Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[Kilgore Trout]

We must have a differing perspective on things, I wouldnt consider man or meung to be racist, in fact I hear it more often than not used to refer to other Thais rather than farang.

If you think this to be true, please try an expirement for me.

Next time you get in a cab with your Thai girlfriend say in earshot of the driver "man ja pai mai?"

Then say to the driver "meung sabai dee mai?"

Please do this and see what reaction you get; I predict your girlfriend will be extremely shocked, offended and embarrassed in front of the driver, and when you call the driver meung I will not be surprised when he takes out his tire iron under his seat.

Please do this and tell me if you get a positive reaction; otherwise explain to me how these words are not perceived as extremely offensive BY THAIS!

Let us know how it goes

Would love to help, however one small problem, I dont have a girlfriend, I have a wife.

I said these words werent racist, I didnt say they werent derogatory.

Seeing as there are more Thais than farang here in Thailand, is it any wonder I usually hear these words used when Thais refer to other Thais.

You know as well as I there are pronouns used that to the untrained ear may sound derogatory, but when used amongst family or close friends are perfectly accepatable, ai and ee being prime examples.

As for Somchai pulling out a tyre lever it didnt happen the last time I was with a bunch of Thai friends and some gobshite prick was mouthing off, in fact it resulted in laughter and soot yots.

Scenario, sat outside a mom n pop shop knocking back beer with friends.

Somchai at the other table shouts to the owner, ouan ao yaa gan yung ma farang moho, fatty bring a mossie coil the farang is pissed off.

What this gobshite wasnt aware of, I knew exactly what was being said as did the Thais I was sat with, so I shouted back to the owner, ouan farang mai pen rai jek gohok, fatty the farang has no problem the chinky is lieing. Much laughter from the locals, Somcahi didnt know whether to smile or shit himself.

"otherwise explain to me how these words are not perceived as extremely offensive BY THAIS!"

Answered above.

My response would be that, in for example, England or US, it would be quite common for good friends or family to say things to eachother that would sound rude to an outsider. "hey di#k head, how the <deleted> have you been you old rotter?"

However, I would hate to see the reaction you would get if you used a greeting like that on a cab driver in London.

Point is, Thais wouldn't use that language when referring to Thais they don't know, yet they have no problem using these terms in third person (or even more rudely, directly to a foreigner who doesn't understand) for a "farang."

The words themselves may not be racist, but the selectivity in using them with foreigners they don't know shows the disdain and ill respect they have for these people; imho-racism.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Kilgore Trout

[Semper]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

Well, there are many "black" men and women in France....

[hookedondhamma]

Point is, Thais wouldn't use that language when referring to Thais they don't know, yet they have no problem using these terms in third person (or even more rudely, directly to a foreigner who doesn't understand) for a "farang."

Great post.

Before the topic starts to get derailed again, let me put out the obligatory TV phrase. "Well, it's not just limited to thailand, they do it in [insert country here] and it's not considered a problem over there."

[Jayman]

Point is, Thais wouldn't use that language when referring to Thais they don't know, yet they have no problem using these terms in third person (or even more rudely, directly to a foreigner who doesn't understand) for a "farang."

Great post.

Before the topic starts to get derailed again, let me put out the obligatory TV phrase. "Well, it's not just limited to thailand, they do it in [insert country here] and it's not considered a problem over there."

It's not?

[emilyb]

Could not care less, yeah. I guess if I were born here and a Thai citizen I'd probably be put off a bit by the otherization, but as an immigrant it doesn't faze me.

[I Like Thai]

Now, if I hadn't known the big eyes meaning and had read this thread about how derogatory the word mun or mueang was, what might I have done.

They are calling you Dtaa Nam Ngern" which means 'blue eyes'. Nam Ngern which is usually spoken quicky ...... and to you sounds like 'mung'. Sorry, your poor hearing, doesn't mean they are being rude to you.

OK, not 'big eyes' but 'blue eyes' geddit?

If they wanted to insult you it would be 'Dtaa Luak' which is 'bug eyes'.

I was told that "Ta Mung" means Big eyes in the Issan dialect and in Thai it is "Ta Toe" I've heard this from a few different Thais

surely you must be misunderstanding. I don't even understand how "meung" (the informal way to say you) would even go in your sentence. If the girls at the counter were saying it and NOT talking directly TO you then "meung" doesn't even apply. And I would be quite surprised if a thai lady would walk up to you to deliver a compliment using the word "meung".

OK, maybe my ears aren't so good. I've been told that it is "Ta Moog" in Issan Laos ตาโม่ง. In Thai it is "Ta Tol" in Thai ตาโต.

Edited September 14, 2012 by I Like Thai

[TommoPhysicist]

OK, maybe my ears aren't so good. I've been told that it is "Ta Moog" in Issan Laos ตาโม่ง. In Thai it is "Ta Tol" in Thai ตาโต.

Ok, never seen that word before 'mohng' central Thai for 'unusually big or gigantic'

and 'dtaa toh' again central Thai meaning 'wide-eyed'

Edited September 14, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[I Like Thai]

OK, maybe my ears aren't so good. I've been told that it is "Ta Moog" in Issan Laos ตาโม่ง. In Thai it is "Ta Tol" in Thai ตาโต.

Ok, never seen that word before 'mohng' central Thai for 'unusually big or gigantic'

and 'dtaa toh' again central Thai meaning 'wide-eyed'

Thank you for that. Mohng definitely sounds better than Mung or Moog and I can see where it may have sounded like mun or meung in speech

[TommoPhysicist]

Thank you for that. Mohng definitely sounds better than Mung or Moog and I can see where it may have sounded like mun or meung in speech

Also confusing as 'mawng' means to 'look carefully or stare'

[Jayman]

OK, maybe my ears aren't so good. I've been told that it is "Ta Moog" in Issan Laos ตาโม่ง. In Thai it is "Ta Tol" in Thai ตาโต.

Ok, never seen that word before 'mohng' central Thai for 'unusually big or gigantic'

and 'dtaa toh' again central Thai meaning 'wide-eyed'

An neither is "mun" or "meung" or "farang" right? So can we agree that it was misheard and in no way was meant to be derogatory or said with malintent?

[cooked]

What a load of politically correct codswallop is being expressed here. People upset by the use of this word probably used words like 'wop' and '<deleted>' in their youth as an insult. As long as you live here you will be a Farang, the word is not an insult. I remember a tale about Israeli athletes puzzled by the fact that Arabs (yes, Arabs, is that a naughty word also) at an Olympic event were hissing 'Jews, Jews' at them. They responded by saying, yes, we are Jews, so what? (Kishon).

...

That actually is a very poor example.

A Jew is always a Jew anywhere in the world. Israel, Egypt, Sweden, Thailand and Jews know they are Jews, though of course the simple descriptive word Jew is also very often used in a derogatory way. Those Israelis knew that, but they were expressing confidence in their identity and choosing not to be insulted, but defiant and proud instead.

I for one do NOT self identify with the f-rang identity. That's a bridge too far for me. I won't go there. That is a false structure invented by the Thais. It's all about their world view and it has nothing to do with the world view OUTSIDE Thailand.

F-rangs? Those creamy people from the creamy countries who are labeled f-rangs first learn that they are labeled f-rangs when they come to Thailand. The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

The whole point of the story by Eprhraim Kishon was that the young jews were NOT aware that the word was an insult, and only became aware of it when they were told so.

[I Like Thai]

OK, maybe my ears aren't so good. I've been told that it is "Ta Moog" in Issan Laos ตาโม่ง. In Thai it is "Ta Tol" in Thai ตาโต.

Ok, never seen that word before 'mohng' central Thai for 'unusually big or gigantic'

and 'dtaa toh' again central Thai meaning 'wide-eyed'

An neither is "mun" or "meung" or "farang" right? So can we agree that it was misheard and in no way was meant to be derogatory or said with malintent?

Maybe a lot of problems arise because of this. Most of us don't have a full grasp of the Thai language and can hear or think we hear derogatory words, but in reality they may not be. But of course Thailand has it's share of people that are rude people and will use derogatory words and terms when dealing with foreigners. They are the same as people all over the world

[jacnl2000]

Sometimes the addition "Falang" is quite handy. In our home two different dvd's are present of which the first one is called "Mario" and the second one is named "Mario Falang" by our children.

[Jayman]

OK, maybe my ears aren't so good. I've been told that it is "Ta Moog" in Issan Laos ตาโม่ง. In Thai it is "Ta Tol" in Thai ตาโต.

Ok, never seen that word before 'mohng' central Thai for 'unusually big or gigantic'

and 'dtaa toh' again central Thai meaning 'wide-eyed'

An neither is "mun" or "meung" or "farang" right? So can we agree that it was misheard and in no way was meant to be derogatory or said with malintent?

Maybe a lot of problems arise because of this. Most of us don't have a full grasp of the Thai language and can hear or think we hear derogatory words, but in reality they may not be. But of course Thailand has it's share of people that are rude people and will use derogatory words and terms when dealing with foreigners. They are the same as people all over the world

I have no formal training in Thai language. I can neither read nor write Thai. The Thai I learned has been from listening to Thais speak for the 20+ years I have been coming here. My Thai is improving all the time. I can hold a basic conversation and for the most part when Thais here me speak they think I understand far more than I do. I just mimic their words and tones. I will freely admit that all my first thai lessons came from bar girls. I spoke Thai like a bar girl and many thais gave me odd looks when they would hear me speak. I honestly had no idea that I was using so much vulgar slang in my speech as I had no formal training. It wasn't till I met my wife some 8+ years ago that I was made aware how vulgar my speech was. She was not a BG and was shocked to hear me use such words. Since then it has been pointed out to me what words are appropriate for mixed company and what is considered very much inappropriate to be used by a foreigner under ANY circumstanced. Thais are allowed to use slang and "familiar" words with each other that I am not allowed to use even with my wife. She can say "meung" and "goo" with her brothers but I am not allowed to use such terms with her and she does not use them with me.

I sometimes very much misunderstand what is being said when I hear it. Most of my understanding of Thai comes from context rather than dictionary definition of words. It can be very easy to misunderstand the words they are using if you are not formally trained in this language.

That said, there are MANY occasions that I hear Thais using VERY derogatory language with each other as well as foreigners. I seem to know more bad words than good words as well as the context in which they are used. That's how it goes when you learn thai from listening to BGs.

I should add that I swear a lot in English and tend to speak like a sailor. It's funny to hear how my wife has picked up these words not knowing they are not appropriate to be used in mixed company. I always get a laugh when my wife unknowingly uses swears when speaking with my mother. She means no disrespect but honestly doesn't know she is using slang and swears.

[DrTuner]

You Farangs still at it ? Call Guinness.

[I Like Thai]

I have no formal training in Thai language. I can neither read nor write Thai. The Thai I learned has been from listening to Thais speak for the 20+ years I have been coming here. My Thai is improving all the time. I can hold a basic conversation and for the most part when Thais here me speak they think I understand far more than I do. I just mimic their words and tones. I will freely admit that all my first thai lessons came from bar girls. I spoke Thai like a bar girl and many thais gave me odd looks when they would hear me speak. I honestly had no idea that I was using so much vulgar slang in my speech as I had no formal training. It wasn't till I met my wife some 8+ years ago that I was made aware how vulgar my speech was. She was not a BG and was shocked to hear me use such words. Since then it has been pointed out to me what words are appropriate for mixed company and what is considered very much inappropriate to be used by a foreigner under ANY circumstanced. Thais are allowed to use slang and "familiar" words with each other that I am not allowed to use even with my wife. She can say "meung" and "goo" with her brothers but I am not allowed to use such terms with her and she does not use them with me.

I sometimes very much misunderstand what is being said when I hear it. Most of my understanding of Thai comes from context rather than dictionary definition of words. It can be very easy to misunderstand the words they are using if you are not formally trained in this language.

That said, there are MANY occasions that I hear Thais using VERY derogatory language with each other as well as foreigners. I seem to know more bad words than good words as well as the context in which they are used. That's how it goes when you learn thai from listening to BGs.

I should add that I swear a lot in English and tend to speak like a sailor. It's funny to hear how my wife has picked up these words not knowing they are not appropriate to be used in mixed company. I always get a laugh when my wife unknowingly uses swears when speaking with my mother. She means no disrespect but honestly doesn't know she is using slang and swears.

I can well imagine this. I was speaking with a Thai girl a few years bask who had very good English, only problem was that every second word was <deleted>/F**cking/C**t. It was horrible listening to her and she didn't even realise how bad it was. If she hadn't learned these words as part of her spoken vocabulary, she would have sounded so much nicer.

[55Jay]

You Farangs still at it ? Call Guinness.

Hey, damnit! I resemble that remark!

I like being a farang, better than an "alien", although I am both. I've never once woken up and wished I were Thai, but I like being married to one. Being a foreigner, an Expat, is what I signed up for. Knowingly. Being called a farang in Thailand is no problemo for me and I often think it has more to do with the disposition of the Farang than the Thai (in most cases). Some folks I see and hear in LOS are so miserable, I feel sorry some of them.

Fun part is flipping the coin. Drive with my wife in USA and see an Asian on the sidewalk. I get all excited, point, and say "Farang, Farang, Farang!!!" We have a good laugh together, and wonder if our plants are being watered enough back home.

Life is good.