A Selfish Attitude

[nontabury]

She couldn't be from Yorkshire,could she, where they say

If thee's goner do sumut for nowt,do it fee tha self.

It's well know that someone from Yorkshire, wouldn't give you t'drips off their nose.

In fact a Yorkshireman chucks 'is brass around like a man wi no arms.

[GuestHouse]

This idea that poverty breeds selfishness (or should I better say 'breeds a focus on looking after oneself and one's own family) needs challenging.

It has been my experience that the poorer people are the more open they are to helping others. Its a lesson I learned young. As a child I was encouraged by my parents to help with local charities, one such example of helping out was delivering and then collecting 'War on Want' envelopes. Some of you may recall them, dropped through the door one day, collected a week later.

I hated doing the collection around the wealthier homes, more times than not I'd be told to bugger off, or indeed I'd be treated to the 'Charity begins at home lecture'.

Collecting around the local government housing estates or the old people's bungalows was a different matter all together, people almost always made a donation and very often had kind words for a kid helping out.

I've seen this behaviour repeated time and time again - A member of staff dies in a road accident, the lower paid staff dig deep and make a donation to the family of the deceased, the better off duck and dive trying not to give anything.

I've also seen the behaviour the OP reports too many times here in Thailand to pass it off as not a significant cultural issue.

The best example I've come across is when an expat friend asked if I was free on the weekend to help him release some fish he'd been breeding - Some fish was thousands and thousands of fish he'd raised in a huge pond he'd built for the purpose.

We spent the whole morning pumping out water, catching fish and loading them into containers - Just the two of us, I assumed his wife was out for the day. She was not.

When it was time to head down to the lake he went in the house and came back out again with his very grumpy looking wife. She climbs in the pick-up and we go to the lake, she gets out of the pick-up and stands about 30 meters away, clearly not going to get involved. But at least quiet.

Quiet that is until we poured the first bucket of fish into the lake - at that very moment she went bloody ballistic - ranting that her family could eat the fish, that those people (pointing at total strangers who had come to help out) where going to eat the fish.

Of course not all Thai people are like this, but the focus on the family and the disregard for people outside the family is a recognised cultural trait which of course has some negative impacts. The example I've given and the experience of the OP are I believe are rooted in that family first mentality.

[theblether]

Quiet that is until we poured the first bucket of fish into the lake - at that very moment she went bloody ballistic - ranting that her family could eat the fish, that those people (pointing at total strangers who had come to help out) where going to eat the fish.

Of course not all Thai people are like this, but the focus on the family and the disregard for people outside the family is a recognised cultural trait which of course has some negative impacts. The example I've given and the experience of the OP are I believe are rooted in that family first mentality.

I've read those two paragraph's several times GuestHouse........it really is food for thought. ( no pun intended ).

[DaBloodyMess]

Quiet that is until we poured the first bucket of fish into the lake - at that very moment she went bloody ballistic - ranting that her family could eat the fish, that those people (pointing at total strangers who had come to help out) where going to eat the fish.

Of course not all Thai people are like this, but the focus on the family and the disregard for people outside the family is a recognised cultural trait which of course has some negative impacts. The example I've given and the experience of the OP are I believe are rooted in that family first mentality.

I've read those two paragraph's several times GuestHouse........it really is food for thought. ( no pun intended ).

I am glad I wasnt the only one, I have read it a few times.

In the past I have thought of the Thai (and generally Asian) idea of a very tight extended family as a good thing. But I guess it can also have an ugly side with it possibly promoting a very insular, almost selfish outlook on life.

[maxme]

Quiet that is until we poured the first bucket of fish into the lake - at that very moment she went bloody ballistic - ranting that her family could eat the fish, that those people (pointing at total strangers who had come to help out) where going to eat the fish.

Of course not all Thai people are like this, but the focus on the family and the disregard for people outside the family is a recognised cultural trait which of course has some negative impacts. The example I've given and the experience of the OP are I believe are rooted in that family first mentality.

I've read those two paragraph's several times GuestHouse........it really is food for thought. ( no pun intended ).

I am glad I wasnt the only one, I have read it a few times.

In the past I have thought of the Thai (and generally Asian) idea of a very tight extended family as a good thing. But I guess it can also have an ugly side with it possibly promoting a very insular, almost selfish outlook on life.

In no way am I apologizing for their behavior but it's in a way logic that they would follow such a path when the elite of Thailand promote it. Most of the workers families sit and watch every soap series which seems to be only about rich people and how hard their lives are with the evil step-mom and the scheming daughter with her faithful maid planning evil deeds...

it's not hard to understand that most of these people watching these horrible shows adopt a

materialistic and egocentric point of view towards life as everybody else seems to have better than them. A rather simplistic and non helpful thinking but that's what the elite has created and that's the way they want it.

Edited September 1, 2012 by maxme

[theblether]

It's quite breathtaking.........in the situation as described by GH I would be looking at the woman and wondering who is this monster?

I'm all for adopting learning and absorbing the gentle aspects of Thai culture but that is a no go zone for me, from what I can deduce that gentleman was working for the greater good, and in a way that I think many of us would admire and he is being subjected to that?

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

There are some parts of our culture that we should cherish and be very proud of, and our Thai partners should learn to accept and respect them just as we try to learn and respect their culture.

That's the whole point of inter-cultural relationships.....learning to give and take and to absorb the best of both worlds.

[garrya]

It's quite breathtaking.........in the situation as described by GH I would be looking at the woman and wondering who is this monster?

I'm all for adopting learning and absorbing the gentle aspects of Thai culture but that is a no go zone for me, from what I can deduce that gentleman was working for the greater good, and in a way that I think many of us would admire and he is being subjected to that?

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

There are some parts of our culture that we should cherish and be very proud of, and our Thai partners should learn to accept and respect them just as we try to learn and respect their culture.

That's the whole point of inter-cultural relationships.....learning to give and take and to absorb the best of both worlds.

As for the first sentence, you might need to spend more time around and will wonder a lot... (nothing special just an ordinary behaviour)

It's nice to see people are trying to learn and absorb, something, called Thai culture, but do they make any effort to do the same?

You mentioned before "we are only guests here", so why would they pay attention to what we think or believe?

GuestHouse's last two sentences summed it up well.

[katana]

My simplistic take on it was women like clothes and shoes etc. She thought it strange for you to take it upon yourself to get rid of them for her. Maybe you have a large collection of something that you wouldn't want to give away too, if asked.

[bkkjames]

Very little face to be gained in acts of random individualized charity. Thankfully not everyone is concerned with giving in order to keep up with the jones' , somchais etc. They do it just for the sake of it.

Selfishness is conditioned into us sadly. One random act of kindness per day I say....not to hard me thinks. Doesnt have to be about money all the time, how about opening a door for someone or holding it open as you walk through?

Now the next as...hole to jump in front of me at 711 is going to get it!

[theblether]

It's quite breathtaking.........in the situation as described by GH I would be looking at the woman and wondering who is this monster?

I'm all for adopting learning and absorbing the gentle aspects of Thai culture but that is a no go zone for me, from what I can deduce that gentleman was working for the greater good, and in a way that I think many of us would admire and he is being subjected to that?

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

There are some parts of our culture that we should cherish and be very proud of, and our Thai partners should learn to accept and respect them just as we try to learn and respect their culture.

That's the whole point of inter-cultural relationships.....learning to give and take and to absorb the best of both worlds.

As for the first sentence, you might need to spend more time around and will wonder a lot... (nothing special just an ordinary behaviour)

It's nice to see people are trying to learn and absorb, something, called Thai culture, but do they make any effort to do the same?

You mentioned before "we are only guests here", so why would they pay attention to what we think or believe?

GuestHouse's last two sentences summed it up well.

Very valid points however being the argumentative type I need to highlight something to you............I did say........

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

So while I wouldn't pretend that I could influence the general Thai population, or attempt to change Thai culture.........I would make a point of ensuring that my beloved knew that was intolerable behaviour to me.

I know my limitations, but I also know what I'm prepared to NOT accept.

[David48]

It's quite breathtaking.........in the situation as described by GH I would be looking at the woman and wondering who is this monster?

I'm all for adopting learning and absorbing the gentle aspects of Thai culture but that is a no go zone for me, from what I can deduce that gentleman was working for the greater good, and in a way that I think many of us would admire and he is being subjected to that?

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

There are some parts of our culture that we should cherish and be very proud of, and our Thai partners should learn to accept and respect them just as we try to learn and respect their culture.

That's the whole point of inter-cultural relationships.....learning to give and take and to absorb the best of both worlds.

Just playing the devil’s advocate for a second …

Would your reaction be different if that act occurred in Thailand or the UK?

Is there a Cultural trait that we, in our Western Culture, think of ourselves and our well-being first and the community at large a (sometimes) close second.

That Thai’s think of the Family unit first before one’s self importance and the community in general?

Interested in reading other's opinions ...

.

[loong]

....................................................................

I've also seen the behaviour the OP reports too many times here in Thailand to pass it off as not a significant cultural issue.

The best example I've come across is when an expat friend asked if I was free on the weekend to help him release some fish he'd been breeding - Some fish was thousands and thousands of fish he'd raised in a huge pond he'd built for the purpose.

We spent the whole morning pumping out water, catching fish and loading them into containers - Just the two of us, I assumed his wife was out for the day. She was not.

When it was time to head down to the lake he went in the house and came back out again with his very grumpy looking wife. She climbs in the pick-up and we go to the lake, she gets out of the pick-up and stands about 30 meters away, clearly not going to get involved. But at least quiet.

Quiet that is until we poured the first bucket of fish into the lake - at that very moment she went bloody ballistic - ranting that her family could eat the fish, that those people (pointing at total strangers who had come to help out) where going to eat the fish.

Of course not all Thai people are like this, but the focus on the family and the disregard for people outside the family is a recognised cultural trait which of course has some negative impacts. The example I've given and the experience of the OP are I believe are rooted in that family first mentality.

I wasn't sure about this post.

I guess that your friend raised the fish and then released them into a communal lake with the intention that the whole community will benefit?

Probably the wife was not on board with this project from the outset and seeing strangers there, suspects that they may be along a few nights later with electro-fishing gear.

[roamer]

It's quite breathtaking.........in the situation as described by GH I would be looking at the woman and wondering who is this monster?

I'm all for adopting learning and absorbing the gentle aspects of Thai culture but that is a no go zone for me, from what I can deduce that gentleman was working for the greater good, and in a way that I think many of us would admire and he is being subjected to that?

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

There are some parts of our culture that we should cherish and be very proud of, and our Thai partners should learn to accept and respect them just as we try to learn and respect their culture.

That's the whole point of inter-cultural relationships.....learning to give and take and to absorb the best of both worlds.

Just playing the devil’s advocate for a second …

Would your reaction be different if that act occurred in Thailand or the UK?

Is there a Cultural trait that we, in our Western Culture, think of ourselves and our well-being first and the community at large a (sometimes) close second.

That Thai’s think of the Family unit first before one’s self importance and the community in general?

Interested in reading other's opinions ...

.

Really don't see this as a cultural trait.

My wife's uncle has a pretty large fruit plantation outside Chanthaburi. He and his wife have all they need, nice pickup, house, but otherwise no external signs of wealth. They really seem to have no need or desire for all the trappings of wealth.

I have lost count of the kids from that village who have had all their college expenses met , often as far afield as Bangkok.

[David006]

somewhat over generalization to say this is a Thai thing..as other posters have said some westerners are selfish or cheap charlies too.

the wife and her family had always been really poor yet those same people are open handed to a fault when it comes to anyone in need...clothes food, money and moral support. Could be a case of "been there done that".

Was in Phuket earlier this year and a story was being told of a young mother of two infants dying of cancer back in Krabi province.

A young daughter of a friend ( a stranger to the mother) disappeared and came back with a huge "care package" of food etc, gave it and some money to the wife for the young mother. The young mother died a month later and the villagers paid for the funeral party....think the children have been adopted by various villagers ....Incidentally the wife tells me father is a hard working though not too bright individual.

So no... Thais are NOT all selfish....

[theblether]

It's quite breathtaking.........in the situation as described by GH I would be looking at the woman and wondering who is this monster?

I'm all for adopting learning and absorbing the gentle aspects of Thai culture but that is a no go zone for me, from what I can deduce that gentleman was working for the greater good, and in a way that I think many of us would admire and he is being subjected to that?

I've never seen my lady act / react like that, the first time she does she'll learn my opinion, the second time she does she'll be reminded of my opinion, the third time she does she'll find herself talking to fresh air, as I will be gone, gone, gone.

There are some parts of our culture that we should cherish and be very proud of, and our Thai partners should learn to accept and respect them just as we try to learn and respect their culture.

That's the whole point of inter-cultural relationships.....learning to give and take and to absorb the best of both worlds.

Just playing the devil’s advocate for a second …

Would your reaction be different if that act occurred in Thailand or the UK?

Is there a Cultural trait that we, in our Western Culture, think of ourselves and our well-being first and the community at large a (sometimes) close second.

That Thai’s think of the Family unit first before one’s self importance and the community in general?

Interested in reading other's opinions ...

.

I wouldn't have a partner like that anywhere in the World.

[David48]

<snip> I wouldn't have a partner like that anywhere in the World.

Agreed ... and neither would I

... but curious what others think and does the action have a relation to where they live (i.e. more acceptable in Thailand then a Western Nation).

[DavoTheGun]

somewhat over generalization to say this is a Thai thing..as other posters have said some westerners are selfish or cheap charlies too.

the wife and her family had always been really poor yet those same people are open handed to a fault when it comes to anyone in need...clothes food, money and moral support. Could be a case of "been there done that".

Was in Phuket earlier this year and a story was being told of a young mother of two infants dying of cancer back in Krabi province.

A young daughter of a friend ( a stranger to the mother) disappeared and came back with a huge "care package" of food etc, gave it and some money to the wife for the young mother. The young mother died a month later and the villagers paid for the funeral party....think the children have been adopted by various villagers ....Incidentally the wife tells me father is a hard working though not too bright individual.

So no... Thais are NOT all selfish....

I think Theblether is on the right track, whilst we should recognize we are guests they could allow us to do what we think is right even if it is against there cultural values, as long it does no harm of course. They may even understand that our different values are not that bad. After all they are happy to take our money, and adopt a 2 tier pricing at the markets, is that right! We cop it without complaint.

[Berkshire]

If you really think Thais dont share with strangers, you obviously missed seeing the mountain piles of clothes and food that were donated during the floods last year. Mostly by Thais. That's just one occasion.

For as long as I can remember .....going back all the way to primary school.....we have been encouraged to give and to help. When I was a kid I put aside part of my food allowance for charity everyday. To war veterans. To people suffering from cold weather in the north. To those affected by floods in the south. Or draught in northeast.

And I wasn't alone. So to assume that Thais do not help is completely wrong.

A very fair and balanced assessment, and quite true. Yet, the OP is ignoring you. Mr. Davo seems bent on classifying all Thais as selfish because of the few Thais that he knows. Perhaps it makes him feel morally superior, but I always wonder about people who constantly try to convince themselves of that. The neverending ignorance of some farangs is astounding.

[maxme]

If you really think Thais dont share with strangers, you obviously missed seeing the mountain piles of clothes and food that were donated during the floods last year. Mostly by Thais. That's just one occasion.

For as long as I can remember .....going back all the way to primary school.....we have been encouraged to give and to help. When I was a kid I put aside part of my food allowance for charity everyday. To war veterans. To people suffering from cold weather in the north. To those affected by floods in the south. Or draught in northeast.

And I wasn't alone. So to assume that Thais do not help is completely wrong.

A very fair and balanced assessment, and quite true. Yet, the OP is ignoring you. Mr. Davo seems bent on classifying all Thais as selfish because of the few Thais that he knows. Perhaps it makes him feel morally superior, but I always wonder about people who constantly try to convince themselves of that. The neverending ignorance of some farangs is astounding.

Regarding the donations, now do the Thais ever donate to their neighboring countries and if so, on what scale?

Fair to say, there is a lot of generous and kind people in Thailand but these are individuals that have bypassed the culture and have a mind of their own.

The south is the richest part of Thailand because of various things such as tourism, plantations, industries etc etc but it cracks me up every time even when some I know trick their business partners or tourists and then go to pray for wealth and well being... Hipocrisy in action...

When people have done a good deed they usually pray for getting a good karma and here I think is what differs. While some would do for an altruistic motive, there are many that pray for this to be a counterbalance to their less than good deeds.

We have our motives for doing things, that's for sure but I doubt that was exactly what the Buddha meant.

My wife is quite the generous type but something bugs me when she has given the orphans, the straydogs and the blind beggars some coins or food and say "This will go to our good deeds". I know what she means and it's all well but in the end people should give because it's the right thing to do not because it will balance our karma.

If you gonna do that , you'll be counting numbers for the rest of your life.

I think this subject also affects one other thread "Does your girlfriend think outside the box" as it has much to do with culture than anything. The culture has a great impact on the poo yais on how to bring up their kids. They follow a sort of doctrine in this matter and they don't cope much with change. In fact they tell others how bad these new influences and changes have and some habits sticks hard but I doubt that no person here has what it takes to change his/her mind in this matter. When it comes to the old ones, that might be a tough one but the younger ones can be convinced if they are not die hard for the core family values.

OP, I may be out on a limb here but your gf hasn't traveled much abroad am I right?

In any case if you are still confused on what to do since you ask people on TV here is what you can do:

-Try to change her mind

- If that doesn't work learn to live with it that it's her way

- or simply break up since it doesn't fit your values of how a family should act

Because in the end I think it's about if you and you girl are suited for each other. If my girl couldn't stand up to her family's pounding about certain aspects such as relationship, generosity etc etc (which they don't) and she caved in, well I wouldn't be with that girl but that's just me.

Edited September 2, 2012 by maxme

[DavoTheGun]

If you really think Thais dont share with strangers, you obviously missed seeing the mountain piles of clothes and food that were donated during the floods last year. Mostly by Thais. That's just one occasion.

For as long as I can remember .....going back all the way to primary school.....we have been encouraged to give and to help. When I was a kid I put aside part of my food allowance for charity everyday. To war veterans. To people suffering from cold weather in the north. To those affected by floods in the south. Or draught in northeast.

And I wasn't alone. So to assume that Thais do not help is completely wrong.

A very fair and balanced assessment, and quite true. Yet, the OP is ignoring you. Mr. Davo seems bent on classifying all Thais as selfish because of the few Thais that he knows. Perhaps it makes him feel morally superior, but I always wonder about people who constantly try to convince themselves of that. The neverending ignorance of some farangs is astounding.

Regarding the donations, now do the Thais ever donate to their neighboring countries and if so, on what scale?

Fair to say, there is a lot of generous and kind people in Thailand but these are individuals that have bypassed the culture and have a mind of their own.

The south is the richest part of Thailand because of various things such as tourism, plantations, industries etc etc but it cracks me up every time even when some I know trick their business partners or tourists and then go to pray for wealth and well being... Hipocrisy in action...

When people have done a good deed they usually pray for getting a good karma and here I think is what differs. While some would do for an altruistic motive, there are many that pray for this to be a counterbalance to their less than good deeds.

We have our motives for doing things, that's for sure but I doubt that was exactly what the Buddha meant.

My wife is quite the generous type but something bugs me when she has given the orphans, the straydogs and the blind beggars some coins or food and say "This will go to our good deeds". I know what she means and it's all well but in the end people should give because it's the right thing to do not because it will balance our karma.

If you gonna do that , you'll be counting numbers for the rest of your life.

I think this subject also affects one other thread "Does your girlfriend think outside the box" as it has much to do with culture than anything. The culture has a great impact on the poo yais how to bring up their kids. They follow a sort of doctrine in this matter and they don't cope much with change. In fact they tell others how bad these new influences and changes have and some habits sticks hard but I doubt that no person here has what it takes to change his/her mind in this matter. When it comes to the old ones, that might be a tough one but the younger ones can be convinced if they are not die hard for the core family values.

OP, I may be out on a limb here but your gf hasn't traveled much abroad am I right?

In any case if you are still confused on what to do since you ask people on TV here is what you can do:

-Try to change her mind

- If that doesn't work learn to live with it that it's her way

- or simply break up since it doesn't fit your values of how a family should act

Because in the end I think it's about if you and you girl are suited for each other. If my girl couldn't stand up to her family's pounding about certain aspects such as relationship, generosity etc etc (which they don't) and she caved in, well I wouldn't be with that girl but that's just me.

I think you have summed up very well, this thread has caused me to rethink a bit and some of the comments thought provoking, I must admit there are people everywhere with different ideas, principals, moral values all on a personal level, so to try and isolate a particular country and decide they are different is to others is absurd. I was wrong to presume this but do think that the culture in Thailand (Asia) has created a different set of values then the west. and that is not going to change any time soon, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[ayayay]

Yes so typical thai, this is how every thai would react. And you would never see anywhere else in the world.

Edited September 2, 2012 by ayayay

[maxme]

Yes so typical thai, this is how every thai would react. And you would never see anywhere else in the world.

Because we are talking about Thailand which is not developed yet or even have a unity yet but I'll be happy to talk about other countries in another thread, even my own because my own home country is not beyond criticism but that's not what we are talking about here is it now?

[kennedy]

people do this often in the west even if they are well off. but they toss it out, rather then donating or selling it.

I used to try and convince my neighbor to donate his stuff the way I did, even have him the number and it could be picked up curbside.

'why, I'm not going to save the world' he would say. he thought the idea was a radical or bleeding heart liberal idea.

many people don't care about helping others. they are to lazy or selfish.

I bet he entered it on his income tax return, given or not, and slept well that night.

[GuestHouse]

We should also take note that there are a number of cultural factors at play - As we have been reminded in this thread Thais do make donations to charities / causes, those donations of course take place within Thai cultural norms.

A particular difficulty arises around 'indebtedness', consider that a favour given is a debt of favour incurred.

Favour trading and favour indebtedness might almost be described as the oil that helps Thai society run. It makes for smooth running between close social groups but gets a bit awkward when an interloper appears on the scene.

I've often sat amused at the lengths Thai friends and colleagues will go to avoid getting into a favour debt with someone they don't know - Actually, I've probably had a lot more amusement observing Thai friends and colleagues trying to avoid being even introduced to someone they have no 'Thai social link to'.

The act of a Thai person giving charitable help to a stranger in Thailand cannot take place outside of these cultural rules, they absolutely play a part in charitable deeds in Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

Here's another observation.

Last year I took part in one of those Thai fund raising, aid raising events others have mentioned above. The event was organised by a Thai social club - The amount of money, raised was small, the amount of goods donated was huge.

This is worth mentioning because I see no evidence that Thai people are not generous - they've got some pretty screwed up ideas about charitable giving, but they do give.

I can feel a few members twitching at that last sentence, priming themselves to start a ranting response 'Who is GH to say Thais have pretty screwed up ideas about charitable giving'? - Please hold your fire for a moment.

So back to the charitable event - I was asked and agreed to take part. A week or so later I received a shopping list, things that were required for the charity drive accompanied by a set of notes relating to things that are not required.

The general gist was buy from the list, but don't buy anything that is too fancy, soap should be unscented. Shampoo should be plane with no conditioner. Curiously women's hygiene products (sanitary towels ) where not on the list and yet these are primary aid items.

I thought at first the instructions were to reduce unnecessary costs - but right through the list the cost was never mentioned - Give stuff, but don't give stuff you yourself might like. I myself went to Watson, they had a buy two get one free sale on - I bought what was on sale (sorry some of it was scented). Oh loads of sanitary towels.

Evidence of Thai generosity came in the form of 6 large lorries full of donated aid. (Again, you'll not catch me saying Thais are not generous). OK the vast majority was from companies and international companies where at the top of the donors' list, but there was a huge amount of stuff donated.

Now the really screwed up bit (To GH's way of thinking).

We trucked all this stuff up North to be distributed around Hill Tribe Villages, the stuff was split into batches, each batch to a different village.

I went along to three villages and witnessed first hand the blunt end of Thai charity.

Where I expected the goods to be handed out, perhaps in boxes, perhaps to individuals or perhaps to village heads, but handed over without a lot of fuss, what actually occurred was the whole village were brought out and stood in lines.

Handing over the goods was a day long photo shoot, then just like one of those Thai soap operas where they re-run all the 'best bits' in the last episode - The recipients where dragged over again and prompted to sing the praises of their kind benefactors (all for the benefit of the video).

I witness 'charity workers' rehearsing children in the lines they must say 'all together now for the camera'.

This was repeated in each of the three villages I visited.

Now clearly the people received a load of stuff, but was it the stuff they needed and what else did they receive other than a lesson in grovelling to there benefactors.

This to my mind is not charity, it is largesse and I personally shall never get involved with such a show again.

[samran]

Now clearly the people received a load of stuff, but was it the stuff they needed and what else did they receive other than a lesson in grovelling to there benefactors.

This to my mind is not charity, it is largesse and I personally shall never get involved with such a show again.

I'm not sure whether the whole show is expected and something that just goes part and parcel with 'gift giving'.

To use an example, my mother is hardly someone you'd call a show off (she gets around in shorts and T-shirts most of the time) and is often confused for and treated like the maid when she is taking my daughter out (all to her delight as she then takes the piss out of them).

Two years ago she'd organised for the Lions Club in Australia where she's a member to pay for the fees of 3 Burmese children to grade 6, one of who was the daughter of our maid.

She'd expected to just go down to the school, sort the money, and be off. Instead, the school organised that people were trotted out to take photos of her (in shorts and T-shirt) with various staff members, and the kids, all smiling and happy etc etc.

Not taking away anything that you've written, you are right, there are some strange ideas out there.

[GuestHouse]

You are entirely right Samran, the Largesse I found so abhorrent within the Thai Charity event in the Hill Tribe Villages is not restricted to Thais only.

Some of the nastiest individuals in the expat community here in Thailand make great use of Charity as a means of whitewashing their own personal history.

The line between charity and largesse is a thin one.

And since charity is so very close to the emotions of the people who participate in real charity (not largesse), why should we be at all surprised that hard held cultural beliefs would not play a significant role - In Thailand and elsewhere.

[PaullyW]

Can we change the title of this topic to "My Girlfriend is a hoarder".

It has got nothing to do with broader Thai culture or its people

You may be right about this, but as I have spoken about this to other Thai's about this subject they seem to think it is a culture thing, looking after self comes first.

Has more to do with being relatively poor or having what is called the poor person's mentality. No a Thai thing, per se. Just a poor person's process. You'd see the same in poor communities in the US, poor countries in Africa, etc.

[Thinkingofachange]

Charity in Thailand towards random individuals is looked upon as being foolish. If you are going to be charitable, you have to aim that charity at a temple/Monk, this was you can earn the optimal amount of Karma in return. A good strategy is to buy an even amount of lottery tickets for what you are donating.

In other words, only give charity when it benefits you?

[Pseudolus]

I think there is considerably more charity in Thailand than most people give them credit for. I get the feeling that a lot of the monk related chairty is face giving more than anything but there is a lot of good work being done and the real benefactors are often unknown. The right kind of charity in my opinion.

As an aside, I notice that Thailand typically does better in the Paraolympics than they do in the main event. Disability here is not something you encounter very much aside from the beggars. It's good though that there is a strong showing in the Paraolympics - is there a charitable trust involved there?