Amazing Chiang Mai

[svenivan]

I just read this article in TRWeekly: http://www.ttrweekly...sport-problems/

and it was interesting how hard they are working to make CM more interesting for tourists.

"The province also needs more tourist attractions and the organisation will initiate a project ‘One District One Attraction’ that will focus on 25 districts in the province.

The project started two years ago and we have identified two attractions in two districts — a forest like China’s Zhangjiajie Kad Muang Phi (spiritual market in Lanna ) in Chai Prakan and Pha Wing Chu Cliff in Hot where the Ping River passes through a gorge that has similar features to the Grand Canyon.”

Will it take another 10-12 years to find the other 23 special attractions?

But most interesting was this!

“We believe the construction of the first high speed railway project should start next year and be ready in three years, connecting Bangkok and Chiang Mai. This was confirmed by PM Yingluck who believes it will boost tourism to the province.

“It will reduce travelling time from Bangkok to Chiang Mai from seven hours to three and a half hours and will carry more travellers than other modes of transport.”

The Bangkok-Chiang Mai high speed railway will span over 745 km and trains will reach a cruising speed of 250 kph."

As I say, Amazing Chiang Mai !

[uptheos]

Heard they're relocating Nana Plaza up here, that will bring loads of tourists.

[Ulysses G.]

Seven hours? I am not sure that I've ever made it in less than 15. The Chiang Mai-Bangkok run is always late.

[uptheos]

“We believe the construction of the first high speed railway project should start next year and be ready in three years, connecting Bangkok and Chiang Mai"

Will they be making a track each way?.

[LawrenceChee]

No way ...the distance is doable if they can be disciplined about it but ...a big but yet cannot get a straight track that speed will not be doable

[uptheos]

No way ...the distance is doable if they can be disciplined about it but ...a big but yet cannot get a straight track that speed will not be doable

When they can do one track each way, then I'll say they are improving.

[jez56]

“It will reduce travelling time from Bangkok to Chiang Mai from seven hours to three and a half hours . . ."

It has never taken me more than about 70 minutes. Plus check-in time.

And only a three-year construction period for 745km of line? I assume all the existing track will have to be torn up and the track bed relaid and new track supplied, in order to provide a strong and super-smooth ride for these 250km/h trains. Working six days a week, three years will be about 900 working days. So that's getting on for 1km of line surveyed, torn up, regraded, relaid and tested every day. Or about 100 metres per working hour. Sounds ambitious to me, to put it mildly. Maybe they plan to work on the line at several places at once.

[muchogra]

No way ...the distance is doable if they can be disciplined about it but ...a big but yet cannot get a straight track that speed will not be doable

When they can do one track each way, then I'll say they are improving.

Should they name the one-way track: "Track of No Return" then? Sounds international to me, like River of No Return whih most people know.

[NancyL]

No way ...the distance is doable if they can be disciplined about it but ...a big but yet cannot get a straight track that speed will not be doable

When they can do one track each way, then I'll say they are improving.

Should they name the one-way track: "Track of No Return" then? Sounds international to me, like River of No Return whih most people know.

The current track is a single track, with sidings at strategic locations. I don't really mind -- I'm not in a hurry or else I'd fly. When the train pulls into a siding to let another train pass (happens very frequently), they keep the aircon and beer flowing. I'm a happy traveler for the entire 12-14 hr trip!

Edited August 28, 2012 by NancyL

[LawrenceChee]

I like a bit is nostalgic ride so the long ride does not bother me

If there are so many tourists as yingluck claims just get the airports right again and the budget airlines should bring the mobs needed for the tourist low season ...u don't need a high speed train for that

....unless the eventual plan as mentioned by premier Wen Jia Bao happens to link them all to kunming then yea u need a high speed train to bring all the unsold rice up !

[voracious]

I'd ride it.

If they get the Chinese involved and monitor quality control carefully, it can be splendid. The one out of Shanghai was very pleasant to ride and did get up to around 250 or so.

For maglev they'll be laying all new track, though if that's what they're doing.

[ramrod711]

“It will reduce travelling time from Bangkok to Chiang Mai from seven hours to three and a half hours and will carry more travellers than other modes of transport.”

obviously Yingluck has never taken the train, I believe she likes to travel by helicopter.

[FolkGuitar]

Question: Would YOU trust a Thai train driver to go 250K per hour? On Thai-made curves? Through Thai-made rail crossings?

Just a consideration...

[chiang mai]

Question: Would YOU trust a Thai train driver to go 250K per hour? On Thai-made curves? Through Thai-made rail crossings?

Just a consideration...

I don't intend this to be derogatory towards Thai's in general but I would be nervous about their ability to construct such a beast.

[Dellboy218]

I'd ride it.

If they get the Chinese involved and monitor quality control carefully, it can be splendid. The one out of Shanghai was very pleasant to ride and did get up to around 250 or so.

For maglev they'll be laying all new track, though if that's what they're doing.

The one from Shanghai to Suzhou does around 320kph, very smooth and with plenty of room. The railway station as you know is more like a very good airport terminal. The Maglev from the airport into town is capable of over 400kph. Very impressive.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm used to riding the Shinkansen, Japan's 'Bullet Train.' Wonderful. The seats are comfortable, the air conditioning/ heating are spot on, the toilets are clean and work every time. When the schedule says they will leave at 11:03, they leave at 11:03. If the schedule says they will arrive at 7:46, they arrive at 7:46. Not 7:45 or 7:48. 7:46.

The last time I took the train from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, it was only one day late. I thought that was pretty good. I have no complaints. I'd prefer to take a slow train that gets there, rather than a fast train that might not. We've all lived in Thailand long enough to know that implying that construction 'might not be up to standards' isn't being 'derogatory.' It's being realistic. Flood Control, anyone?

[noise]

Svenivan

Did you say this new project is called One DOA?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Question: Would YOU trust a Thai train driver to go 250K per hour? On Thai-made curves? Through Thai-made rail crossings?

Just a consideration...

And YOU apparently do trust a Thai pilot to go 800K per hour, between Thai made airports, staffed by Thai traffic controllers.

next.

[FolkGuitar]

Question: Would YOU trust a Thai train driver to go 250K per hour? On Thai-made curves? Through Thai-made rail crossings?

Just a consideration...

And YOU apparently do trust a Thai pilot to go 800K per hour, between Thai made airports, staffed by Thai traffic controllers.

next.

I guess it's a matter of "International Standards Organization" ("ISO") vs "Sort of High, Improbable, or Tits-up" ("SHIT")

[muchogra]

No way ...the distance is doable if they can be disciplined about it but ...a big but yet cannot get a straight track that speed will not be doable

When they can do one track each way, then I'll say they are improving.

Should they name the one-way track: "Track of No Return" then? Sounds international to me, like River of No Return whih most people know.

The current track is a single track, with sidings at strategic locations. I don't really mind -- I'm not in a hurry or else I'd fly. When the train pulls into a siding to let another train pass (happens very frequently), they keep the aircon and beer flowing. I'm a happy traveler for the entire 12-14 hr trip!

Nancy, i hope they don't keep the beer and lao kow flowing among the trainmen and the traffic directors. Professional standards, responsibility, and accountability are not strong traits in this country as many would tend to agree.

I have no qualm about them building the high-speed train. I'm just being skeptical about the time frame they promise of getting the job done. I remember there recently was an accident of a high-speed train running from Shanghai to Beijing in China. Rumor had it that it was a hurried job to complete the job on time - face issue, you know?

A high-speed train would certainly benefit many people traveling between CM and BKK. However, I would rather have them to use the money to improve the present railway system and more importantly build more railway miles to facility the transport of goods and merchandises within the country. Afterall, trains can move a lot of goods and merchandises at lower cost which may benefit more people within the country.

Edited August 29, 2012 by muchogra

[muchogra]

Oh, and I may add that more than a hundred people (not exactly sure but am sure many) died in the high-speed train accident when it went off-track.

[uptheos]

The current trains are re-assuringly slow.

[beb]

I'd ride it.

If they get the Chinese involved and monitor quality control carefully, it can be splendid. The one out of Shanghai was very pleasant to ride and did get up to around 250 or so.

For maglev they'll be laying all new track, though if that's what they're doing.

As I understand it, the Chinese high speed trains have been a disaster. Too expensive for average citizens, they've had to reduce the speed on most if not all because they are unsafe at the speeds they are supposed to run at and had plenty of embarrassing setbacks. I think the govt. official in charge is in prison now.

bb

[LawrenceChee]

The accident was a signal box error and in all fairness this could happen to any country as it has

While I work in china , I take the trains almost twice - 4 times a month on the high speed ones ...

I encourage everyone to try the he xie Hao lines which are their latest ...maybe u can see pictures on seat61.com these trains are amazing and more convenient than a plane ride as it gets u right in the city

The 1st class sleepers have flat screen tv and all the mods of a hotel room night and with charging stations for your iPads iPhones etc

Good restaurant service onboard and the ticket is not as expensive as u think it would ...slightly lower than an economy seat on a flight but with all the perks of the room , you get better value than a cramped seat on the plane

Train stations in big cities have modern facilities and ticket boots with English speaking staff

[moe666]

“It will reduce travelling time from Bangkok to Chiang Mai from seven hours to three and a half hours . . ."

It has never taken me more than about 70 minutes. Plus check-in time.

And only a three-year construction period for 745km of line? I assume all the existing track will have to be torn up and the track bed relaid and new track supplied, in order to provide a strong and super-smooth ride for these 250km/h trains. Working six days a week, three years will be about 900 working days. So that's getting on for 1km of line surveyed, torn up, regraded, relaid and tested every day. Or about 100 metres per working hour. Sounds ambitious to me, to put it mildly. Maybe they plan to work on the line at several places at once.

In Thailand time stands still if Big T mandates it

[moe666]

Question: Would YOU trust a Thai train driver to go 250K per hour? On Thai-made curves? Through Thai-made rail crossings?

Just a consideration...

Have you rode the skytrain in Bangkok, built with Thai, Burmese, and Cambodian labour. very good accident record.

[uptheos]

Question: Would YOU trust a Thai train driver to go 250K per hour? On Thai-made curves? Through Thai-made rail crossings?

Just a consideration...

Have you rode the skytrain in Bangkok, built with Thai, Burmese, and Cambodian labour. very good accident record.

Not quite the same as something going 250 K per hour.

[eyecatcher]

“It will reduce travelling time from Bangkok to Chiang Mai from seven hours to three and a half hours . . ."

It has never taken me more than about 70 minutes. Plus check-in time.

And only a three-year construction period for 745km of line? I assume all the existing track will have to be torn up and the track bed relaid and new track supplied, in order to provide a strong and super-smooth ride for these 250km/h trains. Working six days a week, three years will be about 900 working days. So that's getting on for 1km of line surveyed, torn up, regraded, relaid and tested every day. Or about 100 metres per working hour. Sounds ambitious to me, to put it mildly. Maybe they plan to work on the line at several places at once.

Yes if its a mono rail........dont forget one track has 2 lines of steel, if they are maling a dual track thats 4 lines of 750km.

so even moooore ambitious. so thats 400m of track laid in one hour..........lets go for a 10yr building period

[eyecatcher]

The current trains are re-assuringly slow.

Would it be fair to say this is typical:

The CM-BKK train is creeping along slowly. Finally it comes to a halt. A passenger sees the conductor walking by outside

"whats going on?" she yells.

"cow on the track" the conductor replies

Ten minutes later the train resumes its slow pace but within 5 minutes it stops again.

The woman sees the conductor walk by again so leans out the window and yells

"whats up; did we catch up with the cow again?"

its not that slow...surely?

[jamesbrock]

“It will reduce travelling time from Bangkok to Chiang Mai from seven hours to three and a half hours . . ."

It has never taken me more than about 70 minutes. Plus check-in time.

And only a three-year construction period for 745km of line? I assume all the existing track will have to be torn up and the track bed relaid and new track supplied, in order to provide a strong and super-smooth ride for these 250km/h trains. Working six days a week, three years will be about 900 working days. So that's getting on for 1km of line surveyed, torn up, regraded, relaid and tested every day. Or about 100 metres per working hour. Sounds ambitious to me, to put it mildly. Maybe they plan to work on the line at several places at once.

Yes if its a mono rail........dont forget one track has 2 lines of steel, if they are maling a dual track thats 4 lines of 750km.

so even moooore ambitious. so thats 400m of track laid in one hour..........lets go for a 10yr building period

Notwithstanding the pure fantasy of this project's timeline, you're all neglecting one inescapable fact: it simply can not happen without a change of gauge.

The existing track gauge in Thailand is 1000mm between rails, and is part of the narrow gauge (NG) group, which accounts for less than 17% of the world's railways. The current maximum speeds on NG for passenger traffic is 160km/h on Queensland Rail tracks - and they use specially engineered 'tilt-trains' in order to maintain stability around curves at those speeds. Ever wonder why so many trains derail, or simply topple over, every year in Thailand?

Standard gauge (SG) tracks are 1435mm between rails, ± 32% wider than SG tracks, which permits a ± 32% higher centre of gravity or a higher speed around curves. (Minimum curve radii on SG lines are seldom set above 1000m, as this will not restrict speeds around curves for the conventional NG speed range of up to 130km/h. SG rolling stock can safely negotiate these curves at 15% (√1.32) higher speeds than similar NG rolling stock.) As has been discussed, world's best practices in SG operations employ speeds that are way ahead of current NG technologies, and mean that, in order to achieve the proposed maximum speeds of this line, a change of gauge simply has to occur.

SG has a number of substantial advantages over NG such as speed, stability, volumetric vehicle size, volume and quality of R&D, mass production of rolling stock, and sheer economy of scale. SG locomotives can fit stronger motors, producing better tractive effort, and as a result can be two to three times less expensive than NG locomotives based on a cost per kN tractive effort basis.

Converting the gauge of even a small rail network like Thailand's would be an engineering challenge of monumental proportions. The most practical and least disruptive methodology would be to convert everything to dual gauge - but even this would require the replacement of every sleeper, additional ballast, and the relocation of thousands of existing structures and items along the line that were built to the original NG permissible structure profiles.

Next fantasy project!