Poorly Skilled Drivers And The Law: Thailand

[Nisa]

Agreed. Not only is there is an attitude of "I can do what I want" by drivers, but law enforcement is almost non-existant in Thailand.

<snip>

When I was driving in rural China between Kunming and Mengla (near the Lao border), mostly on the expressway, I received 4 speeding fines over the course of 3 days for a total of 1,100 Yuan (about 5,200 Baht).

hmmmm, maybe if people worked on their own driving skills and habits then criticizing others .... Glass houses

[Nisa]

Tomtomtom69 - it's a misconception to compare with the wealth of a country although poorer countries can't justify the road safety costs. India boasts a vibrant economy but has officially the worst road safety record in the world (and deserves it). The USA has the worst road safety record of the developed world, it's currently 26th out of 33 in the world, just ahead of Cambodia! Qatar, is per capita the wealthiest country in the world but road safety is shocking and the arrogant attitude to match it!

Not according to Wikipedia. They probably have more fatalities than most, but They also drive a lot more miles than the rest of the developed world.

The meaningful number is fatalities per mile driven (or per 100 million miles or per billion km)

Lets' see who's ahead of the USA at 8.5: fatalities per billion vehicle miles:

Austria at 8.9

Belgium at 10.8

Greece at 17.4

S Korea at 19.3

Spain at 11.7

New Zealand at 9.1

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Not to say Wikipedia is beyond questioning, just that the USA ain’t at the top of the list. Still, I suspect you have other numbers and I'm interested...

I didn't look at the link but the majority of road deaths in Thailand are from motorcycles and this makes sense since they are the majority of vehicles on the road here.

[Nisa]

I would assume the number one reason for car accidents here (possibly excluding alcohol) is driving/following too close. They really do need to have a campaign to educate people on this. They have markers on the highway but nobody knows what they are for and they are actually done wrong since they are using a fixed distance to stay behind instead of a fixed point based on time (2 second rule). I assume they put the marks on the highway assuming everyone will be going exactly the speed limit.

Drivers are actually fairly skilled here (at least in Bangkok) in terms of driving as well as being alert but they lack education and knowledge is the real problem be it seatbelt use, child seats, following too close or drinking and driving. It really is time for education on these topics, even the west needed went through this period and it is long over due for Thailand.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Nisa

[laislica]

Driving isn't about the physical aspect of handling a car, that's the easy part; driving is about hazard perception, interpreting risk and making decisions based upon that! I know from watching drivers here that there is a pattern of emerging from junctions without effective observation, they just go! This is partly down to a lack of control ( as stated) but most importantly, a lack of constructive training! Far too often driver will change lanes, turn or just go without checking mirrors!

Driver training has never and will never, on its own, cure road safety. The 'formula' for successful road safety is a combination of the 3 'E's; Education, Engineering and Enforcement. All three are weak if not non-existent in Thailand. This is one of the reasons why Thailand is not listed in the world road safety statistics as it's non-compliant! Although Cambodia is listed and has made great strides!

What ever happened to MSM Mirror, Signal, Maneuver?

I'm new in Thailand and I am shaken to my roots when I see motorcycles riding at speed the wrong way on motorways. Oh and cars, lorries etc.

The lack of enforcement encourages such misbehaviour.

"Rules of the road?" - The biggest wins! The stupid die!

No......the innocent die.

I agree, the innocent suffer.

I did however edit the post #149 and removed that line and replaced it with Thai rules of the road, rather tongue in cheek having adapted it from something that a friend sent me many years ago whilst he was traveling in India - well it seemed appropriate..

[FarangTalk]

I would assume the number one reason for car accidents here (possibly excluding alcohol) is driving/following too close.

It's speeding and drunk driving according to the Thai Police.

Drivers are actually fairly skilled here (at least in Bangkok) in terms of driving as well as being alert

Nonsense. The skill level required to pass the drivers' test is extremely low as has been discussed previously. I see no evidence on Bangkok roads of high skill levels of driving, but instead witness stupidity and dangerous driving on a daily basis.

If you want to talk skill levels Germany followed by the UK in that order. Lane discipline, manners, and good vehicular control. Three things notably absent on Thai roads.

[Beetlejuice]

What, you mean they have laws for drivers in Thailand?

I thought they just got into their vehicles, started the engine, took off, aimed and then it was every man for himself.

[Nisa]

I would assume the number one reason for car accidents here (possibly excluding alcohol) is driving/following too close.

It's speeding and drunk driving according to the Thai Police.

Drivers are actually fairly skilled here (at least in Bangkok) in terms of driving as well as being alert

Nonsense. The skill level required to pass the drivers' test is extremely low as has been discussed previously. I see no evidence on Bangkok roads of high skill levels of driving, but instead witness stupidity and dangerous driving on a daily basis.

If you want to talk skill levels Germany followed by the UK in that order. Lane discipline, manners, and good vehicular control. Three things notably absent on Thai roads.

I doubt the average German or UK Driver would (let along try) survive driving in Bangkok

[Nisa]

At least things are going in the right direction...

But still a ways to go ....

But as long as you have a higher percentage of motorbikes on the road vs cars, you're going to see higher death counts .... especially with there still being so many cars.

http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

Edited September 14, 2012 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

I would assume the number one reason for car accidents here (possibly excluding alcohol) is driving/following too close.

It's speeding and drunk driving according to the Thai Police.

Drivers are actually fairly skilled here (at least in Bangkok) in terms of driving as well as being alert

Nonsense. The skill level required to pass the drivers' test is extremely low as has been discussed previously. I see no evidence on Bangkok roads of high skill levels of driving, but instead witness stupidity and dangerous driving on a daily basis.

If you want to talk skill levels Germany followed by the UK in that order. Lane discipline, manners, and good vehicular control. Three things notably absent on Thai roads.

I doubt the average German or UK Driver would (let along try) survive driving in Bangkok

I'm British, I'm average, I have passed one of the hardest driving tests ever and I have driven in Bangkok..... that wasn't a problem, if anything, the most annoying part has been seeing my destination and being incapable of getting to it because of lines of standing traffic caused by an arrogant berk in tight brown trousers.

You do of course realise that there are places outside of Bangkok don't you, places where they have roads with two lanes without a gap or reservation in the middle, places where people will quite happily drive a few hundred yards against the normal traffic flow, places where overtaking on blind bends or on the brow of a hill is considered normal.

Bangkok is not Thailand, have you ever spent any time in the rest of the country ..... i.e. most of it.

[fasteddie]

Nothing to do with the fact most Thais have never taken a driving lesson in their lives then?

[squrrel]

Corruption,back handers & the police are the problem, like most people, every day I see drivers driving the wrong side of the road, driving the wrong way on the roads, motorbike riders with no crash helmets, school children riding bikes, bikes with 3, 4 & 5 passengers, drivers driving slowly in the fast lane, most road users overtaking on the inside lanes, drivers driving too fast and too close to the vehicle in front of them. In all the time I've been here I have only ever seen the police occasionally use a road block to catch bike riders not wearing helmets and if anybody is unfortunate enough to be stopped by the police for an offensive 200 Baht will ensure there are no proceedings. If you want a license in Thailand you can very easily buy it.

[dunkin2012]

what do these things mean?

1.Pull ON Yellow emergency light - don't get close to my car or when cars break down

2.Raise the head lights - stop I'll go you don't drive or please

[NangrongJ]

At least things are going in the right direction...

But still a ways to go ....

But as long as you have a higher percentage of motorbikes on the road vs cars, you're going to see higher death counts .... especially with there still being so many cars.

http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

At least things are going in the right direction...

But still a ways to go ....

But as long as you have a higher percentage of motorbikes on the road vs cars, you're going to see higher death counts .... especially with there still being so many cars.

http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

Those stats and any stats that come from Thailand are not recognised. When compiling such stats a varied form of statistics is used, not just one then what happens is a team of investigators will visit each county and audit the information. This excludes many countries and Thailand is one of them as they cannot provide accurate, reliable statistics and then one's that can be believed! India is the worst, China then take your pick from the Arabic and African countries! It must be understood that ion order to give an accurate appraisal ALL information is needed and Thailand is non-compliant. I'm told that whatever Thailand states you can multiply it by at least 5!

[Nisa]

Drivers are actually fairly skilled here (at least in Bangkok) in terms of driving as well as being alert but they lack education and knowledge is the real problem be it seatbelt use, child seats, following too close or drinking and driving. It really is time for education on these topics, even the west needed went through this period and it is long over due for Thailand.

Nonsense. The skill level required to pass the drivers' test is extremely low as has been discussed previously. I see no evidence on Bangkok roads of high skill levels of driving, but instead witness stupidity and dangerous driving on a daily basis.

If you want to talk skill levels Germany followed by the UK in that order. Lane discipline, manners, and good vehicular control. Three things notably absent on Thai roads.

I doubt the average German or UK Driver would (let along try) survive driving in Bangkok

I'm British, I'm average, I have passed one of the hardest driving tests ever and I have driven in Bangkok..... that wasn't a problem, if anything, the most annoying part has been seeing my destination and being incapable of getting to it because of lines of standing traffic caused by an arrogant berk in tight brown trousers.

You do of course realise that there are places outside of Bangkok don't you, places where they have roads with two lanes without a gap or reservation in the middle, places where people will quite happily drive a few hundred yards against the normal traffic flow, places where overtaking on blind bends or on the brow of a hill is considered normal.

Bangkok is not Thailand, have you ever spent any time in the rest of the country ..... i.e. most of it.

Never even came close to suggesting at the fact that Bangkok was all of Thailand but the bottom line is it is where more than half the cars in Thailand are and about half the accidents occur.

And good for you for having driven in Bangkok but to believe it doesn't take additional skill and awareness than driving the UK is a silly argument... might be one of the reasons why so many Brits die on the road both in Thailand and Bangkok, along with their thinking their driver test prepared them for it.

[brianP]

The chances of dying in Thailand by road accident is high. The more you drive the more chances you take and odds are eventually an accident will happen. Accidents are usually a number of variables of mistakes, even good defensive driving won't prevent the idiot from plowing into you at a red light. The mentality of the biggest and heaviest vehicle winning over a small and light one is a reality. The big heavy cars of 1950s Detroit meant mostly fatal accidents at higher speeds and many slow and medium speed accidents didn't injure people like today, with the lightweight plastic thin plated sheet metal cars, best hope you tangle only with a motorcy. Best still, take to the country roads and jungle trails when possible, and just presume the other driver is an unpredictable idiot. You will be right most of the time ! And watch out for my wife, mornings i ask where she is driving to, so i can avoid those dangerous areas!

[Nisa]

At least things are going in the right direction...

But still a ways to go ....

But as long as you have a higher percentage of motorbikes on the road vs cars, you're going to see higher death counts .... especially with there still being so many cars.

http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

At least things are going in the right direction...

But still a ways to go ....

But as long as you have a higher percentage of motorbikes on the road vs cars, you're going to see higher death counts .... especially with there still being so many cars.

http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

Those stats and any stats that come from Thailand are not recognised. When compiling such stats a varied form of statistics is used, not just one then what happens is a team of investigators will visit each county and audit the information. This excludes many countries and Thailand is one of them as they cannot provide accurate, reliable statistics and then one's that can be believed! India is the worst, China then take your pick from the Arabic and African countries! It must be understood that ion order to give an accurate appraisal ALL information is needed and Thailand is non-compliant. I'm told that whatever Thailand states you can multiply it by at least 5!

You should be carefully about believing what you are told (worse repeating it) without facts. Just because you choose to not recognize something doesn't mean the people with actual knowledge that collect, use and compare the data globally think the same as you.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Nisa

[NangrongJ]

Nisa, I only deal in facts! I don't google stats and I don't believe what any government throws out, in particular, Thailand!

[Nisa]

Those stats and any stats that come from Thailand are not recognised. When compiling such stats a varied form of statistics is used, not just one then what happens is a team of investigators will visit each county and audit the information. This excludes many countries and Thailand is one of them as they cannot provide accurate, reliable statistics and then one's that can be believed! India is the worst, China then take your pick from the Arabic and African countries! It must be understood that ion order to give an accurate appraisal ALL information is needed and Thailand is non-compliant. I'm told that whatever Thailand states you can multiply it by at least 5!

Nisa, I only deal in facts! I don't google stats and I don't believe what any government throws out, in particular, Thailand!

Based on your last posts, it seems clear you you only deal in information (regardless if false) you choose to believe and make false statements about other facts and information to not deal with it.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Nisa

[NangrongJ]

NISA- I've been involved at the highest levels of road safety for over 20 years. I've given presentations in London, Kuwait and Oman. I was invited by the Ukrainian road safety office to advise them on road safety which included addressing their government. I was given an award by the American Society of Safety Engineers for a lecture on road safety.

I could go on but I think you get the message that I don't have to justify myself top you. Yours is a matter of opinion, mine is an opinion that matters and I get paid for it!

[Nisa]

NISA- I've been involved at the highest levels of road safety for over 20 years. I've given presentations in London, Kuwait and Oman. I was invited by the Ukrainian road safety office to advise them on road safety which included addressing their government. I was given an award by the American Society of Safety Engineers for a lecture on road safety.

I could go on but I think you get the message that I don't have to justify myself top you. Yours is a matter of opinion, mine is an opinion that matters and I get paid for it!

Ok, being and expert on such matters, it should be VERY easy for you to back up your claims. You stated:

1.

Those stats and any stats that come from Thailand are not recognised.

2 . It must be understood that ion order to give an accurate appraisal ALL information is needed and

Thailand is non-compliant

.

3. I'm told that whatever Thailand states you can multiply it by at least 5!

Please back up these 3 statements with sources of what global agencies responsible for report, compile and distribute these stats make any of these claims.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Nisa

[NangrongJ]

Nisa -I'm not going to load this forum with information that is obvious and well-known! Neither am I gong to give you a lecture because you cannot accept what you evidently don't understand! Thailand refuses to comply with the UN/WHO as does India and most Arabic states. China has recently come on board and complying. It took the USA a decade to comply!

There are many methods used and they differ depending on the country!

[Nisa]

Nisa -I'm not going to load this forum with information that is obvious and well-known! Neither am I gong to give you a lecture because you cannot accept what you evidently don't understand! Thailand refuses to comply with the UN/WHO as does India and most Arabic states. China has recently come on board and complying. It took the USA a decade to comply!

There are many methods used and they differ depending on the country!

Funny because the UN (WHO) lists Thailand in their road deaths and accidents figures without any mention of they are not recognized or needing to be multiplied by 5 as you state.

But judging from your very emotional responses (or obsession with !'s), best to let this debate of what is reality vs what is opinion end.

[NangrongJ]

Nisa WHO/UN state many things, in particular to stimulate countries into being compliant, it's worked with China recently! The 'league table or 33 countries (yes just 33) is for compliant countries only and and Thailand is not included for that reason!

I don't know how you think my response was emotional. But it can be tedious having to explain to those who won't understand. If you want to talk about obsessions then just keep responding.

[MikeOboe57]

At least things are going in the right direction...

But still a ways to go ....

But as long as you have a higher percentage of motorbikes on the road vs cars, you're going to see higher death counts .... especially with there still being so many cars.

http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

Nisa, why don't you ask yourself: What decisive event took place in 2003 that not only stopped the rise in traffic related deaths but also initiated a rapid and continuous decline in numbers. If you find nothing then your statistic can rightfully be attributed to "creative accounting".

I've been visting Thailand since 2006 and took up permanent residence in August this year. Any change in traffic behaviour I've witnessed so far was for the worse.

[Thaddeus]

Never even came close to suggesting at the fact that Bangkok was all of Thailand but the bottom line is it is where more than half the cars in Thailand are and about half the accidents occur.

Really?

[Nisa]

Nisa WHO/UN state many things, in particular to stimulate countries into being compliant, it's worked with China recently! The 'league table or 33 countries (yes just 33) is for compliant countries only and and Thailand is not included for that reason!

I don't know how you think my response was emotional. But it can be tedious having to explain to those who won't understand. If you want to talk about obsessions then just keep responding.

Dude you really are reaching now ... First you say the UN doesn't recognize stats from Thailand which was false and now you go on to state some League Tables (again with no link or source) indicating they only believe stats from 33 of their near 200 members including until recently one of the 5 countries with Veto power on the security counsel.

Why not just admit you originally expressed an opinion about road death stats from Thailand instead of falsely telling people the numbers are not accepted when in fact they are and not only accepted by WHO but used and reported by numerous other global entities.

And by the way! When somebody uses exclamation points! It indicates they are being emotional!

[Nisa]

Never even came close to suggesting at the fact that Bangkok was all of Thailand but the bottom line is it is where more than half the cars in Thailand are and about half the accidents occur.

Really?

2008

(2009) Personal Cars Bangkok: 2,379,457 Rest of Thailand: 2,117,371

On average 1,200 new Vehicles were registered in Bangkok every day last year.

You can also see that the Wiki Page for Thai license plates states that the Bangkok Plate is the most common.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Nisa

[NangrongJ]

Nisa I've not made any false claims, it's my profession! As for exclamation marks and emotion! Well, I thought it emphasised a point, never heard of it being used as an emotion! Seems not only do you want to contradict me without any evidence but you want to judge my character by exclamation marks!

I think you need to get out more often or change the medication. Either way, it's best to comment only what you know and not what you know! Read back through all of the posts and have a little thought!

[NangrongJ]

And Nisa I'm not referring to the UN and it's politic I'm referring to UN/WHO which is not voted or vetoed! I could fill pages here but it would be pointless, with you anyway!

[smedly]

why is it that these threads always seem to end up at a personal level, give it a rest guys and just agree to differ

Two accidnts I have personally observed in Thailand involved both drivers on mobile phones, I observed as I walking to cross a road, I have seen many near misses, I also haven't been on the road any one day here and have not come across the aftermath of an accident