The All New Nissan Syphilis!

[bkkjames]

begs the question Rix, why only front passengers need to wear a seatbelt here in TH? sorry not specific to the Syphilis but kinda goes hand in hand with your last post.

[rixalex]

begs the question Rix, why only front passengers need to wear a seatbelt here in TH? sorry not specific to the Syphilis but kinda goes hand in hand with your last post.

Think you'll find all cars here are fitted with them in the back. Getting people to use them is obviously a different matter. Was the same in the West until recently. Need a combination of laws and education to change the mindset. Good thing about airbags is they even work on untrained monkeys.

[mogandave]

begs the question Rix, why only front passengers need to wear a seatbelt here in TH? sorry not specific to the Syphilis but kinda goes hand in hand with your last post.

Think you'll find all cars here are fitted with them in the back. Getting people to use them is obviously a different matter. Was the same in the West until recently. Need a combination of laws and education to change the mindset. Good thing about airbags is they even work on untrained monkeys.

Or you could just let people die where and how they see fit.

[mogandave]

Many people do not want to pay an addtitional US$600-1,000 a pop (no pun intended) for airbags.

Well i think regardless, they should be fitted to all cars as standard now, as they have been proven to save lives. Not in every instance of course, but then not in every instance do seat belts save lives, but they up your chances in most situations considerably.

The 55 mph speed limit in the US was a proven life (and fuel) saver, want to see that reinstituted?

[rixalex]

Many people do not want to pay an addtitional US$600-1,000 a pop (no pun intended) for airbags.

Well i think regardless, they should be fitted to all cars as standard now, as they have been proven to save lives. Not in every instance of course, but then not in every instance do seat belts save lives, but they up your chances in most situations considerably.

The 55 mph speed limit in the US was a proven life (and fuel) saver, want to see that reinstituted?

Let's do away with speed limits then and just let people drive at 200kph around Bangkok. If they die, they die. Such is life... or should that be, such is death.

You can take things to extremes. You can say, ban all cars, that will save lives. Just becomes a silly argument.

[mogandave]

Reducing the speed limit also helps save the life of pedestrians and occupants of vehicles not at fault. Airbags only help save the life of the person sitting behind it. Unfortunately, the speed limit only applies to the poor, as the rich generally grease the heat here.

So you want everyone to pay a couple thousand dollars extra to make the cars a little safer, but you think being forced to drive a little slower is too extreme.

I think airbags ought to be options and people can buy them or not.

[rixalex]

So you want everyone to pay a couple thousand dollars extra to make the cars a little safer, but you think being forced to drive a little slower is too extreme.

I don't want people to pay extra, i want car manufacturer's supply them as standard and incorporate them into their costs.

As for speed limits, that's an irrelevant discussion in Thailand because as you know, they are not being enforced. If they made the speed limit 55kph tomorrow, people wouldn't drive any slower, just that the police would have more opportunity for tea money.

[mogandave]

So you want everyone to pay a couple thousand dollars extra to make the cars a little safer, but you think being forced to drive a little slower is too extreme.

I don't want people to pay extra, i want car manufacturer's supply them as standard and incorporate them into their costs.

As for speed limits, that's an irrelevant discussion in Thailand because as you know, they are not being enforced. If they made the speed limit 55kph tomorrow, people wouldn't drive any slower, just that the police would have more opportunity for tea money.

So do you think automakers should make less on each car or raise the price of the cars to offset the cost of the airbags?

[bkkjames]

The jaded part of me says that the only reason we see all these new safety features is we make so many cars here for export to 'safety' nations in the west.

Why don't taxis here have seatbelts in the rear? Anyways, not about the new syphilis = a different topic.

back to syphilis, Rix when are you getting yours?

[ignis]

I think airbags ought to be options and people can buy them or not.

ABS and Airbags is not something that you can pop into a shop and buy as an aftermarket item..........

My thinking anyway is that ALL cars and pickups should be fitted with them, do away with some of the other items that you can go and buy/fit as an aftermarket option...

Many new cars/pickups have NO ABS or Airbags, but have DVD, reverse sensors etc.. all models have a higher model version with ABS and Airbags so the cost is not that great to fit while building.. No name but new car out in July the top model cost 49k more and has ABS, Airbags, Leather, folding electric mirrors + other items as standard.......... the 49k cheaper model NO ABS, NO Airbags, NO Leather, NO Electric folding mirrors and so on.

As for the Sylphy, price looks good compared to say the Altis

[mogandave]

I think airbags ought to be options and people can buy them or not.

ABS and Airbags is not something that you can pop into a shop and buy as an aftermarket item..........

Well, actually you can get ABS and airbags in the aftermarket, BUT when I said they ought to be optional, I meant optional from the manufacturer.

Why should a guy be forced to buy safety equipment he does not want?

Why should a guy be forced to buy the top model if he wants additional safety equipment?

A motorcyclist can ride around in a T-shirt and flip-flops, but you want the government to force people driving cars to buy an airbag, I don’t get it.

[BSJ]

Oh my god! The management team must have had one big bag of magic mushrooms the day they signed of on that thing.

[ignis]

Why should a guy be forced to buy safety equipment he does not want?

OK ABS and Airbags is a can or worms................but then how many people do you see drive with there windows open, yet almost all new cars have electric windows..... how many do you see here use there wing mirrors ? added to that most are electric.No option but to have CD/MP3..

So why should a guy be forced to buy equipment he does not use or want?

[rixalex]

So you want everyone to pay a couple thousand dollars extra to make the cars a little safer, but you think being forced to drive a little slower is too extreme.

I don't want people to pay extra, i want car manufacturer's supply them as standard and incorporate them into their costs.

As for speed limits, that's an irrelevant discussion in Thailand because as you know, they are not being enforced. If they made the speed limit 55kph tomorrow, people wouldn't drive any slower, just that the police would have more opportunity for tea money.

So do you think automakers should make less on each car or raise the price of the cars to offset the cost of the airbags?

That's up to the automaker. Automakers should be forced to make their cares safer, if they refuse to do so of their own accord, but they shouldn't be forced to sell their cars for certain prices. If making them fit airbags as standard means they put up the price, up to them, but as always with increasing prices, they have to consider what affect that will have on their sales.

At the end of the day, i think you will find, it being the competitive market that it is, making them fit airbags as standard won't do much at all, if anything, to the price they sell for. Certainly that bears true with car prices in Europe after air bags became compulsory.

[mogandave]

Why should a guy be forced to buy safety equipment he does not want?

OK ABS and Airbags is a can or worms................but then how many people do you see drive with there windows open, yet almost all new cars have electric windows..... how many do you see here use there wing mirrors ? added to that most are electric.No option but to have CD/MP3..

So why should a guy be forced to buy equipment he does not use or want?

He should not.

[mogandave]

So you want everyone to pay a couple thousand dollars extra to make the cars a little safer, but you think being forced to drive a little slower is too extreme.

I don't want people to pay extra, i want car manufacturer's supply them as standard and incorporate them into their costs.

As for speed limits, that's an irrelevant discussion in Thailand because as you know, they are not being enforced. If they made the speed limit 55kph tomorrow, people wouldn't drive any slower, just that the police would have more opportunity for tea money.

So do you think automakers should make less on each car or raise the price of the cars to offset the cost of the airbags?

That's up to the automaker. Automakers should be forced to make their cares safer, if they refuse to do so of their own accord, but they shouldn't be forced to sell their cars for certain prices. If making them fit airbags as standard means they put up the price, up to them, but as always with increasing prices, they have to consider what affect that will have on their sales.

At the end of the day, i think you will find, it being the competitive market that it is, making them fit airbags as standard won't do much at all, if anything, to the price they sell for. Certainly that bears true with car prices in Europe after air bags became compulsory.

When all cars have to have them, the price goes up on all cars. Are you saying that cars i Europe cost no more now then before the airbag mandate? What year was that?

[rixalex]

When all cars have to have them, the price goes up on all cars. Are you saying that cars i Europe cost no more now then before the airbag mandate? What year was that?

Prices always tend to go up over time (although in relative terms i think cars in Europe have actually come down in cost) but i think that has much more to do with inflation and the general and varied expenses involved in running a massive corporation. Adding more features to the product is all part of keeping your product competitive and up-to-date.

[rixalex]

So why should a guy be forced to buy equipment he does not use or want?

He should not.

So for the guy who doesn't want any seats in the back because he only ever travels alone, the car maker should make a special model for him without rear seats at a reduced price otherwise it is not fair?

At the end of the day, most cars come with a host of features, some we find useful, some less so, but this is a mass manufactured product we are talking about, not something hand made to order.

[mogandave]

When all cars have to have them, the price goes up on all cars. Are you saying that cars i Europe cost no more now then before the airbag mandate? What year was that?

Prices always tend to go up over time (although in relative terms i think cars in Europe have actually come down in cost) but i think that has much more to do with inflation and the general and varied expenses involved in running a massive corporation. Adding more features to the product is all part of keeping your product competitive and up-to-date.

Have the costs come down relative to the cost of a new big screen or the cost of gold?

Regardless of how well intentioned a mandate is, manufacturers have to maintain their margin or they go out of business. You may think they eat the cost, but when the government mandates all cars have to have something, the price just goes up across the board. It does not hurt the rich guy buy an S500, but it is hard on the poor guy buying a March.

The cost of the components are reflected in the price of the car, and the base model in a line (generally) provides the manufacturer with the lowest margin. They often only put the airbags on the top models, forcing customers that want airbags to buy the top model.

[mogandave]

So why should a guy be forced to buy equipment he does not use or want?

He should not.

So for the guy who doesn't want any seats in the back because he only ever travels alone, the car maker should make a special model for him without rear seats at a reduced price otherwise it is not fair?

At the end of the day, most cars come with a host of features, some we find useful, some less so, but this is a mass manufactured product we are talking about, not something hand made to order.

The guy that doesn’t want any seats in the back can buy a truck or a sports car, that’s how the market works. The government does not mandate vehicles have a back seat, if they did, you would not be able to buy a two-door pickup or a Corvette.

The percentage of people that would rather not spend an additional thousand dollars (or more) to put airbags in their March is much larger than the number of people that would like to save a couple hundred by ordering it without the back seat.

[rixalex]

Have the costs come down relative to the cost of a new big screen or the cost of gold?

Costs have come down (in the UK at least) relative to people's earnings and the cost of living. Even luxury cars have become a lot more affordable. When i was young, you had to be quite seriously rich to own a Mercedes Benz, a company director type. Now, you don't even need to be in middle-management to afford one.

Regardless of how well intentioned a mandate is, manufacturers have to maintain their margin or they go out of business.

And part of maintaining margin is making your product affordable and desirable, because then they are easy to sell.

You may think they eat the cost, but when the government mandates all cars have to have something, the price just goes up across the board. It does not hurt the rich guy buy an S500, but it is hard on the poor guy buying a March.

As i said, I don't think prices necessarily do go up across the board. Technology doesn't just advance in terms of how sophisticated it is, it advances in terms of how cheaply it can be made. If air bags were never made mandatory and were now still only available on top range cars, they would be very expensive, but as almost every car is fitted with one these days, the research and development into making them cheaply has sped on to the point that they now cost a fraction of what they used to.

[rixalex]

The guy that doesn’t want any seats in the back can buy a truck or a sports car, that’s how the market works.

The guy doesn't want a truck or a sports car. He wants a small car that is cheap to run and easy to park... without back seats.

One minute you are advocating nobody be forced into paying for equipment they don't use, and the next you are telling the guy who wants the small car without the back seats, tough titties he'll have to buy something else.

Well, my feeling is for all the lives that have been saved by the mandatory fitting of air bags, it's tough titties to those who oppose that policy just because they aren't so bothered about their safety.

[mogandave]

The guy that doesn’t want any seats in the back can buy a truck or a sports car, that’s how the market works.

The guy doesn't want a truck or a sports car. He wants a small car that is cheap to run and easy to park... without back seats.

One minute you are advocating nobody be forced into paying for equipment they don't use, and the next you are telling the guy who wants the small car without the back seats, tough titties he'll have to buy something else.

Well, my feeling is for all the lives that have been saved by the mandatory fitting of air bags, it's tough titties to those who oppose that policy just because they aren't so bothered about their safety.

Again, and I understand how confusing this must be for you, but the government is not mandating cars be fitted with back seats.

You like the idea of the government forcing everyone to buy an airbag, apparently because it makes it cheaper for you, I do not, so be it.

[rixalex]

You like the idea of the government forcing everyone to buy an airbag, apparently because it makes it cheaper for you, I do not, so be it.

I like the idea of the government forcing everyone to buy an airbag because it is an easy and practical way to save lives, and by forcing it, the price comes down to the point where everyone can afford to have airbags in their car, not just the rich. That is what i call progress. Anyway, as i think you too surmise, we will have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps we can get back to syphilis now!