cloudhopper Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hi I just read that the CBO now estimates that 6 million US citizens will be fined in 2014 for not having health insurance. Does anyone know if expats will be among those hunted down and fined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamypoko Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 some useful info here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/566111-legitimate-expats-excluded-from-obamacare-health-insurance-mandate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanny Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 No, we won't be fined - or at least, most of us won't. If you meet either of the rules for the foreign earned exclusion (physical presence or bona fide resident), even if you don't have qualifying income, you are not covered by the insurance requirements of Obamacare. So, those of us who work here won't have a problem because we are already reporting out qualification. For people who are retired, though, even though the pensions, etc. are still taxed, they will have to show qualification for the exclusion to avoid the non-insured penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancid Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hunted down, fined and then interned ina FEMA camp with only pepper spray, tasers and waterboarding for company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfRider Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 . My understanding - from a fair amount of research - is that an Expat retiree living overseas will not be required to buy an Obama insurance policy if they qualify for the Foreign Earned Income exclusion - which means you are out of the US for 330 days in any given tax year. However, for tax purposes, you need to apply for the exclusion - it will not be granted unless you apply. Whether or not Obamacare includes the mandatory application process, I have not been able to determine. That may not have been decided yet. The problem I see with this is that Expat retirees will apparently lose the Medicare coverage that they have access to now when they return to the US for medical care in the event of a serious, expensive, medical issue. Possibly, this aspect has also not yet been decided, I doubt that Expats are very far up in the list of modifications that need to be made to Obamacare. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'd vote for Romney just in case. Information found here on Thaivisa about IRS tax rules is often not reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'd vote for Romney just in case. Information found here on Thaivisa about IRS tax rules is often not reliable. A lost cause it appears now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Voting for anyone is a lost cause. Thanks for the info guys; since I don't file a tax return anymore it appears I'll be off that radar screen until I decide to start SS and that's at least 5 years away...or maybe never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Voting for anyone is a lost cause. Thanks for the info guys; since I don't file a tax return anymore it appears I'll be off that radar screen until I decide to start SS and that's at least 5 years away...or maybe never. Yes what you say about voting, The choice is as usual, which one is the lesser of two controlled by the same evils, not which candidate is actually good for America. Regarding radar same here & that is the way I like it. I guess if they want to they can eventually suck their fee's out of any future SS payments you or I have coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrysteve Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 YES it is very possible. The health care mandate is law now. Those old enough to be on medicare; or those old enough to file for medicare should perhaps do so. I am not sure however if being on medicare exempts you from paying for Health care based on Obamacare. It would seem logical that if you are on medicare. you might be exempt from doing so. It is worth checking out. If your not retired, and not on medicare etc, it probably would be wise to file tax returns if you haven't. The IRS makes the Nazis look like Chior Boys; that you can be sure of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandBert Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 When the first thing Obama did when he passed the law was hire thousands of tax inspectors I had an idea it had very little to do with health and all to do with revenue raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfRider Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 . "if they want to they can eventually suck their fee's out of any future SS payments" They can do that now if you owe back taxes or some other govt. debt (it happened to me) - However, they can only take 15% of each SS payment until the debt is satisfied. For people who receive dividend or interest income, they can take 28% of those payments. If they want to get really mean, they can confiscate any of your bank accounts (also happened to me) Also, the number of new IRS agents that are being hired to enforce Obamacare is 16,500. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenHeidbriderSr Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'd vote for Romney just in case. Information found here on Thaivisa about IRS tax rules is often not reliable. I gotta say i already sent in my Obama Vote. The last thing America needs is a Tax Cheat and apparent felon. IF Romney were to get elected he would most certainly be IMPEACHED and IMO Nixon and Clinton almost were way too many already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'd vote for Romney just in case. Information found here on Thaivisa about IRS tax rules is often not reliable. I gotta say i already sent in my Obama Vote. The last thing America needs is a Tax Cheat and apparent felon. IF Romney were to get elected he would most certainly be IMPEACHED and IMO Nixon and Clinton almost were way too many already. Neither Nixon or Clinton were successfully impeached. Nixon would most likely have been if he hadn't resigned and the Clinton motion failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'd vote for Romney just in case. Information found here on Thaivisa about IRS tax rules is often not reliable. I gotta say i already sent in my Obama Vote. The last thing America needs is a Tax Cheat and apparent felon. IF Romney were to get elected he would most certainly be IMPEACHED and IMO Nixon and Clinton almost were way too many already. Funny, but you don't sound like a tax attorney. Neither am I but I am a CPA. Romney has paid exactly what was required under current law, sometimes more. The IRS has seen his tax returns and haven't questioned any of it. Of course, if they audit his returns they may rule against him but since his position is a defensible one, he'll owe taxes (plus interest and possibly penalties) but he hasn't committed a crime. Part of the problem is the law. I agree that the law that allows Romney to treat the majority of his income as carried interest and therefore pay a lower tax rate is unfair. But that tax treatment has been on the books for many years and Obama has made little efort to have it changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Neither Nixon or Clinton were successfully impeached. Nixon would most likely have been if he hadn't resigned and the Clinton motion failed. Your attempt to rewrite history also failed. Clinton was impeached but not convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'd vote for Romney just in case. Information found here on Thaivisa about IRS tax rules is often not reliable. And Romney is reliable <deleted>?!! Before you cast your vote try to find out which Romney you are actually voting for - he seems to like to be a different person according to who he thinks is listening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptHaddock Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The problem I see with this is that Expat retirees will apparently lose the Medicare coverage that they have access to now when they return to the US for medical care in the event of a serious, expensive, medical issue. Possibly, this aspect has also not yet been decided, I doubt that Expats are very far up in the list of modifications that need to be made to Obamacare. . What is your basis for this opinion? Medicare and Obamacare are separate programs. I haven't seen anything to suggest that expats will be denied access to Medicare. It would be unreasonable to do so since we have been paying for it over the years of our working life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfRider Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 . "What is your basis for this opinion?... I haven't seen anything to suggest that expats will be denied access to Medicare" It's just an opinion that is based on a lot of research. I have not seen anything definitive that applies to Expats with respect to medical coverage after Obamacare is fully implemented. What is known is that $716 Billion is being taken out of Medicare to kick-start Obamacare - it seems that loss will weaken Medicare considerably. Eventually, Obamacare will replace Medicare. All the data that I've been able to find that relates to Expats was written in early 2010 - shortly after the legislation was passed. When it was first passed, nobody knew what was in it - none of the 535 congress and senate members had even read the bill. It was months before independent, non-partisan researchers began to discover what was actually in it. Since the Expat articles were written before much was known about the legislation, I don't put much stock in their accuracy. In addition, many modifications have been made to the legislation since then. The possibility of Expats not being covered (even under Medicare) is based on simple logic. Citizens living in the US are required to buy an Obama policy whether they want to or not. The alternative is to pay the penalty tax. Since it appears that Expats who qualify for the Foreign Earned Income exclusion will be exempt from both buying a policy or paying the penalty, that means that they will be treated the same as a state-side citizen who pays the penalty -- which means that they will have no medical insurance unless they buy it privately. The only way to guarantee that an Expat who qualifies for Medicare will actually be able to access it, is to find specific information that states that. I have not been able to find anything definitive that I consider credible. Given that there are very few Expats compared to all US citizens, I doubt there are any priorities to define how Expats will be treated. It all hinges on Medicare. If you have any proof that it will remain as is and cover Expats that qualify - please post it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanny Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) . It all hinges on Medicare. If you have any proof that it will remain as is and cover Expats that qualify - please post it. . I disaree with this statement! Unless there is specific legilation or regulation that excludes expats, Medicare should be considered to remain unchanged. For many of us, it is an academic question, anyway. Medical care in Thailand for nearly anything that could develop is, at the least, adequate. I am happy with the care and attention I have received from at least four hospitals here in Bangkok and no longer even think of going back to the US for ANY medical reasons. Since we are not covered by Medicare outside the US - and I don't think that will change - we need to look to medical services here. This is not the US. Doctor fees and hospital charges are a fraction of those charged in the US. If you retire here, I believe that you don't need to worry about Obamacare! Edited September 22, 2012 by lanny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 It is mathematically intractable for the medicare (or even the private health insurance) system to continue in its present form, and I think I would much rather be here in LOS paying cash than wading through what little will be left of that system. I was in that racket for 20 years and the medical-pharma-insurance-government complex absolutely owns and controls it, and will suck every dime out before it (inevitably) collapses. No one really knows what form this law will actually take, if any, by 2014, and even the esteemed "pass it so we can know what's in it" parliamentary whore Nancy Pelosi admitted as much. Forced participation is a cardinal sign of impending collapse IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Neither Nixon or Clinton were successfully impeached. Nixon would most likely have been if he hadn't resigned and the Clinton motion failed. Your attempt to rewrite history also failed. Clinton was impeached but not convicted. 'er no, that's why I said he wasn't successfully impeached ie not convicted. But we do know that Nixon would have been successfully convicted if he had not resigned. Clinton completed both terms of office. Nixon did not. So a Republican President out in front on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Yes Clinton was most fortunate to be merely disbarred in the end. Not that he would be needing it once the Marc Rich payments disguised as speaking fees began to roll in. Nixon's biggest crime against humanity (among many IMO) was unilaterally closing the gold window in 71 enabling massive debt expansion. Although he'll probably be revered by Americans in the future for saving the national stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Yes Clinton was most fortunate to be merely disbarred in the end. Not that he would be needing it once the Marc Rich payments disguised as speaking fees began to roll in. Nixon's biggest crime against humanity (among many IMO) was unilaterally closing the gold window in 71 enabling massive debt expansion. Although he'll probably be revered by Americans in the future for saving the national stack. Little choice at the time. And zero chance of going back. Unless you are an end-of-the-worldist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 And zero chance of going back. I have no idea but tend to agree with you since I see a deflationary outcome as the most likely. Even the Fed and the 1% know that a hyperinflationary currency crisis is game over for everyone and would inevitably have a deflationary epilog anyway if it did occur.. Say what's your personal theory then about why the the US was so desperate to save its gold stack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptHaddock Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 . "What is your basis for this opinion?... I haven't seen anything to suggest that expats will be denied access to Medicare" It's just an opinion that is based on a lot of research. I have not seen anything definitive that applies to Expats with respect to medical coverage after Obamacare is fully implemented. What is known is that $716 Billion is being taken out of Medicare to kick-start Obamacare - it seems that loss will weaken Medicare considerably. Eventually, Obamacare will replace Medicare. This and everything else in your post is complete and utter nonsense. You are too uninformed to be worth discussing this with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfukata Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 . It all hinges on Medicare. If you have any proof that it will remain as is and cover Expats that qualify - please post it. . I disaree with this statement! Unless there is specific legilation or regulation that excludes expats, Medicare should be considered to remain unchanged. For many of us, it is an academic question, anyway. Medical care in Thailand for nearly anything that could develop is, at the least, adequate. I am happy with the care and attention I have received from at least four hospitals here in Bangkok and no longer even think of going back to the US for ANY medical reasons. Since we are not covered by Medicare outside the US - and I don't think that will change - we need to look to medical services here. This is not the US. Doctor fees and hospital charges are a fraction of those charged in the US. If you retire here, I believe that you don't need to worry about Obamacare! I am semi-retired here but there may be some of US citizens that may have gotten medical benefits covered by their company of employment when you retired like I did. I will be covered automatically into Medicare at age 65 or 66 in the US, but not here. I think as a one poster mentioned, the US govt. will automatically deduct the minimum premium from your Social security pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) .I am semi-retired here but there may be some of US citizens that may have gotten medical benefits covered by their company of employment when you retired like I did. I will be covered automatically into Medicare at age 65 or 66 in the US, but not here. I think as a one poster mentioned, the US govt. will automatically deduct the minimum premium from your Social security pension. No, you will not be automatically coverd into Medicare when you reach 65 (not 66). You must apply for it, three months prior to your 65th birthday. If there is any chance that you will return to the US then you had better apply since there is a large penalty if you try and apply later on. As to your second statement, about automatically deduction from Social Security, this is also incorrect. You "should" purchase a Medicare supplement which will cover your out of pocket expenses such as co-pays and non covered treatments but this is something that you must initiate, Social Security will not do it for you Edited September 22, 2012 by Langsuan Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfRider Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 . "This and everything else in your post is complete and utter nonsense" You have your opinion and I have mine ... let's keep it that way ... end of story. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) I have no idea what may be factual in the linked essay but it might be of interest - http://www.zerohedge...kers-and-payers edit - I notice that this article mentions 2016 and IIRC the other one said 2014. Anyone know when? Edited September 23, 2012 by cloudhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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