself with other people trying to guess what it might or might not be. It does not take a rocket scientist to know that if you are caught with drugs at the airport you are in trouble but we could spend all day and some more on such ''tittle tattle''. If drugs were involved and they were being taken to the UK then at the very least I would be very surprised that the British police had not paid me a courtesy visit

I realise that you did not personally raise the drugs issue but it has been mentioned on this thread and while I acknowledge anything is possible idle chat such as this is not really very constructive in relation to the situation I find myself in.

How do you know your girlfriend has been arrested, imprisoned and that this is not a scam?

Well I cannot say with 100 % certainty she has been arrested and imprisoned. What I can say is that the airline confirmed that she checked in as per normal for her flights and then there was an issue with immigration and she was stopped from boarding her flight. I think we are in broad agreement that not being allowed to leave the country is usually a very serious matter so in all probability she is being held in detention. I can be no more definitive than this other than what her sister has told me which I am taking with an open mind.

More background information here...her passport was up to date,renewed about a year ago and UK visa had about 3 years to run.

If this is an elaborate scam for money then I would quite frankly be amazed. If she wanted money it would be so easy to play the ''daughter card'' once I was in Thailand. Many men have had their child held to ransom in Thailand to their great expense. She knows how much I love my daughter and is more than capable of making an educated guess that I would be prepared to pay no mean sum to gain custody.

So no I do not think this is a scam,if it is a scam then given the situation with her daughter here in the UK it is a rather stupid one because she more than anyone knows that I play a rather hard bargain when it comes to the ''sick buffalo'' story and will not blindly forward money until I have sent a doctor out to see the sick buffalo first. Better for her to get me on something a little more tangible like flesh and blood if that were her intentions.

Did I not notice she was a ''shady person''...well no actually. She did not act shady,was/is a good mother,never seemed to come into huge amounts of money and her family were not driving around the isaan countryside in a Rolls. We also travelled internationally about 3-4 times a year with no problems so presumeably no one else had noticed she was ''shady'' or breaking any major laws.

Again we are making assumptions here that she is in big trouble but yes I think it is plausible for a person of previous good character to maybe meet the wrong type of person and then be tempted by greed into some form of criminal activity....however I never dreamed it would be my partner....a British MP perhaps but not my partner.

As far as the rest goes I have already made it perfectly clear that I had no knowledge of anything being seriously wrong until I called my partner at the airport and she told me she was being held over some money she owed. I have kept within the law in Thailand ,the UK and all points in between but unlike you feel that there still might be a chance(however small) that I might be apprehended in Thailand leaving my daughter without either parent. If it was a case of travelling to say Australia or New Zealand under the same circumstances I would have no hesitation in making that trip and feel safe in the knowledge that I had done nothing wrong and there would be no case to answer and I would be protected under their legal system. I cannot say that I feel the same about what may or may not happen in Thailand and it would appear that the vast majority of people who have been good enough to offer their advice on this thread agree with me on this one.

BTW you seem to contradict yourself somewhat on this one.

In one breath you say,''If you and this woman have been together for 7 years and have a child, how did you not notice that she is of shady character in the past? Or as you claim, had no idea what was going on? Because people don’t just transform into serious criminal offenders over night.These are the same questions the police are going to ask and I have no doubts that you will be a suspect, especially considering that the alleged crime is UK related.''

....and later you then say, ''If you had nothing to do with these criminal activaties and all this has come as a complete surprise to you, than you have nothing to fear by returning to Thailand, if you still love and wish to support your girlfriend.''

So you have no doubts that I am going to be a suspect but your faith in the Thai Police is such that given that I had nothing to do with any criminal activities I have nothing to fear? Well you are entitled to your opinion but I think you would be in a minority on fully trusting the Thai police on this one.

Edited August 24, 2012 by nextmove

[JurgenG]

As submaniac said, the best option is to hire a lawyer, you may also called your local embassy for a advise. She is maybe not a UK citizen but as the mother of the child of UK citizen I believe she is entitled to some form of help.

An other reason I can see for you wife being prevented to leave the country is she may have foolishly accepted to act as guarantee for a friend or a family member who has then lost a lot of money. The other party is now asking for his money back and want to prevent your wife from leaving the country before the debt is settled. During the previous crisis, I know a couple of people who found themselves in big trouble for having signed guarantee papers for friends without really realizing what was their responsibilities if something went sour.

Edited August 24, 2012 by JurgenG

[Plucky]

Hire a Thai lawyer to sort it out but stay in UK.

Edited August 24, 2012 by pimping

[barefoot1988]

Ask the sister (or another intermediary) to visit the police and ask if your wife has been formally charged. If no then she should be released after the maximum permissible period for police questioning under Thai law.

If she has been formally charged, have your intermediary request a written copy of the charge(s) (the charge sheet).

This document can then be scanned at an internet cafe and emailed to you.

You can then take it to a Thai translation provider in your city.

Once you have the charge(s) spelled out for you in English you can then seek Thai legal assistance (if necessary).

Call six (or more) Thai lawyers. The first consultation is always free. Use skype to minimise your call costs.

Tell each lawyer the nature of the charge(s) and then ask how, if you engage him or her, they propose to move forward to resolve the matter and their estimation of the costs.

After these initial six free consultations you will have a better understanding of the problem at hand. If need be, you can then select and engage the lawyer who best answered you initial questions, speaks acceptable english, and quoted a fair price.

Stay calm and focussed and always remember that it is impossible to engineer a solution until you have properly defined the problem.

Many thanks Phronesis

Advice like this is invaluable and makes total sense...as you and others have sugested an English /Thai speaking lawyer seems to be the way to go. There is no other option really.

Rest assured I am staying calm and focussed despite the fact that some people are trying to second guess what the reason for her detention might be.

hi, i hope you are not offended from what i mentioned earlier that it isnt a simple case of fraud. im not trying to guess what kind of crime is she involved but trying to tell you it is definitely something more than serious than that. i do not think it is advisable asking your friend to contact the police directly in regards of this.

really, your best bet is to get and call a local reputable lawyer for help and advice. there are nothing tvers could help and advice you better than any self respecting lawyers. search around there are recommendation for lawyers.

[meatboy]

have you had any contact with the thai consulate in your area,whenever i wanted advice i found them more than helpfull,my wf.had a new passport from bkk when in the uk with someone else's photo in it one call to the consulate was enough.myself i think it is more serious than you have been led to believe,surely they would have let her made a phone call to you.good luck

[bendejo]

Whatever it is she is being held for, be sure that if you re-appear in Thailand that upon your arrival you will hear a great slobbering sound. This will be from the collection of people licking their chops at the spoils to be gathered from implicating a farang in a crime.

The sister's story sounds improvised, so you really have no idea what the true reason for the arrest is. The only thing you can verify is that she was detained when she tried to leave the country, and that this didn't happen on previous departures, so maybe whatever it is happened since the last time she tried to leave (or maybe not, maybe her case got lost in the machinery). It doesn't require a crystal ball to see request for $$ coming from the sister/mother in the near future "for the lawyer."

Don't even think of returning to Thailand. She can blame it all on you (whatever the 'all' is), and they will take her word over yours, that's how it works here. We don't want to see a pic of a TV member surrounded by cops with a woman pointing at him (well, depends on the member )

Do not lose sight of the fact that you have absolutely no idea what this is about.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this might be the end of the relationship. With a criminal record they may not let her into the UK. But you ended up with custody of the kid.

[billd766]

The worst thing on this thread and many others like it is that 60% or more of the poster, none of whom have any facts or knowledge about you, your wife and daughter, what may or may not have happened instantly "know" it is a scam by your wife.

If I may give four pieces of advice to you they would be

1. Get a good English speaking firm of lawyers who will have Thai lawyers as well and will know where to contact. Give them all the information and contact numbers you have.

2. Don't post anything else on this thread until you get a response from the lawyers and you understand what is/has happened.

3. You have loved and trusted your wife for 7 years so please don't stop now.

4. Do all you can to reassure your daughter that both you and her Mum love and care for her and that she will see her Mum soon.

Finally I wish you the best of luck and please let us or me know what happens in the end.

[Beetlejuice]

The worst thing on this thread and many others like it is that 60% or more of the poster, none of whom have any facts or knowledge about you, your wife and daughter, what may or may not have happened instantly "know" it is a scam by your wife.

If I may give four pieces of advice to you they would be

1. Get a good English speaking firm of lawyers who will have Thai lawyers as well and will know where to contact. Give them all the information and contact numbers you have.

2. Don't post anything else on this thread until you get a response from the lawyers and you understand what is/has happened.

3. You have loved and trusted your wife for 7 years so please don't stop now.

4. Do all you can to reassure your daughter that both you and her Mum love and care for her and that she will see her Mum soon.

Finally I wish you the best of luck and please let us or me know what happens in the end.

Best advice yet.

[jackr]

Lot of judge, jury & execution going on here. No matter what had transpired, I'd be worried and wouldn't rest until I'd found out the whole truth and that she were ok. Defo Skype a lawyer on here, or elsewhere, and get the ball rolling at least as opposed to chilling out and see what happens, me thinks. All the best.

[simple1]

OP=Just hire a lawyer. A reputable group like Tilleke & Gibbons. They can go down to the jail and talk to her to see what happened. They can talk to the police to see what she is actually charged with. They can get to the truth of this matter. Right now, you don't know diddley squat. You don't want to be poking your nose in something you don't know about. You will not know the truth unless an independent third party that is loyal to you gets to the bottom of it.

OP Tilleke & Gibbons have been highly recommended in other threads. However, they do not have criminal matters in their list of practices, so give them a call & outline your situation so they can recommend someone to you

EDIT: They do have a practice covering Private Clients so contact the partner for that specialty. Hopefully not teaching you to suck eggs, but email now with GF full Thai name, a brief outline of the situation & what advice you are seeking, so that when you call the switch in the morning Thai time you can say following up an urgent email to...

Pimvimol (June) Vipamaneerut

T: +66 2653 5588

E: [email protected]

Sasirusm (Roll) B. Chunhakasikarn

T: +66 2653 5785

E: [email protected]

Edited August 24, 2012 by simple1

[jackr]

Further. Even if she were guilty of embezzling baht, nicking the Crown Jewels, or even killing someone, you've been together all that time and she's still the wife/mother of daughter... I'd want to at least make some kind of contact to check she's not being dumped on by the system. Then it's perhaps time for the 'tough titties, do your time!'. I probably come across as hard-nosed on the Thais/women at times, but to just blank out the mother of your kid and not check what's occuring is beyond my capability, I ain't built like that. Imagine the kid asks one day, 'where's mummy, how's mummy?' Dad: 'Well, apparently, she was arested for something and the people on TV said it's best to dump here, so I don't really know'.

Not having a go at you here by the way, op, but some folk kind of say things willy-nilly.

[JcCarlin]

Stay in the UK with your daughter.

(Don't send the gf any money)

I'm always deeply suspicious of these stories, this could be a scam to get money out of you, it could be a scam to get your daughter back to Thailand, where you never see her again. Or maybe your gf is just a bad sort and you never noticed.

Your wife sounds shady and your a questionable character......

Maybe this guy is sweeping bricks under a bedside table before the building crumbles..

[Soutpeel]

OP=Just hire a lawyer. A reputable group like Tilleke & Gibbons. They can go down to the jail and talk to her to see what happened. They can talk to the police to see what she is actually charged with. They can get to the truth of this matter. Right now, you don't know diddley squat. You don't want to be poking your nose in something you don't know about. You will not know the truth unless an independent third party that is loyal to you gets to the bottom of it.

OP Tilleke & Gibbons have been highly recommended in other threads. However, they do not have criminal matters in their list of practices, so give them a call & outline your situation so they can recommend someone to you

EDIT: They do have a practice covering Private Clients so contact the partner for that specialty. Hopefully not teaching you to suck eggs, but email now with GF full Thai name, a brief outline of the situation & what advice you are seeking, so that when you call the switch in the morning Thai time you can say following up an urgent email to...

Pimvimol (June) Vipamaneerut

T: +66 2653 5588

E: [email protected]

Sasirusm (Roll) B. Chunhakasikarn

T: +66 2653 5785

E: [email protected]

I suppose the only other thing you could add to this, if she is banged up on "serious" charges, you had better decide now if you are prepared to pay the bail money which will almost certainly be required, to get her out pending trial, as I will almost guarantee none of the family will have the cash and it will be down to you to front the cash

[nextmove]

Ok I am going to leave this forum for the time being and get on with what has to be done as per billd766's advice.

The only update I can give you is that I contacted the Thai Embassy in London which was a waste of time. If I want any info from them I have to put it in writing and then they will contact the authorities in Thailand ...and in their words ''the process could take months'' before I get any details....TIT in England....

This is so frustrating..what I really want to do is go out there and sort the mess out but I cannot risk it

The other information I have,whether true or not, is that my wife is being held at Korat prison. From my search on the internet I assume that this would be the Sikhio Khlong Phai prison in Nakhon Ratchasima district but for now nothing is set in stone...I need to clarify with further calls.

It will also be interesting to see the reaction from her sister when I advise I will be instucting my own lawyer from here in the UK..maybe more information will come out at this stage as there will be no where left to run regarding the truth coming out.

I will report back from time to time with an update or immediately if I feel something new comes up on this thread that I need to follow up.

I would like to thank you all for your sound and helpful advice ...well 90 % plus helpful. I noticed a few ''mindless idiot'' posts have been removed but the vast majority of you have been very supportive...so thanks again....all I can say is that whatever has happened and however long it takes to get resolved you will all get to see that what I have posted on this forum is true and in time will be vindicated

[taninthai]

I know this is a serious matter and lawyers will have to get involved but surely if you have been together 7 years you must have mutual friends in Thailand that at least could talk to the sister and rest of family to at least get some facts straight.

[UbonOz]

I have just read the whole thread and it is a very difficult situation.

Can I suggest you contact a Thai lawyer in the UK, at least they are in the same country as you and I would assume their english would be perfect.

I just Googled Thai lawyers and there are quite a few in the UK, maybe one near where you live.

[crazykopite]

I would stay in the UK because without a doubt you will be implicated stay well clear and let the case run its course if your wife is found guilty so be it there is very little you can do about it

[jacktrip]

how is this a scam, you would pay bail to court or a lawyer, not to your gf?

[crazykopite]

To the OP:

Firstly your girlfriend would not have been stopped by Immigration at the airport for owing someone a debt, or for not honouring a contract, not in a million years, which is a civil case. And if she had been arrested at the airport and has now been incarcerated awaiting trial, than that’s criminal and she must have committed a very serious criminal offence and been high up on the list in order to be on the wanted list at the airport.

Some questions:

How do you know your girlfriend has been arrested, imprisoned and that this is not a scam?

If you and this woman have been together for 7 years and have a child, how did you not notice that she is of shady character in the past? Or as you claim, had no idea what was going on? Because people don’t just transform into serious criminal offenders over night.

These are the same questions the police are going to ask and I have no doubts that you will be a suspect, especially considering that the alleged crime is UK related.

A few options here:

If you had nothing to do with these criminal activaties and all this has come as a complete surprise to you, than you have nothing to fear by returning to Thailand, if you still love and wish to support your girlfriend.

If you are connected with these criminal activities, or want to write the girlfriend off as a lost cause, than as some posters have already mentioned, best to stay out of Thailand.

Come on Beatlejuice if this guy comes back with his daughter I am 150% sure he will be handcuffed and thrown in jail and could languish there for months without trial this is Thailand not the western world please please stay in the UK with your daughter if you are somehow implicated I have no doubt the UK cops will be paying you a visit. There is an American in Samui who has been locked up since November 2011 without trial that should tell you something !!!!!

[sotsira]

On the subject of lawyers, i would think that they can only practice within their own country

or jurisdiction, therefore only a Thai Lawyer in Thailand can be appointed to assist in this matter.

The only other way would be to hire a private investigator either from Thailand or the UK to find out what

is going on.

[roamer]

OP. I know a Thai Lawyer who lived in the UK for the last few years and has now returned to LOS. I know her as a personal friend of our family and cannot speak for her expertise in these matters but can vouch for her honesty. Even if this is outside of her area I'm sure she might be able to help with a recommendation. If you think this might be helpful then pm me and I will give you contact details.

[simple1]

OP: Quoting you "From what little information i can ascertain(i am speaking with her sister) i understand that the nature of the charge is that she took money from people on the promise that they might get some work in the UK which didn't happen. Somebody has gone to the police about this and the rest is history. I understand that an Aunt and her Mother have also been implicated and are in police custody. In my partners case i am told that the sum involved is relatively minor...maybe 30,000 thb."

It's highly likely that this scam, if true, via GF family has been going on for a while, so don't underestimate the potential challenges that your GF is going to face even though she personally may only have had a one time involvement. In the Thai English language newspapers they have mentioned a "crackdown" on this activity. Of course also a criminal offense in the UK. For your family sake I hope my assumption is incorrect.

Edited August 24, 2012 by simple1

[johna]

There are lawyers advertising on this forum, ask members if they have any personal recommendations.

This for me would be the only sensible way to go. Theft caries a 5 year jail term, for 3฿ or 300000฿

[harrry]

OP: Quoting you "From what little information i can ascertain(i am speaking with her sister) i understand that the nature of the charge is that she took money from people on the promise that they might get some work in the UK which didn't happen. Somebody has gone to the police about this and the rest is history. I understand that an Aunt and her Mother have also been implicated and are in police custody. In my partners case i am told that the sum involved is relatively minor...maybe 30,000 thb."

It's highly likely that this scam, if true, via GF family has been going on for a while, so don't underestimate the potential challenges that your GF is going to face even though she personally may only have had a one time involvement. In the Thai English language newspapers they have mentioned a "crackdown" on this activity. Of course also a criminal offense in the UK. For your family sake I hope my assumption is incorrect.

Sad

When will thai girls wake up that their helping others by buying and selling goods or services often causes more problems than it is worth. Most thais I know will offer peopl e land and other things to sell from others and take a small comission. I had to suggest to my wife that what we got from this is not worth it financially and the risk of losing friends if the deal did not work out was not worth it.

It seems she has been caught up in something like this and it has turned serious. It does not necescarily mean she is bad but the consequences could be very serious to her and to your relationship. I hope things work.

Edited August 25, 2012 by harrry

[tinfoilhat]

i cannot for the life of me see how you would be implicated, but for the sake of the kid, i would not venture back to Thailand unless i were alone.