Vuelta

[mania]

Hope you cycling fans have been watching the Vuelta this year?

While the TDF was more boring than usual the Vuelta has been Great!

With the previous three days in the mountains & the constant attacks by Contador & Valverde

even on stage 16 with a 23-25% grade finish that was painful to watch.

Yet Rodriguez answered them all.

Could not say the same for Froome who did not look like a climber when pitted against real climbers.

But today ! Contador attacks from 52km out & takes it all away from Rodriguez

who until now he could not shake nor gain the 28 seconds to move into 1st

What a great race

Edited September 5, 2012 by mania

[soi41]

Agree with you a 100%. It has been a fantastic race, with a really entertaining battle between Contador and Rodrigues. And a an old cyclefan it is nice to see La Vuelta being decided in the mountains. And not like TDF on 2 long timetrials !

[ianf]

Agree with you a 100%. It has been a fantastic race, with a really entertaining battle between Contador and Rodrigues. And a an old cyclefan it is nice to see La Vuelta being decided in the mountains. And not like TDF on 2 long timetrials !

Those of us who have followed cycling, raced and been a cyclist for more than 50 years would not call the Tour de France boring! Where did that come from!!! The TdF and Vuelta (and indeed Giro) are 3 different races, with different cultures and so on. I loved them all this year because we are now looking at a largely clean peloton. The TdF in the days of Anquetil also had deciding time trials. What's wrong with that???

Edited September 9, 2012 by ianf

[mania]

Sorry I may have only raced & followed cycling for 30+ some odd years but this years TDF was the most boring I have ever seen

YMMV

Clean Peloton? I think your dreaming

I gave up on that & have seen nothing to change my mind.

But, It does not bother me at all & does not reduce my love of cycling at all.

But I do accept the facts.

[ianf]

Those f us who have been deeply involved in the sport understand why the peloton is so much cleaner: the speeds are much lower, the climbing is more realistic and riders who would not have been able to compete in a 2-speed peloton are now beginning to come through. Wiggins' interview with Cycling Weekly was interesting but even more interesting are the comments of the peeps who have known Wiggins man and boy and saw him shine at Hillingdon (for example) as a kid. Richard Allchin, previously Wiggins' manager and a good friend of mine (see Facebook) has also many interesting comments about a cleaner peloton. So I hope you are not infering anything about Wiggins or the Sky team. They have dragged the sport into the 21st century, applied an intelligence that the old Belgian Soigneurs lacked and came up with a winning formula. As Wiggins said "I would not be able to face the parents at the school gate if I had of cheated my way around the Tour". A clean peloton. Certainly 90% and only those struggling at the back for a renewed contract appear to be doping. But like the poster said, EPO or not, I love this sport, I am and have been 100% immersed in it since the age of 12, I am working with and training Thai kids and supplying track kit to them and I have a TCA coaching licence. I am more distressed by the cavalier attitude shown by the sports authorities towards the aspirations of their constituents than I am by the low incidence of doping in the pro peloton.

[mania]

Those f us who have been deeply involved in the sport understand why the peloton is so much cleaner: the speeds are much lower,

So I hope you are not infering anything about Wiggins or the Sky team.

We all have our opinions & are welcome to them

For you to constantly use phrases like " Those of us" etc is rather silly given we know nothing of each other outside

an anonymous forum.

Suffice it to say we have our opinions gained by what we have seen.

I base mine as you do on first hand experience both in decades of following & decades of competing.

I disagree about the speed changes & if you look back at actual TDF avg speeds the last change of more than 0.5- 1 KMH

occurred roughly around 1980-81 Before that the avg speed to complete TDF was in the 35 KPH range

Oh to be sure they were juiced then too but on stimulants mainly. Stimulants had a blowback effect & many times they could not recover

After the early 80's it all changed to blood boosting & other methods to aid recovery.

This in turn allows much higher training loads due to enhanced recovery.

So when you claim clean perhaps you mean they pass a drug test for the drugs being looked for at the moment.

Trust me the drugs used are many times not even on the ban list. Also they are not always used "during" competition.

Is that clean? Don't know don't care

Other than that there is no slower speeds at all.

If you want to know what clean looks like you will know when you see rider blow spectacularly as they once did.

I do not mean losing 2 minutes I mean blow as in get in the broom wagon your done & will never make the cut-off

There is no way to do 21 days of what amounts to an Ironman per day & not have a bad day. I don't care what folks like to claim

about modern training methods.

As long as I see Tours continue to finish in 39-40KPH range I say it is still raging.

If not then what was the point? You really believe drugs are gone yet avg speeds remain the same for the total completion of the tours?

Wiggins/Sky clean? Again, Don't know don't care.

As I said before it does not diminish my love of cycling in the least.

Anyway this was a Vuelta Thread

Better to start a drug use or cleanliness thread if one wants to discuss drugs.

[mania]

Back OT

Stage 20 was another great stage.

You do not usually see such a stage the day before the final stage.

With grades once again reaching 23% in the final sections it was painful to watch.

Rodriguez showed both Contador & Valverde a clean pair of heels as he rode them off his wheel.

Ended up putting 25 second on Valverde & 44 seconds into Contador.

While not enough to change their 1,2,3 overall standings it did show his ability.

Contador looked on the edge in stage 20 & was smart to keep his pace & limit the loss.

Overall a great Tour with many exciting moments.

Kudos to Dennis Menchov too for winning the stage

Edited September 9, 2012 by mania

[ianf]

Those f us who have been deeply involved in the sport understand why the peloton is so much cleaner: the speeds are much lower,

So I hope you are not infering anything about Wiggins or the Sky team.

We all have our opinions & are welcome to them

For you to constantly use phrases like " Those of us" etc is rather silly given we know nothing of each other outside

an anonymous forum.

Suffice it to say we have our opinions gained by what we have seen.

I base mine as you do on first hand experience both in decades of following & decades of competing.

I disagree about the speed changes & if you look back at actual TDF avg speeds the last change of more than 0.5- 1 KMH

occurred roughly around 1980-81 Before that the avg speed to complete TDF was in the 35 KPH range

Oh to be sure they were juiced then too but on stimulants mainly. Stimulants had a blowback effect & many times they could not recover

After the early 80's it all changed to blood boosting & other methods to aid recovery.

This in turn allows much higher training loads due to enhanced recovery.

So when you claim clean perhaps you mean they pass a drug test for the drugs being looked for at the moment.

Trust me the drugs used are many times not even on the ban list. Also they are not always used "during" competition.

Is that clean? Don't know don't care

Other than that there is no slower speeds at all.

If you want to know what clean looks like you will know when you see rider blow spectacularly as they once did.

I do not mean losing 2 minutes I mean blow as in get in the broom wagon your done & will never make the cut-off

There is no way to do 21 days of what amounts to an Ironman per day & not have a bad day. I don't care what folks like to claim

about modern training methods.

As long as I see Tours continue to finish in 39-40KPH range I say it is still raging.

If not then what was the point? You really believe drugs are gone yet avg speeds remain the same for the total completion of the tours?

Wiggins/Sky clean? Again, Don't know don't care.

As I said before it does not diminish my love of cycling in the least.

Anyway this was a Vuelta Thread

Better to start a drug use or cleanliness thread if one wants to discuss drugs.

Your earlier insinuation about doping implicated the recent winner and I know 100% that he is clean as was last year's winner. That's all.

Personally, I love the drama of the Giro - the TdF is too commercial for me and the Vuelta has improved over the past few years and I agree this year's Vuelta was a gem. In the 60s, I followed the TdF as a trainee journalist and in the 70s as a freelancer. In those days amphetamines were rife but they didn't turn carthorses into winners. The races you see now are so much better because they are cleaner and you are witnessing honest effort. I hated the Armstrong era because back then I knew the bunch was being controlled by a sociopath.

But if you are still riding, come up to Chiang Mai - there's some great riding here and I'm managing 400k a week at the moment. Much more important!

Edited September 9, 2012 by ianf

[mania]

Your earlier insinuation about doping implicated the recent winner and I know 100% that he is clean as was last year's winner. That's all.

No problem Ian

Sorry if my post came off as blunt but I just tire of doping debates.

I do not think I implicated the recent winner as I said

Wiggins/Sky clean? Again, Don't know don't care.

Enjoy Cycling