Building A Small Village Shop - Cost

[Richie1971]

Hi,

The in-laws are getting on a bit and can no longer toil in the fields as much as they used to so I am thinking about getting a small shop constructed for them.

What I'd like to know is a rough costing.

It will be a small village shop, selling the usual type of stuff and is going to be built under their house. (House above on stilts, typical village house)

Does anyone have any idea how much this type of thing will cost in total? Building, electrics, finishing, metal shutter, freezer, fridge etc

It's in the East Of Ubon Ratchatani province if this makes any difference

Of course there's always someone in the village or surrounding area who can do it for xxxxx baht but would like some advice from guys who may have done it before.

Any advice/tips greatly appreciated

Thanks

[SantiSuk]

I don't know the answer to your specific question on set-up costs but I would comment that the USP of a falang-funded shop would be the ability to fund higher value stock items (maybe only slightly higher) that villagers want but need to travel to the local town to get.

Most village shops stock very low value items to keep the inventory low cost for obvious reasons. So what happens is that choice is very limited and the Mom & Pop shops all look the same and others open up on a me-too basis to make them all unprofitable. Go to the nearest Tesco and watch what the locals are filling their pick-ups with. It won't be sweets, pop (sodas), uncased beers and crisps*, since they can get these in real time in the village already.

I see many people wanting to pay for a 711 franchise and I always wonder why they would not prefer to have the fun of setting up something using their own intuition/research/experimentation.

*Not entirely true - they will buy bulk and promotions

Edited September 25, 2012 by SantiSuk

[Richie1971]

Thanks for that Santisuk - I don't intend to 'Fund it' but you have given me food for thought - Perhaps fans, small selection of clothes etc -

Thanks

[billd766]

My wife used to have a small shop and noodle stall/restaurant out here in the boonies that did quite well for a few years but she eventaully closed it due to the lack of customers with actual money.

Towards the end it was can I have....... and I will pay you on payday and a few would pay and some wouldn't. In the end she told customers straight out that she wasn't a bank or a money lender and that if they wanted goods cash is the best way to get them.

She closed the shop for a while then another couple came along and rented it and though we told them they did the same thing and went bust owing money around.

The OP's problem is that people will know that the "farang" is backing the shop and will try to do the same as happened to my wife.

Although over the time she ran the shop she made an overall profit the last few months were a poor return.

[Richie1971]

Thanks Billd, good advice

Cheers

[swissie]

I don't know the answer to your specific question on set-up costs but I would comment that the USP of a falang-funded shop would be the ability to fund higher value stock items (maybe only slightly higher) that villagers want but need to travel to the local town to get.

Most village shops stock very low value items to keep the inventory low cost for obvious reasons. So what happens is that choice is very limited and the Mom & Pop shops all look the same and others open up on a me-too basis to make them all unprofitable. Go to the nearest Tesco and watch what the locals are filling their pick-ups with. It won't be sweets, pop (sodas), uncased beers and crisps*, since they can get these in real time in the village already.

I see many people wanting to pay for a 711 franchise and I always wonder why they would not prefer to have the fun of setting up something using their own intuition/research/experimentation.

*Not entirely true - they will buy bulk and promotions

Excellent post. I think the key-sentence is.........."me too basis, that makes them all unprofitable". This is almost a tragedy in rural Thailand. One mom and pop opens and has a few customers a day and within 1 month you have 3 more in the same aerea, often within walking distance or each other.

It seems to me that something like "supply and demand", is not really beeing understood.

Other cases in point: The occupancy rate of a hotel goes down. The remedy: Increase prices up to the point where the hotel has no more guests at all.

Or: A certain crop fetches a high price. Guess what ? Half of the farmers will plant this crop. Come harverst time, the price of the crop is in the cellar.

Must admit, there are certain things I don' understand as far as Thailand is concerned. On the other hand, there seem to be a few basic things that Thais don't understand as well (yet).

Cheers.

[ubonrthai]

Do they own the farmland they work in? If not, it doesn't take much land to provide rice for the entire year and when they can no longer work they can rent it out for cash or 50% of the yield or something like that. Just another possible option.

The most profitable business in my in-laws village are the soul-less money lenders who take advantage of 90% of the village.

Edited September 26, 2012 by ubonrthai

[IsaanAussie]

We have a shop in front of the house and sell the normal beer, whiskey and cigarettes etc.. Effectively these products return 20% profit. We do not sell the prepackaging food stuff but do on ocassions make pancakes and hamburgers on the weekends. We sell what we can make ourselves and doesnt just "grow on trees". There are other shops and some mimic what we sell, but that is OK because apart from the stuff listed first, the customer base for us are the kids and their tastes change with the wind. Two issues, they always can get 5 or 10 baht from someone, and they must have anything new or interesting.

My logic was to be as different as possible and to use things that Thais will not invest in, ice crusher, display fridge, BBQ, Waffle maker, toaster, hot water urn and deep frier. The issue you will have OP, is getting your inlaws to understand the need to be different from the rest to maintain interest and how to use the gear. To make it work means that four letter word, "work" and thought. Ask yourself if they will do that, or even want to try.

On the investment side our shop is set up under the verandah of the house and is a multi functional area so I can only approportion part of the total investment in renovations. I suppose 70,000 baht would about cover it to date.

Do we make money? Well we make a margin which helps pay my beer bills from a very small number of customers.

[Orac]

It would depend to some degree on the relative wealth of the village - with some villages the disposable income to spend in such shops is so small as to make a shop unviable. The suggestion of checking out what the villagers are buying in Tesco is only valid if the actually go there. As an example, in my wifes village a trip to Tesco would be a rarity as virtually everything they consume is either from the local market or from mobile vans for veg and occasionally meat. They built a new Tesco last year about 20 minutes away but hardly anyone goes there from what I have seen. The small 'shops' in the village are just tables set up in the space under the house rather than purpose built affairs.

One thought my wife did have was a small 'shop' selling wellington boots since there seemed to be a demand as everyone here is a farmer - I talked her out of the idea because with most of the people around being some sort of relation it would probably mean everything would be given on credit, gifted or at cost.

[Semper]

Thanks for that Santisuk - I don't intend to 'Fund it' but you have given me food for thought - Perhaps fans, small selection of clothes etc -

Thanks

Don't forget beer and alcohol.

[Pormax]

Looked into the same idea for my wife who wanted something to do. But as far as I could see the outlay, though in farang terms not that big, it would take a very long time (if ever) to get back the amount invested and the profit per month would be small. As has been said in other posts in a village there tends to be many family members and very good friends who would either expect things free or 'I'll pay later'. I also agree that these village stores seem to mushroom. I have been living in this village, only about 100 houses, and at first only one shop, Now there are 3 and possibly a 4th opening soon. I really don't think with the hassle, amount of work and little profit (if any) in the long term makes it a viable proposition.

My advice is tread with caution, do a lot of groundwork, don't rush into anything.

[jamescollister]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

[sirchai]

Better spend the money for beer, wine and chicks.---------

[uptheos]

Thai's are reluctant to support a small at home enterprise, if a farang lives with the owner.

[CTO]

Most people buy in bulk at a local wholesaler, one of the big rip offs is a "Fridge". they never think through the cost of a MUST HAVE A FRIDGE and the return of kleeping things cold.

My in-laws use ice boxes, ice truck comes through every second day, they buy ice, keep things cold.

MUCH cheaper,

She has a noodle shop, very profitable, more so than having to re-sell things from a wholesaler, but you have to be a good cook to make it work and have no competition around.

Some wholesalers deliver. That works too, otherwise sometimes a trip to Macro you see people stocking up for the small village shops too.

Teaching people the basics of business is a good idea, sometimes they are keen, my in-laws where, they just need a few 1000's baht to get going and are totally self sufficient, so I had no problems helping them get going, and give a few tips on how to price things, and she is very popular in the village.

Why not? Kee Neo Farang!

[MrRed]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

way to much generalization there jim

[MrRed]

Thai's are reluctant to support a small at home enterprise, if a farang lives with the owner.

Not true,it works the other way also.

[MrRed]

Most people buy in bulk at a local wholesaler, one of the big rip offs is a "Fridge". they never think through the cost of a MUST HAVE A FRIDGE and the return of kleeping things cold.

My in-laws use ice boxes, ice truck comes through every second day, they buy ice, keep things cold.

MUCH cheaper,

She has a noodle shop, very profitable, more so than having to re-sell things from a wholesaler, but you have to be a good cook to make it work and have no competition around.

Some wholesalers deliver. That works too, otherwise sometimes a trip to Macro you see people stocking up for the small village shops too.

Teaching people the basics of business is a good idea, sometimes they are keen, my in-laws where, they just need a few 1000's baht to get going and are totally self sufficient, so I had no problems helping them get going, and give a few tips on how to price things, and she is very popular in the village.

Why not? Kee Neo Farang!

My fridges where free one from Pepsi and 1 from coca cola also the trick is to use your shop as the main source for all the other little shops to buy from ....basically overpower them and give a wide variety of goods for the locals and children......it is also good as you say to have food on the go either rice or noodles or both.

Meat is a good seller and vegetables from the garden in the AM.

Basically a village shop here is an investment for years and an income even if it is small....nobody opens a shop if you are a farang and think you are going to get rich here,it is enjoyable at times but also hard work and the avenue to speak Thai is open wide for you.

If you can earn anything over 20.000 baht a month you are doing very well.

[mike123ca]

Here in Ubon, it looks to me like every 4 th house has some sort of shop. The truth be told most of these shops are selling exactly the same thing as the other shops.

I think the big problem is the lack of a proper old age pension system here in Thailand. Too many people opening shops to keep busy and to support them

because they have difficulty due to their old age. Thais need to earn a larger salary so they can invest the extra money for their retirement.

[jamescollister]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

way to much generalization there jim

Not really, if the in laws had wanted a house shop they stick out a table and sell things, no real investment required and I have yet to hear of a farang sending money to set something up and it worked.

If the in laws were go getters and had a real interest in doing a business, they would already have a business.

Happy to be corrected by others who have sent money to set up small businesses and they worked, but seen the tractor deals, farang buys tractor, in laws will live happy ever after on the income. 6 months later tractor is rusting in a field or has been sold. etc etc.

Think if you don't work for it yourself, it's easy come easy go. Jim

[MrRed]

It all depends if you are there being involved(living on the premises)and if the family are really interested of course....going buying you will know very quickly if your Mrs and the family has good intentions,this is hard work and a commitment like some mornings waking at 4am to go buying or in the evening going to places like Makro after you close the shop!

I would advise anybody to trial it first then see what input and output (money taken for the family)is to see if you enjoy working this lifestyle.

[MrRed]

Also even in the villages there is a difference between a mama papa pension shop(as mentioned above) and a real shop that sells everything and is fully stocked regularly.....not just selling knum,beer and whiskey an cigs.

Also as mentioned earlier you do have to have a book and be very clear on payment,we give one week and strictly tell anybody that they have to pay or no more credit.

Your Mrs has to be a strong personality in the local community for this to work.

[MrRed]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

way to much generalization there jim

Not really, if the in laws had wanted a house shop they stick out a table and sell things, no real investment required and I have yet to hear of a farang sending money to set something up and it worked.

If the in laws were go getters and had a real interest in doing a business, they would already have a business.

Happy to be corrected by others who have sent money to set up small businesses and they worked, but seen the tractor deals, farang buys tractor, in laws will live happy ever after on the income. 6 months later tractor is rusting in a field or has been sold. etc etc.

Think if you don't work for it yourself, it's easy come easy go. Jim

With all respect Jim setting a stall up outside your home to me is not a shop and nothing like having a business,as you say it is common sense really if you had a business anywhere in the world and just supported it it by sending money ....it would not last long would it ,anybody who does this like you say becomes another story of loss and woe but that is more common if they are playing at it and not seriously involved.

[DILLIGAD]

I think Jims comments are 'spot on' having experienced the problems he has detailed personally (unfortunetly).

[jamescollister]

It all depends if you are there being involved(living on the premises)and if the family are really interested of course....going buying you will know very quickly if your Mrs and the family has good intentions,this is hard work and a commitment like some mornings waking at 4am to go buying or in the evening going to places like Makro after you close the shop!

I would advise anybody to trial it first then see what input and output (money taken for the family)is to see if you enjoy working this lifestyle.

You are talking 2 totally different enterprises, one with a farang watching over, ergo a farang run shop and the other sending money for Ma and Pa to set up a shop, they have no experience and have never tried before. Not doubt rice farmers who were happy to put in the hard work for the rice season, then swing in a hammock for the rest of the year. They are not going to suddenly become work alcoholics and develop booking skills overnight.

As said before happy to be corrected, I would love to hear a story where it worked, but in my 10 years, never seen a farang bought business run without a farang presence. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Edited September 26, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[stevo2]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Oh dear. What a sad outlook on things.

I set up a small business for my wife. Those of you who live in Buriram will probably know me and the company.

I do have some input, usually keeping the website up to date, checking orders and doing some deliveries( my wife cannot drive a car yet). I have not been involved financially for over 2 and a half years.

I am proud to say that the company is running as strong as ever after just over 3 years in business.

Edited September 26, 2012 by stevo2

[TommoPhysicist]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Oh dear. What a sad outlook on things.

I set up a small business for my wife. Those of you who live in Buriram will probably know me and the company.

I do have some input, usually keeping the website up to date, checking orders and doing some deliveries( my wife cannot drive a car yet). I have not been involved financially for over 2 and a half years.

I am proud to say that the company is running as strong as ever after just over 3 years in business.

As has previously been said, white man overseeing wife Vs absentee funding elderly uneducated farmers are two completely different games.

[SantiSuk]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

way to much generalization there jim

Not really, if the in laws had wanted a house shop they stick out a table and sell things, no real investment required and I have yet to hear of a farang sending money to set something up and it worked.

If the in laws were go getters and had a real interest in doing a business, they would already have a business.

Happy to be corrected by others who have sent money to set up small businesses and they worked, but seen the tractor deals, farang buys tractor, in laws will live happy ever after on the income. 6 months later tractor is rusting in a field or has been sold. etc etc.

Think if you don't work for it yourself, it's easy come easy go. Jim

But in the OPs original post Jim we learn that his GFs parents are farmers, but are getting too old for the fields. They prefer farming to running a shop, presumably, but now they need to find something else to fill their time.

If the alternative were just giving them some money to sit on their bums I would prefer to give them something to do. The points about giving stuff away free is a good point though. I would not want to be funding free-loaders in the village. My village is different and is a bit more affluent than the ones stuck way out in the sticks, so a well-thought out shop could work well (with passing trade on the main road too). My in-laws make a subsistence living from both farming and selling bagged curries in the local markets in the evening (mother and sisters are good Issaan cooks). They are no fools - they give nothing away for free except maybe the odd bit of unsold food.

Just goes to show that you cant generalise and each situation needs to be thought through carefullyon its own merits with lots of questioning and observation first. I`m sure that the likes of Tommo thinks anyone who would fund the ILs is a mug. Fair enough - I would never advocate putting yourself into dire straits just because of any pressure that might come form the family. Myself, I think the Western culture that spreads families to the four winds and provides little financial or emotional support from family members upwards to the getting-poorer-oldies is more repulsive than the culture that sees daughters families providing upwards support.

Edited September 26, 2012 by SantiSuk

[jamescollister]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Oh dear. What a sad outlook on things.

I set up a small business for my wife. Those of you who live in Buriram will probably know me and the company.

I do have some input, usually keeping the website up to date, checking orders and doing some deliveries( my wife cannot drive a car yet). I have not been involved financially for over 2 and a half years.

I am proud to say that the company is running as strong as ever after just over 3 years in business.

Again, not the OPs question, he is asking about sending money to his in laws to open a shop, not about opening a shop for his wife and him being there.

If he sends money he will have no control over how it is spent, or if they even bother to build in the first place.

Seen guys send money to have houses for retirement build, most never goes to the house. One German was sending money for 3 years, came to look at his new home and found 6 concrete poles.

Never heard of anyone getting what they think they are paying for. Come on there must be someone who has sent money to family and the money was actually spent on what it was meant for. Jim