Democrats Surprise With Victory In Pheu Thai Stronghold

[OzMick]

As far as I can tell, you just like to pose questions - as if that were enough to make a point. None the less, here is a go at it for you...

- yes

- I don't call it an insurrection, that is a term used by another to whom Phiphidon replied, but for the purposes of this thread, yes

- unknown, but it was a protester

- no

- maybe, ... doesn't change the number of dead protesters however

Insurrection? What do you call firing an RPG at either a temple or the MoD (BTW March 30th) - peaceful protest?

"Insurrection? What do you call firing an RPG at either a temple or the MoD"

Well if you're a government propagandist, you'd say it was a near miss.......

A quick dodge away, as usual. And it wasn't a near miss, it was a typical red-shirt inept cock-up.

[OzMick]

Not worth the effort

Edited September 10, 2012 by OzMick

[phiphidon]

So you confirmed what I had already said. Well done. It wasn't a peace loving protester that fired the grenades , it was Bundit. He's in jail because of it.

It was Bundit, not a peace-loving red-shirt, he might have been a fake shirt for all we know. Maybe it was the government, k. Suthep personally having given the M79 launchers with grenades to this non-peace-loving chap. Obviously no relation to 'peaceful protesters'. Red-shirts have shown a peaceful attitude and respect for other peoples lives over and over again. Unfortunately this peaceful organisation seems to attract militant elements, some vocal like UDD leaders, some heavily armed. Nothing to do with red-shirts, don't blame us and certainly don't blame phiphidon, he's farang, he doesn't count (at least not past nine)

So a council seat taken by a Democrat, which seat is next ?

It was Bundit - He is not a peaceful protester. He has been jailed as the result of his actions. That's that - what the point of the rest of your diatribe is, who knows.

Any which way to really avoid any possible link to us red-shirts in general and us peaceful red-shirts in particular. It was Bundit, a non-red-shirt related figure. We red-shirts are peaceful. We red-shirts are so peaceful we wouldn't even know what violence is if it hit us in the face, unless it was the Abhisit government of course.

Welcome to phiphidon's world of selective peacefulness

Do you have a point to make?

[maidu]

The political party associated with the redshirts trounced the opposition in a general election.

Many peons sold their votes, plain and simple. I personally know Thais and hill tribers (with ID cards) up here in northern Thailand who told me they got paid to vote for PT and the Reds. They sold their votes for between 200 and 500 baht. Probably millions did that. I asked them why they didn't just take the money and vote for whomever they really wanted. They said, 'the pu yai ban (village headman) knows who votes for whom. ' If you take the money and don't vote as told, you get in trouble. Simple.

[jayboy]

The political party associated with the redshirts trounced the opposition in a general election.

Many peons sold their votes, plain and simple. I personally know Thais and hill tribers (with ID cards) up here in northern Thailand who told me they got paid to vote for PT and the Reds. They sold their votes for between 200 and 500 baht. Probably millions did that. I asked them why they didn't just take the money and vote for whomever they really wanted. They said, 'the pu yai ban (village headman) knows who votes for whom. ' If you take the money and don't vote as told, you get in trouble. Simple.

In another thread this morning I made a facetious reference to usual suspects who" explained" the PTP victory at the last election through vote buying and other outlandish theories.However sometimes there is no need to be sarcastic because the reality is more bizarre.

[OzMick]

It was Bundit - He is not a peaceful protester. He has been jailed as the result of his actions. That's that - what the point of the rest of your diatribe is, who knows.

Any which way to really avoid any possible link to us red-shirts in general and us peaceful red-shirts in particular. It was Bundit, a non-red-shirt related figure. We red-shirts are peaceful. We red-shirts are so peaceful we wouldn't even know what violence is if it hit us in the face, unless it was the Abhisit government of course.

Welcome to phiphidon's world of selective peacefulness

Do you have a point to make?

Made quite clearly to me. Red shirt leaders hired mercenaries to incite violence, make terrorist attacks, plant bombs - as part of their "peaceful protest". And the mercenaries moved amongst the allegedly innocent "peaceful protesters" who didn't once think "Is this a good idea?"

"Pol Lance Corporal Bandit Sitthitum, 43, and Supanat Ui-yawet, 43, were paid 500,000 baht by Pol Lt Col Supachai Tuikaewkam, whose wife, Juriporn Sintuprai, is a red-shirt leader from Pattaya."

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. Stick to the topic, please.

[Scott]

There is a point in a thread where deleted the off-topic/baiting posts results in diminishing returns. At that point, the option is to give suspensions.

This thread is quickly reaching that point.

(More posts deleted, by the way).

[ramrod711]

Give your ass a kick and try to keep up

"But hey, call me short sighted, naive and ill informed!".......don't need to Ozmick pointed that out in a previous post ref 51

By referring to Ozmick (post 51) and using his statement as an argument, you admit to understand that Abhisit was a completely democratic installed PM during his time. Wow, I might have underestimated your comprehension skills!

Errm which election has Abhisit actually won? dates, vote count plz

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

[binjalin]

Give your ass a kick and try to keep up

"But hey, call me short sighted, naive and ill informed!".......don't need to Ozmick pointed that out in a previous post ref 51

By referring to Ozmick (post 51) and using his statement as an argument, you admit to understand that Abhisit was a completely democratic installed PM during his time. Wow, I might have underestimated your comprehension skills!

Errm which election has Abhisit actually won? dates, vote count plz

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

[rubl]

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

If k. Abhisit was never elected by the Thai people, so wasn't Ms. Yingluck. AFAIK both have only been party list candidates till now. Got it now?

[473geo]

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

If k. Abhisit was never elected by the Thai people, so wasn't Ms. Yingluck. AFAIK both have only been party list candidates till now. Got it now?

Actually Gordon Brown of in the UK is a good parallel to Abhist, handed the PM position but never selected to run the country by the electorate, both failed when going to the country to validate support for their Party and their leadership.......got it now?

[rubl]

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

If k. Abhisit was never elected by the Thai people, so wasn't Ms. Yingluck. AFAIK both have only been party list candidates till now. Got it now?

Actually Gordon Brown of in the UK is a good parallel to Abhist, handed the PM position but never selected to run the country by the electorate, both failed when going to the country to validate support for their Party and their leadership.......got it now?

Even wiythout rain we seem to be drifting away from the topic.

Ms. Yingluck as elected MP was selected / elected PM by her fellow MP's, or at least by a sufficient majority of them. With k. Abhisit things were not really different. As for Mr. Brown, he's British, the British electorate in it's behaviour and voting rituals has no relation with how things are done in Thailand

[whybother]

Actually Gordon Brown of in the UK is a good parallel to Abhist, handed the PM position but never selected to run the country by the electorate, both failed when going to the country to validate support for their Party and their leadership.......got it now?

He's in good stead then, isn't he. Thaksin first time around. Samak, and especially Somchai.

[Thaddeus]

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

If k. Abhisit was never elected by the Thai people, so wasn't Ms. Yingluck. AFAIK both have only been party list candidates till now. Got it now?

Actually Gordon Brown of in the UK is a good parallel to Abhist, handed the PM position but never selected to run the country by the electorate, both failed when going to the country to validate support for their Party and their leadership.......got it now?

Not a good comparison at all, the labour party had not been dissolved, they were still in power and chose a new leader because the one they had was about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs competition, who then went on to lose a popularity contest representing the entire party.

Thinking about it, it isn't even vaguely similar.

[473geo]

Not a good comparison at all, the labour party had not been dissolved, they were still in power and chose a new leader because the one they had was about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs competition, who then went on to lose a popularity contest representing the entire party.

Thinking about it, it isn't even vaguely similar.

Of course you are correct Thaddeus not even vaguely similar, Abhisit carried nowhere near the popularity of Gordon Brown when leaving office

thank goodness some in the Democrat party can please the Public, even if she did learn her trade elsewhere

[rubl]

Not a good comparison at all, the labour party had not been dissolved, they were still in power and chose a new leader because the one they had was about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs competition, who then went on to lose a popularity contest representing the entire party.

Thinking about it, it isn't even vaguely similar.

Of course you are correct Thaddeus not even vaguely similar, Abhisit carried nowhere near the popularity of Gordon Brown when leaving office

thank goodness some in the Democrat party can please the Public, even if she did learn her trade elsewhere

Why mention Gordon Brown and when questioned just say 'not even vaguely similar'. Trolling for trolling sake? Next sentence seems to indicate you're annoyed, aren't you ? Trolling plan failed?

So a Democrat candidate who learned her trade in TRT/PPP/Phue Thai type of parties is bound to have learned the trade? With all the info provided in this topic, it seems the lady learned what not to do

[Ricardo]

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

If k. Abhisit was never elected by the Thai people, so wasn't Ms. Yingluck. AFAIK both have only been party list candidates till now. Got it now?

Actually Gordon Brown of in the UK is a good parallel to Abhist, handed the PM position but never selected to run the country by the electorate, both failed when going to the country to validate support for their Party and their leadership.......got it now?

Another possible comparison might be PM-Somchai, who was also never selected to run the country by the electorate, but who even failed to call an election, when his party/government were being dissolved.

PPP preferred to change horses in mid-race, in an internal party-meeting in some dreary smoke-filled room, possibly located in Dubai.

[Buchholz]

Not a good comparison at all, the labour party had not been dissolved, they were still in power and chose a new leader because the one they had was about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs competition, who then went on to lose a popularity contest representing the entire party.

Thinking about it, it isn't even vaguely similar.

Of course you are correct Thaddeus not even vaguely similar, Abhisit carried nowhere near the popularity of Gordon Brown when leaving office

thank goodness some in the Democrat party can please the Public, even if she did learn her trade elsewhere

Why mention Gordon Brown and when questioned just say 'not even vaguely similar'. Trolling for trolling sake? Next sentence seems to indicate you're annoyed, aren't you ? Trolling plan failed?

So a Democrat candidate who learned her trade in TRT/PPP/Phue Thai type of parties is bound to have learned the trade? With all the info provided in this topic, it seems the lady learned what not to do

all starting from the tiresome misstatement by binjalin, the often-repeated and and wholly erroneous:

Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE

[jayboy]

As for Mr. Brown, he's British, the British electorate in it's behaviour and voting rituals has no relation with how things are done in Thailand

Ah the hoary old face of Thai exceptionalism raises its silly head.Nothing overseas can be compared to Thailand where every nuance of political and social behaviour is unique.Always the refuge of the usual suspects when their arguments are demolished.

It's all complete nonsense of course.In fact the case of Gordon Brown is analagous almost precisely to that of Abhisit, a long serving party man who came to the leadership without having to face the electorate.Entirely legal in accordance with the rules of parliamentary democracy (Thailand's system being very closely modeled on that of Britain).It remains the case however that to shore up his position a leader coming to power this way needs to face the electorate sooner rather than later or political strength and credibility slips away.When both Abhisit and Brown eventually got round to facing the electorate, they were rejected.(Brown foolishly chickened out early in his administration when he almost certainly would have won).In the case of Abhisit and Brown there is a further similarity:both are highly intelligent men but almost completely devoid of political charisma.Brown's reputation is however being treated quite kindly in view of subsequent events.Whether Abhisit can ever recover from his involvement in the killings of 2010 remains to be seen.

[jayboy]

Not a good comparison at all, the labour party had not been dissolved, they were still in power and chose a new leader because the one they had was about as popular as a horny dog at a Miss Lovely Legs competition, who then went on to lose a popularity contest representing the entire party.

Thinking about it, it isn't even vaguely similar.

Of course you are correct Thaddeus not even vaguely similar, Abhisit carried nowhere near the popularity of Gordon Brown when leaving office

thank goodness some in the Democrat party can please the Public, even if she did learn her trade elsewhere

Why mention Gordon Brown and when questioned just say 'not even vaguely similar'. Trolling for trolling sake? Next sentence seems to indicate you're annoyed, aren't you ? Trolling plan failed?

So a Democrat candidate who learned her trade in TRT/PPP/Phue Thai type of parties is bound to have learned the trade? With all the info provided in this topic, it seems the lady learned what not to do

all starting from the tiresome misstatement by binjalin, the often-repeated and and wholly erroneous:

Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE

Tiresome for you no doubt, often repeated certainly and completely true.See my post above.

If you would like a tutorial on parliamentary democracy - a system used by both Thailand and the UK please let me know.I am sympathetic to our American cousins being hazy about the details.

[whybother]

Tiresome for you no doubt, often repeated certainly and completely true.See my post above.

If you would like a tutorial on parliamentary democracy - a system used by both Thailand and the UK please let me know.I am sympathetic to our American cousins being hazy about the details.

Maybe you can explain to an Australian how PMs are elected, and how PMs that are elected through a coalition are elected "by the people".

[jayboy]

Tiresome for you no doubt, often repeated certainly and completely true.See my post above.

If you would like a tutorial on parliamentary democracy - a system used by both Thailand and the UK please let me know.I am sympathetic to our American cousins being hazy about the details.

Maybe you can explain to an Australian how PMs are elected, and how PMs that are elected through a coalition are elected "by the people".

I assume you know the mechanics of parliamentary democracy already.In any case that point has already been explained along with a key consideration that a PM who has not faced the electorate needs to refresh his mandate.Nobody is suggesting that Abhisit wasn't the rightful PM simply that he needed to obtain the endorsement of the Thai people to shore up his political credibility.It's a political rather than a constitutional consideration.Having said that I think the need for Abhisit to obtain a proper mandate (in addition to that of the urban middle class) was critical given the unusual way he came to power, essentially a puppet of reactionary interests and reinforced by inappropriate judicial activism.

There's almost a Shakespearean tragedy here.Abhisit - a perceptive, intelligent civilised man undone by character weakness.Superior in so many ways to the current PM, yet he is the one with a shadow over him and his future compromised.Yingluck, a charming lightweight, has greater respect and credibility in the world's eyes - not least because she has the endorsement of the Thai people and has no blood on her hands.

Edited September 11, 2012 by jayboy

[Reasonableman]

Deleted.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Reasonableman

[AleG]

Do you understand the parliamentary system? A coalition was formed, the Democratic Party was installed as government. Read KireBs post....installed.....got it now.

do you understand anything? Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE I was not arguing the legality - just like Gerald Ford was never elected by the PEOPLE and, like Abhisit, when the chance came he was thrown out - got it now?

If k. Abhisit was never elected by the Thai people, so wasn't Ms. Yingluck. AFAIK both have only been party list candidates till now. Got it now?

Actually Gordon Brown of in the UK is a good parallel to Abhist, handed the PM position but never selected to run the country by the electorate, both failed when going to the country to validate support for their Party and their leadership.......got it now?

I know is off topic, but now I'm wondering how many died as a result of the riots aimed at overthrowing the illegitimate Brown government.

Must have missed the news.

[nurofiend]

Not worth the effort

if only you'd repeat that mantra more often.

[Buchholz]

all starting from the tiresome misstatement by binjalin, the often-repeated and and wholly erroneous:

Abhisit was never elected by the Thai PEOPLE

If you would like a tutorial on parliamentary democracy

save your lessons for those that do say the below

Nobody is suggesting that Abhisit wasn't the rightful PM

[rubl]

As for Mr. Brown, he's British, the British electorate in it's behaviour and voting rituals has no relation with how things are done in Thailand

Ah the hoary old face of Thai exceptionalism raises its silly head.Nothing overseas can be compared to Thailand where every nuance of political and social behaviour is unique.Always the refuge of the usual suspects when their arguments are demolished.

It's all complete nonsense of course.In fact the case of Gordon Brown is analagous almost precisely to that of Abhisit, a long serving party man who came to the leadership without having to face the electorate.Entirely legal in accordance with the rules of parliamentary democracy (Thailand's system being very closely modeled on that of Britain).It remains the case however that to shore up his position a leader coming to power this way needs to face the electorate sooner rather than later or political strength and credibility slips away.When both Abhisit and Brown eventually got round to facing the electorate, they were rejected.(Brown foolishly chickened out early in his administration when he almost certainly would have won).In the case of Abhisit and Brown there is a further similarity:both are highly intelligent men but almost completely devoid of political charisma.Brown's reputation is however being treated quite kindly in view of subsequent events.Whether Abhisit can ever recover from his involvement in the killings of 2010 remains to be seen.

My dear learned friend,

Quaint British voting rituals and counting systems have nothing to do with the Thai situation and I must admit to wondering whether it relates to any other country as well. Maybe just not decimal, who knows. LibDems and Monty Python have had problems with it for years, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, even you are invited to the party, "Democrat surprise with victory"

BTW keep faith, remember this:

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

“THOUGHTS ON VARIOUS SUBJECTS, MORAL AND DIVERTING” — Jonathan Swift

[phiphidon]

As for Mr. Brown, he's British, the British electorate in it's behaviour and voting rituals has no relation with how things are done in Thailand

Ah the hoary old face of Thai exceptionalism raises its silly head.Nothing overseas can be compared to Thailand where every nuance of political and social behaviour is unique.Always the refuge of the usual suspects when their arguments are demolished.

It's all complete nonsense of course.In fact the case of Gordon Brown is analagous almost precisely to that of Abhisit, a long serving party man who came to the leadership without having to face the electorate.Entirely legal in accordance with the rules of parliamentary democracy (Thailand's system being very closely modeled on that of Britain).It remains the case however that to shore up his position a leader coming to power this way needs to face the electorate sooner rather than later or political strength and credibility slips away.When both Abhisit and Brown eventually got round to facing the electorate, they were rejected.(Brown foolishly chickened out early in his administration when he almost certainly would have won).In the case of Abhisit and Brown there is a further similarity:both are highly intelligent men but almost completely devoid of political charisma.Brown's reputation is however being treated quite kindly in view of subsequent events.Whether Abhisit can ever recover from his involvement in the killings of 2010 remains to be seen.

My dear learned friend,

Quaint British voting rituals and counting systems have nothing to do with the Thai situation and I must admit to wondering whether it relates to any other country as well. Maybe just not decimal, who knows. LibDems and Monty Python have had problems with it for years, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, even you are invited to the party, "Democrat surprise with victory"

BTW keep faith, remember this:

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

"THOUGHTS ON VARIOUS SUBJECTS, MORAL AND DIVERTING" Jonathan Swift

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

But who decides who has the right to decide who is who?

[rubl]

Ah the hoary old face of Thai exceptionalism raises its silly head.Nothing overseas can be compared to Thailand where every nuance of political and social behaviour is unique.Always the refuge of the usual suspects when their arguments are demolished.

It's all complete nonsense of course.In fact the case of Gordon Brown is analagous almost precisely to that of Abhisit, a long serving party man who came to the leadership without having to face the electorate.Entirely legal in accordance with the rules of parliamentary democracy (Thailand's system being very closely modeled on that of Britain).It remains the case however that to shore up his position a leader coming to power this way needs to face the electorate sooner rather than later or political strength and credibility slips away.When both Abhisit and Brown eventually got round to facing the electorate, they were rejected.(Brown foolishly chickened out early in his administration when he almost certainly would have won).In the case of Abhisit and Brown there is a further similarity:both are highly intelligent men but almost completely devoid of political charisma.Brown's reputation is however being treated quite kindly in view of subsequent events.Whether Abhisit can ever recover from his involvement in the killings of 2010 remains to be seen.

My dear learned friend,

Quaint British voting rituals and counting systems have nothing to do with the Thai situation and I must admit to wondering whether it relates to any other country as well. Maybe just not decimal, who knows. LibDems and Monty Python have had problems with it for years, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, even you are invited to the party, "Democrat surprise with victory"

BTW keep faith, remember this:

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

"THOUGHTS ON VARIOUS SUBJECTS, MORAL AND DIVERTING" — Jonathan Swift

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

But who decides who has the right to decide who is who?

You haven't really been paying attention, now have you. If you had you'd know the answer to your question is "the electorate".

Mind you, I was addressing jayboy and will vote for him