Broken Stove

[oceanm5]

The resort where I am staying now has an outdoor communal cooktop, which I used the other day to cook some noodles. When I started the cooktop, I noticed that the behavior of the flame on the burner was a bit odd. It rose very high on one side, and did not show up at all on the other.

I didn't think too much about it though because I have yet to stay in a guest house here where things were not malfunctioning or broken. I just assumed the stove was old and not working very well. But it seemed like it would work well enough to cook my noodles. The cooktop has what it appears to be a tempered glass surface, and while the noodles were cooking the glass surface spontaneously shattered and broken glass flew all over the kitchen.

One thing that complicates the situation is that I do not speak Thai and the resort owner does not speak English. I communicated about what happened to a Thai woman staying here who speaks a bit of English. She spoke to the owner. Then later she told me that the owner said I need to pay for a replacement cooktop.

Although I told the woman acting as a go-between that the cooktop spontaneously shattered under normal use and that I thought there was a problem with the cooktop, she seemed intent on convincing me that I was responsible for the damage and there was no option but to pay the sum asked by the owner.

My basic feeling is that the situation is unfair, since I did not actually break or misuse the cooktop. ,Since it spontaneously shattered, I believe this indicates a problem with the cooktop, perhaps some kind of manufacturing defect. But because of the language barrier I am not sure how to discuss this with the owner. I also don't know if there is any point to discussion, since I am not very familiar with Thai law or custom in this kind of situation.

Any feedback from the forum about the best way to handle this situation would be appreciated. Thanks.

[meatboy]

wont be suprised that you will have to pay for a new one,me and the mrs are fed up with sub standad electrical goods that last no longer than 2years and most you cant get repaired or its not worth it.you wont win so either tell the owner your leaving or pay for a simular one.

[oceanm5]

thanks for your reply meatboy.

I think I'm going to leave now--but I'm pretty sure the owner expects me to pay for the new one whether I leave or not!

[meatboy]

thanks for your reply meatboy.

I think I'm going to leave now--but I'm pretty sure the owner expects me to pay for the new one whether I leave or not!

are there other farangs staying there if yes try and get them to chip in as well,the owner might not like it if you just up and go without telling him he can make it awkward for you,exspecially if he has your passport no.so be careful,if the hob is an old one tell him you will buy a second hand one.good luck.

[LennyW]

The cooktop did not "spontaneously" shatter, it shattered when you continued to use it knowing (by your own admission) that it was already faulty, sorry.

You should have pointed out the defect to the owner before you went ahead and used it and then use or not use depending on the owners response.

Personally i think using any gas appliance that is in the slightest way malfunctioning is just foolish and an accident waiting to happen, so pay up and consider yourself lucky, it could have been a whole lot worse.

[thequietman]

This is a gas cooker with a pull down glass splash back lid. the lid was down when you started to cook. didnt you think to lift it up. its a Gas Cooker ! its your fault. were you drunk that you didnt think to lift the lid.

Pay for it, you broke it. end of story.

[oceanm5]

Last two posters: neither of you have any idea what you are talking about; your posts are unhelpful and mere ridiculous exercises in inflammatory verbiage. Where in my post do I say I knew that the glass surface was faulty? I said only I noticed the flame on the burner was behaving a bit oddly--to get from that to the shattering of a piece of glass into a hundred pieces needs a lot of creativity. The cooktop has no glass splash back lid, and nor did I say it did, so I have no idea where you got that from (except your own drunken imagination, projecting itself onto my post). The cooktop's surface is made of tempered glass, and that is what shattered, not by any action of my own. Tempered glassware does spontaneously shatter, usually due to a manufacturing defect in the glass itself. Read up on it before you pontificate.

[MrRealDeal]

From their point of view ............ Why did everyone else use it and it not break ? Since thats the case why should you not pay for it ?

I understand you think it was faulty and maybe it was, but when you break something it's generally the right thing to do to replace it even if it's just bad luck that it finally broke when you used it.

Would you borrow your friends cooker , break it, or it break, whatever, and then tell him thankx for letting me use it but it was faulty so im not fixing it or replacing it ? Probabbly not

Chalk it up to bad luck and fix what broke when you were using it

Unfortunatly the reasoning that it was faulty so you shouldn't have to pay for it is not a thai concept , pretty much everything is somewhat faulty and breaks sooner than it should , that being the case from a Thai point of view since it broke when you used it and it's just normal equipment you should replace it.

I understand your point of view , but your in Thailand and my understanding or your point of view is not all that relevant to doing the right thing in Thailand. If you were in the usa it would be silly to pay for a resorts faulty cooker and they wouldnt even ask ....... you are not in the usa.

The moral of the story is ....... dont borrow or use things in Thailand you dont want to replace if they break ....... probabbly a good concept anyplace really.

PS.................. this is Thailand offer them half and they will probabbly be happy enough , offer them nothing and you look bad even if it wasn't your fault.

[Shot]

From their point of view ............ Why did everyone else use it and it not break ? Since thats the case why should you not pay for it ?

I understand you think it was faulty and maybe it was, but when you break something it's generally the right thing to do to replace it even if it's just bad luck that it finally broke when you used it.

Would you borrow your friends cooker , break it, or it break, whatever, and then tell him thankx for letting me use it but it was faulty so im not fixing it or replacing it ? Probabbly not

Chalk it up to bad luck and fix what broke when you were using it

Unfortunatly the reasoning that it was faulty so you shouldn't have to pay for it is not a thai concept , pretty much everything is somewhat faulty and breaks sooner than it should , that being the case from a Thai point of view since it broke when you used it and it's just normal equipment you should replace it.

I understand your point of view , but your in Thailand and my understanding or your point of view is not all that relevant to doing the right thing in Thailand. If you were in the usa it would be silly to pay for a resorts faulty cooker and they wouldnt even ask ....... you are not in the usa.

The moral of the story is ....... dont borrow or use things in Thailand you dont want to replace if they break ....... probabbly a good concept anyplace really.

PS.................. this is Thailand offer them half and they will probabbly be happy enough , offer them nothing and you look bad even if it wasn't your fault.

^^^what he said

[ThaidDown]

By your own admission you were using the stove when it was not functioning correctly

I noticed that the behavior of the flame on the burner was a bit odd. It rose very high on one side, and did not show up at all on the other.

Therefore I have to agree with LennyW that you should have informed the owner/management to cover yourself. As far as 'spontaneous' shattering well there was a naked flame and possibly unburnt gas from the side where the flame did not show, so possibly not spontaneous.

Maybe the stove top can be replaced, although imho I do not think tempered glass is a good idea for something that is used by everybody, stainless steel would be better, also as said by MrRealDeal offer half and see what is said.

[LennyW]

Last two posters: neither of you have any idea what you are talking about; your posts are unhelpful and mere ridiculous exercises in inflammatory verbiage. Where in my post do I say I knew that the glass surface was faulty? I said only I noticed the flame on the burner was behaving a bit oddly--to get from that to the shattering of a piece of glass into a hundred pieces needs a lot of creativity. The cooktop has no glass splash back lid, and nor did I say it did, so I have no idea where you got that from (except your own drunken imagination, projecting itself onto my post). The cooktop's surface is made of tempered glass, and that is what shattered, not by any action of my own. Tempered glassware does spontaneously shatter, usually due to a manufacturing defect in the glass itself. Read up on it before you pontificate.

Like i said, very irresponsible of you to use a gas appliance knowing it is faulty, or are you saying that the odd behaviour of the gas flame had no bearing on the breaking glass??, if not then why did you mention it?.

You broke it, you pay for it - simple, trying to blame a manufacturing defect on your incompetence/negligence is laughable.

Put the shoe on the other foot - you were the landlord and one of your tennants came to you and said that the stove was broken, would you turn round and say "no problem" "it is a manufacturing defect with this sort of appliance" ? yeah, thought not!

[oceanm5]

Thanks for your reply MrRealDeal. That is partly what I wanted to get information on, the way this sort of situation is handled in Thailand, so I understand it better.

I did try to offer a lower amount (a bit more than half) than she requested, but the owner was not open to that.

I get what you're saying about borrowing from a friend, but the situation with things breaking in guest houses in Thailand strikes me as different, because I believe you borrow something from a friend, and both of you have the belief that it is in good working order. With guest houses here, I believe the owners are aware that many things in the rooms or communal areas are in a state of disrepair but do not want to pay money to replace them. Then it breaks at some random time when some random person is using it and he also gets to foot the bill. It seems like a very random a way to assign responsibility, and one which has a little too much benefit for the proprietor.

Don't use it if you don't want to pay for it when it breaks is good advice, but I think it can only be practically applied in a limited way. You could say I didn't really need to use the cooktop, I could just have gone out to eat (although in this case, since I had been told when I came here that I could use the kitchen to cook, I had already gone out and bought groceries which would otherwise have gone to waste). But what about the fan, the shower, etc? We are paying to make use of many things which we really need at a guesthouse, any of which, in my experience, may be faulty in some way, and which may break when you are the guest using them. If there were some burden of maintenance on the owner it would somewhat offset the fact that there is a burden of responsibility of payment on the user, should the appliance happen to break.

[MrRealDeal]

I wouldn't call it random at all it's exactly what you said ...... a way the owner benefits and doesn't have to pay for replacements. I am not saying it's the right way I am saying it's the Thai way. And at better more reasonalble places they don't do that as often.

Once again you are in Thailand their are few laws to protect consumers , it's buyer beware. Your situation and opinion falls on deaf ears because owners like you are dealing with have the upper hand , the police will side with them , period.

The good news is not all Thai people are like that my advice is to move to a better place.

Here is a little tidbit I base my life on in Thailand told to me by a Thai bisnessman ....... In America if you put sawdust in the transmission and sell a car as working just fine ( the sawdust will let a bad transmission work for a while) you would be considered a thief and a liar ....... In Thailand you would be considered a smart bisnessman. EVERYTHING is buyer beware and since you didn't look over the car well enough it would be your fault. Keep that little story in mind and you will do fine in the future.

As far as the actual law goes it really is most often of little relevance to the actual issue at hand because most of the time someone has a deposit of some sort or as in the case with the cops asking for 100 bht for a nonsence offence ect ..... the cost to fight it and trouble it takes isn't really worth it because most of these things cost less to negoitate or just pay than to make an issue in court over.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the perception is that westerners are a bottomless pit of money so when some argument over money comes along and you might want to fight over the principle of the thing , like the work wasnt perfect enough , and withhold what might seem like a small amount of money to you, it is a GREAT deal more to them , and often times it escalates into them being highly offended that some rich guy is trying to withhold 10 days pay for some trivial complaint , from their perspective thats deserving of an asskicking and the cops wouldn't disagree most of the time.

So it's a combination of the fact that it's just how they do things , the fact they can get away with it , and it's the way they think it should be done anyhow , especially to westerners , and fighting the long well established Thai way is a losing proposition , it's kind of like going on a crusade to get people to stop littering or clean up the place ...... a waste of your time

Just be aware and ask a lot of questions next time ...... nothing wrong with asking the next place who pays when the fan breaks , if you don't it will be you most likely unless you are at a better place. This is really a place where clarity of what you might think should be obvious and not need to be asked often times should have been asked.

[Semper]

OP, you did it all wrong. You should have gone to the owner and informed him that the cooktop is malfunctioning and should be dealt with ASAP.

[CharlieH]

as said already, should have reported it, you continued to use it knowing of a potential problem therefore your responsibility. Sorry mate you got to pay up, may seem unfair in the balance given the units age etc and elsewhere that might be a reasonable argument, but in Thailand, just pay its alot easier and far less hassle. Bite the bullet, get it sorted and move on.

[arthurwait]

As others have said you should have reported it was faulty first. You never know he might have known it was already.

It depends on how much money he is asking for to whether it's worth the hassle of fighting it.

Some people in this country play on the reputation of bad Thailand until you stand up for yourself. You'll always be the stupid weak scared farang who will hand money over to them if you don't. Of course we don't know if this guy is doing this and you don't either really as you are only getting secondhand information.

Also don't believe the police will always side with them or that they will even bother calling the police, unless he has a good relationship with them they will do nothing and low ranked police officers who would be the only ones be made to bother (if anyone does) with this can't do anything to affect you.

You haven't committed a crime it was an accident ( a civil matter) from what you've told us.

Also this isn't the same as this happening between 2 friends. This is someone who he has paid an agreed price for a service/product not a favour from a friend.

[thequietman]

Last two posters: neither of you have any idea what you are talking about; your posts are unhelpful and mere ridiculous exercises in inflammatory verbiage. Where in my post do I say I knew that the glass surface was faulty? I said only I noticed the flame on the burner was behaving a bit oddly--to get from that to the shattering of a piece of glass into a hundred pieces needs a lot of creativity. The cooktop has no glass splash back lid, and nor did I say it did, so I have no idea where you got that from (except your own drunken imagination, projecting itself onto my post). The cooktop's surface is made of tempered glass, and that is what shattered, not by any action of my own. Tempered glassware does spontaneously shatter, usually due to a manufacturing defect in the glass itself. Read up on it before you pontificate.

Hi, sorry,

when I say your post there was a picture of a cooker. I assumed you put it there. dam_n google did it trying to get us to buy a cooker. it was a gas one with a pull down glass lid.

still yer gonna have to pay for some of it unfortuneately. TiT.

[Scully]

I would have demanded the money for my noodles.

What's a cooktop?