To Invest A Condo In Pattaya. Will It Be A Good Investment?

[gk10002000]

Think "buddhist" and go with no attachments. Rent and be able to walk away as needed. Invest your money in any other security you want, be it bonds, stocks, etc. Thai laws and local mafias can have very compelling ways to separate you from your money. Do you want a place you feel like calling home? Fine, buy a modest place. If you only stay a few months of each year on holidays and want to let good friends or some people from your home area to go and use it, that is fine too. but to pour a bunch of money in, just reeks of risk.

[Ohio]

Have looked at buying a Condo in Pattaya for more than 10 years , we stay a few months a year and Rent.

We have investment properties in Australia & USA. They all have a good return for us.

The money being asked for some Condos are high we bought a 2 Story 5 year old house in North Las Vegas rented out within a month on Lease for just over half the cost of a 2 Bedroom Condo in Pattaya.

Some Condos we looked at 2 - 3 years ago are still for sale. Investment ??? IMO ....NO !!

To retire to ........YES.... so buy in 10 years when it happens.

My nickels worth

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Prices are inflated beyond imagination, and more concrete coffins are going up. The entire area has been declining in many ways for at least ten years now (yes, there are still some positives). I would never buy into this market. A big boom is coming, but it will make a crashing sound There are bargains outside of Thailand. Having said that, if you are filthy rich and do not care about what things cost, some of the top-end condo units are not that bad, especially those that face the water (front side corner units).

[JSixpack]

Prices are inflated beyond imagination, and more concrete coffins are going up. The entire area has been declining in many ways for at least ten years now (yes, there are still some positives). I would never buy into this market. A big boom is coming, but it will make a crashing sound There are bargains outside of Thailand. Having said that, if you are filthy rich and do not care about what things cost, some of the top-end condo units are not that bad, especially those that face the water (front side corner units).

You'll typically hear such CONDO GLUT and DYING PATTAYA gloom-and-doom themes promoted tirelessly by a number of nostalgic members longing for the old days when Beach Road had been recently paved for the first time, beers were B15, and a certain lovely Miss Noi reigned in whatever Beach Rd. bar.

As I said above, it depends on your budget and lifestyle. If you plan to live here, want your own place, and like the development (after having performed your due diligence), any time's a good time to buy. Many retirees do and are happily enjoying their lives in their "concrete coffins."

If you're buying partly for investment and rental income, then you've got to be much more selective about the development: established, good reputation, convenient location, well-managed, quality development, beachfront or seaview. Markland, for example, as I noted.

[Ronnie3378]

I saw a lot condos in Pattaya, are there occupied?

Who are the owners for the condos in general? Local thai people or Farang?

[sotsira]

I saw a lot condos in Pattaya, are there occupied?

Who are the owners for the condos in general? Local thai people or Farang?

Many newer condo buildings are not 100% sold or occupied, usually 50% sold and 30% occupied

due to the foreign quoter law that only allows 49% of the building to be owned in foreign name.

The rest of these buildings are mostly empty shells or the occasional Thai ownership or company ownership.

The older buildings are a lot cheaper due to their age and condition,these are 100% sold with a mix of 50-50 Thai & foreign

ownership.

[Basil B]

Nether buy on the advice of someone who will gain financially.

The real estate business is unregulated and speak to anyone in the business and they will tell you everybody else in the business is crock, talk to two people in the business then everybody in the business is a crock.

Look at some of the prestigious projects built only a few years ago and compare the resell price compared with the original purchase price.

[Basil B]

Another aspect of a condo is you are purchasing a box within a big project, anything outside your box is communal property managed by the "Juristic Person" to which you pay monthly or annual maintenance fees, probably also with new developments there will be a sink fund as well to provide for "Rainy Days" in years to come.

Condominiums can be saddled with cronies of the developer, who control utility supplies and cream off large commissions and it takes years for co owners to get them replaced by that time the sink funds are depleted and the condominium is in debt.

I would advise any one seriously thinking of buying a condo is to look at the second hand market, and check out how well the condo is run, look for minutes of meetings, accounts, at least when you buy second hand and you negotiate well you have a realistic chance of selling it at a comparable market price to which you bought it.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Basil B

[sotsira]

Prices are inflated beyond imagination, and more concrete coffins are going up. The entire area has been declining in many ways for at least ten years now (yes, there are still some positives). I would never buy into this market. A big boom is coming, but it will make a crashing sound There are bargains outside of Thailand. Having said that, if you are filthy rich and do not care about what things cost, some of the top-end condo units are not that bad, especially those that face the water (front side corner units).

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

What would you say the correct price per sqm2 should be and what do think it is at present?

[smedly]

Prices are inflated beyond imagination, and more concrete coffins are going up. The entire area has been declining in many ways for at least ten years now (yes, there are still some positives). I would never buy into this market. A big boom is coming, but it will make a crashing sound There are bargains outside of Thailand. Having said that, if you are filthy rich and do not care about what things cost, some of the top-end condo units are not that bad, especially those that face the water (front side corner units).

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

What would you say the correct price per sqm2 should be and what do think it is at present?

generally and I mean that - if someone is asking 3 million baht for a property it is probably worth half that, it doesn't matter what they paid for it - that's their problem for being so naive

this is a 3rd world country no matter what you want to believe and everything should be dirt cheap if note cheaper

The problem is there are scrupulous people here who pray on the uneducated, they rely on ignorance to rip people off and I would say from what I've seen over the years falangs are the worst at ripping falangs off

pay 3 million for a concrete box if you want or take a step back gather your thoughts and work out the obvious

[chris2004]

An interesting range of comments here. I paid 3 million for my "concrete coffin" over 6 years ago which luckily at the time equated to 50,000 GBP. Now i did gather my thoughts and compared that to what a 100 sq m apartment would cost on the English coast or Med, a bargain i thought. I have had 6 happy years here so far and hope to have many more. If i had not bought but rented or stayed in hotels around the world i'm sure i would have already spent close to that 50,000. Even if i sold at half the purchase price i would still come out ahead.

[LennyW]

Prices are inflated beyond imagination, and more concrete coffins are going up. The entire area has been declining in many ways for at least ten years now (yes, there are still some positives). I would never buy into this market. A big boom is coming, but it will make a crashing sound There are bargains outside of Thailand. Having said that, if you are filthy rich and do not care about what things cost, some of the top-end condo units are not that bad, especially those that face the water (front side corner units).

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

What would you say the correct price per sqm2 should be and what do think it is at present?

generally and I mean that - if someone is asking 3 million baht for a property it is probably worth half that, it doesn't matter what they paid for it - that's their problem for being so naive

this is a 3rd world country no matter what you want to believe and everything should be dirt cheap if note cheaper

The problem is there are scrupulous people here who pray on the uneducated, they rely on ignorance to rip people off and I would say from what I've seen over the years falangs are the worst at ripping falangs off

pay 3 million for a concrete box if you want or take a step back gather your thoughts and work out the obvious

No matter how many times you spout it - Thailand is not a third world country, if it was - you would not have the internet to play with!

[guzzi850m2]

I think if you want to retire here in Pattaya, go rent a condo first and see if you like it here(as other have said 100 times before me). You can rent all over the place and see which area suit you best.

When you found the best area for your needs then you can start carefully to check all the condos within that area, go inside the lobby, talk to people, check the general condition of building/garden/pool and so on.

If you are still keen on owning then you can make an offer you think is fair (not what the real estate salesguy & owner thinks) and take it from there.

I don't like renting, I fell it's not mine (which off course it isn't), I prefer something I can call mine (home), and I can decorate the place as I see fit. It you rent you don't really wants to make too much improvements as you obviously loose that investment when you leave.

I didn't buy my home as an investment but more like a nice place for my family to stay in and don't really care about what I can get for it on the current/future market.

[jbrain]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

You could ask that question to one of the many developers who started a project in 1997, which still stands around unfinished.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

You could ask that question to one of the many developers who started a project in 1997, which still stands around unfinished.

Logic and economic decision-making seem to have parted ways (e.g. is it logical to raise prices when you have no customers?). The large investors believe that hype will sell the units. Many people have bought into the real-estate road is paved with gold myth. They are terrified reality will surface. One has already posted on this thread--always showing up to make critical remarks about people who do see reality.

[JSixpack]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

You could ask that question to one of the many developers who started a project in 1997, which still stands around unfinished.

Many? Only a relative few, though of course those few will be pointed out with great gusto.

The crash of 1997 led to a one of the best-ever buying opportunity by foreigners and the gov't even relaxed the condo ownership rule for them.

Since then, the number of developments that HAVE been completed is astonishing. Hence our recurring CONDO GLUT threads.

In fact, a lot more condos have been sold than our simple "monger on the street" who knows only the naive "lights on at night" rule is aware of. Nor does a development have to sell ALL of its units to break even.

It's all been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseam here. Yawn.

Edited September 30, 2012 by JSixpack

[sotsira]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

You could ask that question to one of the many developers who started a project in 1997, which still stands around unfinished.

Logic and economic decision-making seem to have parted ways (e.g. is it logical to raise prices when you have no customers?). The large investors believe that hype will sell the units. Many people have bought into the real-estate road is paved with gold myth. They are terrified reality will surface. One has already posted on this thread--always showing up to make critical remarks about people who do see reality.

The reality for me is i bought five condos over the last 8yrs, i've sold 3 of them in the last 2yrs and made a 50% profit.

The other two are joined as a 1bedroom condo which i use to live in.

[smedly]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

You could ask that question to one of the many developers who started a project in 1997, which still stands around unfinished.

Logic and economic decision-making seem to have parted ways (e.g. is it logical to raise prices when you have no customers?). The large investors believe that hype will sell the units. Many people have bought into the real-estate road is paved with gold myth. They are terrified reality will surface. One has already posted on this thread--always showing up to make critical remarks about people who do see reality.

The reality for me is i bought five condos over the last 8yrs, i've sold 3 of them in the last 2yrs and made a 50% profit.

The other two are joined as a 1bedroom condo which i use to live in.

ok either you bought absolute bargains or spent a lot of money refurbishing or both or whoever bought them off you got seriously ripped off or you're bullshitting, I could believe as I nearly bought the unit I was renting when I first moved here 8 years ago for 600k baht - 13th floor 50sqm corner unit with wrap round blacony and windows which was for sale recently at 2m baht so it is possible

[PattayaPhom]

Unless you work in the industry or actually own a condo you are talking about something you know nothing about. Bar fly talk is cheap. If you aint got the money to purchase dont be jealous of those that have. Go have another Archa

[jbrain]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

You could ask that question to one of the many developers who started a project in 1997, which still stands around unfinished.

Many? Only a relative few, though of course those few will be pointed out with great gusto.

The crash of 1997 led to a one of the best-ever buying opportunity by foreigners and the gov't even relaxed the condo ownership rule for them.

Since then, the number of developments that HAVE been completed is astonishing. Hence our recurring CONDO GLUT threads.

In fact, a lot more condos have been sold than our simple "monger on the street" who knows only the naive "lights on at night" rule is aware of. Nor does a development have to sell ALL of its units to break even.

It's all been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseam here. Yawn.

I'm not talking about Pattaya but Thailand in general.Take a drive to Pattaya and have look left and right on the way, and you will see how many unfinished condo buildings are still there left over from 15 years ago, and we are talking about Thousands of rooms.

Another example is when you take the elevated highway Chonburi- Bangkok,at the first curve take a look to your right.There is a complete city with a few hundred houses and two tower buildings, I guess 50 floors high.All completely finished 15 years ago, never 1 house or condo occupied.

You probably also are aware of the Suan Sawarn and The Park threads,which I doubt very much are ever gonne finish.Believe me, the reason they have problems is not because they have more buyers than units available.That is only two, but I could name you at least 11 direct out of my head that are in the same situation, but from which talking about on this forum is not allowed.

Edited September 30, 2012 by jbrain

[londoedan]

Unless you work in the industry or actually own a condo you are talking about something you know nothing about. Bar fly talk is cheap. If you aint got the money to purchase dont be jealous of those that have. Go have another Archa

Bit harsh ! There's lots of people read these RE threads, that are perhaps considering retirement, have some money in the bank, and are perhaps renting and thinking about buying in the next year or 2.

And don't drink Archa

Edited September 30, 2012 by londoedan

[Awohalitsiktoli]

One thing that people should realize is that there are exceptions. Some people did and are making money. The problem with exceptions is that they do not make a rule. Eventually the hype that is keeping the "Titanic" afloat will end. I am amazed at the amount of hype--especially in places like Central Festival Mall and driving up and down Sukhumvit. There is a global economic reality that even Amazing Thailand cannot escape from.

[BKKBobby]

As long as someone is buying cause they like to be in a particular city, retire, or have a longterm summer/holiday getaway place, whatever... Then I dont think its super-important if its overpriced or not, as long as it doesnt affect your personal economy, life in a big way. Im going to buy a condo in Bangkok sometime in the future, within in the next 2 years I guess, im going to look and look until I find a gem that goes for a nice baht/sqm price. But still, me buying doesnt really have so much to do with if BKK is overpriced or not, I will buy want I afford, and it is a indirect investment, cause im not thinking about dividends, selling for a higher price etc. Of course the condo might depreciate in value, but if you dont accept that risk - as in reality you would never buy - you are that type of person that havnt made a single baht the last half century during stock or property booms just sitting on the sideline and wasting time. For me, time is more valuable than theoretically lose 10-15% of the property price after a minimum of 10 years. Its nice to dont have to pay exhorbitant rents for a condo on sukhumvit, instead I intend to have my own.

Edited September 30, 2012 by BKKBobby

[smedly]

Unless you work in the industry or actually own a condo you are talking about something you know nothing about. Bar fly talk is cheap. If you aint got the money to purchase dont be jealous of those that have. Go have another Archa

well that just tells me how naive you are mate, one group of people I will definately not talk too are the crooked realters in pattaya for advice unless I know them very personally - a couple I do who have confirmed everything I have shared here, property dealers are like car dealers they are in the business of taking as much money from you as possible and in a country were regulation is none existent great care should be taken at all times, there are some shocking stories I could share here but with a little research in these forums you will not be long in getting a horrific education especially about realters and lawyers

There is absolutly no harm in people asking for advice (like the OP) on here - the message is "be careful" and understand that the property business here is vastly different than in the west.

[JSixpack]

I'm not talking about Pattaya but Thailand in general.

But, you see, WE aren't, so now you've shifted the subject. This is a Pattaya forum and we're just talking about Pattaya. It's not all about YOU.

Take a drive to Pattaya and have look left and right on the way, and you will see how many unfinished condo buildings are still there left over from 15 years ago, and we are talking about Thousands of rooms.

No, don't see 'em. Pics, please.

Another example is when you take the elevated highway Chonburi- Bangkok,at the first curve take a look to your right.There is a complete city with a few hundred houses and two tower buildings, I guess 50 floors high.All completely finished 15 years ago, never 1 house or condo occupied.

Well, that was obviously stupid to build all that out in such an undesirable location. It was suitable neither for home nor holiday. It was a time when financial circumstances (no need for details) permitted such excess by a stupid developer w/ more money than brains.

What you don't see is any new such developments in those locations. The lesson was learned. Pattaya, however, is in a whole different situation. Even so, under-capitalized developers will sometimes try a project they can't complete. They are, as I noted, a small minority dwarfed by the astonishing number of projects that have been completed--quite successfully. Northpoint is but one example.

Edited September 30, 2012 by JSixpack

[jbrain]

I'm not talking about Pattaya but Thailand in general.

But, you see, WE aren't, so now you've shifted the subject. This is a Pattaya forum and we're just talking about Pattaya. It's not all about YOU.

Take a drive to Pattaya and have look left and right on the way, and you will see how many unfinished condo buildings are still there left over from 15 years ago, and we are talking about Thousands of rooms.

No, don't see 'em. Pics, please.

Another example is when you take the elevated highway Chonburi- Bangkok,at the first curve take a look to your right.There is a complete city with a few hundred houses and two tower buildings, I guess 50 floors high.All completely finished 15 years ago, never 1 house or condo occupied.

Well, that was obviously stupid to build all that out in such an undesirable location. It was suitable neither for home nor holiday. It was a time when financial circumstances (no need for details) permitted such excess by a stupid developer w/ more money than brains.

What you don't see is any new such developments in those locations. The lesson was learned. Pattaya, however, is in a whole different situation. Even so, under-capitalized developers will sometimes try a project they can't complete. They are, as I noted, a small minority dwarfed by the astonishing number of projects that have been completed--quite successfully. Northpoint is but one example.

My mistake, I was supposed to say drive to Bangkok instead of Pattaya,and please stop being so arrogant asking for pictures.Everybody who has stayed here for a while knows that they are there.Even in the middle of bangkok center there are a few.

And regarding the empty city near the elevated highway, if you knew what you were talking about you should not call that a bad location, since it borders at that hughe river,don't know the name, and has it's own marina.Hilton had leased both towers at that time, untill the ceiling fell to the floor for developers in Thailand.

If Northpoint is so successful, then why it is still promoted at Big C at the moment.I would think that a successful project would have sold out after so many years.

Edited September 30, 2012 by jbrain

[LennyW]

And regarding the empty city near the elevated highway, if you knew what you were talking about you should not call that a bad location, since it borders at that hughe river,don't know the name, and has it's own marina.Hilton had leased both towers at that time, untill the ceiling fell to the floor for developers in Thailand.

If Northpoint is so successful, then why it is still promoted at Big C at the moment.I would think that a successful project would have sold out after so many years.

Hell yeah - living near a big river on the outskirts of BKK would be awesome!!!! Especially now!!

[Awohalitsiktoli]

It is obvious that someone who is posting on this thread has a very personal interest in maintaining the hype--and you are not that person We all know who that person is. That person always attacks any free-thinking invidual who says anything that is inconsistent with the "fantasy" that the real-estate crowd is spinning.

[jbrain]

And regarding the empty city near the elevated highway, if you knew what you were talking about you should not call that a bad location, since it borders at that hughe river,don't know the name, and has it's own marina.Hilton had leased both towers at that time, untill the ceiling fell to the floor for developers in Thailand.

If Northpoint is so successful, then why it is still promoted at Big C at the moment.I would think that a successful project would have sold out after so many years.

Hell yeah - living near a big river on the outskirts of BKK would be awesome!!!! Especially now!!

You must be smarter than Hilton.Ever considered what a fool you make of yourself with this comment?

Chonburi by the way is not the outskirts of Bangkok.

Edited September 30, 2012 by jbrain

[PattayaPhom]

Unless you work in the industry or actually own a condo you are talking about something you know nothing about. Bar fly talk is cheap. If you aint got the money to purchase dont be jealous of those that have. Go have another Archa

Bit harsh ! There's lots of people read these RE threads, that are perhaps considering retirement, have some money in the bank, and are perhaps renting and thinking about buying in the next year or 2.

And don't drink Archa

Thats correct, and they come on websites like this for information, yet are continually bombarded with negative comments from those that wish to buy but have missed the boat or those that just havnt got the money are are so jealous of others want to spout off something they heard about in the bars they go to. Lets get real, these new developments of 20 odd sqm are never really going to make any profit, too hard to rent and very little if any capitol gain. However, established condos in a good location will continue to be popular with both Thais and foreigners, making profit through tenancy and also large capitol gains. I want to purchase in Na Jomtien and have my name at the JP office in 3 condos for over 18 months yet nothing in Thai or foreigner name has become available. The OP should visit, rent and then purchase if he decides to retire here, and purchase a unit that will always be popular.

Edited September 30, 2012 by PattayaPhom