It's Not What You Eat It Is The Way You Eat.

[Tolley]

Further on long term impacts of ketosis on diet taken from WebMD

Robert H. Eckel, MD, director of the general clinical research center at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver, agrees. He tells WebMD, "Our worries over the Atkins diet go way past the question of whether it is effective for losing weight or even for keeping weight off. We worry that the diet promotes heart disease. ... We have concerns over whether this is a healthy diet for preventing heart disease, stroke, and cancer. There is also potential loss of bone, and the potential for people with liver and kidney problems to have trouble with the high amounts of protein in these diets."

The American Dietetic Association also has concerns about the Atkins diet. Gail Frank, PhD, former spokeswoman for the organization and professor of nutrition at California State University in Long Beach, says, "The body needs a minimum of carbohydrates for efficient and healthy functioning -- about 150 grams daily." Below that, normal metabolic activity is disrupted.

"The brain needs glucose to function efficiently, and it takes a long time to break down fat and protein to get to the brain," says Frank. Carbohydrates, especially in the form of vegetables, grains, and fruits, are more efficiently converted to glucose. And this more efficient use of glucose has developed over a long period of time, according to Frank. "Fruits and berries are much more indicative of early man's eating pattern than eating only protein, and we haven't changed all that much physiologically."

[AllanB]

I ws always amazed t how fast my former wife ate. Her twin brothers were even faster than her. On those occasions when we ate with them in a restaurant they were always finishing their main course as I was finishing my salad. i wondered how they could enjoy their meal.

This is another interesting point, we are not dogs, wolfing down our food, before another dog gets there, we should savour our food. Eating fast food fast satisfies only the basic instinct, of what should be an intelligent being.

Without boring you too much,... For a long time I was married to a veterinary surgeon, who had no other skills at all, so faced with a lifetime of eating pre-packed crap, I learned to cook and then had to do the shopping too. Although my early efforts were quite basic, I could mediately taste the difference, a fresher taste, less stodge, over-flavouring, etc, so I carried on experimenting and soon found something quite important.

I used to buy cheap steak and no matter how I tried it always tasted like the bottom of a shoe, (I know slow cooker, pressure cooker would have fixed it) so instead of buying 1kg of the cheap stuff for my money, I bought 1/2kg of the best cut for the same money and I never bought cheap steak again. (I resist buying "bargains" altogether, unless I was going to buy them anyway, and supersizes too, if I buy I will eat.)

I then applied this rule to a number of ingredients, like eggs, chicken, even bread and all of a sudden, my cooking improved dramatically and instead of being a dog, I and my family began to really savour our food, enjoying every mouthful and probably chewing more. So I eat slowly for a different reason and eat less because I eat better.

I once heard someone say, to fat people every calorie of food is important, so why waste it eating carp?

My new wife and I both cook and we only buy fresh food and almost nothing is processed, not even sugar.

I can see you guys like to analyse every minutia of the digestive process, but I don't think that helps, because the body is so very complicated with numerous processes going on, many of which interact with others. plus the effects of psychology in the mix. Many of the experiments you cite are carried out in isolation, so are not always accurate and this explains the variation in results. Most researchers are either looking to justify their fee, prove what their employers wish to sell, or are simply seeking notoriety.

At no point have I said that a particular weight loss programme could never work, but if you start with the premiss of "enjoyment", with a certain, but simple discipline, you have a better chance of succeeding. The state of happiness has many positive effects on the body and depression many negative ones. If you enjoy something, you will become proficient and vice versa, which will ultimately lead to success.

Edited October 15, 2012 by AllanB

[Tolley]

I have never been on a diet and dont have a weight problem.

That's lucky. All metabolisms are different.

But then why would you choose brown rice over white? Whole wheat bread over white? Could that be dieting or just "tastes better?"

I believe in a lifestyle approach to food.

Most fat people do too. My obese friend who died early considered Reese's Peanut Butter cups part of her lifestyle.

Oats and wholegrain foods have other benefits like the vitamins and minerals they add to your diet and also the benefit to the colon.

The sort of diet you are proposing is too limiting for most people and I also question eating so much protein without any roughage. I think it could lead to colon and bowel issues.

Oats and wholegrain foods don't contain anything you can't get from veggies.

And you don't really understand the Atkins diet or its variants at all and so are just spouting nonsense. It's not actually a high protein diet, does include plenty of fiber in low-glycemic veggies, and has never led to colon/bowel issues of significance.

It's not what you "believe" or 'think"--emotional, religious, or spiritual matters. Glad you got out your "beliefs" and "thoughts" for your own satisfaction, but we aren't going to go by those. We're going by what the science says.

This is my understanding of the Atkins diet taken from WebMD website. It seems that on the maintenance plan you can eat wholegrains but in the initial phase it is a high protein diet? It seem you have a different take?

For most people, the carb consumption must be no more than 40 grams a day for this biochemical mechanism to occur. Although exercise isn't stressed, the Atkins theory holds that some people will need to add physical activity for ketosis to kick in. People are urged to supplement with vitamins, since they won't be getting them from sources such as vegetables and fruits.

The plan allows you to eat foods that many dieters have only dreamed about. The diet is said to work even if other diets have left you feeling depressed and deprived. The Atkins diet at a glance:

• Sets few limits on the amount of food you eat but instead severely restricts the kinds of food allowed on your plate: no refined sugar, milk, white rice, or white flour
  
• Allows you to eat foods traditionally regarded as "rich": meat, eggs, cheese, and more
  
• Claims to reduce your appetite in the process
  

On the Atkins diet, you're eating almost pure protein and fat. You can consume red meat, fish (including shellfish), fowl, and regular cheese (not "diet" cheese, cheese spreads, or whey cheeses). You can cook with butter, have mayo with your tuna, and put olive oil on your salads.

On the other hand, carbs are restricted (about 20 grams of net carbs per day, meaning total carbs minus fiber) in the first two weeks, which translates to three cups of loosely packed salad or two cups of salad with two-thirds cup of certain cooked vegetables each day.

There are no exceptions to these rules during the first two weeks because low-carb consumption (no fruits and only a few leafy green vegetables) is supposed to jump-start the weight-loss biochemical activity of the diet. You're not counting calories (in fact, you may be eating more calories than you were before).

Later, the carb allowance is increased in the form of fiber-rich foods, but you do not return to eating refined sugar (by the teaspoonful or in desserts), milk, white rice, white bread, white potatoes or pasta made with the dreaded white flour. Those remain on a lifelong list of forbidden pleasures.

The diet does allow for adding fruits, vegetables, and whole-grain foods after the two-week induction period.

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[AllanB]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

[JSixpack]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

If you're gonna kill yourself, why do it by slipping and falling on ice? Seems so unexciting by comparison to balcony jumping.

[robblok]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

If you're gonna kill yourself, why do it by slipping and falling on ice? Seems so unexciting by comparison to balcony jumping.

Allan is a bit like a jehova's witness his style is the only style. I watched documentaries about all those diets read stuff about it and then i made my own calls. I am still trying new things, i might even go into ketose once to try. I have no qualms trying things if there is a basis for it.

[JSixpack]

This is my understanding of the Atkins diet taken from WebMD website. It seems that on the maintenance plan you can eat wholegrains but in the initial phase it is a high protein diet? It seem you have a different take?

For most people, the carb consumption must be no more than 40 grams a day for this biochemical mechanism to occur. Although exercise isn't stressed, the Atkins theory holds that some people will need to add physical activity for ketosis to kick in. People are urged to supplement with vitamins, since they won't be getting them from sources such as vegetables and fruits.

The plan allows you to eat foods that many dieters have only dreamed about. The diet is said to work even if other diets have left you feeling depressed and deprived. The Atkins diet at a glance:

• Sets few limits on the amount of food you eat but instead severely restricts the kinds of food allowed on your plate: no refined sugar, milk, white rice, or white flour
  
• Allows you to eat foods traditionally regarded as "rich": meat, eggs, cheese, and more
  
• Claims to reduce your appetite in the process
  

On the Atkins diet, you're eating almost pure protein and fat. You can consume red meat, fish (including shellfish), fowl, and regular cheese (not "diet" cheese, cheese spreads, or whey cheeses). You can cook with butter, have mayo with your tuna, and put olive oil on your salads.

On the other hand, carbs are restricted (about 20 grams of net carbs per day, meaning total carbs minus fiber) in the first two weeks, which translates to three cups of loosely packed salad or two cups of salad with two-thirds cup of certain cooked vegetables each day.

There are no exceptions to these rules during the first two weeks because low-carb consumption (no fruits and only a few leafy green vegetables) is supposed to jump-start the weight-loss biochemical activity of the diet. You're not counting calories (in fact, you may be eating more calories than you were before).

Later, the carb allowance is increased in the form of fiber-rich foods, but you do not return to eating refined sugar (by the teaspoonful or in desserts), milk, white rice, white bread, white potatoes or pasta made with the dreaded white flour. Those remain on a lifelong list of forbidden pleasures.

The diet does allow for adding fruits, vegetables, and whole-grain foods after the two-week induction period.

Nowhere does the above say it is a high-protein diet. Read carefully. Now, it definitely is low carb! Maybe you should go to amazon.com and read the summaries and reviews of his work.

[Tolley]

This is my understanding of the Atkins diet taken from WebMD website. It seems that on the maintenance plan you can eat wholegrains but in the initial phase it is a high protein diet? It seem you have a different take?

For most people, the carb consumption must be no more than 40 grams a day for this biochemical mechanism to occur. Although exercise isn't stressed, the Atkins theory holds that some people will need to add physical activity for ketosis to kick in. People are urged to supplement with vitamins, since they won't be getting them from sources such as vegetables and fruits.

The plan allows you to eat foods that many dieters have only dreamed about. The diet is said to work even if other diets have left you feeling depressed and deprived. The Atkins diet at a glance:

• Sets few limits on the amount of food you eat but instead severely restricts the kinds of food allowed on your plate: no refined sugar, milk, white rice, or white flour
  
• Allows you to eat foods traditionally regarded as "rich": meat, eggs, cheese, and more
  
• Claims to reduce your appetite in the process
  

On the Atkins diet, you're eating almost pure protein and fat. You can consume red meat, fish (including shellfish), fowl, and regular cheese (not "diet" cheese, cheese spreads, or whey cheeses). You can cook with butter, have mayo with your tuna, and put olive oil on your salads.

On the other hand, carbs are restricted (about 20 grams of net carbs per day, meaning total carbs minus fiber) in the first two weeks, which translates to three cups of loosely packed salad or two cups of salad with two-thirds cup of certain cooked vegetables each day.

There are no exceptions to these rules during the first two weeks because low-carb consumption (no fruits and only a few leafy green vegetables) is supposed to jump-start the weight-loss biochemical activity of the diet. You're not counting calories (in fact, you may be eating more calories than you were before).

Later, the carb allowance is increased in the form of fiber-rich foods, but you do not return to eating refined sugar (by the teaspoonful or in desserts), milk, white rice, white bread, white potatoes or pasta made with the dreaded white flour. Those remain on a lifelong list of forbidden pleasures.

The diet does allow for adding fruits, vegetables, and whole-grain foods after the two-week induction period.

Nowhere does the above say it is a high-protein diet. Read carefully. Now, it definitely is low carb! Maybe you should go to amazon.com and read the summaries and reviews of his work.

Mate you have been wrong on just about everything you said.

From above "On the Atkins diet, you're eating almost pure protein and fat".

You keep sprouting nonsense and with an atitude to boot.

The ketosis stage of the diet is supposed to be only the first two weeks where you can rapidly lose some weight and then you go on a maintenance diet which includes yeah whole grains which you were rubbishing in previous posts.

You have no clue to the Atkins diet as evidenced by your posts which are patently wrong.

[AllanB]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

If you're gonna kill yourself, why do it by slipping and falling on ice? Seems so unexciting by comparison to balcony jumping.

Well they would say that (his corporation) wouldn't they, not good for business for him to die of a diet rated heart attack, "slipped and fell over" sounds much better for business. Please give me a break!

"The Medical examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension (written "h/o MI, CHF, HTN")". Now that stinks rather like the perpetual farts of the people on his diet.

Just my opinion........ I could be wrong.

[Tolley]

And just for the education of certain posters have a read of this. Please note the use of high protein diet!

The Atkins Diet Debate

Dr. Atkins revolutionalized the dieting world when he introduced the Atkins diet, a low-carb eating program. The Atkins diet or the ‘Atkins Nutritional Approach’ is a lifetime nutritional philosophy. The diet claims that you can lose weight on a high-fat, high-protein diet. It works on the premise that a healthy lifestyle requires a limited amount of simple carbohydrates, protein, exercise and proper portion control.

The diet plan works on 4 general principles; weight loss, weight maintenance, good health and disease prevention. Today, the Atkins diet is the most popular, longstanding approach to weight loss in America. Over 40 million people around the world have joined in on the Atkins revolution and more than 15 million overweight men and women have bought Dr. Atkins’ best selling book ‘New Diet Revolution’. There is even a professional body (The Atkins Centre for Complimentary Medicine) devoted to educating Atkins followers.

How does the diet work?

The Atkins diet holds the controversial belief that low fat is not the only way to go for a healthier lifestyle and weight control. Dr. Atkins blamed carbohydrates (grains, pastas, fruits, potatoes) for weight gain. He believed that if you reduced your carbohydrate intake then you would lose weight. Too many carbohydrates in your diet encourage your body to retain fat. When the body absorbs simple carbohydrates quickly, it causes an insulin response that speeds the conversion of calories to fat. The plan focuses on the consumption of nutrient-dense, unprocessed foods and vita-nutrient supplementation. It also restricts processed and refined carbohydrates (which make up to approximately more then 50 per cent of people’s diets). It encourages you to eliminate sugar from your diet as this contributes to a slower metabolism. The Atkins diet is designed to be a program on which you can maintain a healthy weight for a lifetime and it is highly suitable (but not restricted) to those who prefer eating animal protein. The diet offers people who have failed on a low-fat diet a healthy, effective and safe alternative. Instead of carbs and sugar, eaters are allowed plenty of fat and protein.

The four phases

There are four phases to the Atkins diet, they are; 1) Induction, 2) Ongoing Weight Loss, 3) Pre-Maintenance and 4) Lifetime Maintenance.

1. Phase 1 (Induction) you restrict carbohydrate consumption to 20 grams each day, obtaining carbohydrate primarily from salad and other non-starchy vegetables.
   
2. Phase 2 (Ongoing Weight Loss) you increase carbohydrate in the form of nutrient-dense and fibre-rich foods by 20 grams daily in the first week and then 30 grams daily in the next week until you gradually lose weight. Then you subtract 5 grams of carbohydrate from your daily intake so that you continue sustained weight loss.
   
3. Phase 3 (Pre-Maintenance) you make the transition from weight loss to weight maintenance by increasing the daily carbohydrate intake in 10 gram increments each week.
   
4. Phase 4 Lifetime Maintenance) you select from a wide variety of foods while controlling carbohydrate intake to ensure weight maintenance.
   

There are mixed views on the Atkins diet amongst health experts and dieticians. Many experts are critical of low-carb diets but have not totally discounted the Atkins diet as an effective method of losing weight. Although they do assert that it is too early to adopt the low-carb diet, health experts do concede that it is worth exploring. One main criticism of the Atkins diet is that it does entail frequent meat consumption. However, followers argue that the program can be tailored for different preferences and metabolisms. After the first phase (known as the ‘Induction phase’) the Atkins diet plan can be modified. Despite the immense popularity of the diet, the Atkins diet plan continues to have many sceptics. Another criticism of the diet purports that a person is unlikely to keep the weight off over the long term. However, this claim could just as easily be applied to many low-fat or low-calorie weight loss plans, on which dieters are likely to feel hungry.

The Atkins Diet: Against

• Not ideal for vegetarians or vegans as it is a meat-heavy (protein) diet.
  
• Linked to osteoporosis, heart disease, colon cancer and renal disease.
  
• High in saturated fats and cholesterol.
  
• Low on fibre.
  
• Is sometimes below the recommended daily values for several vitamins and minerals such as calcium, potassium and magnesium.
  

The Atkins Diet: For:

• Allowed to eat fat and protein.
  
• Steady (and sometimes rapid) weight loss.
  
• Reduces intake of sugars and processed grains.
  
• Reduces appetite.
  
• Life-time approach to dieting.
  
• A ‘never be hungry’ approach to dieting.
  

Critics of the Atkins Diet

The American Heart Association (AHA) does not recommend high-protein diets for weight loss. They argue that the Atkins diet has not been proven effective for long term weight loss. They are critical of the Atkins diet’s focus on a high-protein diet that emphasises foods like meat and eggs that are rich in protein and/or saturated fats. The diet is not recommended because it restricts healthy foods that provide essential nutrients.

They also criticise the Atkins plan for its high cholesterol, fat and protein content and its low-fibre intake. The AHA asserts that most people already eat more protein and fat than their bodies need, and eating a high-protein, high-fat diet raises the risk of many types of disease. The most serious claim against the Atkins plan is that it’s linked to a number of potential health risks such as osteoporosis, stroke, coronary heart disease, a propensity to form kidney stones, liver disorders and diabetes.

Advocates of the Atkins Diet

There are a number of misconceptions surrounding the Atkins diet plan, the most popular of these is the misconception that you consume mostly red meat and can never eat carbs. Many people view the diet as a bacon, burger and butter diet, however one of the benefits of the Atkins program is that it gets you away from eating too much sugar and processed foods. The Atkins plan reduces (rather than excludes) your carbohydrate intake (like sugar, white flour and white rice).

Another misconception is that you can eat all you want while following the Atkins program. Although the program refuses to accept hunger as a way of life, it does believe in the philosophy of moderation. Eating a well-portioned and satisfying meal is an extremely important part of the Atkins diet. The Atkins plan teaches you to control your portion sizes.

In response to criticisms that the Atkins diet is linked to disease – contrary studies have shown that over a four month period, the Atkins diet helped a group of people drop an average of 21 pounds, lower their cholesterol and triglyceride levels and raise HDL (‘good’ cholesterol). Advocates of the diet argue that people at high risk for chronic illnesses such as cardiovascular disease, hypertension and diabetes will see a marked improvement. They go even further to claim that by following this plan you are actually laying a permanent groundwork for disease prevention.

Generally, critics are sceptical of how a high-protein, high-fat diet can result in weight loss. Research shows that people can keep off weight lost with the Atkins plan as long as they don’t go back to eating the way they used to eat. People have successfully lost weight with this approach for over thirty years. Several studies have shown that men and women lost twice the weight on the Atkins plan, compared to those individuals following a ‘high-respected’ low-fat diet. However, many success stories involve support of some kind. Studies show that dieters typically lose more weight when they linked up with the Internet – a virtual dieting community where dieters can obtain weight loss information, Atkins diet recipes and contact other dieters who are sharing the same goals. On the Internet, followers can also get a personalised Atkins meal plan and 24/7 peer and professional support without leaving their home

Edited October 15, 2012 by Tolley

[tominbkk]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

Or perhaps you don't know what the frack you're talking about? He slipped on the ice and died of a brain haemorrhage. Sorry to ruin your little fantasy.

[AllanB]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

Or perhaps you don't know what the frack you're talking about? He slipped on the ice and died of a brain haemorrhage. Sorry to ruin your little fantasy.

So you know more than the medical examiner, ....or maybe you don't know what the frack you are talking about. Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.

[JSixpack]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

If you're gonna kill yourself, why do it by slipping and falling on ice? Seems so unexciting by comparison to balcony jumping.

Well they would say that (his corporation) wouldn't they, not good for business for him to die of a diet rated heart attack, "slipped and fell over" sounds much better for business. Please give me a break!

And the corporation paid off the coroner of the City of New York to put that fake reason on Dr. Atkins death certificate: "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma". OMG!

Yes, it's all a vast conspiracy as you KNOW. But wait--you haven't been able to see behind the corporation. It goes much, much further. Dig more deeply and the name George W. Bush will emerge. Then--dare I mention--none other than The Illuminati?

"The Medical examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension (written "h/o MI, CHF, HTN")". Now that stinks rather like the perpetual farts of the people on his diet.

Just my opinion........ I could be wrong.

Yawn.

"The above Committee made much of this and began the rumor that Atkins had "died of his own diet". The misconceptions remain to this day.

The year following his death,

his widow released a statement taking what she called "unscrupulous individuals" to task for spreading falsehoods about her husband.

Apparently, those individuals are still having a measure of success."

--http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/atkinsdiet/a/dratkinsdeath.htm

Yep, still are.

[JSixpack]

And just for the education of certain posters have a read of this. Please note the use of high protein diet!

The Atkins Diet Debate

Dr. Atkins revolutionalized the dieting world when he introduced the Atkins diet, a low-carb eating program. The Atkins diet or the ‘Atkins Nutritional Approach’ is a lifetime nutritional philosophy. The diet claims that you can lose weight on a high-fat, high-protein diet. It works on the premise that a healthy lifestyle requires a limited amount of simple carbohydrates, protein, exercise and proper portion control.

This article is merely an example of sloppy inexpert writing common on the internet from which many people do receive their limited educations. It's funny how it changes from "low carb" to "high-fat, high-protein" to leaving out the fat altogether in the last sentence. The fat is a critical part of low-carb diets. You can't ignore its importance.

And this later sentence leaves out the fat (and the carbs) also:

The American Heart Association (AHA) does not recommend high-protein diets for weight loss.

Hence the source isn't really credible, and the AHA isn't, in fact, talking about Atkins.

If you'd just go read the Atkins book itself (duh!), you'll see Atkins says nothing about high protein, doesn't specify a percentage of protein, and his suggested meal plans never specify more than the normal daily protein caloric intake as recommended by the USDA. If Atkins does specify high protein, then where exactly does he do it? I've got his New Diet Revolution sitting right here.

This rather turgid vid will explain it to you:

I don't know why it's SO important to cling to this little myth and go out of your way to repeat it. But I think rather than continue to flail around to find the misinformed who agree with you--which one can always do on the internet--it's time for you to go to Atkins himself and see what he really does say.

[AllanB]

The year following his death, his widow released a statement taking what she called "unscrupulous individuals" to task for spreading falsehoods about her husband....Duh! She inherited the company!!!!!... I wish some of you guys would open you eyes

.....not that interested as to whether he fell on ice or not, or whether he fell as a result of his diet induced medical condition, or whatever. The fact is he did have a serious medical condition and judging by the doctor's warnings of this diet, this was probably cause.

As far as I understand it does work, but I think it is very unhealthy....however, so are the alternative of being overweight, fitting gastric bands, etc. So I will leave it to the Atkins fans to make up their own minds and wish them good luck.

[Tolley]

And just for the education of certain posters have a read of this. Please note the use of high protein diet!

The Atkins Diet Debate

Dr. Atkins revolutionalized the dieting world when he introduced the Atkins diet, a low-carb eating program. The Atkins diet or the ‘Atkins Nutritional Approach’ is a lifetime nutritional philosophy. The diet claims that you can lose weight on a high-fat, high-protein diet. It works on the premise that a healthy lifestyle requires a limited amount of simple carbohydrates, protein, exercise and proper portion control.

This article is merely an example of sloppy inexpert writing common on the internet from which many people do receive their limited educations. It's funny how it changes from "low carb" to "high-fat, high-protein" to leaving out the fat altogether in the last sentence. The fat is a critical part of low-carb diets. You can't ignore its importance.

And this later sentence leaves out the fat (and the carbs) also:

The American Heart Association (AHA) does not recommend high-protein diets for weight loss.

Hence the source isn't really credible, and the AHA isn't, in fact, talking about Atkins.

If you'd just go read the Atkins book itself (duh!), you'll see Atkins says nothing about high protein, doesn't specify a percentage of protein, and his suggested meal plans never specify more than the normal daily protein caloric intake as recommended by the USDA. If Atkins does specify high protein, then where exactly does he do it? I've got his New Diet Revolution sitting right here.

This rather turgid vid will explain it to you:

I don't know why it's SO important to cling to this little myth and go out of your way to repeat it. But I think rather than continue to flail around to find the misinformed who agree with you--which one can always do on the internet--it's time for you to go to Atkins himself and see what he really does say.

Your credibility is zero please review you earlier posts about what you were saying about diet and Atkins. All wrong.

[JSixpack]

.....not that interested as to whether he fell on ice or not, or whether he fell as a result of his diet induced medical condition, or whatever.

True, you aren't interested because you KNOW. But you said it was a suicide and a coverup.

The fact is he did have a serious medical condition and judging by the doctor's warnings of this diet, this was probably cause.

He did have a condition. No, the diet had nothing to do with it, nor do you have any evidence that it did. Just blowing hot air. Nobody's intimidated.

As far as I understand it does work, but I think it is very unhealthy

I wouldn't describe what you're doing in this case as thinking, as you have no evidence for thinking. It's feeling and accordingly knowing by feeling. Do enjoy that.

Now I want you to use your very considerable expertise to analyze this lab report from one following the what you know as an unhealthy diet and point out its indicators of DANGER:

http://garytaubes.com/2011/04/before-sugar-were-talking-about-cholesterol/

[Tolley]

And just for the education of certain posters have a read of this. Please note the use of high protein diet!

The Atkins Diet Debate

Dr. Atkins revolutionalized the dieting world when he introduced the Atkins diet, a low-carb eating program. The Atkins diet or the ‘Atkins Nutritional Approach’ is a lifetime nutritional philosophy. The diet claims that you can lose weight on a high-fat, high-protein diet. It works on the premise that a healthy lifestyle requires a limited amount of simple carbohydrates, protein, exercise and proper portion control.

This article is merely an example of sloppy inexpert writing common on the internet from which many people do receive their limited educations. It's funny how it changes from "low carb" to "high-fat, high-protein" to leaving out the fat altogether in the last sentence. The fat is a critical part of low-carb diets. You can't ignore its importance.

And this later sentence leaves out the fat (and the carbs) also:

The American Heart Association (AHA) does not recommend high-protein diets for weight loss.

Hence the source isn't really credible, and the AHA isn't, in fact, talking about Atkins.

If you'd just go read the Atkins book itself (duh!), you'll see Atkins says nothing about high protein, doesn't specify a percentage of protein, and his suggested meal plans never specify more than the normal daily protein caloric intake as recommended by the USDA. If Atkins does specify high protein, then where exactly does he do it? I've got his New Diet Revolution sitting right here.

This rather turgid vid will explain it to you:

I don't know why it's SO important to cling to this little myth and go out of your way to repeat it. But I think rather than continue to flail around to find the misinformed who agree with you--which one can always do on the internet--it's time for you to go to Atkins himself and see what he really does say.

The Atkins diet was also signifcantly altered after many warnings from the medical profession and dietary experts because initially it was permanently llmiting carbs to an extremely low level but now it has moderated its stance by allowing more and more carbs in the diet until now the Atkins so called maintenance diet is what people like me eat anyway.

The so called ketosis is only really if you want to lose a lot of weight short term and then go on a gradual maintenance diet which includes whole grains. And the ketosis is induced by eating mostly protein with a smidgin something like 20grams a day of carbs which of course means you are not getting many veggies either.

[AllanB]

Now I want you to use your very considerable expertise to analyze this lab report from one following the what you know as an unhealthy diet and point out its indicators of DANGER:

No, sod off and do it yourself. I have told you am not interested.

I will give you a pointer, Google Atkins diet dangers, you will find stuff to keep you busy the rest of your life........

[tominbkk]

And just for the education of certain posters have a read of this. Please note the use of high protein diet!

The Atkins Diet Debate

Dr. Atkins revolutionalized the dieting world when he introduced the Atkins diet, a low-carb eating program. The Atkins diet or the ‘Atkins Nutritional Approach’ is a lifetime nutritional.....

Good and fine, but this article misrepresents the Atkins Diet, and is obviously written by somebody who touts the high carb diet.

[tominbkk]

Or just kill yourself now and be done with it, perhaps that is what Atkins did?

Or perhaps you don't know what the frack you're talking about? He slipped on the ice and died of a brain haemorrhage. Sorry to ruin your little fantasy.

So you know more than the medical examiner, ....or maybe you don't know what the frack you are talking about. Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.

You don't give a shit, I guess cause you know you were wrong! haha.

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work, hitting his head and causing bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure. During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid, and his weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds. His death certificate states that the cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma".

[tominbkk]

...

Edited October 15, 2012 by tominbkk

[tominbkk]

Now I want you to use your very considerable expertise to analyze this lab report from one following the what you know as an unhealthy diet and point out its indicators of DANGER:

No, sod off and do it yourself. I have told you am not interested.

I will give you a pointer, Google Atkins diet dangers, you will find stuff to keep you busy the rest of your life........

Google the dangers of excessive high processed carb diet as well, plenty to see!

[tropo]

They found by testing the blood for these 2 hormones over a 24 hour period that fat people never get very hungry. Ghrelin sits around the middle, between high and low, all day and the "full hormone" does the same. Normal people have a spike and trough with these 2 hormones, switching their hunger on and off.

How fast or slowly they eat is inconsequential. These people are fighting major hormonal disturbances.

I believe if you can get your body into ketosis for a couple weeks your body rapidly starts to realign all the hormones at work. I know when I used to eat milled or processed carbs, or sugar or sweet, highly cultivated fruit, that I never knew if I was hungry or not.

I havent seen research to support this, do you have any links. I am curious about this. Right now im low in my carbs (no ketosis i think) but i would not mind trying ketosis though its hard as there are carbs in almost anything.

I must be getting into ketosis because my wife sometimes complains about my breath.

Perhaps my BMR is quite high. I was on a 7 hour flight yesterday wearing a tank top and shorts while everyone around me were wearing jackets, long pants and covering themselves with blankets. At stages I was even feeling hot.

[JSixpack]

Now I want you to use your very considerable expertise to analyze this lab report from one following the what you know as an unhealthy diet and point out its indicators of DANGER:

No, sod off and do it yourself. I have told you am not interested.

And we know why you're suddenly not interested.

.

I will give you a pointer, Google Atkins diet dangers, you will find stuff to keep you busy the rest of your life........

Oh, but so will googling Jenny Craig diet, Weight Watchers diet, Zone diet, South Beach Diet ad infinitum.

All this means is that you don't know any science or facts yourself, just google around and follow what "feels" good. You don't really have any evidence for your "think" that Atikins is dangerous, and you've just been presented with the lab report of someone who follows Atkins, same as Dr. Atkins himself, whose lab report also indicated no evidence of arteriosclerosis. Why would it? You have no reason for thinking it would.

Which means it's really you who should sod off, having nothing of substance to contribute and just wish to troll and spread confusion.

Edited October 16, 2012 by JSixpack

[robblok]

They found by testing the blood for these 2 hormones over a 24 hour period that fat people never get very hungry. Ghrelin sits around the middle, between high and low, all day and the "full hormone" does the same. Normal people have a spike and trough with these 2 hormones, switching their hunger on and off.

How fast or slowly they eat is inconsequential. These people are fighting major hormonal disturbances.

I believe if you can get your body into ketosis for a couple weeks your body rapidly starts to realign all the hormones at work. I know when I used to eat milled or processed carbs, or sugar or sweet, highly cultivated fruit, that I never knew if I was hungry or not.

I havent seen research to support this, do you have any links. I am curious about this. Right now im low in my carbs (no ketosis i think) but i would not mind trying ketosis though its hard as there are carbs in almost anything.

I must be getting into ketosis because my wife sometimes complains about my breath.

Perhaps my BMR is quite high. I was on a 7 hour flight yesterday wearing a tank top and shorts while everyone around me were wearing jackets, long pants and covering themselves with blankets. At stages I was even feeling hot.

Tropo, im not sure you ever go so low, i mean 30 grams of carbs a day is nothing. YOu are probably higher then that.

[JSixpack]

Your credibility is zero please review you earlier posts about what you were saying about diet and Atkins. All wrong.

It's always productive when the loser declares victory and goes home. That way, we both save time & effort.

To summarize, you've asserted

• Atkins is a high-protein diet
  
• A carb is a carb, no matter the source; carb counts and GI indexes don't matter, even though the GI index of oatmeal is 87 and of kale 3.63.
  
• You yourself never diet; you choose brown rice simply because it tastes better and steer clear of cheese and milk because you don't like them; and you try to eat smaller meals regularly just because . . . well, I just can't think of any reason besides dieting, but, after all, you don't diet.
  

​And all these have have been shown false or merely hot air. Meanwhile, I don't eat smaller meals, enjoy pork and chicken w/ fat, eggs and bacon for breakfast, and enjoy cheese and Greek yoghurt, and still maintain ideal body weight and good numbers. I do diet, avoiding all sugar and starches including brown rice etc. I no longer drink beer, but I enjoy wine and fine whiskey.

Well, congrats, you've clearly won, made a great case from secondary sourced internet junk, and greatly lifted your credibility while me, as you've said, I've lost all credibility in the forum, losing my will to live, slinking away in total defeat! Good-bye, Tolley! If I never post again, you know the reason . . . .

Edited October 16, 2012 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

I will give you a pointer, Google Atkins diet dangers, you will find stuff to keep you busy the rest of your life........

And I will give you a pointer, Google Atkins diet benefits (or low-carb diet benefits), you will find stuff to keep you busy the rest of your life........

The definitive argument!

[Tolley]

Your credibility is zero please review you earlier posts about what you were saying about diet and Atkins. All wrong.

It's always productive when the loser declares victory and goes home. That way, we both save time & effort.

To summarize, you've asserted

• Atkins is a high-protein diet
  
• A carb is a carb, no matter the source; carb counts and GI indexes don't matter, even though the GI index of oatmeal is 87 and of kale 3.63.
  
• You yourself never diet; you choose brown rice simply because it tastes better and steer clear of cheese and milk because you don't like them; and you try to eat smaller meals regularly just because . . . well, I just can't think of any reason besides dieting, but, after all, you don't diet.
  

​And all these have have been shown false or merely hot air. Meanwhile, I don't eat smaller meals, enjoy pork and chicken w/ fat, eggs and bacon for breakfast, and enjoy cheese and Greek yoghurt, and still maintain ideal body weight and good numbers. I do diet, avoiding all sugar and starches including brown rice etc. I no longer drink beer, but I enjoy wine and fine whiskey.

Well, congrats, you've clearly won, made a great case from secondary sourced internet junk, and greatly lifted your credibility while me, as you've said, I've lost all credibility in the forum, losing my will to live, slinking away in total defeat! Good-bye, Tolley! If I never post again, you know the reason . . . .

The fact is you dont even know what the Atkins diet is as evidenced by your ignorant posts.

You pooh hooed wholegrains and then when I pointed out they were part of the Atkins maintenance regime you ignored me.

And i never said all carbs were the same please find the quote for that?

Further you were saying you could eat as much meat, cheese etc as you liked and then said you are not eating a high protein diet but you were on a low carb diet! Heck you are on low carbs and you are eating mainly protein therefore you are eating a high protein diet.

Additionally you were rabbiting on about ketosis but the ketosis stage of the Atkins diet is now supposed to last only two weeks not forever because there are some serious medical issues with drastically reducing carbs forever.

Finally my web sources are from WebMD now who do you think has more credibility you or WebMD?

Now go away and please keep your promise not to post half truths and bits and pieces.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Tolley