Red-Yellow Clash Was 'instigated', Bangkok Police Say

[webfact]

Red-yellow clash was 'instigated', police say

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Tuesday's clash between the yellow shirts and red shirts seemed to be instigated, a police officer said yesterday.

"I don't know which group it was, but there were hard-core people trying to cause chaos," Crime Suppression Division deputy commander Pol Colonel Prasopchok Prommoon said yesterday.

"The clash happened after police had talked to the protesters and they had agreed to disperse," he said. "We separated the red shirts to the left side of the gate and the yellow shirts to the right side - police officers were in the middle. But the clash spilled out like the student brawls and the area is big, so it was difficult to control."

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung issued a "first come, first-served" rule for subsequent demonstrations - the first group to arrive may remain while the rivals must go elsewhere.

Tuesday's clash occurred at the Crime Suppression Division headquarters when hundreds of members of the rival groups gathered for a summons hearing of schoolteacher Manassanan Nookham, who faces a defamation lawsuit filed by red-shirt leader Darunee Kritboonyalai. In the melee, the groups threw water bottles and rocks at each other. Five people were injured.

The groups had been mistakenly informed of the date of the summons hearing, which was to be today. It has been rescheduled for October 29.

Red-shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong, a Pheu Thai MP, called on the yellow-shirt leaders to control their supporters. He also warned the red-shirt supporters to behave to prevent any negative publicity for the government.

-- The Nation 2012-09-27

related:

Chalerm orders security beefup for political gathering venues

http://www.thaivisa....thering-venues/

[siampolee]

Red-shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong, a Pheu Thai MP, called on the yellow-shirt leaders to control their supporters. He also warned the red-shirt supporters to behave to prevent any negative publicity for the government.

Pot, kettle, Black.

Seems as if the Red Shirts don't like when people oppose their ideals,

Wonderful take on democracy is it not,my way or no way..

[FOODLOVER]

"Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung issued a "first come, first-served" rule for subsequent demonstrations - the first group to arrive may remain while the rivals must go elsewhere."

We had this same rule in kindergarten, disobey and off to the corner with ya!

[asiawatcher]

Red-shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong, a Pheu Thai MP, called on the yellow-shirt leaders to control their supporters. He also warned the red-shirt supporters to behave to prevent any negative publicity for the government.

Pot, kettle, Black.

Seems as if the Red Shirts don't like when people oppose their ideals,

Wonderful take on democracy is it not,my way or no way..

Yep - no doubt the reds are passive supporters of democracy.

[Seri]

So who came first? I thought it was the yellow shirts but it doesn't say in the couple of TV articles I read.

[GentlemanJim]

"Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung issued a "first come, first-served" rule for subsequent demonstrations - the first group to arrive may remain while the rivals must go elsewhere."

We had this same rule in kindergarten, disobey and off to the corner with ya!

Furthermore, Chalerm's ill considered comments are a sure fire way of having respective groups arrive early - like 2 days or 3 days early, just to be first on the scene and claim their stake. It's all a scenario that will make the lives of the locals and their business communities even more insufferable.

[Fozfromoz]

We should test the system. Lets all rip around to the US Embassy at 9.45' haft a hurry though!

[fareastguy]

Quote:

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung issued a "first come, first-served" rule for subsequent demonstrations - the first group to arrive may remain while the rivals must go elsewhere.

Well that will work well, now we'll see protest camps being set up day's before hearings so they can claim to have been there first !!

I really do believe Chalerm's brains are located about 3 feet from his head.

[Thaddeus]

I really do believe Chalerm's brains are located about 3 feet from his head.

Bit further than that, a couple of thousand miles further.

[TheKrayTriplet]

Furthermore, Chalerm's ill considered comments are a sure fire way of having respective groups arrive early - like 2 days or 3 days early, just to be first on the scene and claim their stake. It's all a scenario that will make the lives of the locals and their business communities even more insufferable.

The power of the newspaper article. Yesterday it was this according to MCOT

Mr Chalerm said that such an incident must not be repeated and ordered the police chief to tighten security procedures at venues of political gathering. Group members who arrive later than the first-arriving group will not be allowed to enter the compound to avoid confrontation.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/587052-chalerm-orders-security-beefup-for-political-gathering-venues/#entry5700911

And today we have the emotional The Nation interpreting these words as

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung issued a "first come, first-served" rule for subsequent demonstrations - the first group to arrive may remain while the rivals must go elsewhere.

which prompts the easily led to come up with emotive posts like the one I reply to. Malcolm X said many things, good and bad but can't be faulted for his quote:

“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”

how often has that proven to be true?

[LuckyLew]

First come first serve

Sounds like a massage parlor or walking street

Worried about negative publicityfor the Gov't .. that is all they get

and that is all they deserve. Would be nice if the did something good

for the country for a change

[Nickymaster]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

[Nickymaster]

Let me guess.... Chalerm will tell his red-leader friends to send 5000 desperate reds to parliament a few days before they start forcing their whitewash bill trough.

Chalerm is a genius.

What if people don't listen Mr. (drive a million dollar pink Bentley) Chalerm?

Btw, does your son know how to use sniper rifles?

[GeorgeO]

So who came first? I thought it was the yellow shirts but it doesn't say in the couple of TV articles I read.

How sad is all of this .... does anyone remember the plot to kidnap Caesar's wife in Life of Brian? We were here first .... no you weren't .... yes we were .... !

Doubtless, there will be video "evidence" to show that the red shirts were there first...!! So the blame goes squarely on to the shoulders of anyone not associated with the current government.

[MunterHunter]

Btw, does your son know how to use sniper rifles?

With his new job, he will probably learn quite quickly

[culicine]

And who is to judge "when a group has arrived" ? Maybe we will see a lonely protester sitting at the compound for a week, just to claim their stake? Or what percentage of protesters must arrive for them to "have arrived"? I doubt they will all arrive at the same time. Nice one Chalerm!

[TheKrayTriplet]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by

people

who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

[Nickymaster]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by

people

who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

Remember, i don't support red, yellow, TS, Sondhi etc etc etc.

Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? whitewashing criminals = restoring rule of law

I have seen enough about the coward to have my own judgment. Atleast Sondhi is still in Thailand and not instigating violence from abroad.

Fact is that the crook wants it ALL. It's either winning or losing in his narcissistic mind.

It must hurt to see your hero suffering but justice WILL prevail.

Are you from Zimbabwe?

Edited September 27, 2012 by Nickymaster

[ramrod711]

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung issued a "first come, first-served" rule for subsequent demonstrations - the first group to arrive may remain while the rivals must go elsewhere.

The question that everyone should be asking is, Who is going to enforce this? We all know how the police did their jobs during the riots in Bangkok, and that was before Thaksin appointed his ex brother in law. Recently, while muslims were surrounding the American embassy, the chief of police decided it would be a good time to have a love-in for his hero, Thaksin. Sounds to me like it may be pie in the sky to expect even handed enforcement.

[khunken]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by

people

who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

You know it's a funny thing, but just like Nickymaster, I thought I smelled PPD too.

No one, not even Sondhi, comes close to Thaksin in stirring up a mob - almost always for his own monetary benefit. As far as the 'amart' is concerned a line for a Who track is appropriate: '..... the new boss, same as the old boss'

The objection to a new or re-written constitution is that many don't trust the PTP as they only want to amend the parts that don't benefit them directly. By the way, there is not much wrong with the current constitution.

[TheKrayTriplet]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by

people

who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

You know it's a funny thing, but just like Nickymaster, I thought I smelled PPD too.

No one, not even Sondhi, comes close to Thaksin in stirring up a mob - almost always for his own monetary benefit. As far as the 'amart' is concerned a line for a Who track is appropriate: '..... the new boss, same as the old boss'

The objection to a new or re-written constitution is that many don't trust the PTP as they only want to amend the parts that don't benefit them directly. By the way, there is not much wrong with the current constitution.

Lets start again . I maintain that the newspapers are deliberately manipulating facts to keep the old divisions going and provide a sample above. I try and be polite by suggesting that you are too western to fall for it and then you go and disprove that by coming out with the same stale old "facts" that you have obviously gleaned from the Nation amongst other similar sources.

My posts are targeted at people with some knowledge of the world around them and some understanding of the issues they address.

Best for you if you just put me on ignore.

[Buchholz]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

You know it's a funny thing, but just like Nickymaster, I thought I smelled PPD too.

No one, not even Sondhi, comes close to Thaksin in stirring up a mob - almost always for his own monetary benefit. As far as the 'amart' is concerned a line for a Who track is appropriate: '..... the new boss, same as the old boss'

The objection to a new or re-written constitution is that many don't trust the PTP as they only want to amend the parts that don't benefit them directly. By the way, there is not much wrong with the current constitution.

Concur on the strong smell. It's certainly distinct.

Also concur that Chalerm's solution of "not allowing" a second group to the same area as the first group

is no solution.

Not unless the police decide to do that which they have failed to do over the last several years. It still could easily prompt the sit-in by a few shirts days in advance in order to be considered that first group in a compound.

(btw, it's strange that one would somehow consider that process as different than a first-come, first-served system.)

You're right about the constitution as well. It's always been vague whenever the query goes out to what exactly the Reds want to change. We'll find out soon enough though, because, as directed by the Montenegrin in charge, that will be the tactic now for the Pheu Thai Party.

.

[Buchholz]

So who came first? I thought it was the yellow shirts but it doesn't say in the couple of TV articles I read.

Traditionally, the instigator would be identified as "someone whose name begins with - insert any letter - "

As for who came first? It's not been in anything I've read of the hand-bag fracas.

Bit of the chicken versus the egg.

.

[Credo]

If it is legal to protest, how can you allow one group and not the other? Wouldn't this violate their civil rights?

And if you can prevent one group, why not just prevent both (all) groups?

[Throatwobbler]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by

people

who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

You know it's a funny thing, but just like Nickymaster, I thought I smelled PPD too.

No one, not even Sondhi, comes close to Thaksin in stirring up a mob - almost always for his own monetary benefit. As far as the 'amart' is concerned a line for a Who track is appropriate: '..... the new boss, same as the old boss'

The objection to a new or re-written constitution is that many don't trust the PTP as they only want to amend the parts that don't benefit them directly. By the way, there is not much wrong with the current constitution.

Lets start again . I maintain that the newspapers are deliberately manipulating facts to keep the old divisions going and provide a sample above. I try and be polite by suggesting that you are too western to fall for it and then you go and disprove that by coming out with the same stale old "facts" that you have obviously gleaned from the Nation amongst other similar sources.

My posts are targeted at people with some knowledge of the world around them and some understanding of the issues they address.

Best for you if you just put me on ignore.

So what parts of the constitution need changing and why. I would suggest that you mind has been influenced by people claiming that it needs changing.

[Noistar]

You know it's a funny thing, but just like Nickymaster, I thought I smelled PPD too.

No one, not even Sondhi, comes close to Thaksin in stirring up a mob - almost always for his own monetary benefit. As far as the 'amart' is concerned a line for a Who track is appropriate: '..... the new boss, same as the old boss'

The objection to a new or re-written constitution is that many don't trust the PTP as they only want to amend the parts that don't benefit them directly. By the way, there is not much wrong with the current constitution.

Lets start again . I maintain that the newspapers are deliberately manipulating facts to keep the old divisions going and provide a sample above. I try and be polite by suggesting that you are too western to fall for it and then you go and disprove that by coming out with the same stale old "facts" that you have obviously gleaned from the Nation amongst other similar sources.

My posts are targeted at people with some knowledge of the world around them and some understanding of the issues they address.

Best for you if you just put me on ignore.

I don't know why, but every time I read certain posts I expect one of my old 'friends' to be the author.

The fact is, from sources other than the Nation, the present Constitution is acknowledged to be an improvement on its predecessor. The problem for many is the origination of the Constitution, rather than the content.

'Not written here' is the problem and is a perfect reason for the ruling part to justify changes.

Unfortunately, their intentions are crystal clear. Remove any check mechanism so the 'perfect' Democracy can be established and maintained.

Wonder if they'll achieve this without opposition?

They've got rid of the role of the Opposition in Parliament, but the ruling party might find things in the outside world are not quite as simple.

IMHO

[Noistar]

The Red/Yellow problems will not go away.

Once again the Government's mouth, rather than its brains are ruling.

As has been pointed out the ultra-simplistic PR sound-bite, is totally unworkable.

Now we'll have the playground - I was here first, no you weren't, yes I was..........

There, all solved - but unfortunately not.

Have it all sorted in 3 months will we?

[nurofiend]

Red-shirt leader Kokaew Pikulthong, a Pheu Thai MP, called on the yellow-shirt leaders to control their supporters. He also warned the red-shirt supporters to behave to prevent any negative publicity for the government.

Pot, kettle, Black.

Seems as if the Red Shirts don't like when people oppose their ideals,

Wonderful take on democracy is it not,my way or no way..

Yep - no doubt the reds are passive supporters of democracy.

so he tells them both to behave themselves and there's still something wrong with that...

[nurofiend]

Nice try to blame the newspapers. No newspaper is 100% neutral, we all know that, therefore own judgment is key.

Fact is that all this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people for their own benefit.

Do I smell ppd?

So you had made up your own mind beforehand, fair enough, you may be influenced by newspaper articles, but you're not the one fighting on the street are you?

Your point that this division and hatred towards each other is caused by people who have deep pockets and are very good at misleading people is a good one, but don't just apply that thought towards the one man. Who do you think controls the newspapers and the television channels? Could they be the very people who have a vested interest in the status quo wrt "democracy". How do you think Sondhi despite 5 jail sentences, one very serious, for fraud, of 20 years is still walking around free? Why the immense campaign against a rewritten constitution that would restore Rule of Law instead of Rule by Law? Status Quo anybody? Thaksin is a convenient hate figure to distract attention whilst everybody else in the old amart jockey for position.

You know it's a funny thing, but just like Nickymaster, I thought I smelled PPD too.

No one, not even Sondhi, comes close to Thaksin in stirring up a mob - almost always for his own monetary benefit. As far as the 'amart' is concerned a line for a Who track is appropriate: '..... the new boss, same as the old boss'

The objection to a new or re-written constitution is that many don't trust the PTP as they only want to amend the parts that don't benefit them directly. By the way, there is not much wrong with the current constitution.

Concur on the strong smell. It's certainly distinct.

Also concur that Chalerm's solution of "not allowing" a second group to the same area as the first group

is no solution.

Not unless the police decide to do that which they have failed to do over the last several years. It still could easily prompt the sit-in by a few shirts days in advance in order to be considered that first group in a compound.

(btw, it's strange that one would somehow consider that process as different than a first-come, first-served system.)

You're right about the constitution as well. It's always been vague whenever the query goes out to what exactly the Reds want to change. We'll find out soon enough though, because, as directed by the Montenegrin in charge, that will be the tactic now for the Pheu Thai Party.

.

are you really one to speak out about reincarnated members buchlolz?

[Thaddeus]

are you really one to speak out about reincarnated members buchlolz?

At least most of us know who he was, and you are/were?