Poorly Skilled Drivers And The Law: Thailand

[eezergood]

Statistics can be manipulated to mean what YOU want them to! FACT

At the end of the day, the original point (that pertaining to the imbecile author) , it total twaddle. It is the revert to type style actions/journalism that we are used to here in the fine kingdom - Its not my fault, it was......... You can fill in the blank yourself

The reason I am fat? It was McDonalds.......

[draftvader]

From the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office official website.

An International Driving Permit or Thai driving licence is required to drive in Thailand.

In Thailand 124,855 people were killed in road traffic accidents between 2000 and 2010 meaning that on average there were over 12,000 deaths a year from road traffic accidents during this period. In the UK there have been on average about 3,000 deaths from road traffic accidents each year over the past decade. In any comparison of these statistics, you should note that there is a difference in the method of calculating statistics for road deaths in Thailand (at the scene of the accident) and the UK (within 30 days of the accident). The risk of death or injury on the road increases if you travel at night.

http://www.fco.gov.u...land#roadtravel

Keep 'em comin' Nisa, I'll keep knocking 'em down.

Yea and it is wrong, as I said, look at the stats from Thailand which define how the numbers are derived and their source and not your embassy web page which has other inaccurate assumptions too.

I cannot find a working link but you can refer back to this thread or do your own search as it gets old showing searching out compiled data just to have people believe what they want anyway ... http://www.thaivisa....50#entry4948538

I think that FarangTalk and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. In short, please bear in mind that this is my living, ALL data is corruptible. It doesn't matter where it comes from there are NO perfect data sets. When a report comes out saying "The public wants x,y and z from the government" want that actually means is that "The first 1,000/2,000/3,000 (size of dataset) people we met claimed they preferred option "a" to option "b"". The data is then represented as "A vast majority of people want this". If the same dataset had been the whole nation and the question was not multiple choice then the data would be impossible to interpret. So, in reality, I am stating that my job is a farce. However we nothing else to go by and, if interpreted intelligently and understanding the factors involved, we can start to build a "picture". If this job was any easier then we would all be able to make as much money as we like as the answers would be exact.

Even science suffers from this. Medical trials can cover 1,000/2,000/3,000 people but then the drug will be administered to 2,000,000 people in the world. If there was an effective data reporting system for this then it might prove the drugs success, but it might also prove its failure and which company is going to pay money to track failure?

Data interpretation is much more difficult than number crunching, particularly when it involves humans.

--EDITED--

Because your can't use b ) as an option without it turning into

Edited September 15, 2012 by draftvader

[NangrongJ]

We've all gone for a bit of a wander on this topic but that's not been a bad thing as there's been many good contributions. It started by the author making illogical, ignorant and ill-informed comments and referring to himself as an expert, or at least alluding to do so. I hope the editor of the Nation reads some of these posts and is now educated as to who should comment on matters of road safety or at least who is qualified to do so in a newspaper article.

The author has only served to bring ridicule upon himself as well as embarrass the newspaper but ultimately the blame lies with the newspaper for allowing this.

Any Thai who has happened to wander in (perhaps after a wrong turn) and read these posts must be better informed that the article the author has written. I would just love the problem of road safety in this wonderful country to improve but sadly I'm not optimistic for many reasons that I can't put in print but based upon meetings here in Thailand. Until then sadly people will suffer needless deaths and injuries.

[Nisa]

From the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office official website.

An International Driving Permit or Thai driving licence is required to drive in Thailand.

In Thailand 124,855 people were killed in road traffic accidents between 2000 and 2010 meaning that on average there were over 12,000 deaths a year from road traffic accidents during this period. In the UK there have been on average about 3,000 deaths from road traffic accidents each year over the past decade. In any comparison of these statistics, you should note that there is a difference in the method of calculating statistics for road deaths in Thailand (at the scene of the accident) and the UK (within 30 days of the accident). The risk of death or injury on the road increases if you travel at night.

http://www.fco.gov.u...land#roadtravel

Keep 'em comin' Nisa, I'll keep knocking 'em down.

Yea and it is wrong, as I said, look at the stats from Thailand which define how the numbers are derived and their source and not your embassy web page which has other inaccurate assumptions too.

I cannot find a working link but you can refer back to this thread or do your own search as it gets old showing searching out compiled data just to have people believe what they want anyway ... http://www.thaivisa....50#entry4948538

I think that FarangTalk and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. In short, please bear in mind that this is my living, ALL data is corruptible. It doesn't matter where it comes from there are NO perfect data sets. When a report comes out saying "The public wants x,y and z from the government" want that actually means is that "The first 1,000/2,000/3,000 (size of dataset) people we met claimed they preferred option "a" to option "b"". The data is then represented as "A vast majority of people want this". If the same dataset had been the whole nation and the question was not multiple choice then the data would be impossible to interpret. So, in reality, I am stating that my job is a farce. However we nothing else to go by and, if interpreted intelligently and understanding the factors involved, we can start to build a "picture". If this job was any easier then we would all be able to make as much money as we like as the answers would be exact.

Even science suffers from this. Medical trials can cover 1,000/2,000/3,000 people but then the drug will be administered to 2,000,000 people in the world. If there was an effective data reporting system for this then it might prove the drugs success, but it might also prove its failure and which company is going to pay money to track failure?

Data interpretation is much more difficult than number crunching, particularly when it involves humans.

--EDITED--

Because your can't use b ) as an option without it turning into

You can sing whatever tune you want but it is not relevant as I simply stated that it was wrong to state the vehicle death rates in Thailand don't count those who die within 30-days of an accident.

I also never said data was perfect but it is VERY useful when comparing data with other countries as the same basic formulas are used (why organization like WHO use and report such data) as well as it being able to gauge trends and numerous other reason professionls turn to and rely on this data as being the most accurate ... and why they don't turn to ThaiVisa experts and decide they should increase the number by 5 fold

But I do agree with your tune , just not your interpretation of my post which which was correcting a myth often stated here.

[eezergood]

We've all gone for a bit of a wander on this topic but that's not been a bad thing as there's been many good contributions. It started by the author making illogical, ignorant and ill-informed comments and referring to himself as an expert, or at least alluding to do so. I hope the editor of the Nation reads some of these posts and is now educated as to who should comment on matters of road safety or at least who is qualified to do so in a newspaper article.

The author has only served to bring ridicule upon himself as well as embarrass the newspaper but ultimately the blame lies with the newspaper for allowing this.

Any Thai who has happened to wander in (perhaps after a wrong turn) and read these posts must be better informed that the article the author has written. I would just love the problem of road safety in this wonderful country to improve but sadly I'm not optimistic for many reasons that I can't put in print but based upon meetings here in Thailand. Until then sadly people will suffer needless deaths and injuries.

I was going to write an email to this joker & cc the editor BUT as this is your field & have made some, very well written, points perhaps.........?????

Edited September 15, 2012 by eezergood

[FarangTalk]

I simply stated that it was wrong to state the vehicle death rates in Thailand don't count those who die within 30-days of an accident.

So you keep saying yet you provide no proof of that.

And we have the official FCO website from the UK saying the Thai statistics are calculated differently and only include those that die at the scene of an accident.

Who to believe?

[NangrongJ]

I would have thought the admin of Thai Visa could do that. But if I can get the editor of the Nations email I will as it can only help.

[eezergood]

mailto:[email protected]

[Thaddeus]

The author has only served to bring ridicule upon himself as well as embarrass the newspaper but ultimately the blame lies with the newspaper for allowing this.

Perhaps that may be what the newspaper wanted to happen, the first bit anyway.

[Bagwan]

After more than 2 years, driving 40.000 km on Thailand's roads in my SUV, I have no bad experiences at all. Of course one has to drive defensive, especially when it comes to kids on motorbikes, but in general I find the Thai car drivers relaxed and polite. Got stopped some 10 times in checkpoints, got fined once for speeding, never got hassled for bribes or tea money. I just returned from a 3 week road trip through Malaysia, obviously the toll roads there are much better than any road in Thailand, except the toll roads in Bangkok. Most Malaysian drivers are more relaxed than Thai, but I found that there is category in Malaysia that drives like maniacs, speeding, tail-gating, ignoring each and every rule in the book. Hardly ever see such crazy mofo's in Thailand.

I've done 90,000km in Thailand over the last seven years and you must be driving with your eyes closed - no offence intended, every traffic law I am aware of has been broken multiple times every time I go on the road, western traffic police would have a field day here

Actually, a German traffic cop would probably have a complete mental breakdown after 10 minutes.

Or writers cramp.

[Bagwan]

I would assume the number one reason for car accidents here (possibly excluding alcohol) is driving/following too close.

It's speeding and drunk driving according to the Thai Police.

Drivers are actually fairly skilled here (at least in Bangkok) in terms of driving as well as being alert

Nonsense. The skill level required to pass the drivers' test is extremely low as has been discussed previously. I see no evidence on Bangkok roads of high skill levels of driving, but instead witness stupidity and dangerous driving on a daily basis.

If you want to talk skill levels Germany followed by the UK in that order. Lane discipline, manners, and good vehicular control. Three things notably absent on Thai roads.

I doubt the average German or UK Driver would (let along try) survive driving in Bangkok

So that makes me exceptional then? So far.

[Nisa]

there is no "Driving Test" and the closest comes to a fake gas and brake pedal to test reaction/reflex .. no aiming or steering.

Wrong again, there is a practical driver's test in an actual motor vehicle. I had to do it.

Sorry, I was thinking about foreigners with a recognized drivers license who don't need to take a driving test.

[Nisa]

I simply stated that it was wrong to state the vehicle death rates in Thailand don't count those who die within 30-days of an accident.

So you keep saying yet you provide no proof of that.

As I had previously stated, this has been covered on ThaiVisa before and even provided you a link to one of the threads but since the numbers you questioned here were from WHO then I will provide yet another link and quote directly from WHO ... http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_status/q_a/en/

How can countries compare themselves with others?

Comparison between countries is easy because a standard method has been applied to the collection of all information. For example, the report contains an annex of tables showing reported deaths (

adjusted to a definition of death within 30 days of the crash

), number of deaths based on a statistical model, the existence of each of the key laws and perceived enforcement levels, as well as other indicators studied in the report.

However, I suspect you will still deny the numbers posted here included deaths within 30-days of an accident.

[FarangTalk]

However, I suspect you will still deny the numbers posted here included deaths within 30-days of an accident.

You are now being obtuse. Thailand does not include deaths within 30 days of an accident and only records deaths at the scene as confirmed by multiple sources on the internet.

[smedly]

guys what is the point of this argument, just agree to differ and move on

One thing I am personally convinced of is that there are no accurate figures come from Thailand from any government department, they either lie (openly admitted last week by a government minister) or have no clue what real figures are either way I trust none of it

[NangrongJ]

Smedly - that was basically my point, there are no accurate figures from Thailand and those that are pushed out are not trusted. Many accidents have gone unrecorded and not just for malicious reasons, mainly incompetence.

[cyborgx]

There are so many contributing factors to the problem, but better safer cars is not one of them.....

Lack of education - Ask a taxi driver if he's ever been told about "stopping distances"? He'll just give you the usual Thai laugh meaning - "I have no clue what you are talking about therefore I will laugh in the hope you are joking, but in reality just prove how ignorant I am about the lives I take into my hands".

Useless testing - Yes there is testing, but if you don't pass first time bribery is a clear option.

No testing for foreigners - Having an international licence, All I got was a colour blindness test, and even that was done badly with little or no interest in the results shown by the examiner. The last time I went they had a new addition. This time I had to watch a ridiculous 1 hour video which was more like a Thai Soap opera than an educational video! Most just walked out of it before it was finished. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended with a ghost coming back and reaking revenge on someone!

Vehicle Testing - The number of rustbuckets held together by masking tape and belching black smoke is a testament to how good the testing procedures are. They are more interested in knowing if the engine has changed than if the brakes work properly!

Rear Seat Belts - Hidden under seats in taxi's and most cars for aesthetic purposes, and not required use by law? I'd like to see the stats on passenger deaths and injuries from Taxi accidents!

Law Enforcements - We all know the boys in brown happily accept backhanders for minor traffic offences, but they seem to have little interest in stopping dangerous driving.

And don't get me started on Tuk Tuks or Motorbikes!

My first steps would be Proper education and stricter testing.

Get the worst offenders and vehicles off the road first. That means road blocks stopping and confiscating unregistered and/or unroadworthy vehicles, especially bikes. It's the only way to get rid of them since they can't pay the fines, and usually get off with a warning. Take their deathtrap unregistered jalopy's and turn them into little square lumps of the scrap they truly are.

This has manyfold benefits:-

stops youngsters getting used to treating roads like their own little slalom course.

reduces the number of "mosquito's" buzzing around Bangkok causing and/or being victims of the already bad accidents in the cities.

Improves the average roadworthiness of vehicles by removing the ones that shouldn't be on the roads anyway

I could write pages on this stuff .....

[JoeLing]

The reason for people these days driving without much care is the increasing number of automobiles being produced around the world.

......., which mean that they are unable to choose in selling the cars to people who have good driving skills.

Haven't read so much chickenshit in years. Who is this guy? Does he work for the Cartoon Network?

[Tomtomtom69]

Not only do Thai drivers not know the rules of the road, many of them aren't aware that there are rules. The Blether is absolutely correct about the lack of enforcement, there are enough police to do much more than they are. There also seems to be a class issue, if I drive a new Benz and you are driving a fifteen year old Ford, you should get out of my way attitude.

If you're driving A Benz or a Beamer or even Accord or Fortuner etc and a guy in an old banger rams into you or cuts across your path you'll be expected to pay his damage and injury bills because you can afford it. If you're Thai and connected then this may not apply but for the farang it is your fault and you will be expected to pay for the poor Thai driver's damages anyway. This TOTALLY sucks and needs to be corrected but for the time being and forseeable furture (like forever) that's just the way it is!

I totally agree with you but I can guarantee you that a rich Thai driver will also be made to pay, possibly more so than the foreigner equivalent you have used as an example. Why? Because the poor THai would not allow a rich local to get away that easily nor would a rich Thai want to end up in jail when they can just pay their way out.

[NangrongJ]

Just to let you all know I've written to the editor yesterday and await a reply. My comments were constructive but critical to the point of using and inexperienced, unqualified person giving an expert opinion that conflicted with international road safety practices. I provided my full name, address and phone number also supporting evidence of road safety articles I've written in many countries as well as being a former registered expert witness in uk. I also respectfully suggested the editor reads this forum as there was many good, informative and intelligent comments. I will let you know of the response, if any but being Thailand the edito will be in Ostrich mode!

[Tomtomtom69]

Driving isn't about the physical aspect of handling a car, that's the easy part; driving is about hazard perception, interpreting risk and making decisions based upon that! I know from watching drivers here that there is a pattern of emerging from junctions without effective observation, they just go! This is partly down to a lack of control ( as stated) but most importantly, a lack of constructive training! Far too often driver will change lanes, turn or just go without checking mirrors!

Driver training has never and will never, on its own, cure road safety. The 'formula' for successful road safety is a combination of the 3 'E's; Education, Engineering and Enforcement. All three are weak if not non-existent in Thailand. This is one of the reasons why Thailand is not listed in the world road safety statistics as it's non-compliant! Although Cambodia is listed and has made great strides!

What ever happened to MSM Mirror, Signal, Maneuver?

I'm new in Thailand and I am shaken to my roots when I see motorcycles riding at speed the wrong way on motorways. Oh and cars, lorries etc.

The lack of enforcement encourages such misbehaviour.

Travelling in Thailand is an almost hallucinatory potion of sound, spectacle & experience. It is frequently heart-rending, sometimes hilarious, mostly exhilarating, always unforgettable -- and, when you are on the roads, extremely dangerous.

Most Thai road users observe a version of the Highway Code based on a Sanskrit text.

These 12 rules of the Thai road are published for the first time in English.

RULE 1

The assumption of immortality is required of all road users.

RULE 2

Thai traffic, like Thai society, is structured on a strict caste system.

The following precedence must be accorded at all times in descending order, give way to: cows, elephants, heavy trucks, buses, official cars, camels, light trucks, buffalo, jeeps, ox-carts, private cars, motorcycles, scooters, auto rickshaws, pigs, pedal rickshaws, goats, bicycles (goods-carrying), handcarts, bicycles (passenger-carrying), dogs, pedestrians.

RULE 3

All wheeled vehicles shall be driven in accordance with the maxim: to slow is to falter, to brake is to fail, to stop is to be defeated. This is the Thai drivers mantra.

RULE 4

Use of horn (also known as the sonic fender):

Cars - Short blasts (urgent) indicate supremacy, i.e. in clearing dogs and pedestrians from path.

- Long blasts (desperate) denote supplication, i.e. to on-coming truck, "I am going too fast to stop, so unless you slow down we shall both die". In extreme cases this may be accompanied by flashing headlights (frantic).

- Single blast (casual) means "I have seen someone out of Thailand's 60 million whom I recognise" "There is a bird in the road (which at this speed could go through my windscreen) or "I have not blown my horn for several minutes".

675]Trucks & buses - All horn signals have the same meaning, viz. "I have an all-up weight of approximately 12.5 tons and have no intention of stopping, even if I could". This signal may be emphasised by the use of headlamps.

RULE 5

All manoeuvres, use of horn and evasive action shall be left until the last possible moment.

RULE 6

In the absence of seat belts, car occupants shall wear garlands of marigolds. These should be kept fastened at all times.

RULE 7

Rights of way: Traffic entering a road from the left has priority, so has traffic from the right, and also traffic in the middle. Lane discipline: All Thai traffic at all times and irrespective of direction of travel shall occupy the centre of the road.

RULE 8

Roundabouts : Thailand has no roundabouts. Apparent traffic islands in the middle of the cross-roads have no traffic management function. Any other impression should be ignored. That’s what U-Turns are for.

RULE 9

Overtaking is mandatory. Every moving vehicle is required to overtake every other moving vehicle, irrespective of whether it has just overtaken you. Overtaking should only be undertaken in suitable conditions, such as in the face of oncoming traffic, on blind bends, at junctions and in the middle of village/town/city centres. No more than 2 inches should be allowed between your vehicle and the one you are passing - and one inch in the case of bicycles or pedestrians.

RULE 10

Nirvana may be obtained through the head-on crash.

RULE 11

Reversing: No longer applicable since no vehicle in Thailand has reverse gear.

RULE 12

The 10th incarnation of God was an articulated tanker.

You're right about horns only being used in the last minute. However, horns are in general so rarely used in Thailand you'd think that Thai drivers are very patient. Compare this to the constant horn tooting in Vietnam, where horns are used not only to blow motorcycles and other "obstacles" off the road but they also come in all sorts of different sounds! I've heard horns with jingle bells tunes!! Perhaps Thai truck drivers could learn something from their Vietnamese compatriots when it comes to the use of horns? I guess the main reason that doesn't happen is because there aren't enough "cultural exchanges" going on due to Vietnamese government restrictions, haha: Thai trucks can not enter Vietnam because their steering wheels are on the right hand side of the vehicle, which Vietnam does not recognize as being valid for driving on Vietnamese roads except for private caravan tours led by a local tour leader.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

Agreed. Not only is there is an attitude of "I can do what I want" by drivers, but law enforcement is almost non-existant in Thailand.

<snip>

When I was driving in rural China between Kunming and Mengla (near the Lao border), mostly on the expressway, I received 4 speeding fines over the course of 3 days for a total of 1,100 Yuan (about 5,200 Baht).

hmmmm, maybe if people worked on their own driving skills and habits then criticizing others .... Glass houses

Well first of all, I got caught for driving only slightly in excess of the speed limit in 3/4 cases, which is no excuse of course. But it still doesn't change the fact that China has implemented a first-world standard of law enforcement that Thailand could learn from. I didn't realize there would be speed cameras in Sipsongbanna, in rural areas close to the Lao and Burmese borders, but my experience proved that you gotta be careful everywhere and expect the unexpected!

[hellodolly]

Almost sounds like the diversionary tactics which appear in threads.

Forget any bad driving issue in Thailand because it happens all over the world

Well yes it does seem to happen all over the world.

But that is not as big a problem as people make it out to be.

Watch most Thais when they are driving they do not have as a rule the ability to measure distances or whith. Watch them creep around a corner real slow. A corner you could put a 18 wheeler around faster. They are unsure of where there car is in relationship to things around them. Also watch them when a car is approaching them on a narrow two way street they will slow down even though they have at least a foot of room on both sides.

But strangely enough in heavy traffic they seem to be able to move over a lane with out a accident. I think part of that is the driver in the other lane slows down to let them in.

Kinda like the auto with the bumper ahead of the other has the right of way.

[zakk9]

Here's a survey that explains some of the underreporting of traffic deaths in Thailand:

http://www.pophealthmetrics.com/content/8/1/11

The research behind the report was done between 2005 and 2010, and some of the conclusions are:

- Annual mortality statistics from vital registration systems in Thailand are of limited utility because about 40% of deaths are registered with unknown or nonspecific causes.

- Study findings suggest that the leading causes of death in Thailand among males are stroke (9.4%); transport accidents (8.1%); HIV/AIDS (7.9%); ischemic heart diseases (6.4%); and chronic obstructive lung diseases (5.7%).

- For females, the number of transport accident deaths are too low to be reported separately, but they are included in the total statistics. While there were officially 11,050 deaths in road traffic accidents in Thailand in 2005, the survey indicates that the real number is 24,843. The figure is based on statistical methods, but it's fair to believe that the real number of traffic deaths in that year must have been between 23 and 26,000, at least twice as many as the official statistics.

- Somewhat unrelated to this discussion is the fact that the same year, 8,334 deaths by HIV/AIDS were reported, while the survey indicates more than 30,000.

- One of the most important reasons for the underreporting of some kinds of death in Thailand is that relatives bias the causes of death to avoid stigma. This is particularly common with HIV/AIDS, but also with traffic accidents.

[Noistar]

Here's a survey that explains some of the underreporting of traffic deaths in Thailand:

http://www.pophealthmetrics.com/content/8/1/11

The research behind the report was done between 2005 and 2010, and some of the conclusions are:

- Annual mortality statistics from vital registration systems in Thailand are of limited utility because about 40% of deaths are registered with unknown or nonspecific causes.

- Study findings suggest that the leading causes of death in Thailand among males are stroke (9.4%); transport accidents (8.1%); HIV/AIDS (7.9%); ischemic heart diseases (6.4%); and chronic obstructive lung diseases (5.7%).

- For females, the number of transport accident deaths are too low to be reported separately, but they are included in the total statistics. While there were officially 11,050 deaths in road traffic accidents in Thailand in 2005, the survey indicates that the real number is 24,843. The figure is based on statistical methods, but it's fair to believe that the real number of traffic deaths in that year must have been between 23 and 26,000, at least twice as many as the official statistics.

- Somewhat unrelated to this discussion is the fact that the same year, 8,334 deaths by HIV/AIDS were reported, while the survey indicates more than 30,000.

- One of the most important reasons for the underreporting of some kinds of death in Thailand is that relatives bias the causes of death to avoid stigma. This is particularly common with HIV/AIDS, but also with traffic accidents.

Sounds like a case of 'white lie syndrome'

[Businessman]

"The important thing is that when manufacturers invent and provide us with various driver assistance systems, the driver must also learn to adapt so that they can fully make use of these features."

The author is talking of things like ABS and other safety equipment. IMO if you drive carefully ou should rarely need these features. Now are we to understand the author advocates learning how to to use these? Ok gang, everyone now run into a utility pole to learn how to use your airbags. What utter nonsense!

[mancub]

What, you mean they have laws for drivers in Thailand?

I thought they just got into their vehicles, started the engine, took off, aimed and then it was every man for himself.

Exactly right ! 'Free-style" is how my wife descibes the driving culture here.....and she's Thai. !!!

[mancub]

Nisa - when you draw your conclusions, choose crayon with nice colours!

Your conclusions are what you want them to be!

Maybe throw in a few "Emoticons" for good measure ?

[mancub]

Not only do Thai drivers not know the rules of the road, many of them aren't aware that there are rules. The Blether is absolutely correct about the lack of enforcement, there are enough police to do much more than they are. There also seems to be a class issue, if I drive a new Benz and you are driving a fifteen year old Ford, you should get out of my way attitude.

If you're driving A Benz or a Beamer or even Accord or Fortuner etc and a guy in an old banger rams into you or cuts across your path you'll be expected to pay his damage and injury bills because you can afford it. If you're Thai and connected then this may not apply but for the farang it is your fault and you will be expected to pay for the poor Thai driver's damages anyway. This TOTALLY sucks and needs to be corrected but for the time being and forseeable furture (like forever) that's just the way it is!

I totally agree with you but I can guarantee you that a rich Thai driver will also be made to pay, possibly more so than the foreigner equivalent you have used as an example. Why? Because the poor THai would not allow a rich local to get away that easily nor would a rich Thai want to end up in jail when they can just pay their way out.

Really...? You can guarantee that ? I would hardly expect a rich Thai to assume any responsibility , especially when not at fault ! I would expect the poor Thai to be prostrate asking for forgiveness . Had the other party been a Foreigner , I would expect the poor Thai to be shouting for compensation , knowing that the law enforcers would back him up !

[lizardtongue]

I think this sums up the Thai's knowledge of driving laws, my friend asked his wife, "How old do you have to be to drive a motor scooter"? His wife thought for a moment and said in all seriousness, "When your mum say's you can"