Dishonest Work Agency - Visa Problem

[noob7]

We can deal with that. Now we need to get the money the agency owes her.

Cheers,

Good luck! I think, the intention is, not to pay.

If you are "under consideration" for a WP, you can work, when I first came to Thailand, my first WP took about 6 weeks and this question was asked to the DOL who confirmed while your application is in process you are permitted to work, even though the formal WP had not been issued

Like you said : "while your application is in process"

That means, the application has to be filed, the visa's 'on the way', minimum.

So the pregnant lady worked illegal, and it was ment this way.

[Soutpeel]

We can deal with that. Now we need to get the money the agency owes her.

Cheers,

Good luck! I think, the intention is, not to pay.

If you are "under consideration" for a WP, you can work, when I first came to Thailand, my first WP took about 6 weeks and this question was asked to the DOL who confirmed while your application is in process you are permitted to work, even though the formal WP had not been issued

Like you said : "while your application is in process"

That means, the application has to be filed, the visa's 'on the way', minimum.

So the pregnant lady worked illegal, and it was ment this way.

"Then they asked her to do a visa run and get a tourust visa and primised to get her a non B based later"

The fact that they told her to get a tourist visa infer's that a WP application had not made by the agency, as if it had they had they would have provided the WP application receipt and she could have been issued a Non-imm B and not needed a tourist visa, so yes she was working illegally it seems, but this doesnt prevent someone from reporting the agency to the DOL and if the DOL do take the case, she stands a good chance of getting the money owed to her

[Soutpeel]

HI,

Thanx for all answers.And better news this time - at least we can go to DOL and that's something we definitely want to do. You think that going to the police is a bad idea? The embassy suggested reporting a fraud.

We went to the agency today, had a very unpleasant conversation and nothing came of it.

We also consulted one of language schools that provide ED visas here in BKK. They told us that my GF could extend her visa for another 7 days at the immigration office. That, together with the 2 weeks that she has left on her visa, should be enough for them to process all the documents. Than we fly to India with the papers where she should get a one year ED visa in the Thai Embassy. The cost of the whole operation (language course, visa extension, visa fee) is around 25k Baht + 2k every 3 months for a visa extension.

We can deal with that. Now we need to get the money the agency owes her.

Cheers,

Yeap just go to the DOL, dont get the police involved, if the DOL take the case, they will take care of everthing

[bangkokburning]

Don't take Indian consular information for worth of anything. Do not report the school at least now, onlt ill will come. You will never see money and every minute of your time is wasted.

Go to Cambodia, you can get a visa for her there I presume (Lop will check me on this!!). Medicine has come a long way. Find a doctor or midwife to deliver and a hospital or clinic if there appear to be no issues in test and ultrasound.

Good luck!

[lopburi3]

Not sure OP is asking about childbirth and the subject is Indian making visa issue a home country trip AFAIK. Also not sure why the Indian Embassy Consular service would be any less likely to provide valid information than any others - in fact I suspect they would have a closer understanding as there is a huge expat Indian population in Thailand.

[bangkokburning]

It's just my impression from travelling India and living there off/on in the summer months. It's INDIA!

As for the child, was just popping out an alternative since staying in Thailand not looking so great.

============================================

OFF TOPIC but maybe of some help (FYI)

If I might add for OP. It is quite tedious to make an Indian visa from BKK these days. Best you research it asap if that is another avenue. If you are US you can make a ten year visa (M) staying six months (FROM USA ONLY) - but you must leave after that period for two months. I just had email from a friend that yesterday even that you can no longer report (SOME were being allowed, usually retirees). They will leave this winter. If you happen to be UK I hear five year visas are possible.

Edited September 8, 2012 by bangkokburning

[Soutpeel]

It's just my impression from travelling India and living there off/on in the summer months. It's INDIA!

As for the child, was just popping out an alternative since staying in Thailand not looking so great.

============================================

OFF TOPIC but maybe of some help (FYI)

If I might add for OP. It is quite tedious to make an Indian visa from BKK these days. Best you research it asap if that is another avenue. If you are US you can make a ten year visa (M) staying six months (FROM USA ONLY) - but you must leave after that period for two months. I just had email from a friend that yesterday even that you can no longer report (SOME were being allowed, usually retirees). They will leave this winter. If you happen to be UK I hear five year visas are possible.

Eh...

[manonthemon]

Hi everyone,

We're taking it very slow and try not to make any mess. We're not reporting the agency yet, maybe never - we don’t want to do it for the sake of doing it but to get our money. We went to the agency today and actually got them to admit their fault in all this (much thanx to the incredibly calm and peaceful manner of my GF, It wouldn’t be that nice if I did the talking) and there’s a chance that they might actually pay. We'll see and I'll let you know about the outcome.

The visa is a different story - they did promise it (it's in the contract) and they didn’t provide. Today they agreed to give us a document stating, that they were in the process of getting it for us - not sure what we need it for but I guess it's better to have it than not to have it. Anyhow - we're left to deal with the visa situation on or own. We already found a school which will give us papers for an ED visa for 15k but we do need to fly back to India to get it.

We have 2 weeks on her tourist visa. What we need is 2 weeks more. My question is - can she get an extension at the Immigration? I know I could get it no problem, 1900B and it's mine (I have a EU passport) . But are the rules different for Indians in that matter?

Thanx for all the hints. The baby will be delivered here in BKK. We've chosen hospital and all. Thailand is our home.

[elliss]

employment agencies , seldom if ever honour their promise to supply a work permit ,

they are just in it for the money . a dont give a monkeys if somebody is caught teaching without the reqd work permit .

back to topic ,, the lady concerned could apply for a education visa ,

these are probably the easiest visa to obtain, and the most abused .

when will they ever learn .

[CiaranO]

slightly off topic but how does an employment agency get a non b and WP for a teacher anyhow????? Do they do it through the school employing the teacher?

[Soutpeel]

slightly off topic but how does an employment agency get a non b and WP for a teacher anyhow????? Do they do it through the school employing the teacher?

The school employs the agency to recruit the teachers and the agency employers the teachers, the WP would be on the agency's books not the school.

[ubonjoe]

We have 2 weeks on her tourist visa. What we need is 2 weeks more. My question is - can she get an extension at the Immigration? I know I could get it no problem, 1900B and it's mine (I have a EU passport) . But are the rules different for Indians in that matter?

Yes she can get the 30 day extension at immigration for her current tourist visa entry.

There are some countries that cannot get them but India is not one of them.

[manonthemon]

Yes she can get the 30 day extension at immigration for her current tourist visa entry.

There are some countries that cannot get them but India is not one of them.

Thanx! Great, great news. Should we go and get it when the visa is almos expired or can we go and get it over with right away??

We're getting an ED visa. Like I said before - 15k for the course + the visa costs + the flight to India costs (we were planning to go there anyway so it's fine).

By the way - one school we contacted about the ed visa had a promotion on their website - 15k. When we called they said it's 20k cuz the promotions....isn't for Indians.......

fortunately we found a different school that isn't concerned with the nationality of their customers.

cheers,

[harrry]

What you have to watch is the airline restrictions on flying. Check with the airline on their rules regarding pregnant travellers. At the least she will need a medical certificate in a special form.

An example of conditions is:

http://www.jetairways.com/EN/TH/ProductAndServices/ExpectantMothers.aspx

quote

Expectant mothers with single uncomplicated pregnancies

• 
  Maybe permitted to fly till the start of 32nd week without a medical certificate.
  
• 
  Maybe permitted to fly till the end of 36 weeks provided there are no prior / present complications. However a certificate from treating obstetrician is required from the start of 32 weeks stating number of weeks the pregnancy has advanced and that the guest is fit to travel by air & that there are no complications.
  
• Maybe permitted to fly after the end of 36th week till end of 38th week provided the expectant mother has a 'Fitness to Fly' certificate / MEDIF from her treating obstetrician duly approved by 9W Medical Dept and she is accompanied by at least an MBBS doctor. Flying is not permitted under any circumstances after end of 38th week of pregnancy.
  

Edited September 9, 2012 by harrry

[IMA_FARANG]

Question:

The confirmed that many times later.

You're talking about the Work Permit here I presume?

The crucial point here I believe is....Is that promise anywhere in wrting?

I suspect that it isn't anywhere in writing...just a verbal contract?

If so, the problem is that a "verrbal contract" is only worth the paper it's NOT wriitten on.

Since that paper doesn't exist....a "verbal contract" is bascally useless.

Now, if it WAS written somewhere...and there's a copy of that document...then you may have a case against them.to be filed against the company by you with the Department of Labor

That would probably have need you to consult a lawyer first....and would mean you would have to retain a lawyer also.

But basically, without written proof....it's simply your (or in this casr her) word against their word.

Edited September 9, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[noob7]

Hi everyone,

We're taking it very slow and try not to make any mess. We're not reporting the agency yet, maybe never - we don’t want to do it for the sake of doing it but to get our money. We went to the agency today and actually got them to admit their fault in all this (much thanx to the incredibly calm and peaceful manner of my GF, It wouldn’t be that nice if I did the talking) and there’s a chance that they might actually pay. We'll see and I'll let you know about the outcome.

The visa is a different story - they did promise it (it's in the contract) and they didn’t provide. Today they agreed to give us a document stating, that they were in the process of getting it for us - not sure what we need it for but I guess it's better to have it than not to have it. Anyhow - we're left to deal with the visa situation on or own. We already found a school which will give us papers for an ED visa for 15k but we do need to fly back to India to get it.

We have 2 weeks on her tourist visa. What we need is 2 weeks more. My question is - can she get an extension at the Immigration? I know I could get it no problem, 1900B and it's mine (I have a EU passport) . But are the rules different for Indians in that matter?

Thanx for all the hints. The baby will be delivered here in BKK. We've chosen hospital and all. Thailand is our home.

If you feel Thailand is your home, why not try to find a legal perspective, to live and work here? Sounds a bit like, both of you aren't in legal status, for work, at the moment.

Or do you have a wp?

And for the 'bloody' 14 days, you need: how about a relaxed visarun, by train maybe? That gets you the two weeks, she needs

[lopburi3]

Indians do not have visa exempt status so a train ride is not going to provide anything but access to a Consulate outside Thailand and for Malaysia she will likely not be allowed to enter if they know she is six months pregnant

[bigt116]

Write this off to a bad experience and be a little wiser next time. One thing you need to understand, the visas have to be issued prior to obtaining a work permit. Visas must be obtained offshore and the WP onshore. Hope this helps.

Good luck with the pregnancy.

"Visas must be obtained offshore and the work permit onshore" , This is not true - you can arrive with a 15 visa exempt entry and as long as you have 10 or more days remaining of your permission to stay, this can be converted to a Non-B (for work purposes, with your employers sponsorship), at Immigration here in Thailand.

Edited September 9, 2012 by bigt116

[Mario2008]

If it conversion can be doen depends on a lot of factors, for many jobs 15 days is too short to get a decision on the work permit so it can not be done. In general, it is advised to forget about conversion and just get a non-B visa abroad.

[manonthemon]

Hi,

We do have a written contract stating that they will provide a WP so I guess we do have a case in the DOL - if we have to and decide to go down that road. Like I said before - the agency also promised to provide us with a document stating that they we're processing her documents for a Non B Visa.

I'm perfectly legal here - Non B, WP and all. She was too but than changed jobs and that's when the trouble started. We hoped her WP would be just transferred to the new job and the Non B extended but that didn't happen. All this really comes down to the agency not doing what they we're obliged (by their own contract) to do.

Anyway - we're much calmer now, as we know how to get her an ED visa. I did check Air Asia policies concerning pregnant passengers and we're ok there too.

The question is - if and when we get her money back, should we still go DOL, just for, I don't know - justice?

[Soutpeel]

The question is - if and when we get her money back, should we still go DOL, just for, I don't know - justice?

I wouldnt worry about justice, just take your money and dont worry about the DOL, you would have got the outcome you wanted...you got the money

[JosG]

The OP could always mention the school/agent on ajarn.com or Dave's ESL Cafe.

Sent from my LG-P500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[lannarose]

AFAIK Malaysia will not let females enter if they are six months pregnant for nationality reasons (many try to go there to get there child Malaysian citizenship by birth). Have personally seen this enforced.

Can't she hide the bulge under a saree?

[manonthemon]

Can't she hide the bulge under a saree?

She's not that much into traditional outfits. I'm not sure if she even has one here.

Anyway - do you know when should we go and get the extension at the immigration? Should we do it right away or better closer to the expiry date of her visa?

[lopburi3]

A week or so before expiration is what most do.

[RubbaJohnny]

Other hazard and I being non judgemental but based on experience here you have been nbreaking the law and leaves you open to extortion from any cop or firend who ever hears of your tale.

I personally cannot think with the obvious exception of pakistan where I ahve worked any people so racist against Indians as the Thais

UK NZ USA Malaysia Singapore all seem to accept the rich culture and culture.

Perhaps time to mull that over before raising a child here

Good luck and be aware the Ed visa route may not be there forever at this rate.

I am sure other lucrative avenues to milk foreigners will appear.

You do understand its just your cash they want

[manonthemon]

Hello,

The story continues, the plot thickens.

From what we’ve learned yesterday at the immigration Indians CAN NOT get a 30 days extension on their tourist visa - just 7 days and that’s what we got for her. But this means that we're left with a one-week gap between her visa date and her flight. Do you think overstaying for a couple of days would have any negative effect on her chances of getting an ED visa in a Thai consulate in India a few weeks later?

As for the agency - they did pay some of the money, half of it to be precise. It took many e-mails and texts to get them to do it but they did. I'm still not sure is it a total lack of professionalism on their side or just lack of goodwill.... or both. We're waiting for the rest of the salary.

In the meantime the school my GF applied to got her all the necessary documents for the ED visa. We're getting on a plane in 2 weeks and flying to Kolkata to get it. She's a bit worried about coming back to Thailand - her pregnancy shows a lot by now and we heard that Thai Immigration officers at the airport can be really mean to Indians getting into the country. But with a valid ED visa in her passport they have no reason to give her trouble am I right?

cheers,

[Mario2008]

Overstay normally has no consequences, but is not advised.

As has been said, your first trouble might be with the airline allowing her to fly. She might need a letter from a doctor that she is fit to fly.

For immigration pregnancy is no problem, as giving birth in Thailand does not mean the child gets Thai nationality.

[Soutpeel]

Wouldnt have thought the overstay would have any impact on her ed Visa, unless of course if they put a big red stamp in her PP and the consulate in India object to it.

On you other question Re immigration in all countries can hassle who ever they want its a perk of the job, irrespective of the visa in the PP, as visa doesnt allow you entry to a country, the immigration officer does

[ubonjoe]

The overstay should not be a problem. The small blue stamp (in Thai) they put in your passport is hardly noticeable.